Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Orbital VS Air Wrap
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Posted:
Can anyone explain to me the difference in the two?
Can anyone explain to me the difference in the two?
SILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Posted:
its all a bit vauge and depends where your from and who youve been spinning with. both are terms used differently by different people to describe various sorts of tangles. try doing a search for tangles if you want to know a bit more about tangles...
its all a bit vauge and depends where your from and who youve been spinning with. both are terms used differently by different people to describe various sorts of tangles. try doing a search for tangles if you want to know a bit more about tangles...
Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
SILVER Member
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Posted:
So if they are the same thing, is there any technique to make it spin longer?
So if they are the same thing, is there any technique to make it spin longer?
GOLD Member
x
108 posts
Location: Melbourne, ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, Australia
x
108 posts
Location: Melbourne, ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, Australia
Posted:
go faster?
go faster?
"Quote coming soon..."
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
Orbital is airwrap done between your hands(buzzsaw), otherwise is conical done at side(wheel or wall plane)(possible corrections here)
The technique is called [Old link], when you move the orbit between handle and head.
Edit: spherculist's Linked family sort few descriptions out.
Edit 2: vid by Rev Orb.
light,
:R
EDITED_BY: Richee (1142005531)
Orbital is airwrap done between your hands(buzzsaw), otherwise is conical done at side(wheel or wall plane)(possible corrections here)
The technique is called [Old link], when you move the orbit between handle and head.
Edit: spherculist's Linked family sort few descriptions out.
Edit 2: vid by Rev Orb.
light,
:R
EDITED_BY: Richee (1142005531)
POI THEO(R)IST
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
The term "air wrap" is most often used to describe a wall plane tangle that uses outside and inside planes. "Hyperloop" usually means a tangle done like a weave that travels through the buzz saw plane, but has also been used to describe the "air wrap" depending on who you talk to. "Orbital" is mostly a term used in the glowstringing community and is rarely seen here in the poi community. "Orbitals" are closely related to the weave version of a "hyperloop" but done a bit differently since they're done with glowsticks. Orbitals are often tangled, then pulled tight to make the glow sticks spin very fast before being forcibly pulled apart, whereas hyperloops are usually done in a more controled manner and are supposed to untangle on their own, more or less.
The term "air wrap" is most often used to describe a wall plane tangle that uses outside and inside planes. "Hyperloop" usually means a tangle done like a weave that travels through the buzz saw plane, but has also been used to describe the "air wrap" depending on who you talk to. "Orbital" is mostly a term used in the glowstringing community and is rarely seen here in the poi community. "Orbitals" are closely related to the weave version of a "hyperloop" but done a bit differently since they're done with glowsticks. Orbitals are often tangled, then pulled tight to make the glow sticks spin very fast before being forcibly pulled apart, whereas hyperloops are usually done in a more controled manner and are supposed to untangle on their own, more or less.
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
richee-
the orb was a concept I built from my tangle turn video.. if that's a link to a video, then its a link to Cleric not me.. At the time I ws without camera, and Cleric was patient enough to put up with my ramblings and try it, rather than just shrug it off as impossible like the rest of the glowstringers..
SLC-
orbitals are airwraps and hyperloops.. its purely a matter of size.. if you shrink it to the poi head its an orbital.. if you don't its one of the above..
I'm different from most people.. I think richee linked to what we use.. twists, tangles, and knots.. which don't refer to how the poi move, but more importantly how the poi are linked.. orbitals can be any of those.. and depending on the one you use, that determines how you exit, and how you extend it..
most people just use the basic tangle, and rather than exiting they just pull apart.. which is brutish, but I guess if you don't require finesse, then by all means..
richee-
the orb was a concept I built from my tangle turn video.. if that's a link to a video, then its a link to Cleric not me.. At the time I ws without camera, and Cleric was patient enough to put up with my ramblings and try it, rather than just shrug it off as impossible like the rest of the glowstringers..
SLC-
orbitals are airwraps and hyperloops.. its purely a matter of size.. if you shrink it to the poi head its an orbital.. if you don't its one of the above..
I'm different from most people.. I think richee linked to what we use.. twists, tangles, and knots.. which don't refer to how the poi move, but more importantly how the poi are linked.. orbitals can be any of those.. and depending on the one you use, that determines how you exit, and how you extend it..
most people just use the basic tangle, and rather than exiting they just pull apart.. which is brutish, but I guess if you don't require finesse, then by all means..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
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"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
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SILVER Member
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Posted:
What defines the nexus as moving or not moving?
Edit: Thank you Rev that made sense.
In my expirence going faster never lead to more rotations only more pain when exiting.
EDITED_BY: SLCpoi (1142015500)
Written by: Richee
Edit: spherculist's Linked family sort few descriptions out.
What defines the nexus as moving or not moving?
