Forums > Social Discussion > 2008 Olympics in Bejing ... ???
Login/Join to ParticipateStargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
In the wake of the Tibetan unrest it might be obvious that it's absurd to hold Olympic Games in China.
Tibetan Women movement criticising the move to hold Olympic Games in Bejing
Olympic spirit raped and its principles ignored? Guess we had the same discussion for the 1980 games in the USSR and 1936 in Berlin... Does anything really change ever?
[ed]This has been the OP so far. I would like to update the OP, as it is hard to follow the entire discussion:
- Chinas bid to become host to the Olympic games has been granted as they initially promised to work on their human rights record. This "work" unfortunately has not produced significant results
-- Acc. to Olympic watch, 7 Human rights organizations urge IOC president Rogge to speak out to China about human rights abuses
-- Human Rights Watch Organization on Chinese human rights violations
I do side OWD when he states that the position of China needs to be taken into consideration if a bilateral discussion is to take place.
Hence I can't find China to be open to any kind of discussion on their politics. Just recently the Chinese PM has ruled out the Chinese government to resume talks on the status of Tibet with the Dalai Llama until he denounces the Tibetan struggle for independence. I mean there is not much left to talk about but the weather, IF he does.
Just very recently China has revived it's claim on 90.000 sqkms of Indian territory
Personally it appears as if China is never satisfied with what it got.
It still claims Taiwan to be part of the mainland, even though it's people greatly oppose this notion. They do live in constant fear of Chinese aggression. How useful is a claim on territory, if the people living there are completely opposing it?
China says that it "liberated" the Tibetan peasants, but who gave China the right to just stay there? If the intent was to "liberate", IMO it should not have send Chinese there to settle.
Some claim that the fate of Tibetans prior to the Chinese occupation has been very similar to those of "slaves" (I will post a link to the article as soon as I got it) - but even IF this would be the case, this doesn't mean that they will slip back into slavery, once independence is granted.
IMO Tibetans have the right to govern themselves. They seem to be greatly unhappy with Chinese rule and occupation, talks about autonomy and independence should be resumed.
China has got a very bad human rights record and there is a great number of Chinese living outside of their country because they are facing severe oppression in their motherland.
--- Only the current attention drawn back to the policies of the Chinese government seem to justify the decision to hold Olympics there.
Personally I just find it extremely unfair that these politics are carried out on the backs of athletes who train a long time to compete for the Games and now find themselves in a great conflict between ambition and ethics...
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1208698867)
In the wake of the Tibetan unrest it might be obvious that it's absurd to hold Olympic Games in China.
Written by : Wiki
Some international groups attempted to pressure the IOC to reject Beijing's bid in protest of the state of human rights in the People's Republic of China. One Chinese dissident who expressed similar sentiments was arrested and sentenced to two years in prison for calling on the IOC to do just that at the same time that IOC inspectors were touring the city. Amnesty International expressed concern in 2006 regarding the Olympic Games to be held in China in 2008, likewise expressing concerns over the human rights situation. The second principle in the Fundamental Principles of Olympism, Olympic Charter states that The goal of Olympism is to place sport at the service of the harmonious development of man, with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity. Amnesty International considers the policies and practices of the People's Republic as failing to meet that principle, and urged the IOC to press China to immediately enact human rights reform.
Tibetan Women movement criticising the move to hold Olympic Games in Bejing
Written by : TWA
The Olympic Charter's Fundamental Principles
1. Modern Olympism was conceived by Pierre de Coubertin, on whose initiative the International Athletic Congress of Paris was held in June 1894. The International Olympic Committee (IOC) consituted itself on 23rd June 1894. In August 1994, the XII Congress, Centennial Olympic Congress, which was entitled "Congress of Unity", was held in Paris.
2. Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy found in effort, the educational value of good example and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles.
3. The goal of Olympism is to place everywhere sport at the service of the harmonious development of man, with a view to encouraging the establishment of a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity. To this effect, the Olympic Movement engages, alone or in cooperation with other organizations and within the limits of its means, in actions to promote peace.
4. The Olympic Movement, led by the IOC, stems from modern Olympism.
5. Under the supreme Authority of the IOC, the Olympic Movement encompasses organizations, athletes and other persons who agree to be guided by the Olympic Charter. The criterion for belonging to the Olympic Movement is recognition by the IOC. The organization and management of sport must be controlled by the independent sport organizations recognized as such.
6. The goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to building a peaceful and better world by educating youth through sport practised without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play.
7. The activity of the Olympic movement, symbolized by five interlaced rings, is universal and permanent. It covers the five continents. It reaches its peak with the bringing together of athletes of the world at the great sports festival, the Olympic Games.
8. The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practising sport in accordance with his or her needs.
9. The Olympic Charter is the codification of the Fundamental Principles, Rules and Bye-laws adopted by the IOC. It governs the organization and operation of the Olympic Movement and stipulates the conditions for the celebration of the Olympic Games.
Olympic spirit raped and its principles ignored? Guess we had the same discussion for the 1980 games in the USSR and 1936 in Berlin... Does anything really change ever?
[ed]This has been the OP so far. I would like to update the OP, as it is hard to follow the entire discussion:
- Chinas bid to become host to the Olympic games has been granted as they initially promised to work on their human rights record. This "work" unfortunately has not produced significant results
-- Acc. to Olympic watch, 7 Human rights organizations urge IOC president Rogge to speak out to China about human rights abuses
-- Human Rights Watch Organization on Chinese human rights violations
I do side OWD when he states that the position of China needs to be taken into consideration if a bilateral discussion is to take place.
Hence I can't find China to be open to any kind of discussion on their politics. Just recently the Chinese PM has ruled out the Chinese government to resume talks on the status of Tibet with the Dalai Llama until he denounces the Tibetan struggle for independence. I mean there is not much left to talk about but the weather, IF he does.
Just very recently China has revived it's claim on 90.000 sqkms of Indian territory
Written by : globalsecurity.org
The Indian frontier state of Arunachal Pradesh Tuesday reacted strongly to China's claims of the region being a "disputed area", officials told IRNA Tuesday.
