Forums > Social Discussion > banned from the USA, for teaching poi workshops?
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272 posts
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Some of you may know that I was banned from the USA a couple years back for teaching poi workshops without a work visa (and for lying about my reasons for entering the USA).
I posted the explanation on HOP and on my blog afterwards, but then removed them on the advice of a lawyer. I've now put the info on my webiste again:
See America's #1 poi outlaw
Some people have expressed curiosity, so there you go.
It was hard at the time and a big financial blow to the head, but I'm now happily exploring the rest of the world
n
"They're interdimensional fractal intelligences. That's why they wear funny shoes."
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
I'm not sure what you're going for here. You lied and broke US immigration law. Isn't it unsurprising you became banned?
EDIT For clarification purposes: I'm not suggesting Meenik is looking for sympathy. I have every sympathy for him, he's a nice fellow. I think US visa law IS unwise in places. I disagree with some of his actions in the past here on moral grounds. I think Meenik's post was probably purely informative, but I was interested in clarification of intent.
Written by: Meenik
I decided to tell immigration that I was visiting friends...
...I was teaching unauthorized poi workshops
EDITED_BY: jeff(fake) (1162295887)
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
At jeff: i usually have alot of respect for you and your post's but that's a bit harsh and out of context dude, he pointed out previous to those statements that it was expensive and difficult, if not impossible, to get a work visa for the type of work he was doing.
At Nick: That's kinda crappy dude, come to Australia, we'll have you! we're much nicer than stinky americans. i think. i don't know imigration laws, but i think it's not too hard to get a working visa here.
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
organic creation
246 posts
Location: earth, Wales (UK)
in my opinion the 4-5 year ban seems a bit harsh. i hope things work out for you in the end.
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Written by: FoxInDocs
At jeff: i usually have alot of respect for you and your post's but that's a bit harsh and out of context dude, he pointed out previous to those statements that it was expensive and difficult, if not impossible, to get a work visa for the type of work he was doing.
I don't think it's either harsh or out of context. Mennix lied, and he broke the law. That's the crux of the matter. If it was an expensive and difficult line of work, then it was a bad idea to be doing it. If I had to lie and break the law to do a job, I wouldn't do the job.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
what if the law was unjust? and the job was worthy?
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Perhaps. Is teaching a poi workshop worthy of deciet?
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
is teaching or sharing knowledge? Why do you juggle anyway?
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
I don't accept that this some holy knowledge that is worth lieing to spread.
EDITED_BY: jeff(fake) (1162291884)
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
thankyou mcp.
medicine's an expensive and difficult line of work too, is it a bad idea to become a doctor?
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Do you need to lie and break the law to do medicine?
Do you routinely save lives with poi?
You're going to need to accept that I think gratuitous lying and law breaking is generally wrong. Why so hostile to my opinions on the matter?
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
I've lied to do the same. And less. Lots less, lots of times and for no reason usually.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
I agree with Jeff...
It sucks that it's so difficult for small artists to get that visa, Nick, but I guess that if you tell a lie to immigration and get caught that's what happens
I'm not saying it's nice, but the "unsurprising" is definitely right.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
why aggressively post a angry reply then? Everybody loves nick, at least if you spin poi, and he wasn't posting it for sympathy, but for information purposes? If you act like an idiot to one of the pillars of the spinning community, this is what happens.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
I'm angry?
I said it was unsurprising that be got banned given what he did.
Yes, the law could do with changing. Yes, I do feel sympathy.
But it is also my personal opinion that what he did wasn't right.
EDITED_BY: jeff(fake) (1162294274)
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
"I'm not sure what you're going for here. You lied and broke US immigration law. Isn't it unsurprising you became banned? "
Is aggressive.
Sounds angry.
Remember the idea of the internet not conveying tone or facial expression and such like? That's why we have smileys and have to take our time when writing posts to make sure they convey what we want them too.
Not me obviously, cos I don't give a [censored].
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
I wasn't angry or aggressive, that's what you've read into it.
Right now I'm reading anger and aggression in your posts, but I accept that could well be due to my own misinterpration.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
I definitely see both sides of this arguement.
Meg. If if one of your best friends (pillar of the community or not) was doing/has done something stupid wouldn't you tell him so or will you forever remain a sycophant?
Though Jeff, Nick wasn't posting it for sympathy, just informing people of why he hasn't been visiting the USA lately. So though your comment though valid was a bit moot by that point.