Edit: Thank you Rev that made sense.
Written by: Jublian
go faster?
In my expirence going faster never lead to more rotations only more pain when exiting.
EDITED_BY: SLCpoi (1142015500)
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
When Poi tales tangle, they create new nexus as center of spin. You manipulate the airwap or hyperloop by moving the nexus, but there is move when both Poi tangle and untagle in the fron of you,wall plane, when the nexus is static.
Try tangle both Poi in front of you in 45 angle:
Code:
o
_ \ _ o
| \
--o-- <------tis you
it force the Poi heads to move inward, inside, closer to your body and there the Poi untangle without moving nexus to other side. This is very fast and better done when the nexus is in the second haf of Poi tale close to the Poi head.
:R
When Poi tales tangle, they create new nexus as center of spin. You manipulate the airwap or hyperloop by moving the nexus, but there is move when both Poi tangle and untagle in the fron of you,wall plane, when the nexus is static.
Try tangle both Poi in front of you in 45 angle:
Code:
o
_ \ _ o
| \
--o-- <------tis you
it force the Poi heads to move inward, inside, closer to your body and there the Poi untangle without moving nexus to other side. This is very fast and better done when the nexus is in the second haf of Poi tale close to the Poi head.
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
I wouldn't worry about the nexus moving too much.. because whether the nexus moves up or down or left or right really has no effect on what is going on other than being further left or right or higher or lower... like doing a butterfly chest high or head high or belly high..
what is important is how the nexus changes.. Each has its own properties, and as I said before those properties alone determine entry, exit, extentions, and what not.. some will spin as long as they have momentum, others will only spin until they run out of twist..
its not something you really have to dwell on too hard.. just something to understand so you can make them transition like you want.. otherwise, you'll spend hours trying to move the link from one place to another and it'll undo in the middle, and other stuff like that.. this just helps you ease through those transitions, since they are just transitions from one nexus to another.. (even when going between the same nexus type.. like turning from a fwd to reverse tangle)
I wouldn't worry about the nexus moving too much.. because whether the nexus moves up or down or left or right really has no effect on what is going on other than being further left or right or higher or lower... like doing a butterfly chest high or head high or belly high..
what is important is how the nexus changes.. Each has its own properties, and as I said before those properties alone determine entry, exit, extentions, and what not.. some will spin as long as they have momentum, others will only spin until they run out of twist..
its not something you really have to dwell on too hard.. just something to understand so you can make them transition like you want.. otherwise, you'll spend hours trying to move the link from one place to another and it'll undo in the middle, and other stuff like that.. this just helps you ease through those transitions, since they are just transitions from one nexus to another.. (even when going between the same nexus type.. like turning from a fwd to reverse tangle)
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
SILVER Member
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Posted:
ok, so it just clicked, what makes an orbital an orbital and an air wrap an air wrap. I know the difference in the two, but I'm still lost on how to get them at a 45 degree angle.
ok, so it just clicked, what makes an orbital an orbital and an air wrap an air wrap. I know the difference in the two, but I'm still lost on how to get them at a 45 degree angle.
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
45 degree angle to what? like instead of horizontal and vertical, you want it at a diagonal?
or do you mean turning it?
either way, I think the answer might be the same.. think of there being a pole between your hands that connects on hand to the other.. the poi will wrap around this pole.. that's how the nexus of tangle works.. (you can apply what you learn form the tanlge to the other cases).. the lead poi coils around the 'pole' and the follow poi uncoils from the pole.. now the angle that the pole is at will affect how the poi coil around it.. they will want to be as perpendicular to the pole as possible, since that's the path of least resistance.. so as you change the angle of the pole the angle of the tangle changes..
so if you want to make one initially at an angle, you need to have your hands and the 'pole' between them at an angle.. and if you want to turn it, you'll have to apply this principle to change the way the poi wrap without actually manipulating the poi.. if that makes sense.. this is different in different cases.. some poi like socks and ball chain can grip pretty tight, and you can forcefull crank them into a turn.. they have too much mass to turn on their own.. remeber the pole is made from the string (or in this case sock and chain) whihc has a lot of give to it.. too wieghty a poi head and it will just force the chain to conform to its path rather than change to the pole's orientation. other things like gowsticks are really light.. and you can't get enough torque out the strings.. so you have to patiently change the axis of the pole at well timed intervals and the poi will confrom to it.. The string holds enough tension to not give under the glowsticks force..