China's envoy to New Delhi, Sun Yuxi, Friday raked up a controversy ahead of the landmark visit by Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao saying the northeastern state of Arunachal Pradesh was still "a disputed area" between India and China.
"China's claims and the statement made by its ambassador to India are erroneous to say the least.
There is no dispute whatsoever and Arunachal Pradesh is very much an integral part of India," Arunachal Pradesh Home Minister Jarbom Gamlin said.
Beijing in 2003 gave up its territorial claim over the Indian state of Sikkim but was still holding on to its age-old stand that a vast stretch of Arunachal Pradesh belongs to China.
"We have lodged a formal protest with the Indian Foreign Ministry over the Chinese ambassador's statement," Gamlin said.
"The people of Arunachal Pradesh do whatever is required to protect and preserve its territorial integrity."
The mountainous state of Arunachal Pradesh shares a 1,030-km (650-mile) unfenced border with China.
The China-India border along Arunachal Pradesh is separated by the McMahon Line, an imaginary border which is now known as the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
India and China fought a bitter border war in 1962, with Chinese troops advancing deep into Arunachal Pradesh and inflicting heavy casualties on federal troops.
The border dispute with China was inherited by India from British colonial rulers, who hosted a 1914 conference with the Tibetan and Chinese governments that set the border in what is now Arunachal Pradesh.
China has never recognized the 1914 boundary, known as the McMahon Line, and claims 90,000 square kilometers (34,750 square miles) -- nearly all -- of Arunachal Pradesh.
India also accuses China of occupying 8,000 square kilometers (14,670 square miles) in Kashmir.
Personally it appears as if China is never satisfied with what it got.
It still claims Taiwan to be part of the mainland, even though it's people greatly oppose this notion. They do live in constant fear of Chinese aggression. How useful is a claim on territory, if the people living there are completely opposing it?
China says that it "liberated" the Tibetan peasants, but who gave China the right to just stay there? If the intent was to "liberate", IMO it should not have send Chinese there to settle.
Some claim that the fate of Tibetans prior to the Chinese occupation has been very similar to those of "slaves" (I will post a link to the article as soon as I got it) - but even IF this would be the case, this doesn't mean that they will slip back into slavery, once independence is granted.
IMO Tibetans have the right to govern themselves. They seem to be greatly unhappy with Chinese rule and occupation, talks about autonomy and independence should be resumed.
China has got a very bad human rights record and there is a great number of Chinese living outside of their country because they are facing severe oppression in their motherland.
--- Only the current attention drawn back to the policies of the Chinese government seem to justify the decision to hold Olympics there.
Personally I just find it extremely unfair that these politics are carried out on the backs of athletes who train a long time to compete for the Games and now find themselves in a great conflict between ambition and ethics...
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1208698867)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
BRONZE Member
old hand
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Location: Oregon, USA
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
I don't think the '36 olympics showed any "support" for the Nazi party. Hitler made a distinct effort not to involve himself in the ceremonies (although I believe he was present). The Olympics should have nothing to do with the country it is hosted in. Good or bad. The Olympics should be about the Olympics. Do you disagree?
As for the Chinese regime being nasty, I won't argue with you on that one. Nor am I a fan of cheap copied products or the exportation of our jobs. I don't like being reliant on other people. That said there is a time and a place for everything, going after the Olympics as a round-about way of going after China's policies is a low blow, and just a cheap tactic to get the cause in the media. As far as I'm concerned they have little to do with each other, and it just cheapens your efforts for an otherwise completely righteous cause. It's similar to how the Animal Liberation Front doesn't exactly make valid animal rights viewpoints look any better.
I don't think the '36 olympics showed any "support" for the Nazi party. Hitler made a distinct effort not to involve himself in the ceremonies (although I believe he was present). The Olympics should have nothing to do with the country it is hosted in. Good or bad. The Olympics should be about the Olympics. Do you disagree?
As for the Chinese regime being nasty, I won't argue with you on that one. Nor am I a fan of cheap copied products or the exportation of our jobs. I don't like being reliant on other people. That said there is a time and a place for everything, going after the Olympics as a round-about way of going after China's policies is a low blow, and just a cheap tactic to get the cause in the media. As far as I'm concerned they have little to do with each other, and it just cheapens your efforts for an otherwise completely righteous cause. It's similar to how the Animal Liberation Front doesn't exactly make valid animal rights viewpoints look any better.
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Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Thanks for that thought food, Lurch.
I reckon the Olympics are one way to put it back into the consciousness of the public.
The Olympics have certain principles and values - holding them in China (and supporting them) show how corrupted we (have) become these days.
What are the Olympics about in your opinion?
Thanks for that thought food, Lurch.
I reckon the Olympics are one way to put it back into the consciousness of the public.
The Olympics have certain principles and values - holding them in China (and supporting them) show how corrupted we (have) become these days.
What are the Olympics about in your opinion?
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Something I was thinking about the other day:
I don't think any country has boycotted an Olympic games since sport went professional. And by professional I mean over-the-table professional, not under like it was for many years. The boycotts during the 70s due to the cold war were still during the amateur era.
I don't know where I'm going with this, other than to put that little thought in a relevant discussion.
Something I was thinking about the other day:
I don't think any country has boycotted an Olympic games since sport went professional. And by professional I mean over-the-table professional, not under like it was for many years. The boycotts during the 70s due to the cold war were still during the amateur era.
I don't know where I'm going with this, other than to put that little thought in a relevant discussion.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
I feel that it's hard for any athlete to 'boycott the games' - in his career its almost impossible. 4 years is a long time in professional sport and I'm not 'demanding'
not to recognize the(ir) efforts...
Lurch, whatever Hitler did back then (to me) is irrelevant. The (support of the) games were showing the German people: Look here, the world is recognizing our regime and was used as a huge political propaganda....
