Forums > Social Discussion > cloning in schools
Login/Join to ParticipateGOLD Member
member
131 posts
Location: leicester, uk
member
131 posts
Location: leicester, uk
Posted:
so recently i have discovered that many school around my county and i think mostly over the country that there are many new rules being brought in to combat individuality.
the rules in my school for instance are:
-no make up
-no accesories
-no electronics (i.e phones, MP3's)
-no belts that arn't black leather and more than 5cm
and their excuse for this??? to stop bullying and to help students concentrate on education instead of fighting unheard of fashion wars. soon their going to have us marching round the corridors in time!
the problem that i see with this is that altough it may claim to stop bullying in school - it wont - kids will always find something to pick out if they are going to bully someone. The problems that will arise from this is that the bullys will find things to pick on that hit closer to home and make the victims feel more insecure about themelves as it is most likyly to be things they cannot change. Consequently when they finsh their education and come out into the real world they will be severly unprepared and will have the ideology that all people should be exactly the same and to be differnt is very very wrong
their bringing up a nation of sheep!
also they belive that bringing in uniform and dress code will calm behavior, however on a recent school trip to see romeo & juliet the whole auditorium was full of schools and we were the only ones out of uniform and yet we were the best behaved
wheres the sense in that???
i know for a fact that many people are not happy about these rules. Including the students and parents (I think some teachers aswell but they cant say for fear of being fired) Resulting from this a whole school protest is being planned, were not the kinda kids who like to get trampled on, we speak up if needs be
so just wondering what your views on this are???
so recently i have discovered that many school around my county and i think mostly over the country that there are many new rules being brought in to combat individuality.
the rules in my school for instance are:
-no make up
-no accesories
-no electronics (i.e phones, MP3's)
-no belts that arn't black leather and more than 5cm
and their excuse for this??? to stop bullying and to help students concentrate on education instead of fighting unheard of fashion wars. soon their going to have us marching round the corridors in time!
the problem that i see with this is that altough it may claim to stop bullying in school - it wont - kids will always find something to pick out if they are going to bully someone. The problems that will arise from this is that the bullys will find things to pick on that hit closer to home and make the victims feel more insecure about themelves as it is most likyly to be things they cannot change. Consequently when they finsh their education and come out into the real world they will be severly unprepared and will have the ideology that all people should be exactly the same and to be differnt is very very wrong
their bringing up a nation of sheep!
also they belive that bringing in uniform and dress code will calm behavior, however on a recent school trip to see romeo & juliet the whole auditorium was full of schools and we were the only ones out of uniform and yet we were the best behaved
wheres the sense in that??? i know for a fact that many people are not happy about these rules. Including the students and parents (I think some teachers aswell but they cant say for fear of being fired) Resulting from this a whole school protest is being planned, were not the kinda kids who like to get trampled on, we speak up if needs be
so just wondering what your views on this are???
What to do in case of fire??? LET IT BURN!
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
I'm a pro-uniform person and I do believe that it helps to eliminate bullying. Sure, bullies will always find something to pick on people for, but I don't think that's any reason for limiting their options.
And I don't see how cloning comes into this at all. The result of schools with uniforms is not mindless clones running around. In some ways it can help individuality by helping people to express it in different ways; less superficial ways than fashion.
Schools are about education and not the latest fashions and I don't see anything wrong with this being enforced.
And they don't give people the ideology that people always have to be the same in the "real world" at all! My school had very strict uniform laws and I still turned out to be the class hippy!
Another way to think about it is membership. Uniforms can also be used as form of identity with the school, very similar to the way fashions are a form of identity with a certain social group.
Oh, and please note that while I was in the lower years in highschool I was very anti-uniform, but as I got older (and therefore more into the things that are really important) I realised uniforms aren't so bad after all. And if you were to look at me now, I doubt you'd say that I'm just some school clone who was being marched down a corridor.
Schools aren't democracies. Never were. Never will be.
I'm a pro-uniform person and I do believe that it helps to eliminate bullying. Sure, bullies will always find something to pick on people for, but I don't think that's any reason for limiting their options.
And I don't see how cloning comes into this at all. The result of schools with uniforms is not mindless clones running around. In some ways it can help individuality by helping people to express it in different ways; less superficial ways than fashion.
Schools are about education and not the latest fashions and I don't see anything wrong with this being enforced.
And they don't give people the ideology that people always have to be the same in the "real world" at all! My school had very strict uniform laws and I still turned out to be the class hippy!
Another way to think about it is membership. Uniforms can also be used as form of identity with the school, very similar to the way fashions are a form of identity with a certain social group.
