Forums > Social Chat > poi a weapon in disguise

Posted: 17th May 2001
Some poi moves are not much different than Nunchuk, and the tool is not much different than the European mace. I'm still not sure if poi were ever used as a weapon by the Maori, or just as a means to increase strength and coordination.It is interestng you should mention the "concealment" issue, as this reminds me somewhat of the Brazilian martial art of Capoeira, developed by slaves and concealed from their masters as a form of dance.-p.

Posted: 17th May 2001
Some of the history variations have it either as a weapon or as a training weapon, depending on which polynesian history you are looking at.I find that nunchuk is actually more like staff, but that poi are very mace/flail like in nature. There is also a (forgive bad spelling here) Manriki, which is very similar to poi and staff depending on which style is being used to weild it.I set Prom's butt on fire once with my poi, does that count? ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 17th May 2001

quote:

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I set Prom's butt on fire once with my poi, does that count?

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only if it was on purpose Pelehaahahahahaa [image]https://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif">------------------[/image]"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams"- Willy Wonka

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.


- Mark Twain

Posted: 18th May 2001
A friend and I used to have *poi fights* with our tennis ball poi. You can disarm your opponent by getting their poi off them with yours and then go in for *the kill*. Great fun, but not to be taken seriously, just for a laugh!! I reccommend getting together with a spinner of similar ability and giving it a try.When out in town busking the fireshow or doing paid work I have been known to go off into daydreams about beating up hecklers with flaming firechains, but this will NEVER become a reality. However, if I was in a position where I REALLY needed to defend myself and I had my fire chains on me I would probably use them, But ONLY in self defence.One love, Thistlefirepixie

Are we nearly there yet?

Posted: 18th May 2001
Ha!My best friend eric and I often make like ninja's in my back yard when we spin, he uses a staff and I use my poi, beleive me its damn funny. ------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Posted: 18th May 2001
BTW, I know this guy "EnigmA", he goes to my high school. We attempted having a "Poi fight" of sorts once, he used my tennis ball Poi and I had an old flagpole used like a medaevil sword. He's kind of obsessed with weapons though. Also interesting of you to mention Capoeira, he's interested in that too.

((m/)) --==EyeStorm==--

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 19th May 2001
This is a totally true story.I had not long finished a fire breathing demo with my fire club at Southbank in the city, and was walking back to my car to go home. I was twirling my big poi as i walked along (as i am known to do), when i heard a voice behind me shout out "Somebody stop that guy!" I flicked my poi out to the side of me so i could spin around and see what the yelling was about when 'CRACK', the dood who was being chased got totally taken out by my chains which sent him crashing to the ground and causing him to drop the camera he'd just stolen of a Japanese tourist.I shit myself on the spot, thinking i was gonna get done for assault or something, and took off like rocket outta there. When i got to the top of the Princes bridge i looked back and saw 2 security guards hawling the dood away and then it dawned on me that he was the guy they wanted stopped. Since then i've looked at my poi in a whole new light. Maybe i should of hung around, there might of been a reward in it or something but at the time all i could see was some cop questioning me over my carrying and use of a weapon. I just couldn't see him bying the whole 'they're a toy you play with' angle. In answer to the question,yes poi can be dangerous and considered a weapon if used like a weapon. Just check out the Shaolin Monks and see how they use a poi-like weapon in their teachings. Pretty scary stuff.Haven't taken out anyone since then, nor do i want to but if backed into a corner and all that stood between me and a bloody good bashing was my poi, i'd use 'em. But there wouldn't be too mant btb weaves or anything fancy i think.C'ya, Chris @ Fireworks.