But we can set a sign every one by himself. Guess that would show more involvement than just signing (online) petitions
I feel that it's hard for any athlete to 'boycott the games' - in his career its almost impossible. 4 years is a long time in professional sport and I'm not 'demanding'
not to recognize the(ir) efforts...Lurch, whatever Hitler did back then (to me) is irrelevant. The (support of the) games were showing the German people: Look here, the world is recognizing our regime and was used as a huge political propaganda....
But we can set a sign every one by himself. Guess that would show more involvement than just signing (online) petitions
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
There is no doubt that the Olympics are highly commercialized now and I do have a bit of a problem with that. I like the idea of amateur athletes being the ones competing for the honor and pride of their country, with the right training and enough money and technology backing you most people could probably become olympic level athletes, but most people don't have that sort of dedication or drive either.
Ignoring the obvious commercial bias and pure profit that the committee and various companies reap from the event, to *me* at least the Olympics should still be a time of peace, where even the most ardent of enemies can put that aside to admit that we are all fundamentally the same, and compete purely for the sake of competition and good spirit. Sportmanship has been lacking (although it's making a comeback it seems. It teaches morals and etiquette, while 'running away' or simply avoiding your enemies may be one valid tactic, connecting with them and understanding them will be far more beneficial in the end. It's far better to have an enemy that respects you, than one of pure hatred.
So going back to the boycott, it seems like a very childish schoolyard grudge. 'I don't like you so I'm not going to play with you' type of response to something that should deserve a far more mature approach.
All that said, you are away that by in large the Olympics tends to bankrupt and cause massive economic havoc in the host cities after they are over. It's not cheap to put on and the profit to be made *after* is minimal.
There is no doubt that the Olympics are highly commercialized now and I do have a bit of a problem with that. I like the idea of amateur athletes being the ones competing for the honor and pride of their country, with the right training and enough money and technology backing you most people could probably become olympic level athletes, but most people don't have that sort of dedication or drive either.
Ignoring the obvious commercial bias and pure profit that the committee and various companies reap from the event, to *me* at least the Olympics should still be a time of peace, where even the most ardent of enemies can put that aside to admit that we are all fundamentally the same, and compete purely for the sake of competition and good spirit. Sportmanship has been lacking (although it's making a comeback it seems. It teaches morals and etiquette, while 'running away' or simply avoiding your enemies may be one valid tactic, connecting with them and understanding them will be far more beneficial in the end. It's far better to have an enemy that respects you, than one of pure hatred.
So going back to the boycott, it seems like a very childish schoolyard grudge. 'I don't like you so I'm not going to play with you' type of response to something that should deserve a far more mature approach.
All that said, you are away that by in large the Olympics tends to bankrupt and cause massive economic havoc in the host cities after they are over. It's not cheap to put on and the profit to be made *after* is minimal.
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Stargazer
6,650 posts
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Posted:
Lurch, this is not about "liking" or "disliking"...
This is about genocide and its "silent support".
These days China is even intervening with the German government "disapproving" of government officials meeting with him. They were putting forward that the Dalai Lama should be denied entry to Germany...
Lurch, this is not about "liking" or "disliking"...
This is about genocide and its "silent support".
These days China is even intervening with the German government "disapproving" of government officials meeting with him. They were putting forward that the Dalai Lama should be denied entry to Germany...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
How is the Olympics any sort of 'silent support' to China? I guess that's the part I'm missing.
The locations in the past, at least as far as I know, have been more about variety, and having the economic structure to actually be able to pull off an event as large as this. It has nothing to do with the regime, it has nothing to do with their political influences or policies. What do they gain by having the Olympics? Do you think everyone is going to say 'gee maybe they aren't so bad, they sure know how to make a swimming pool!'?
If you want to make a statement send as many people of Tibetan descent to the Olympics as you can find. The point has already been brought to the public eye, what good does boycotting the Olympics, or "protesting" the torch run do at this point? The people trying to grab the torch from the runners just looked like a bunch of jackasses to me. That's a very childish "protest"
How is the Olympics any sort of 'silent support' to China? I guess that's the part I'm missing.
The locations in the past, at least as far as I know, have been more about variety, and having the economic structure to actually be able to pull off an event as large as this. It has nothing to do with the regime, it has nothing to do with their political influences or policies. What do they gain by having the Olympics? Do you think everyone is going to say 'gee maybe they aren't so bad, they sure know how to make a swimming pool!'?
If you want to make a statement send as many people of Tibetan descent to the Olympics as you can find. The point has already been brought to the public eye, what good does boycotting the Olympics, or "protesting" the torch run do at this point? The people trying to grab the torch from the runners just looked like a bunch of jackasses to me. That's a very childish "protest"
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BRONZE Member
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13,215 posts
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Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
I don't think "I don't like you so I'm not going to play with you" is childish. Well, maybe in those words it is!
But if that wasn't the case with adults, why do we still hang out with our friends and people we like as oppose to dislike?
I don't think "I don't like you so I'm not going to play with you" is childish. Well, maybe in those words it is!
But if that wasn't the case with adults, why do we still hang out with our friends and people we like as oppose to dislike?
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
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Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Lurch, perhaps the Tibetans are just following the example set by the USA who led the boycott of the 1980 Moscow Olympics. Which, by your reckoning, was just a childish protest against the Soviet Union.
Lurch, perhaps the Tibetans are just following the example set by the USA who led the boycott of the 1980 Moscow Olympics. Which, by your reckoning, was just a childish protest against the Soviet Union.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Stargazer
6,650 posts
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Posted:
Lurch, thanks for participation. I guess there is a high number of people who side your view - or at least your questions: What is a boycott good for anyway? and Why are people upset that China is hosting the games?
The principles of the Olympic spirit is basically about peace and the peaceful competition of equal human beings in and through sports... to me it is further about basic human rights.
The US and the UN all together have boycotted sports events in countries for political reasons before.Maybe not the best example is the order to Bobby Fisher NOT to attend the chess championships in Serbia-Montenegro during the conflict in the former Yugoslav countries. Bobby Fisher has been exiled from the US until his recent death because he attended (and won) the championship anyway.