Oh, and please note that while I was in the lower years in highschool I was very anti-uniform, but as I got older (and therefore more into the things that are really important) I realised uniforms aren't so bad after all. And if you were to look at me now, I doubt you'd say that I'm just some school clone who was being marched down a corridor.
Schools aren't democracies. Never were. Never will be.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
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Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
to be honest the only lee way we got at school was our tie, school colours, house colours, or county or national colours...
we weren't originally allowed hair to touch our collars (but that got wiped out) nor "extreme" hair styles.
we had to wear a blazer black trousers (not grey) black shoes, white shirt we were only allowed to remove blazers with permission or on breaks.
I can understand the no electronics as they can be a distraction and can be viewed as a position of status (who has the best phone) but that can go with anything.
uniform never bothered me the plus side was that I always knew what I was going to wear
didn't get looked down on because we were so poor I couldn't afford anything remotely high quality (in a school full of doctors and lawyers sons) to be honest I think instilling a notion of how to dress smart will help in later life, Idon't always dress smart, but I won't complain if I have to, I don't see why wearing a uniform is a problem.
if you can't stand out from a crowd when your dressed the same you just aren't trying hard enough individuality isn't just what you wear it's how you think and behave.
to be honest the only lee way we got at school was our tie, school colours, house colours, or county or national colours...
we weren't originally allowed hair to touch our collars (but that got wiped out) nor "extreme" hair styles.
we had to wear a blazer black trousers (not grey) black shoes, white shirt we were only allowed to remove blazers with permission or on breaks.
I can understand the no electronics as they can be a distraction and can be viewed as a position of status (who has the best phone) but that can go with anything.
uniform never bothered me the plus side was that I always knew what I was going to wear
didn't get looked down on because we were so poor I couldn't afford anything remotely high quality (in a school full of doctors and lawyers sons) to be honest I think instilling a notion of how to dress smart will help in later life, Idon't always dress smart, but I won't complain if I have to, I don't see why wearing a uniform is a problem. if you can't stand out from a crowd when your dressed the same you just aren't trying hard enough individuality isn't just what you wear it's how you think and behave.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,172 posts
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,172 posts
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom
Posted:
Schools have always been like this, and will be like this for a long time.
Its nothing new!
The un-popular kids in school will still be the unpopular kid in school whether they're in their home clothes or their school uniform IMO.
I dont know about you but no make up, no accesories, no electronics was pretty much bog standard in my secondry school.
However, rules were there to be broken
Schools have always been like this, and will be like this for a long time.
Its nothing new!
The un-popular kids in school will still be the unpopular kid in school whether they're in their home clothes or their school uniform IMO.
I dont know about you but no make up, no accesories, no electronics was pretty much bog standard in my secondry school.
However, rules were there to be broken
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
I don't know what you'd NEED accessories, make up and electronics for at school, but I am against uniforms, based on the fact that I never wore one and wouldn't want my children to (read: this would be a reason for me to go back and educate potential offspring in Germany). I feel sorry for 4- or 5-y-olds dressed up in uniforms - they should be colourful and bouncy and not all look the same. Noone in my year got bullied because of their clothes, and you can very obviously tell if someone's parents have money if you look at their "standard" type shoes, if you care about that sort of thing. We were allowed make up and jewellery and all that (hell, some people took their RATS to school and let them look out of their pockets in lessons), and I don't think it ever caused a problem in the 9 years I spent there.
Re the schools are about education, not the latest fashion - true, but then we should introduce uniforms for all jobs except the ones where fashion is all-important. Few people would claim that not wearing uniforms at uni, or in a factory, or in parliament, or indeed in school but by teachers and cleaners and headmasters distracts people from their jobs.
I don't know what you'd NEED accessories, make up and electronics for at school, but I am against uniforms, based on the fact that I never wore one and wouldn't want my children to (read: this would be a reason for me to go back and educate potential offspring in Germany). I feel sorry for 4- or 5-y-olds dressed up in uniforms - they should be colourful and bouncy and not all look the same. Noone in my year got bullied because of their clothes, and you can very obviously tell if someone's parents have money if you look at their "standard" type shoes, if you care about that sort of thing. We were allowed make up and jewellery and all that (hell, some people took their RATS to school and let them look out of their pockets in lessons), and I don't think it ever caused a problem in the 9 years I spent there.
Re the schools are about education, not the latest fashion - true, but then we should introduce uniforms for all jobs except the ones where fashion is all-important. Few people would claim that not wearing uniforms at uni, or in a factory, or in parliament, or indeed in school but by teachers and cleaners and headmasters distracts people from their jobs.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Something Brigit reminded me of is something that our teachers used to tell us when we whinged;
they have to wear uniforms too. In the sense that they have to adhere to professional dress codes.