Posted: 22nd May 2001
Spending his childhood raised by fire twirling monks Chris@fireworks knew there was something missing from his life.Setting out with nothing more than his poi at his side he set out in search of true the twirling Nirvana. **Wooooeeeooooooo**POI-FUOne man on a path of betterment helping those he stumbles across with the ancient art of poi-fu

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 23rd May 2001
well sure, but you can use a ruler as a weapon if you put your mind to it. shoot, you can run people down if you choose to, anything can be turned into a weapon, you can drop a desk out of a window onto someone. i hate when teachers give me crap about my toys being used as weapons, i mean come on, they keep scisors in their desk, it would seem that has more potential to become a weapon than poi.but anyway, way to go chris, and check these out, perhaps they'll come in handy the next time. [image]https://store2.yimg.com/I/tigerstrike-martial-arts_1637_5291976[/image] [image]https://store2.yimg.com/I/tigerstrike-martial-arts_1637_5301457[/image] [image]https://store2.yimg.com/I/tigerstrike-martial-arts_1637_5284780[/image] these are all available at https://www.tigerstrike.com

Posted: 24th May 2001
oh yeah! i have never actually used my poi as a weapon but i have been dreaming of doing some martial arts traing to incorporate with my fire performing. i think it would look bad ass!just stating the obvious here but nunchucks are obviously a weapon (( illegal in my lovely state of california )) but anyway nunchucks use the same movements as poi really. i want to make a pair for myself for sure!i dont want to actually get in fights with my fire tools but 1)it is good to know self defence (( unless of course there is a gun involved in which case you are screwed )) 2)it would look super cool to use martial arts moves with fire performing.word.------------------https://geocities.com/seeds_of_fire

Posted: 27th May 2001
Being a lone girl travelling home on Sydney's Cityrail network late at nights (after Circus training), I've often been glad to know I had some handy weapons at hand... presence of mind is a good thing =)

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring.
TOLKIEN

Posted: 27th May 2001
for me poi is not about destruction, but about creation.it goes against everything i do poi for.when i poi i meditate and think happy thoughts rather than thinking about twatting some guys face in.

Posted: 27th May 2001
yes, that's true. no offense meant... poi is one of my most relaxing activities too. i just think it's more streetsmart being aware of opportunities that may arise in public, and how to deal with them (numchucking them with poi is a fantastical example of such a thought... i have very fantastical imaginings:/)

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring.
TOLKIEN

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 27th May 2001
I personally think that in the hands of 99.99% of ppl (even ppl who are decent twirlers) poi as a weapon would be more than useless.You'd probably only anger your opponent, and or provide them with a reason to use a weapon on you. and if they manage to grab your poi (not so hard after you have attempted to whack em) they can use em on you (as a garotte) or pull you in by them (if you were silly enough to put on the self-tightening handles).Even a fire staff is a pretty useless weapon unless it's in the hands of someone who know how to use a staff as a weapon in the first place. Its *not* the same, kids!(besides, it would work a hell of a lot better without the wick on the ends).If you are worried about your lack of self-defence prowess, do a martial arts class...(check previous threads on this topic) if you dont have time do a short course in practical self-defence. It will be more likely to save your life, than the false knoweledge that you could use poi as a weapon if you had to using your twirling skills...sorry to be a downer on this, but I guess I've had experience with this; as a teacher of weaponry for self-defence, and a teacher / student of twirling for fun.Josh

Posted: 28th May 2001
Ok i've seen a ninja swinging poi in one of the american ninja movies and a black guy doing poi in a wu tang video and someone told me that there's something like judo in poi. one site calls the use of staff a warrior dance while the use of poi was used to streaghten wrists, coordination and flexibility

Posted: 28th May 2001
I dont want to learn poi as a martial art in order to pummel someone. Using my fire tools (poi, staff, torches, etc) are a sacred dance to me, a meditation no doubt. Yet at the same time it IS a renegade art (meaning not completley legal even in my fire hip town of SF,CA). Fire tools or no fire tools, as a woman I think it important for us to be able to defend ourselves. I have wanted to learn martial arts SEPARATE from my fire tools. Yet as I go deeper and deeper into dancing/performing with fire, I realize how natural it is for the two to work together. I want to explore copeira and am open to learning other forms of martial arts to use separately as well as with with my fire tools. I personally want to commit myself to working with fire for many years to come, becoming a master of sorts. Same with martial arts. I will find a school of study (capoiera, tai chi, etc) that suits me and commit myself to it for many years (i am still searching for the right martial arts to study hard-core.) Through commiting oneself to something (fire, martial arts, etc), I believe one comes to respect all their hard work and isn't going to just pummel some stranger merely to fight and get out random agro energy. No. Fighting should only be used (in my humble opinion) only when absolutely necessary and not be merely a recreational sport.Putting out there the need for respect when fire tools are used as weapons. Proceed with caution and with respect for our fellow humans =)------------------https://geocities.com/seeds_of_fire