Another example would be the US led boycott of the 1980 Olympic Games in Moscow due to the Russian invasion in Afghanistan at this time. (Yes I'm now again referring to a Wiki article because I have too little time to research into other sources... )
All in all 62 countries joined the boycott back then and...
Please also note that Afghanistan was invaded in 1979, a year ahead of the Games and after L.A. lost it's bid to Moscow. BTW Ironically it has been the US who invaded Afghanistan for pretty much the same reasons some time later... politics [sigh].
So especially for the US (and other countries) the boycott of sportive events due to political reasons is not uncommon.
In the case of China it is a little more complicated though:
You are raising a valid point (and OWD has also done so previously in another thread that is roughly about a similar topic): To engage in a peaceful and constructive dialogue it is necessary to understand the 'opponents' arguments.
Interestingly the CIA has (allegedly) supported the Tibetan peoples continuous uprising against Chinese occupation between the 50s and 70s.
The fundamental question in all this is:
Is the Chinese occupation of Tibet in accordance to international law? I would say the answer to this is NO.
IF we would accept that one country can invade and occupy another country solely on the grounds that "the (Tibetan) Government did almost nothing to improve the (Tibetans') material and political standard of life during its rule (from 1913–59)" would we not completely corrupt international law?
Leading to the next question:
Is the Chinese regime conducting human rights abuses in Tibet? I would say the answer to this is YES - and not only in Tibet, but all over China... (please remember: 87.000 riots in China 2007 alone).
Even if the Tibetans were liberated by China back then (in 1949) it seems to be apparent that they seek autonomy (or independence) from China today.
All this (to me) already indicates that is preposterous to hold Olympic Games in China, a country oppressed by a military junta. A junta that still threatens its neighbouring countries (such as Taiwan, India and Russia) with nuclear weapons and supports a civil war in Africa.
The only reason why they get away with it is their economical power.
I'm not even getting into the fact of a "communist" regime producing billionaires - that pretty much is their own prerogative.
But certainly I would not support this regime by holding a internationally (highly) recognized event in its capital city... How is it a 'silent support'? You're asking... I can't explain to you why water (to me) feels wet...
Lurch, thanks for participation. I guess there is a high number of people who side your view - or at least your questions: What is a boycott good for anyway? and Why are people upset that China is hosting the games?
The principles of the Olympic spirit is basically about peace and the peaceful competition of equal human beings in and through sports... to me it is further about basic human rights.
The US and the UN all together have boycotted sports events in countries for political reasons before.Maybe not the best example is the order to Bobby Fisher NOT to attend the chess championships in Serbia-Montenegro during the conflict in the former Yugoslav countries. Bobby Fisher has been exiled from the US until his recent death because he attended (and won) the championship anyway.
Another example would be the US led boycott of the 1980 Olympic Games in Moscow due to the Russian invasion in Afghanistan at this time. (Yes I'm now again referring to a Wiki article because I have too little time to research into other sources...
)Written by : Wiki
Though the Games have aimed to be an arena free of politics, the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan spurred United States President Jimmy Carter to issue an ultimatum that the United States would boycott the Moscow Olympics if Soviet troops had not withdrawn from the country by 12:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time on February 20, 1980; the official announcement confirming the boycott was made on March 21.
All in all 62 countries joined the boycott back then and...
Written by : Wiki
Notably, the United Kingdom, France, and Greece supported the boycott but allowed their athletes to participate if they wished (the U.S. did not).
Please also note that Afghanistan was invaded in 1979, a year ahead of the Games and after L.A. lost it's bid to Moscow. BTW Ironically it has been the US who invaded Afghanistan for pretty much the same reasons some time later...
politics [sigh].So especially for the US (and other countries) the boycott of sportive events due to political reasons is not uncommon.
In the case of China it is a little more complicated though:
You are raising a valid point (and OWD has also done so previously in another thread that is roughly about a similar topic): To engage in a peaceful and constructive dialogue it is necessary to understand the 'opponents' arguments.
Interestingly the CIA has (allegedly) supported the Tibetan peoples continuous uprising against Chinese occupation between the 50s and 70s.
The fundamental question in all this is:
Is the Chinese occupation of Tibet in accordance to international law? I would say the answer to this is NO.
IF we would accept that one country can invade and occupy another country solely on the grounds that "the (Tibetan) Government did almost nothing to improve the (Tibetans') material and political standard of life during its rule (from 1913–59)" would we not completely corrupt international law?
Leading to the next question:
Is the Chinese regime conducting human rights abuses in Tibet? I would say the answer to this is YES - and not only in Tibet, but all over China... (please remember: 87.000 riots in China 2007 alone).
Even if the Tibetans were liberated by China back then (in 1949) it seems to be apparent that they seek autonomy (or independence) from China today.
All this (to me) already indicates that is preposterous to hold Olympic Games in China, a country oppressed by a military junta. A junta that still threatens its neighbouring countries (such as Taiwan, India and Russia) with nuclear weapons and supports a civil war in Africa.
The only reason why they get away with it is their economical power.
I'm not even getting into the fact of a "communist" regime producing billionaires - that pretty much is their own prerogative.
But certainly I would not support this regime by holding a internationally (highly) recognized event in its capital city... How is it a 'silent support'? You're asking... I can't explain to you why water (to me) feels wet...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
For the claim that the Olympic Games are non-political games, a short history of the political games:
1916 Berlin - WWI cancels the Games
1920 Antwerp - the losers of WWI (Germany, Austria, Bulgaria, Turkey and Hungaria) are banned
1924 Paris - Germany still banned
1928 Amsterdam - UK women boycotted the Games as only 5 disciplines were open to women.
1936 Berlin - the decision to have games in Germany was taken before Hitler came into power. It meant that Germany was back in the international community. As the Spanish civil war cancelled the counter-games in Barcelona, the Nazi regime used the games widely for its propaganda. The "Games of the Nations". Hitlers regime stalled the atrocities against Jews, all races and confessions were admitted. Even a declared communist was in the German team.