And think about all those business men in suits, or "IBM uniform" as I have often heard it called.
ooh! and Brigit; when my mum was in highschool it was fashionable to to have a mouse in the top blazer pocket!
Something Brigit reminded me of is something that our teachers used to tell us when we whinged;
they have to wear uniforms too. In the sense that they have to adhere to professional dress codes.
And think about all those business men in suits, or "IBM uniform" as I have often heard it called.
ooh! and Brigit; when my mum was in highschool it was fashionable to to have a mouse in the top blazer pocket!
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
GOLD Member
newbie
35 posts
Location: Sendai City, Japan
newbie
35 posts
Location: Sendai City, Japan
Posted:
I'm pro-uniform too. It's hard for schools to maintain discipline these days and the addition of a uniform makes it easier.
Sure, I used to rage against that machine daily, but after teaching in a high school for a year I can definitely see the sense in it.
Thanks. That's gonna be my new work email signature.
I'm pro-uniform too. It's hard for schools to maintain discipline these days and the addition of a uniform makes it easier.
Sure, I used to rage against that machine daily, but after teaching in a high school for a year I can definitely see the sense in it.
Written by: Rouge Dragon
Schools aren't democracies. Never were. Never will be.
Thanks. That's gonna be my new work email signature.
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
I wore uniforms for eight years...you still find a way to individualize it. Our mothers might have rolled their skirts-my mom laughed when she found out I did too. Hair could not be distracting-no wild colors. Only thing that wasn't regulated was underpants.
Working at a bank, you wear a uniform generally. Fast food, some retail. Uniforms are everywhere.
If your personality is so intertwined with what you wear, then IMO, you really need to look at why that is.
I wore uniforms for eight years...you still find a way to individualize it. Our mothers might have rolled their skirts-my mom laughed when she found out I did too. Hair could not be distracting-no wild colors. Only thing that wasn't regulated was underpants.
Working at a bank, you wear a uniform generally. Fast food, some retail. Uniforms are everywhere.
If your personality is so intertwined with what you wear, then IMO, you really need to look at why that is.
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Internet Hate Machine
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Posted:
Try going to public school and boarding mate.
No fun.
Ever.
At any given time.
Yay
Try going to public school and boarding mate.
No fun.
Ever.
At any given time.
Yay
The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
So what would be wrong with dresscodes for students instead of uniforms? That does sound like a typical "teacher to student" back-whinge. Seriously, there is more than one type of appropriate clothing for children, and if they were all allowed I wouldn't have a problem with the rules.
To me, uniforms are for the military, and people who need to be recognised as working in a place where it's important you find the right person straight away (say a train conductor, policeman or someone who can show you where to find stuff in a supermarket). If a school is that bad/unfriendly that pupils need uniforms to identify with it, then the dresscode is unlikely to be the main problem.
I can only compare Britain amd "back home in Germany", where we didn't get people in uniforms in banks, the council, even many buses. I've never walked into a bank and didn't realise that the person behind the counter not wearing a uniform wasn't an employee. And even IBM Uniform Men weren't all wearing the same shades of light blue and pink as they do here, and I don't think it has as yet seriously harmed how businesses are run.
For schools, a (very) few of them (usually in areas where there is lots of bullying) have now introduced "uniform" style things. However, they are a choice of clothes of the same colour scheme to pick from, and not suit and tie style, but t-shirts and jumpers etc. I really don't think it's necessary for primary kids to wear ties every day.
End of rant
So what would be wrong with dresscodes for students instead of uniforms? That does sound like a typical "teacher to student" back-whinge. Seriously, there is more than one type of appropriate clothing for children, and if they were all allowed I wouldn't have a problem with the rules.
To me, uniforms are for the military, and people who need to be recognised as working in a place where it's important you find the right person straight away (say a train conductor, policeman or someone who can show you where to find stuff in a supermarket). If a school is that bad/unfriendly that pupils need uniforms to identify with it, then the dresscode is unlikely to be the main problem.
I can only compare Britain amd "back home in Germany", where we didn't get people in uniforms in banks, the council, even many buses. I've never walked into a bank and didn't realise that the person behind the counter not wearing a uniform wasn't an employee. And even IBM Uniform Men weren't all wearing the same shades of light blue and pink as they do here, and I don't think it has as yet seriously harmed how businesses are run.
For schools, a (very) few of them (usually in areas where there is lots of bullying) have now introduced "uniform" style things. However, they are a choice of clothes of the same colour scheme to pick from, and not suit and tie style, but t-shirts and jumpers etc. I really don't think it's necessary for primary kids to wear ties every day.
