Forums > Social Discussion > animal rights

Posted: 24th Mar 2007
R.S.P.C.A, "freedom produce" products have been exposed on telly as being no better than intencive farming methods

Posted: 24th Mar 2007
Like Tea Fairy says, you often have to look a bit below the surface- you definitly can't trust labels all the time.

A little research into 'free-range' eggs, for a personal example, led me to discover that 'de-beaking' is actually more common in 'free-range' egg production than in battery farming.

Luckily. there's a nearby ethical health shop which only gets its eggs from a farm where de-beaking isn't used, so I could direct my cash towards this source, rather than financing farms who did use de-beaking.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Posted: 24th Mar 2007
I'm kind-of passionate about morals and ethics and the way I see it, so please (all who read and/or participate) ... [the obvious]

... try to keep it as short as possible

Rainbowgirl, I usually pass on blocks of words like the one you put there, but I did read yours and it resonates well in me... I'm now sitting here, try to sort a thousand thoughts, not exactly knowing how to put this across, without sounding childish, highly ideological, or as living in a pipe dream, or appearing offensive...

IMHO living and dying is a natural process. Basically there is nothing wrong with it and if "murder for food" was not natural, why then did nature put it this way? One depends on the other, one exists because of the other, it's the two sides of the same coin.

The food chain is setting some kind of hierarchy, hence being on the tippy top doesn't equal superiority. With great powers, great responsibility arises, too.

Now I do not equal killing an animal or a plant for food, I know that it feels different to cut a tree, or to behead a cow (done the former, am not eager to try the latter). Both is "taking lives", but it is NOT the same.

This may only be like that because I rarely cuddled with my Ficus Benjamin, or threw a stick for my Papyrus and waited for him to return it... get my point? It definitely is, because I can relate to animals more than I can relate to plants, it's because I do feel empathy and compassion, because I not just imagine, but KNOW that animals do share similar, if not the same feelings like I do.

I'm certain that plants do have feelings and do communicate, etc - but I simply can't relate to them in the same way as I do with animals. Is that "sick"?

Is it "(*fill in appropriate term*) that I make a distinction even between animals? That I can relate more to - say - a kitten, than to a tickfly? My mind is wired like that and knowing this I also understand and have compassion for - say - farmers, who cannot relate to cows, like I can relate to kittens.

On top of this: we're living in a society - and we have to, otherwise the chances of dying are higher than the ones of surviving - and we depend upon each other (in Europe more than in a warm climate, where banana, pineapple and coconut just grow everywhere).

And society - in my understanding - should work in a way where I do not necessarily HAVE to waste many thoughts upon where this or that (food) comes from or how it was produced.

As - for example - the organizer of a party doesn't have to worry about my safety level when doing a show, or whether or not I'm a stinky environmental pig, spilling kero all over the place and nature when practising. He should simply be able to relax into it and have his trust rewarded, not having to inform himself about FireSafety! online and check my handles, my chain, the swivels, whether I have a proper container.... blablabla.

To me saying something like "meat eaters (generally) are like this or that", is the same as saying: "Firedancers (generally) are like this or that" - and I could think of a lot. It is valid up to a certain point and after that it simply is defamatory.

But enough of that side-thrusting

To the Tea Fairy it's "fun" to inform herself about food and what's inside, and where does it come from. To me it is not

I admire it, if you, Stout and others go into the shop and make it clear and sound that you do care about the origins of your food. I think it's necessary and setting a good example. But I do think this only because I know that there is a lot of unspeakable crap happening, originating from greed and cold hearts - it shouldn't have to be this way.

Now I do KNOW that there is a lot of unspeakable crap happening IN EVERY FIELD - in the jewelry industry, in the wood-chipping industry, in the clothing industry, in governments... name it yourself. [sic]

Bottom line: I think that animals (like plants and humans) do HAVE rights (naturally) and it's simply us, depriving them. We are choosing the level of "how much".

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 26th Mar 2007
Food.... no. I've been a veggie eater all my life and do not like meat.

Medicine, yes. If testing drugs on animals brings us closer to drugs that will eliminate diseases or cancers or whatever else, then thats okay.