1948 London - Germany and Japan were not invited.
1952 Helsinki - peaceful
1956 Melbourne - Due to the Suez Crisis, Egypt, Iraq, and Lebanon announced they wouldn't participate in the Olympics. The Soviet Union overran the independent Hungary, leading to the withdrawal of the Netherlands, Spain, and Switzerland. Less than two weeks before the November 22 opening ceremony, the People's Republic of China also pulled out because the Republic of China had been allowed to compete under the name "Formosa". In these games and the next 2, namely
1960 Rome and
1964 Tokyo - Germany manages to start with a single team, not one for East and one for West. The title: EUA means Équipe unifiée d'Allemagne - kinda politically (in)correct. Adjusted the next year.
1968 Mexico - East and West Germany have their own teams and the 200m finalists Tommie Smith (Gold)/ John Carlos (Bronze) receive the honours. During the ceremony they rise their fists as to promote the Black Power movement. The IOC protests and both get dismissed from the US team the very same day.
1972 Munich - Members of the PLO kidnap the Israeli team and subsequently all 13 get killed, plus 5 terrorists and 1 policeman in a failed rescue operation.
1976 Montreal - 28 countries boycott the games as New Zealand continued to play rugby with South Africa, so we're speaking of African nations boycotting, including both - the Republic of China and the People's Republic of China over issues concerning the legitimacy of each other. In November 1976, the International Olympic Committee recognized the People's Republic of China as the sole legal representative.
1980 Moscow - the US boycott the Games due to Afghanistan. But Pres. Carter goes further and demands his allies also to boycott. Countries like Italy, Australia or Switzerland let their athletes compete, yet not under the national flags but with the Olympic flag. Germany opts for a complete boycott.
1984 Los Angeles - the Eastern European (except Romania) countries return the favour.
1988 Seoul - North Korea, still officially at war with South Korea, boycotted the event. Cuba, Ethiopia and Nicaragua joined the boycott.
1992 Barcelona - the first games since 1972 with all nations participating.
No boycott since then.
IMO we - as the audience should revive the political protest...
For the claim that the Olympic Games are non-political games, a short history of the political games:
1916 Berlin - WWI cancels the Games
1920 Antwerp - the losers of WWI (Germany, Austria, Bulgaria, Turkey and Hungaria) are banned
1924 Paris - Germany still banned
1928 Amsterdam - UK women boycotted the Games as only 5 disciplines were open to women.
1936 Berlin - the decision to have games in Germany was taken before Hitler came into power. It meant that Germany was back in the international community. As the Spanish civil war cancelled the counter-games in Barcelona, the Nazi regime used the games widely for its propaganda. The "Games of the Nations". Hitlers regime stalled the atrocities against Jews, all races and confessions were admitted. Even a declared communist was in the German team.
1948 London - Germany and Japan were not invited.
1952 Helsinki - peaceful
1956 Melbourne - Due to the Suez Crisis, Egypt, Iraq, and Lebanon announced they wouldn't participate in the Olympics. The Soviet Union overran the independent Hungary, leading to the withdrawal of the Netherlands, Spain, and Switzerland. Less than two weeks before the November 22 opening ceremony, the People's Republic of China also pulled out because the Republic of China had been allowed to compete under the name "Formosa". In these games and the next 2, namely
1960 Rome and
1964 Tokyo - Germany manages to start with a single team, not one for East and one for West. The title: EUA means Équipe unifiée d'Allemagne - kinda politically (in)correct. Adjusted the next year.
1968 Mexico - East and West Germany have their own teams and the 200m finalists Tommie Smith (Gold)/ John Carlos (Bronze) receive the honours. During the ceremony they rise their fists as to promote the Black Power movement. The IOC protests and both get dismissed from the US team the very same day.
1972 Munich - Members of the PLO kidnap the Israeli team and subsequently all 13 get killed, plus 5 terrorists and 1 policeman in a failed rescue operation.
1976 Montreal - 28 countries boycott the games as New Zealand continued to play rugby with South Africa, so we're speaking of African nations boycotting, including both - the Republic of China and the People's Republic of China over issues concerning the legitimacy of each other. In November 1976, the International Olympic Committee recognized the People's Republic of China as the sole legal representative.
1980 Moscow - the US boycott the Games due to Afghanistan. But Pres. Carter goes further and demands his allies also to boycott. Countries like Italy, Australia or Switzerland let their athletes compete, yet not under the national flags but with the Olympic flag. Germany opts for a complete boycott.
1984 Los Angeles - the Eastern European (except Romania) countries return the favour.
1988 Seoul - North Korea, still officially at war with South Korea, boycotted the event. Cuba, Ethiopia and Nicaragua joined the boycott.
1992 Barcelona - the first games since 1972 with all nations participating.
No boycott since then.
IMO we - as the audience should revive the political protest...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
So whaddaya think of China and the Olympics now?
So whaddaya think of China and the Olympics now?
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I think you have to lead by example. Therefore, I think it’s just plain hypocrisy for Bush to chide China on human rights. Given the recent examples of American human rights abuse that include, but are not limited to, the invasion of Iraq, the patriot act and Guantanamo bay.
I think you have to lead by example. Therefore, I think it’s just plain hypocrisy for Bush to chide China on human rights. Given the recent examples of American human rights abuse that include, but are not limited to, the invasion of Iraq, the patriot act and Guantanamo bay.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
As an ex-future-olympian and asthmatic...that smog scares me.
And I'm still not a fan of the decision to have them in China, and not just cos of the smog.
As an ex-future-olympian and asthmatic...that smog scares me.
And I'm still not a fan of the decision to have them in China, and not just cos of the smog.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Having the Olympics in China has (not) been a wrong decision. The IOC is corrupt. It's been about money and influence, never about "to better the situation of human rights in China" or "to integrate China into the (democratic) world".
But (as so often) - IMHO - good things happen from bad intent: the world now gets to notice more, what the Chinese regime really is about.
It's oppressive, anti-humanitarian, fascist and has nothing to do with 'communism' - but (as so often) is merely totalitarian (not even in disguise).
Stone: I believe that Bush is leading by example, however
Having the Olympics in China has (not) been a wrong decision. The IOC is corrupt. It's been about money and influence, never about "to better the situation of human rights in China" or "to integrate China into the (democratic) world".