End of rant
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
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Macaque of all trades
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Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Thats because your school sucks Henry have they learnt to play rugby yet 
Written by: Fine_Rabid_Dog
Try going to public school and boarding mate.
No fun.
Ever.
At any given time.
Yay
Thats because your school sucks Henry
have they learnt to play rugby yet A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
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Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
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Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
My school quoted the uniform issue as a way for you to be associated with the school,
when you finished school you had to wear your full uniform home so you could be recognised if anything happened to you (safety) or if you did anything. we were told we were ambassadors of our school until we got home and changed. so anything we did, good or bad was reflected back at our school we would be less likely to do bad things if we were instantly recognisable (we could change but that's a lot of effort)
also school trips in uniform a teacher can spot you much easier. it's just teaching kids to obey another rule
Written by: Birgit
To me, uniforms are for the military, and people who need to be recognised as working in a place where it's important you find the right person straight away (say a train conductor, policeman or someone who can show you where to find stuff in a supermarket). If a school is that bad/unfriendly that pupils need uniforms to identify with it, then the dresscode is unlikely to be the main problem.
My school quoted the uniform issue as a way for you to be associated with the school,
when you finished school you had to wear your full uniform home so you could be recognised if anything happened to you (safety) or if you did anything. we were told we were ambassadors of our school until we got home and changed. so anything we did, good or bad was reflected back at our school we would be less likely to do bad things if we were instantly recognisable (we could change but that's a lot of effort)
also school trips in uniform a teacher can spot you much easier. it's just teaching kids to obey another rule
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
I guess that's what it is. Still my hypothetical children won't be wearing a uniform unless they decide that they want to.
Are there lots of state schools in the UK where it's not mandatory? The only non-uniform schools I know about are the Steiner schools, and they teach way too much metaphysical nonsense for my taste if they're anything like the German ones
Written by: Mynci
it's just teaching kids to obey another rule
I guess that's what it is. Still my hypothetical children won't be wearing a uniform unless they decide that they want to.
Are there lots of state schools in the UK where it's not mandatory? The only non-uniform schools I know about are the Steiner schools, and they teach way too much metaphysical nonsense for my taste if they're anything like the German ones
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
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Posted:
I reckon if you look at school league tables the top GCSE schools all have uniforms and aren't public / private. I don't know if it's true, but it was when I did my GCSE's because i knew most of them as 4 from the top 10 were in my london borough
I reckon if you look at school league tables the top GCSE schools all have uniforms and aren't public / private. I don't know if it's true, but it was when I did my GCSE's because i knew most of them as 4 from the top 10 were in my london borough
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Yeah, fair enough, but when you look at how many football thugs have worn uniforms in schools (on the pre-condition that you only look at the ones who went to *A* school, whatever their clothing rules were), you'll probably find that it's over 90%, too. If the vast majority of schools have a uniform policy, then you can associate anything and everything with the uniforms (a bit like the pirates and the climate change on the pastafarian website). Indeed one might say that being taught from age 5 to wear a uniform and conform and follow a rule just because it's there can increase the chance of people just following someone else's orders later, though personally I wouldn't go that far.
It would be interesting to see how many of the top 10 schools for bullying, knifing, pupils' parties with ambulance attendance etc have uniforms.
Yeah, fair enough, but when you look at how many football thugs have worn uniforms in schools (on the pre-condition that you only look at the ones who went to *A* school, whatever their clothing rules were), you'll probably find that it's over 90%, too. If the vast majority of schools have a uniform policy, then you can associate anything and everything with the uniforms (a bit like the pirates and the climate change on the pastafarian website). Indeed one might say that being taught from age 5 to wear a uniform and conform and follow a rule just because it's there can increase the chance of people just following someone else's orders later, though personally I wouldn't go that far.
It would be interesting to see how many of the top 10 schools for bullying, knifing, pupils' parties with ambulance attendance etc have uniforms.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
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Posted:
I was refering to your aim to send your child to a chool without uniforms, could that 1 factor detriment a childs education if a better school (generally) had a uniform would you send you child to a school that was reputedly "worse" based on the fact your child wouldn't have to wear a uniform? (not fair after what you said about germany my dear but a valid question)
I was refering to your aim to send your child to a chool without uniforms, could that 1 factor detriment a childs education if a better school (generally) had a uniform would you send you child to a school that was reputedly "worse" based on the fact your child wouldn't have to wear a uniform? (not fair after what you said about germany my dear but a valid question)
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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Posted:
At the school I used to go to (and we weren't *that* bad at Rugby
) we'd be in uniform during school hours, and then afterwards, during "free time", we'd get into "casuals".