Cosmetics, no. If we create a hair dye or shampoo or whatever that we are too afraid to try on humans first, then maybe we shouldnt be using it at all **shrugs**

Posted: 27th Mar 2007
ok, maybe 'fun' was the wrong word! I too would love it if someone else could check all this stuff for me and give me guaranteed reassurance that the animals I eat were not treated with unessesary cruelty. But that's not how the world is right now... to a lot of people this stuff doesn't matter, but it matters to me personally, so I need to do it myself until things change.

Dave: Eggs are one of the tricky ones! I don't like the beak clipping but then I was taken to a horrible battery farm when I was about 5 and I had nightmares about those hens for weeks! Luckily I can usually get my eggs from neighbors and aquaintances who keep chickens, it's quite nice being able to see the hens and say thanks to them personally for the eggs.

Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

Posted: 28th Mar 2007
Well I love a good bacon roll but I don't like animal testing at all. i believe that we should be testing on rapists and murderers oh and not forgetting paedos. At least that would be a good punishment for them, instead of giving them sky TV . I mean I don't even have Sky TV.

ANIMALS HAVE FEELINGS TOO.

I fell down a hill once, got up then fell down it again.

Posted: 28th Mar 2007
food: no
cosmetics: no
drug/medical: "rapists and murderers oh and not forgetting paedos"

Posted: 26th Apr 2007

 Written by: sagetree


food: no
cosmetics: no
drug/medical: "rapists and murderers oh and not forgetting paedos"

Humans make much better test subjects than any animal would for research and production of a product for humans. Too bad it is unconstitutional
Rapists and pedophiles will never get capitol punishment tho, no matter how many ppl will support that ruling......
Plus we have bigger veins and organs for more thorough testing. We should include bums in this demographic as well.

Posted: 26th Apr 2007
My father is an employee of the Food and Drug Administration. He is a research scientist primarily concerned with drugs that damage the liver. He uses lab animals on a regular basis and frequently comes home with stories about the number of meetings and training sessions he has to attend on the propper treatment of laboratory animals. So I have no concerns about drug testing performed on animals. Food and cosmetics, I know little about and so I am lothe to make an ill informed opinion.

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

Posted: 28th Apr 2007

 Written by: The Tea Fairy


Well, personally, I feel responsible to do what I reasonably can to ensure that what I eat was not subjected to what I consider to be unnecessary cruelty. In practice this isn't always easy - I read a lot of packaging, keep an eye on the media and use the net to find out about the standards that must be met by free-range/organic products (and where possible which farms and suppliers adhere to these). I use local markets and butchers and ask lots of questions about where my food comes from. I don't see any reason why other consumers cannot also do this if they feel inclined to, it's quite satisfying to really engage with what you eat.

It would be nice if animal rights in the farming and food industry were properly enforced by the government, but so much of modern farming is focused on mass production to produce a cheap commodity. A lot of the time I don't really even trust the labelling on meat concerning whether it's 'free-range' or not, at least without asking questions concerning where the supply comes from.

Totally agree with you there!! I try to buy free range when ever I can, altho I've learnt from one mistake I made. I bought some chicken from Tesco's few weeks back, The label said 'chickens kept in spacious barns and are able to freeley run about outside'. It wasn't until I got the chicken home that I noticed marks on its legs (where its knees would have been)..they were urine Marks. I watched a documentary on Barn Chickens onceand when they're so cooped up, the floor gets soaked in urine and the chickens can't stand up for very long due to leg ache/urine inhallation...so they kneel in there own urine and poo...and as a result, they end up with Burns.
Yeah, so blatantly this label was lying...
Oh...and just for the record, who ever wrote the post having a go at Conservationist hippies (I read but never quoted)...I'm a hippy...I've been told many a time (can't think why )and I'm into conservation. Infact I'm going to college to study Animal Management so I can do just that. I am by no means a person who goes out trying to save cows. I eat Cows...but I don't eat Gorillas, or Tigers, or whales, because they are endangered. I'm not an idiot, and I certainly don't appreciate being stereo typed or tar'd with the same brush as someone who has blatantly annoyed you...
I say this with the best of love...

Are you a robot...or an alien?

Posted: 30th Apr 2007
Food- yes
cosmetics-no
medical-no

I'm not going to go into why, thats just my personal opinion on the subject in a nutshell.

"I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day,and if you can source your own life from its presence.." - Oriah Mountain Dreamer