But (as so often) - IMHO - good things happen from bad intent: the world now gets to notice more, what the Chinese regime really is about.
It's oppressive, anti-humanitarian, fascist and has nothing to do with 'communism' - but (as so often) is merely totalitarian (not even in disguise).
Stone: I believe that Bush is leading by example, however
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
In most respects in this discussion I agree with Rouge. As a former member of the Junior Team GB I find it slightly offensive that people talk about not watching the olympic games because of where it's held etc.
Yes there is VERY often a political agenda associated with the olympic games and I believe it's because it is the SINGULAR event where ALL countries are supposed to come together. The only TRUELY world stage. And the politics are rarely initiated by the atheletes, in such examples as they are, are normally quite good reasons.
So holding the Olympics in China was a bad idea yes... how many people have now been made aware of Chinas poor human rights who wouldn't have if the olympics had been held somewhere else? Is that a bad thing? we could always sweep such issues under the carpet and hide them from the world. Yes china may make a bit of money from the event but is it really making them look good? the Olympics has ever been a double edged sword.
I personally will watch the olympics, NOT for China but for the people who have worked their whole lives to be there because to do anything else is to belittle their efforts because they were unfortunate enough to peak at a time the Olympic committee Handed the Olympics to a country with Questionable Ethics. I does annoy me when some people say they aren't going to watch the Olympics because of Chinas Human rights record espescially people I know who wouldn't watch them anyway.
We could all boycott buying stuff in the shops which mostly comes from china, clothes, fabrics, electronics but no we decide to to do an event with high media coverage which oh hang on a second is exactly the same as the political manouvering that everyone associates with the games... why because it's that world stage again.
The act of boycotting the games because of human rights issues is the reason people say the olympic games is a political games. Because YOU want to make a statement and the Games is a Large enough Platform to associate with.
Do as I said above and boycott something that will effect china because not watching the games must be making them quake in their boots and rethink their policies on human rights because the threat is so severe.
I suppose my point is about hypocrisy. People want the Human rights offenses of China to be exposed, what better way to do it than give them the Olympic games. Seriously how could you get so many people to hear about it?
EDITED_BY: Mynci (1218182897)
In most respects in this discussion I agree with Rouge. As a former member of the Junior Team GB I find it slightly offensive that people talk about not watching the olympic games because of where it's held etc.
Yes there is VERY often a political agenda associated with the olympic games and I believe it's because it is the SINGULAR event where ALL countries are supposed to come together. The only TRUELY world stage. And the politics are rarely initiated by the atheletes, in such examples as they are, are normally quite good reasons.
So holding the Olympics in China was a bad idea yes... how many people have now been made aware of Chinas poor human rights who wouldn't have if the olympics had been held somewhere else? Is that a bad thing? we could always sweep such issues under the carpet and hide them from the world. Yes china may make a bit of money from the event but is it really making them look good? the Olympics has ever been a double edged sword.
I personally will watch the olympics, NOT for China but for the people who have worked their whole lives to be there because to do anything else is to belittle their efforts because they were unfortunate enough to peak at a time the Olympic committee Handed the Olympics to a country with Questionable Ethics. I does annoy me when some people say they aren't going to watch the Olympics because of Chinas Human rights record espescially people I know who wouldn't watch them anyway.
We could all boycott buying stuff in the shops which mostly comes from china, clothes, fabrics, electronics but no we decide to to do an event with high media coverage which oh hang on a second is exactly the same as the political manouvering that everyone associates with the games... why because it's that world stage again.
The act of boycotting the games because of human rights issues is the reason people say the olympic games is a political games. Because YOU want to make a statement and the Games is a Large enough Platform to associate with.
Do as I said above and boycott something that will effect china because not watching the games must be making them quake in their boots and rethink their policies on human rights because the threat is so severe.
I suppose my point is about hypocrisy. People want the Human rights offenses of China to be exposed, what better way to do it than give them the Olympic games. Seriously how could you get so many people to hear about it?
EDITED_BY: Mynci (1218182897)
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
i loved the news footage of the olympic torch being carried along the great wall of china, only when they showed a panoramic view the smog meant you couldnt see the wall, or anything for that matter.
i loved the news footage of the olympic torch being carried along the great wall of china, only when they showed a panoramic view the smog meant you couldnt see the wall, or anything for that matter.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
hear hear!
I have to admit - there's a girl competing at these Olympics who I used to compete against and I have to admit that I don't envy her to peak at these controversial games (although in reality she peaked early and I would have peaked for London..hell! she might be in London as well!)
Written by :Mynci
I personally will watch the olympics, NOT for China but for the people who have worked their whole lives to be there because to do anything else is to belittle their efforts because they were unfortunate enough to peak at a time the Olympic committee Handed the Olympics to a country with Questionable Ethics. I does annoy me when some people say they aren't going to watch the Olympics because of Chinas Human rights record espescially people I know who wouldn't watch them anyway.
hear hear!
I have to admit - there's a girl competing at these Olympics who I used to compete against and I have to admit that I don't envy her to peak at these controversial games (although in reality she peaked early and I would have peaked for London..hell! she might be in London as well!)
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Good Post, Mynci.
Which is why I said: The initial intent to have the Games in Bejing has been a bad one (money, not the Olympic spirit) - the outcome actually might be good.
Which directly leads me to another question: As an athlete, what is your participation in the Games about? Is it about competition with the rest of the world and to participate in this event (and maybe win it), or is it publicity?
What difference does it make, whether the whole world watches you beating the rest of the pack and receiving a (gold) medal - or the rest of the world decides not to watch it. Is your recognition (Mrs. XXX won Gold, broke the Olympic/world record in YYY) less, just because nobody watched you actually crossing the line?
What have these Games become? A money oriented media-spectacle? If so, then I would suggest to boycott ALL games, in Bejing or London. Doesn't matter.
You suggest to boycott Chinese goods. Well said and theoretically a noble idea - practically... well, I'm not certain whether you really got the chance to FULLY boycott Chinese goods after all.