At no point whilst we were in casuals would there be any "bullying" related to the clothes that were worn. I used to wear pretty alternative stuff back in the day (red camoflaged trousers, once or twice) and I caught no flak for it.
I don't think uniform effects us kids that badly. It is a dumb rule, but I don't think its one you can really do much about, except not send your kid there.
At the school I used to go to (and we weren't *that* bad at Rugby
) we'd be in uniform during school hours, and then afterwards, during "free time", we'd get into "casuals".At no point whilst we were in casuals would there be any "bullying" related to the clothes that were worn. I used to wear pretty alternative stuff back in the day (red camoflaged trousers, once or twice
) and I caught no flak for it.I don't think uniform effects us kids that badly. It is a dumb rule, but I don't think its one you can really do much about, except not send your kid there.
The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Good point. However, I just checked, and according to the government website, 98% of secondary schools say their students must wear uniforms.
www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_protection/oft865.pdf
In that case the 10/10 would be a consequence of statistics more than anything else.
But if I had to choose between a school that's top 10 and would make a child wear a uniform against the child's will, and one out of the top 500 that wouldn't, I'd go for the top 500 one - I think happiness and feeling free in your choices are more important than being in the top top top of the top.
Obviously if the only school in my area without uniform was one with crap teachers, equipment and lots of crime I wouldn't consider it (also not if a non-uniform school meant a long way to get there and back every day and kids being away from their nursery friends).
But yeah, in general I'd prefer the German system anyway I think. Less afternoon school, too, and kids get some time to play and have hobbies before 4 pm, and no supervised homework or any of that. And you're free to go wherever you want in your lunch break if you do have afternoon school, without having to ask for permission. It's probably whatever you grow up with that you later think was a good idea...
Good point. However, I just checked, and according to the government website, 98% of secondary schools say their students must wear uniforms.
www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_protection/oft865.pdf
In that case the 10/10 would be a consequence of statistics more than anything else.
But if I had to choose between a school that's top 10 and would make a child wear a uniform against the child's will, and one out of the top 500 that wouldn't, I'd go for the top 500 one - I think happiness and feeling free in your choices are more important than being in the top top top of the top.
Obviously if the only school in my area without uniform was one with crap teachers, equipment and lots of crime I wouldn't consider it (also not if a non-uniform school meant a long way to get there and back every day and kids being away from their nursery friends).
But yeah, in general I'd prefer the German system anyway I think. Less afternoon school, too, and kids get some time to play and have hobbies before 4 pm, and no supervised homework or any of that. And you're free to go wherever you want in your lunch break if you do have afternoon school, without having to ask for permission. It's probably whatever you grow up with that you later think was a good idea...
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Internet Hate Machine
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Posted:
Man...
I wish I had a parent who thinks like that
Man...
I wish I had a parent who thinks like that
The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
I can adopt you Then I can make sure that at least one of my heirs will play with fire!
I can adopt you
Then I can make sure that at least one of my heirs will play with fire! "vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I used to be anti-uniform until I came to a realization: in some schools, fashion becomes a major war.
I work in the Bronx, which has a rather hip-hop style of dress. But a given outfit can cost hundreds of dollars. It's always brand-spanking new. The shoes are expensive and spotless. The brand names are always splayed across the over-baggy (men) or entirely-too-tight (women) clothing. The uniformity is hilarious. Men: Oversized flat-brimmed ball cap with sticker on the bill, hair cut short, in a pony tail, or corn rows, over-sized Tee that may work in coordination with the colors of the outfit (gang colors often), over-sized trousers, and brand-new sneakers. A few medallions and chains and voila!...90% of young people in the Bronx.
A school uniform has been shown to improve behavior and it probably reduces clothing costs because of this.
I used to be anti-uniform until I came to a realization: in some schools, fashion becomes a major war.
I work in the Bronx, which has a rather hip-hop style of dress. But a given outfit can cost hundreds of dollars. It's always brand-spanking new. The shoes are expensive and spotless. The brand names are always splayed across the over-baggy (men) or entirely-too-tight (women) clothing. The uniformity is hilarious. Men: Oversized flat-brimmed ball cap with sticker on the bill, hair cut short, in a pony tail, or corn rows, over-sized Tee that may work in coordination with the colors of the outfit (gang colors often), over-sized trousers, and brand-new sneakers. A few medallions and chains and voila!...90% of young people in the Bronx.