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 29th May 2001
after careful analysis (okay i was screwing around at a music festival) i have come to teh conclusion that poi, as threatening as they may appear, would not make a very effective weapon. if they had a stick or anything like that, they can just put it in the way of your chain. after the first hit, the flow of your poi gets very messed up and it can cause they to "spin out" and get tangled. basically, they just got to take a hit and then they are back on top. although i suppose it might be different if instead of tennis balls on the ends of my poi i had FLAMING SPINNING STEEL BLADES OF DEATH... but alas i dont. anyway, for protectoin just get an air powered taser. i saw one of those on jackass, it looked very painful and not fun for the attacker. i mean he had to pry them out of his skin with pliers.

Posted: 29th May 2001
Why is everybody so touchy on the subject of poi as a weapon? as if it's going to make it evil or something.I mean there are enough links on this page to the topic of weapons that you'd think it's ok. But no everyone tells me it's about expression not destruction as if I'm some sort of blood thirsty maniac trying to break everyones skull with a flaming ball. Now when I talk about using it as a weapon I dont mean while it's on fire, If someone pulls out a knife on me on the street I'm not going to tell him to wait as I lite my poi on fire, But rather whip out my poi unstead of my wallet and start swinging like crazy in order to scare my attacker away avoiding a physical confrontation. Please not repies about poi being defective against a gun.

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 29th May 2001
yo Enigma,I'm wondering if you have ever practiced using your poi as a weapon? cuz its not the same as just swinging them.cuz if you havent, your attempt at scaring your attacker away may just get you killed. just give em your wallet dude.and besides, your fists, elbows, head, knees and feet are much much stronger weapons than your poi ( - unless you have spent a couple of years learning how to use a weighted chain as a weapon -)Geeze, your hospital bills will be much much more than the $50 in your wallet.ok - if you dont know how to defend yourself, and you are in a situation you cant get out of, and you or someone you care about is going to be hurt, sure do anything you can to deter your attacker.BTW - a decent keyring (with some keys) hooked onto the end of a belt (easy to assemble in a pinch) is a shitload more potent than an unlit fire poi.ugh - I feel unclean talking about this kinda thing...but I feel it needs to be said.Josh

Posted: 31st May 2001
OK, maybe I am not making myself clear and hopefully in this post I will do so. In my humble opinion ::1)There is nothing wrong with using poi (or any other fire tools for that matter) as a weapon2)BUT, in order to do so effectively the person using the fire tool as a weapon HAS TO KNOW WHAT THEYH ARE DOING! This entails serious martial arts training, not merely "screwing around at a music festival" (sorry redbrother:P). Only people skilled and trained in martial arts should even attempt to use poi/fire tools as a weapon. Otherwise you are likely to a) make a fool out of yourself b) hurt yourself!I hope this makes sense. Poi as a weapon is not evil nor blasphemous nor impractical nor impossible. If one knows what they are doing from a martial arts standpoint, it is completley possible.Respect to all who are engaged in this firey discussion =)sierra~

Posted: 3rd Jun 2001
Ok Proof that poi is a weapon in disgise.-the meteor is called a meteor hammer when swung like a weapon, rightand the only difference between the meteor hammer and the meteor are the weights on the end. the meteor is for show therefore fireburning material is placed on the end to make it look good while the meteor hammer is a weapon so skull cracking metal heads are placed on the end for deadly results.-so if you change the flamy stuff on the end of your poi for metal heads you've got poi hammer a weapon.And I know there hard to use but asians have been fighting with objects like these for centuries so its not imposible just because none of you guys know applications.

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 3rd Jun 2001
yeah whatever dude,If I put knives on the ends of my chains it will be a better weapon too.You proved that if you made poi specifically for being a weapon, it would be a weapon..goodonya.werent we talking about 'normal' poi?Whats next, ya gonna prove the earth is round for us all too?Josh

Posted: 3rd Jun 2001
Martial Arts + Poi = Me-=LiquidNinja=-=-(There can be only one...)-=

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 16th Jun 2001
If you think of it or use it as wepon you will seriously limit yourself to what can be learnt.