Cars, computers, airplanes, clothing... your very juggling equipment: Made or assembled in China. Most of the mass products are coming from China - or at least some components.
Please note (once more) that by any means I'm not trying to boycott the Chinese, but its their political leadership that I'm unhappy about.
And when you're looking at (official numbers) 80.000 riots last year alone - the Chinese themselves are not really happy too.
Good Post, Mynci.
Which is why I said: The initial intent to have the Games in Bejing has been a bad one (money, not the Olympic spirit) - the outcome actually might be good.
Which directly leads me to another question: As an athlete, what is your participation in the Games about? Is it about competition with the rest of the world and to participate in this event (and maybe win it), or is it publicity?
What difference does it make, whether the whole world watches you beating the rest of the pack and receiving a (gold) medal - or the rest of the world decides not to watch it. Is your recognition (Mrs. XXX won Gold, broke the Olympic/world record in YYY) less, just because nobody watched you actually crossing the line?
What have these Games become? A money oriented media-spectacle? If so, then I would suggest to boycott ALL games, in Bejing or London. Doesn't matter.
You suggest to boycott Chinese goods. Well said and theoretically a noble idea - practically... well, I'm not certain whether you really got the chance to FULLY boycott Chinese goods after all.
Cars, computers, airplanes, clothing... your very juggling equipment: Made or assembled in China. Most of the mass products are coming from China - or at least some components.
Please note (once more) that by any means I'm not trying to boycott the Chinese, but its their political leadership that I'm unhappy about.
And when you're looking at (official numbers) 80.000 riots last year alone - the Chinese themselves are not really happy too.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
When I was an athlete it was about the competing pushing myself and to be honest meeting LOADS of new people, kinda like Hop and that's what the Olympics was supposed to be about and why I love it. No Matter what Politics attach themselves to the games you gete extra ordinary people performing brilliantly. Yes some do it for money and Fame. ( I believe the Whole Bulgarian weightlifting team has been withdrawn after 12 failed random drugs tests) but for many it's the culmination of a life times work and the fulfilment of a dream. The ONE THING on this planet that occassionally pulls every nation together with 1 goal, to strive.
Sydney 2000 was a fantastic games (well done Aussies) and should be what every games aspire to.
what you said about boycotting chinese goods.... unless your self sufficient I believe it would be nigh on impossible, even stuff made in uk has chinese components or textiles it was the futility I was aiming for why boycott something potentially great for mankind when Chinese exports (which the world craves) are pretty much destroying the planet environmentally.
To be honest most of the people on here know what they are talking about and have great morals. I got a bit P***ed off at work because loads of people were talking about boycotting the olympics because of Chinese Human rights issues and they don't care, they were jumping on a band wagon and could not understand any of my previous points because my view hadn't been on "the news"
My biggest disappointment about all this is how so many people are more closely related to sheep than free thinkers. I don't care if people disagree with me as long as THEY disagree with me because they thought it through.
When I was an athlete it was about the competing pushing myself and to be honest meeting LOADS of new people, kinda like Hop
and that's what the Olympics was supposed to be about and why I love it. No Matter what Politics attach themselves to the games you gete extra ordinary people performing brilliantly. Yes some do it for money and Fame. ( I believe the Whole Bulgarian weightlifting team has been withdrawn after 12 failed random drugs tests) but for many it's the culmination of a life times work and the fulfilment of a dream. The ONE THING on this planet that occassionally pulls every nation together with 1 goal, to strive. Sydney 2000 was a fantastic games (well done Aussies) and should be what every games aspire to.
what you said about boycotting chinese goods.... unless your self sufficient I believe it would be nigh on impossible, even stuff made in uk has chinese components or textiles
it was the futility I was aiming for why boycott something potentially great for mankind when Chinese exports (which the world craves) are pretty much destroying the planet environmentally.To be honest most of the people on here know what they are talking about and have great morals. I got a bit P***ed off at work because loads of people were talking about boycotting the olympics because of Chinese Human rights issues and they don't care, they were jumping on a band wagon and could not understand any of my previous points because my view hadn't been on "the news"
My biggest disappointment about all this is how so many people are more closely related to sheep than free thinkers. I don't care if people disagree with me as long as THEY disagree with me because they thought it through.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
It may depend on the sport. If your sport gets a lot of media coverage, then it might be about publicity*. But for me, as a sport with little attention in the media, my desire was about the participation in the event.
Now I put on my coaches hat:
I think that it can be good for the sport to have millions of people watch you cross the line or score the goal. A way to engage people in a new sport, show them what's out there. Show sporty little kids what options they have and that there's more than just footy and cricket (or whatever the cultural equivalent is for your own country)
*sorry, am sick of the Australian media being so freakin obsessed with swimming!
Written by :FireTom
Which directly leads me to another question: As an athlete, what is your participation in the Games about? Is it about competition with the rest of the world and to participate in this event (and maybe win it), or is it publicity?
It may depend on the sport. If your sport gets a lot of media coverage, then it might be about publicity*. But for me, as a sport with little attention in the media, my desire was about the participation in the event.
Written by : tom
What difference does it make, whether the whole world watches you beating the rest of the pack and receiving a (gold) medal - or the rest of the world decides not to watch it. Is your recognition (Mrs. XXX won Gold, broke the Olympic/world record in YYY) less, just because nobody watched you actually crossing the line?
Now I put on my coaches hat:
I think that it can be good for the sport to have millions of people watch you cross the line or score the goal. A way to engage people in a new sport, show them what's out there. Show sporty little kids what options they have and that there's more than just footy and cricket (or whatever the cultural equivalent is for your own country)
*sorry, am sick of the Australian media being so freakin obsessed with swimming!
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
I agree with Rougie
The Olympics gives good air time to a number of lesser known / seen sports that would otherwise get almost no TV coverage at all. I almost think the Olympics Existance keeps some sports alive, because with out that TV coverage, as rougue says, kids wouldn't necessaryily know they exist. I did athletics and got bored of watching people run round a track followed by 10 seconds of a field event I really wanted to see followed by a re-viewing of the 10,000m or something. nowadays you get a much better spread of coverage.