A school uniform has been shown to improve behavior and it probably reduces clothing costs because of this.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
and less underwears gets shown...
the shoes alone can cost a couple hundred...and when they get dirty they want new ones
and less underwears gets shown...
the shoes alone can cost a couple hundred...and when they get dirty they want new ones
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
SILVER Member
Member
32 posts
Location: Canada
Member
32 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
I'm just finishing my my bachelor of education-and believe classroom managment has nothing to do with the freedom of wearing accessories and dying your hair a bright colour. I think as long as the clothes are not offensive, revealing, or harmful, then students can wear whatever they like. I've always worn strange things-anywhere from large wallet chains with huge glow in the dark stars hanging off them-to second hand oddities in thrift stores-I simply enjoy being non-mainstream, and there is nothing wrong with that. We should teach acceptance and tolerance-and ignore fads that students are going through. Adolescence is about discovering ones identity.
I'm just finishing my my bachelor of education-and believe classroom managment has nothing to do with the freedom of wearing accessories and dying your hair a bright colour. I think as long as the clothes are not offensive, revealing, or harmful, then students can wear whatever they like. I've always worn strange things-anywhere from large wallet chains with huge glow in the dark stars hanging off them-to second hand oddities in thrift stores-I simply enjoy being non-mainstream, and there is nothing wrong with that. We should teach acceptance and tolerance-and ignore fads that students are going through. Adolescence is about discovering ones identity.
SILVER Member
Member
32 posts
Location: Canada
Member
32 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
p.s.
cell phones and ipods in the classroom... that equals a definate NO for me. There's just no need for them.
p.s.
cell phones and ipods in the classroom... that equals a definate NO for me. There's just no need for them.
SILVER Member
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
There's another reason schools want kids to wear uniforms - school pride. Having kids running around (on their way home etc) wearing fancy uniforms helps people recognise the school and it affects its reputation.
And yes, it's definitely about suppressing individuality. Do you think Hitler let his troops express their individuality by wearing funky clothes? It's all about power... by giving people the power to dress however they like, you have less power over them. Dying your hair red etc. is a way of saying "you can't control me, i can do and look the way I want" and that means that schools have less control over the kids. Bosses also use this as a way to bring their employees into line - not wearing a suit and tie isn't just a way of expressing individuality - it's a sign of rebellion.
While you might still be able to express yourself without wearing different clothes, the psychological factor of everyone looking similar is always going to have an effect (and Rouge Dragon, you may be the exception rather than the rule... also your dress-sense now might even be a rebound).
It has nothing to do with bullying, and everything to do with suppressing individuality and teacher/student power struggles.
Also if people are stupid enough to spend all their money on fashion, that's their problem, not the schools.
There's another reason schools want kids to wear uniforms - school pride. Having kids running around (on their way home etc) wearing fancy uniforms helps people recognise the school and it affects its reputation.
And yes, it's definitely about suppressing individuality. Do you think Hitler let his troops express their individuality by wearing funky clothes? It's all about power... by giving people the power to dress however they like, you have less power over them. Dying your hair red etc. is a way of saying "you can't control me, i can do and look the way I want" and that means that schools have less control over the kids. Bosses also use this as a way to bring their employees into line - not wearing a suit and tie isn't just a way of expressing individuality - it's a sign of rebellion.
While you might still be able to express yourself without wearing different clothes, the psychological factor of everyone looking similar is always going to have an effect (and Rouge Dragon, you may be the exception rather than the rule... also your dress-sense now might even be a rebound).
It has nothing to do with bullying, and everything to do with suppressing individuality and teacher/student power struggles.
Also if people are stupid enough to spend all their money on fashion, that's their problem, not the schools.
GOLD Member
newbie
35 posts
Location: Sendai City, Japan
newbie
35 posts
Location: Sendai City, Japan
Posted:
Another major reason that schools enforce uniform is so that when the kids are on their way home they are identifiable as school kids. This means that they're easier to identify if they cause trouble anywhere, and shops will be less likely to sell them cigarettes/alcohol if they try to buy them.
Another major reason that schools enforce uniform is so that when the kids are on their way home they are identifiable as school kids. This means that they're easier to identify if they cause trouble anywhere, and shops will be less likely to sell them cigarettes/alcohol if they try to buy them.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
My dress sense now isn't a rebound from highschool; it's as a result of my upbringing from my family to do with individuality.
However even if it was a rebound, then surely instilling a desire for individuality is a good thing?
Written by: PsyRush
and Rouge Dragon, you may be the exception rather than the rule... also your dress-sense now might even be a rebound
My dress sense now isn't a rebound from highschool; it's as a result of my upbringing from my family to do with individuality.
However even if it was a rebound, then surely instilling a desire for individuality is a good thing?
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
uniforms make it easy to spot non-student drug-dealers, bullies, thieves etc..
Even in the short time I've been teaching Ive seen the benefits of school uniforms.
at least the school uniform is generally good quality / warm / hard wearing etc.