Posted: 17th Jun 2001
Hey, you could poke someones eye out with a pencil, dose that make all writing tools weapons? I get the Idea of the arguement, or debate or whatever you call this thing, but anything in the right, or wrong, hands can be used as a weapon. I don't think it would be good PR to advertise it as a weapon, unless that is your type of show.------------------Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

Posted: 17th Jun 2001
weapon or not they hurt when you hit yourself in the bollocks no doubt about that------------------handlebar moustaches are funny :)

handlebar moustaches are funny :)

Posted: 22nd Jun 2001
I'm not saying that you can turn poi into a weapon,or even misuse it as a weapon. I'm saying that maybe there's more to poi then meets the eye. And perhaps it is a fighing style that has been disguised like a dance. just like kali and capoeira, witch are just 2 fighing styles out of many that have been disguised to look like a dance so it would be accepted by society. And who can dennay that the meteor didn't evolve from a weapon known as a meteor hammer and that staff is a worrior weapon dance.

Posted: 24th Oct 2008
agree.
two words, Lead and balls.

Posted: 24th Oct 2008
Ok, I suppose I'll weigh in, as somebody who has also had plenty of experience with martial arts weaponry... Poi as we do it is very un-weapon like. Indeed, most weapons resembling poi in any way (flails like nunchaku or chain maces) lack any real subtlety or art to their use. When people think assert that poi moves resemble nunchaku moves, they're usually referring to modern performance or freestyle chucking - to use one as a weapon is not graceful at all. Unless you use the cord and handles for joint manipulation, but it's difficult to make that a solo performance art. Flails of any sort are really just glorified, articulated clubs - sometimes they have embellishments like spikes, flanges, studs, or weights, and other times it's just a bare stick (variants of nunchaku-like weapons also have 4-ft or longer hafts, and others have three or four sticks). But at the end of the day, all you're doing is taking a striking implement and adding length and acceleration, giving it a greater striking force, along with some other secondary advantages, as well as some secondary disadvantages.

As for the meteor - the weapon variation was much, much longer than anything we use for artistic purposes. Almost rope-dart length. And even then, the meteor and the rope dart were basically weights swung around or thrown, and are among the most primitive and common forms of weapons in existence (evidence for this class of weapon goes back to the earliest Chinese, as well as Hawaiians, South Americans, and ancient Europeans) - but the similarity is that they are all very long. Combat motions do not involve most of the twirling or body wraps we are familiar with. My friends and I used to spar with rope darts (well, rope hackey-sacks, 'cause they hurt less!) - and I can vouch for their simplicity and efficacy.

Still, I've found that knowing the martial arts does not really add anything to a good performance. Effective techniques in the martial arts tend to be very direct and un-flashy. Movements I think are beautiful in swordplay are dull with "fire swords." A devastating strike with nunchaku looks like... Well a devastating strike with glowsticks - and that's absurd.

As far as being concealable and legal, well, for all that, they really aren't a threat. Fire poi have pretty soft wicks that you'll feel if they hit a soft spot, but they wont' stop somebody intent on doing you harm. Most practice poi are even more forgiving, even sand-filled tennis balls (as I use). I daresay you'd have more luck just removing the wick and using the chain. But really, you could thrash about with anything if you had to. Worrying about being "street smart" and relying on your poi is a serious lack of consideration for real street smarts - not doing poi in an area likely to get you mugged, for instance, would be a good start. If you're just passing through, not flashing what to a belligerent drunk appears to be a weapon is another thing to keep in mind.

Edit: Oops, just realized this post is 7 years old..... Way to bump, zorg! Haha.... I still don't think poi are a good weapon, though.
EDITED_BY: Mucky (1224888670)
EDIT_REASON: Apologizing for coming late to the party

Bouncing Baby Pipe!

Posted: 21st Jul 2017
When I travel internationally I make sock poi with contact juggling balls in the end instead of rice, which makes an effective carrying case for keeping scratches off the ball but also creates a self-defense weapon that I can carry through security. It might not be the best weapon in the world, but it could a heavy, solid, fast-flying acrylic ball could probably break bone and would definitely hurt like hell.