I agree with Rougie
The Olympics gives good air time to a number of lesser known / seen sports that would otherwise get almost no TV coverage at all. I almost think the Olympics Existance keeps some sports alive, because with out that TV coverage, as rougue says, kids wouldn't necessaryily know they exist. I did athletics and got bored of watching people run round a track followed by 10 seconds of a field event I really wanted to see followed by a re-viewing of the 10,000m or something. nowadays you get a much better spread of coverage.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Too true Fire Tom, and that’s the tragedy.
On the other hand, I think that the Olympic games draws the world together, and they do have a unifying effect.
Written by Fire Tom
Stone: I believe that Bush is leading by example, however
Too true Fire Tom, and that’s the tragedy.
On the other hand, I think that the Olympic games draws the world together, and they do have a unifying effect.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
And that is part of the problem:
Bush is nearly history and just tries to do as much damage as possible in those few months left. He's a sad figure of world politics and a disgrace for the United States (IMNSHO) - let's see whether the American public will set the record straight or not.
However, when it comes to the Games there are two sides:
one side - the world united in sport and peace
the other side - the IOC making profit and politics...
Holding the games in Bejing (to me) is similar to holding them in Zimbabwe...
And that is part of the problem:
Bush is nearly history and just tries to do as much damage as possible in those few months left. He's a sad figure of world politics and a disgrace for the United States (IMNSHO) - let's see whether the American public will set the record straight or not.
However, when it comes to the Games there are two sides:
one side - the world united in sport and peace
the other side - the IOC making profit and politics...
Holding the games in Bejing (to me) is similar to holding them in Zimbabwe...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
I don't miss the bush bashing
I don't care about the politics or the money. there a bunch of athletes from WI who worked their hinders off and i will cheer them on no matter what country they are in
toodles
just thought i'd say hi
I don't miss the bush bashing
I don't care about the politics or the money. there a bunch of athletes from WI who worked their hinders off and i will cheer them on no matter what country they are in
toodles
just thought i'd say hi
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Sort of I am proud that at least the German chancellor kept to (humanitarian) priciples... refreshing amidst all this hippocricy. Can't wait for that baby-boy-cow (GWB) to leave office. The more I see of his scheming smirk, the more I feel disgusted and the urge to go puke.
Kind-a not surprising that the TV-coverage of the fireworks (allegedly) has not been 'live' and that the pretty little girl singing has only been synchronized to the not-so-pretty little girl behind the scenes...
The more I think about it, I really start to applaud the idea to have the games in Bejing (even though I fully boycot broadcasting) - it might open the eyes of two or three more people what the Chinese government is really about (and how similar to that our own governments are).
Sort of I am proud that at least the German chancellor kept to (humanitarian) priciples... refreshing amidst all this hippocricy. Can't wait for that baby-boy-cow (GWB) to leave office. The more I see of his scheming smirk, the more I feel disgusted and the urge to go puke.
Kind-a not surprising that the TV-coverage of the fireworks (allegedly) has not been 'live' and that the pretty little girl singing has only been synchronized to the not-so-pretty little girl behind the scenes...
The more I think about it, I really start to applaud the idea to have the games in Bejing (even though I fully boycot broadcasting) - it might open the eyes of two or three more people what the Chinese government is really about (and how similar to that our own governments are).
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
member
151 posts
Location: London, United Kingdom
member
151 posts
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posted:
Strange how the Beijing Olympics were hugely successful and enjoyed by people the world over despite so much negativity by the BBC and such strong disapproval by HOP members!!!
I hope you're all enroled in Mandarin classes, you know what the future looks like!
Strange how the Beijing Olympics were hugely successful and enjoyed by people the world over despite so much negativity by the BBC and such strong disapproval by HOP members!!!
I hope you're all enroled in Mandarin classes, you know what the future looks like!
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Strange then how (at least) the German audience has greatly been desinterested and the Olympics in Bejing received the least interest of all Games in the past... (according to media reports).
I can't side your conclusion that "HoP members strongly disapproved" of the Games, it has been quite even.
Now I'm kind of looking forward to the discussion about London being host to the 2012 Games, now that the UK human rights record went down...
Strange then how (at least) the German audience has greatly been desinterested and the Olympics in Bejing received the least interest of all Games in the past... (according to media reports).
I can't side your conclusion that "HoP members strongly disapproved" of the Games, it has been quite even.
Now I'm kind of looking forward to the discussion about London being host to the 2012 Games, now that the UK human rights record went down...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
member
151 posts
Location: London, United Kingdom
member
151 posts
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm looking forward to that discussion too. And I'm also looking forward to the German chancellor sticking to his/her amazing humanitarian principles and boycotting the London games as well.
Of course we must not forget that the UK is part of the Western world, so it is our god given right to host the Olympics. Just like its our right to abuse human rights the world over in the name of humanitarianism.
I'm looking forward to that discussion too. And I'm also looking forward to the German chancellor sticking to his/her amazing humanitarian principles and boycotting the London games as well.
Of course we must not forget that the UK is part of the Western world, so it is our god given right to host the Olympics. Just like its our right to abuse human rights the world over in the name of humanitarianism.
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Originally Posted By: Yellfire!Of course we must not forget that the UK is part of the Western world, so it is our god given right to host the Olympics. Just like its our right to abuse human rights the world over in the name of humanitarianism.
Well said Yell! You got that right.
So, perhaps it's time to move on from the antiquated western ideology that human rights abuse is acceptable if we call it humanitarianism.
EDITED_BY: Stone (1220437307)
Originally Posted By: Yellfire!Of course we must not forget that the UK is part of the Western world, so it is our god given right to host the Olympics. Just like its our right to abuse human rights the world over in the name of humanitarianism.
Well said Yell! You got that right.
So, perhaps it's time to move on from the antiquated western ideology that human rights abuse is acceptable if we call it humanitarianism.
EDITED_BY: Stone (1220437307)
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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