IMHO Kids are already way too obsessed with their appearance - why give them another superficial thing to obsess over?
Dress standards and guidelines almost never work - because if its not a rule, then its open to interpretation - and if its open to interpretation and your dealing with adolescents - well you might as well not have a guideline at all, you will spend your entire day trying to enforce the unenforcable.
uniforms make it easy to spot non-student drug-dealers, bullies, thieves etc..
Even in the short time I've been teaching Ive seen the benefits of school uniforms.
at least the school uniform is generally good quality / warm / hard wearing etc.
IMHO Kids are already way too obsessed with their appearance - why give them another superficial thing to obsess over?
Dress standards and guidelines almost never work - because if its not a rule, then its open to interpretation - and if its open to interpretation and your dealing with adolescents - well you might as well not have a guideline at all, you will spend your entire day trying to enforce the unenforcable.
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
and as I said before if clothing suppresses your individuality your just not shining hard enough how can anything mass produced make you an individual..it's what you do that counts not what you wear
Written by: PsyRush
And yes, it's definitely about suppressing individuality.
and as I said before if clothing suppresses your individuality your just not shining hard enough
how can anything mass produced make you an individual..it's what you do that counts not what you wear A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
GOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Posted:
Uniforms in school or anywhere else are there to level the playing field. It's there to say 'you are not better than him/her because you have expensive bling Reeboks and you are better than him/her because your mohawk is bigger than his/hers. It should encourage you to socialise with potentially anyone and judge others purely on how they TREAT you instead of causing segregation.
Example - From an alternative point of view, how many times have your or heard other mosher types point and laugh at someone because they dared to like Limp Bizkit instead of REAL METAL like Opeth or the current vogue of Emo-bashing, Emos getting more bile and vitriol from the rock fraternity than they do from the mainstream. As much I loved being a mosher in my younger days it really saddens me than a subculture who prides itself on individuality and open-mindedness can be more capable of of spiteful, all-consuming intolerance.
If you argue that wearing what you want is a basic right, what's to stop kids coming to school in KKK / Nazi uniforms or thongs and leather hotpants and argue that it's them expressing their individuality?
If you place so much importance in what you wear, does this mean that this is how YOU judge other people? There's plenty of time left during the day to wear what you want and enjoy yourself. I agree with others that uniforms actually encourage individuality by having a 'norm' to move away from. Something that is very much evident in your post.
I myself like being creative with what I wear but it's probably the least important thing about me and prefer to worry about if I'm an intelligent, compassionate, hard-working, proactive individual. And a better spinner than I am now.
As for having a protest? Jesus Christ... If you want to protest about something, there are far more causes worthy of protesting for, global warming, humans rights injustices etc.
Be thankful you live in a country where you can afford to buy the clothes you want whilst kids in Third World countries DREAM of having nothing more than a decent standard of education that will give them the necessary skills to progress in later life. Because in the end isn't that you're going to school for? Education, not a fashion show.
As for iPods, mobiles and PSPs in schools, put it this way - if a work colleague spent his day playing on his PSP, gabbing on his phone and being distracted by his music he'd be needing some forceps to remove them from where I intend to put them...
Uniforms in school or anywhere else are there to level the playing field. It's there to say 'you are not better than him/her because you have expensive bling Reeboks and you are better than him/her because your mohawk is bigger than his/hers. It should encourage you to socialise with potentially anyone and judge others purely on how they TREAT you instead of causing segregation.
Example - From an alternative point of view, how many times have your or heard other mosher types point and laugh at someone because they dared to like Limp Bizkit instead of REAL METAL like Opeth or the current vogue of Emo-bashing, Emos getting more bile and vitriol from the rock fraternity than they do from the mainstream. As much I loved being a mosher in my younger days it really saddens me than a subculture who prides itself on individuality and open-mindedness can be more capable of of spiteful, all-consuming intolerance.
If you argue that wearing what you want is a basic right, what's to stop kids coming to school in KKK / Nazi uniforms or thongs and leather hotpants and argue that it's them expressing their individuality?
If you place so much importance in what you wear, does this mean that this is how YOU judge other people? There's plenty of time left during the day to wear what you want and enjoy yourself. I agree with others that uniforms actually encourage individuality by having a 'norm' to move away from. Something that is very much evident in your post.
I myself like being creative with what I wear but it's probably the least important thing about me and prefer to worry about if I'm an intelligent, compassionate, hard-working, proactive individual. And a better spinner than I am now.
As for having a protest? Jesus Christ... If you want to protest about something, there are far more causes worthy of protesting for, global warming, humans rights injustices etc.