Bottom line is that Nick was attempting to earn money under unlawful circumstances. He got caught, he learned, he even said 'it showed me a lot about honesty, responsibility'.
So LET that be a lesson to you kids!
"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
but i think the most important lesson learned here is that everyone should forget about going to the US and come to australia instead
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
the point still stands. If you want to be clear, clearly state what tone of voice your using. Haven't you been in this situation already jeff?
If you read a post by NYC you don't assume it's going to be light and fluffy, you assume it's going to be sarcastic or whiney. Or both. When you read a post by jeff you assume it's going to be argumentative and aggressive. Simple as.
neon: you answered your own post for me thanks.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Written by: Neon_Juxtaposeur
Though Jeff, Nick wasn't posting it for sympathy, just informing people of why he hasn't been visiting the USA lately. So though your comment though valid was a bit moot by that point.
I never suggested he did!
He printed a purely factual story, without any request for sympathy.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
I will next year
If the PhD doesn't kill me first that is!And for the smiley use, I think this one's most appropriate here:
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
just chilllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
sip smoothies in satisfaction everyone.
k?
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Written by: jeff(fake)
I'm not sure what you're going for here. You lied and broke US immigration law. Isn't it unsurprising you became banned?Written by: Meenik
I decided to tell immigration that I was visiting friends...
...I was teaching unauthorized poi workshops
nick quite clearly stated in his first post what he was 'going for' - "Some people have expressed curiosity".
he put it back up to inform others.
nowhere did he even suggest that he was suprised to be banned from the u.s.
i've been asked to go to america to teach workshops but now i know that its not even a vague possibility that i could do it legally.
you act as if all this information is obvious and is not of any value.
just because you are not interested in what restrictions there are in giving poi workshops abroad (probably because as you stated, you would never even consider getting into a line of work that is at all "difficult"), does not mean that nick's experience is without value to the many people that do want to contribute to the international community.
my question is, what exactly are YOU going for here jeff...?
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Jeff, if you know he wasn't asking for sympathy, what was the purpose of your opening salvo then...?
Meg: Did I...? Cool...I think... Do I? My head hurts...
"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Written by: Neon_Juxtaposeur
Meg. If if one of your best friends (pillar of the community or not) was doing/has done something stupid wouldn't you tell him so or will you forever remain a sycophant?
...
He got caught, he learned, he even said 'it showed me a lot about honesty, responsibility'.
ie: I don't need to point it out, cos he already knows. Doing so would effectively be rubbing it in his face.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Ahhhh gotcha... I was doing that annoying 'putting out both points of view' thing...
Like you said, he doesn't need it rubbing in, but I was mainly objecting the idea that I felt you were putting forward that someone who is is beloved and a pillar of a community is beyond criticism.
"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
I've added a clarification to my "opening salvo".
I'm slightly upset that people assume I'm here to criticise, or hurt. I'm happy for Nick to inform people about his situation.
I think a lot is being read into what I've written that I really haven't haven't meant. If my posts are sometimes unclear I apologise. I am often arguementative so I guess I'm reaping what I've sown now on the one time that I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I'd just like to say that don't for a second think that Nick was look for sympathy, and I personally think that his post was purely informative.
What I do think is that I disagree with some of his actions in the past on moral grounds. If you disagree with me on that, that's fine. It's just a personal opinion.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Written by: jeff(fake)
What I do think is that I disagree with some of his actions in the past on moral grounds. If you disagree with me on that, that's fine. It's just a personal opinion.
thanks for the clarification jeff.
care to expand on the above for us?
which of nick's actions would you specifically label as 'immoral'?
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Passion is a rare thing in today's numb and apathetic populus. Don't lose it Jeff...
"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Written by: colemanWritten by: jeff(fake)
What I do think is that I disagree with some of his actions in the past on moral grounds. If you disagree with me on that, that's fine. It's just a personal opinion.
thanks for the clarification jeff.
care to expand on the above for us?
which of nick's actions would you specifically label as 'immoral'?
cole. x
Specificaly, he told immigration that he was visiting friends when in fact he was to do a workshop.
I think immigration are unjust in the restriction on small artists, but I still think that in general it isn't right not to tell the truth on official matters. It makes it harder in the future to argue for changes to the law. I don't mean to rub his face in it, but it is something I feel strongly about.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
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