Be thankful you live in a country where you can afford to buy the clothes you want whilst kids in Third World countries DREAM of having nothing more than a decent standard of education that will give them the necessary skills to progress in later life. Because in the end isn't that you're going to school for? Education, not a fashion show.
As for iPods, mobiles and PSPs in schools, put it this way - if a work colleague spent his day playing on his PSP, gabbing on his phone and being distracted by his music he'd be needing some forceps to remove them from where I intend to put them...
"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Yeah, like the kids aren't gonna be able to tell who's emo just from the hairstyle and knowing what their classmates do and listen to after school.
Show me one case where a kid in the Bronx, or a fascist kid, or a misogynist, or a snobby kid, has turned to the poor kid with the bad dress sense outside school who can't afford to go to the cinema or have a mobile and has the wrong hair colour, skin colour or gender "sure, you can hang out with us because our uniforms make us all equals" and I'll believe you.
Kids know what their classmates get up to after school. They still wear the same clothes they would otherwise wear in school when they go out in the evening or at the weekends, and yes, they'll still have the same flashy accessories, and go on more expensive holidays, and buy a Wii and 20 games with it, and everyone will still know about it, and that the other kid's parents are just unemployed or cleaners and that's why their hair looks shabbier and they have cheaper shoes with their uniform, they can't bring their own expensive basketball to play at lunchbreak and get their lunches paid for by the state, and they don't have their own car as soon as they're old enough for a licence, thank you very much.
Nazi uniforms? That's what uniform kids wear in the evenings, see Prince Harry. Apart from that, it's a long way from sensible clothes rules to uniforms.
Certainly at my school noone ever turned out with a Nazi or KKK uniform, or in hotpants (though some girls did for PE, but then that's their own problem). You don't have to believe me though, and I'm out of here now and off to good old Germania where Hitler used to live (can he not please be left out of one single involved debate, by the way? It's like there's a secret scoring system and whoever mentions Hitler and Nazis first gets 100 extra)
And no, appearance isn't that important to me (as anyone who's ever met me can probably confirm), which is why I don't want it regulated. Hey, why don't we introduce uniforms for clubs so that the poor guys will be let in, too, and have a chance of pulling the pretty girls who'll only go with the rich guys? Surely they're disadvantaged! Make everyone at school wear hats and burkas so that people won't get discriminated for being ginger or having dark skin anymore. Wheee!
Neon, if the money that was put into school uniforms on top of normal clothes to wear in the enough time that there apparently is for it were sent to the third world, how cool would that be (if we have to resign to Nazi AND Third World arguments)?
Yeah, like the kids aren't gonna be able to tell who's emo just from the hairstyle and knowing what their classmates do and listen to after school.
Show me one case where a kid in the Bronx, or a fascist kid, or a misogynist, or a snobby kid, has turned to the poor kid with the bad dress sense outside school who can't afford to go to the cinema or have a mobile and has the wrong hair colour, skin colour or gender "sure, you can hang out with us because our uniforms make us all equals" and I'll believe you.
Kids know what their classmates get up to after school. They still wear the same clothes they would otherwise wear in school when they go out in the evening or at the weekends, and yes, they'll still have the same flashy accessories, and go on more expensive holidays, and buy a Wii and 20 games with it, and everyone will still know about it, and that the other kid's parents are just unemployed or cleaners and that's why their hair looks shabbier and they have cheaper shoes with their uniform, they can't bring their own expensive basketball to play at lunchbreak and get their lunches paid for by the state, and they don't have their own car as soon as they're old enough for a licence, thank you very much.
Nazi uniforms? That's what uniform kids wear in the evenings, see Prince Harry. Apart from that, it's a long way from sensible clothes rules to uniforms.
Certainly at my school noone ever turned out with a Nazi or KKK uniform, or in hotpants (though some girls did for PE, but then that's their own problem). You don't have to believe me though, and I'm out of here now and off to good old Germania where Hitler used to live (can he not please be left out of one single involved debate, by the way? It's like there's a secret scoring system and whoever mentions Hitler and Nazis first gets 100 extra)
And no, appearance isn't that important to me (as anyone who's ever met me can probably confirm), which is why I don't want it regulated. Hey, why don't we introduce uniforms for clubs so that the poor guys will be let in, too, and have a chance of pulling the pretty girls who'll only go with the rich guys? Surely they're disadvantaged! Make everyone at school wear hats and burkas so that people won't get discriminated for being ginger or having dark skin anymore. Wheee!
Neon, if the money that was put into school uniforms on top of normal clothes to wear in the enough time that there apparently is for it were sent to the third world, how cool would that be (if we have to resign to Nazi AND Third World arguments)?
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
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