45 degree angle to what? like instead of horizontal and vertical, you want it at a diagonal?
or do you mean turning it?
either way, I think the answer might be the same.. think of there being a pole between your hands that connects on hand to the other.. the poi will wrap around this pole.. that's how the nexus of tangle works.. (you can apply what you learn form the tanlge to the other cases).. the lead poi coils around the 'pole' and the follow poi uncoils from the pole.. now the angle that the pole is at will affect how the poi coil around it.. they will want to be as perpendicular to the pole as possible, since that's the path of least resistance.. so as you change the angle of the pole the angle of the tangle changes..
so if you want to make one initially at an angle, you need to have your hands and the 'pole' between them at an angle.. and if you want to turn it, you'll have to apply this principle to change the way the poi wrap without actually manipulating the poi.. if that makes sense.. this is different in different cases.. some poi like socks and ball chain can grip pretty tight, and you can forcefull crank them into a turn.. they have too much mass to turn on their own.. remeber the pole is made from the string (or in this case sock and chain) whihc has a lot of give to it.. too wieghty a poi head and it will just force the chain to conform to its path rather than change to the pole's orientation. other things like gowsticks are really light.. and you can't get enough torque out the strings.. so you have to patiently change the axis of the pole at well timed intervals and the poi will confrom to it.. The string holds enough tension to not give under the glowsticks force..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
SILVER Member
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Posted:
The 45 degree angle that Richee was trying to depict. But I understand now. I use glowsticks and strings so I don't know what kind of effect that will have.
Edit: Hell yes, I got em down. Thank you for all your help.
EDITED_BY: SLCpoi (1142035252)
The 45 degree angle that Richee was trying to depict. But I understand now. I use glowsticks and strings so I don't know what kind of effect that will have.
Edit: Hell yes, I got em down. Thank you for all your help.
EDITED_BY: SLCpoi (1142035252)
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
You tangle tham in the front of you and instead of they'll stop, they turn inside and untangle. Try to play with angles and wall plane, like butterfy.
:R
You tangle tham in the front of you and instead of they'll stop, they turn inside and untangle. Try to play with angles and wall plane, like butterfy.
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
oh damn.. he posted that while I was putting up my post.. I didnt even see it.. haha..
oh damn.. he posted that while I was putting up my post.. I didnt even see it.. haha..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
SILVER Member
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
newbie
11 posts
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Posted:
I still dont understand the "planes" though. But I did get the orbitals down thank you for your picture Richee. I didn't understand it at first but it clicked while I was on the john.
I'll make it simple, can you post a link with the main terminology?
EDITED_BY: SLCpoi (1142036349)
I still dont understand the "planes" though. But I did get the orbitals down thank you for your picture Richee. I didn't understand it at first but it clicked while I was on the john.
I'll make it simple, can you post a link with the main terminology?
EDITED_BY: SLCpoi (1142036349)
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
[Old link].
:R
[Old link].
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
SILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
Posted:
nice post, rev.
about the pole, angles, etc..
nice post, rev.
about the pole, angles, etc..
those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
cool.. Since it was an answer to something that wasn't asked, I'm glad someone found it useful.. now its not so much ramblings, as insightful.. hahaha..
cool.. Since it was an answer to something that wasn't asked, I'm glad someone found it useful.. now its not so much ramblings, as insightful.. hahaha..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
SILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
Posted:
you're so deep. :P
you're so deep. :P
those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.
SILVER Member
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posted:
i have something of a personal mystery in this area too -- are any of you playing with anti-tangles that wrap in different directions than the move travels? i'm trying to see if that's what i've accomplished, or if i'm just doing strange things with inversions and tangle/wraps... i only have one way to enter it, and it involves tangling, wrapping while bringing it inside, wall-plane inverting (essentially while it's stalled in the wrap), and then unwrapping while bringing it slowly outside again so that untangles outside at the same time it hits the opening position, and in the same direction it entered the tangle in (before the arm wrap) but with hands following along as if it had changed direction during the wrap. i guess if i were better at anti-spin, i could continue that here, but i basically seperate and isolate toward the direction the poi are actually spinning so i can tangle-wrap again.
i guess my question is whether to think of this as an 'anti-tangle' or just one of many possible 'tangle-flowers' (like the "anti-spin tangle" people describe)? or maybe exiting a wrap in the same direction i entered it counts as a new type of "illusion" and the rest is just transition in and out? haha. boy do i love poi.
O_o and if you can exit tangles in anti-spin, can you enter them in anti-spin too? (goes off to do some searches) edit -- err, that is to say, if you're spinning an outside tangle (air-wrap), can it exit outside anti-spun as well, or does it have to go inside (hyperloop) first? i can't see how it would work without insides/seperation in my head...
EDITED_BY: Dut (1142290081)
i have something of a personal mystery in this area too -- are any of you playing with anti-tangles that wrap in different directions than the move travels? i'm trying to see if that's what i've accomplished, or if i'm just doing strange things with inversions and tangle/wraps... i only have one way to enter it, and it involves tangling, wrapping while bringing it inside, wall-plane inverting (essentially while it's stalled in the wrap), and then unwrapping while bringing it slowly outside again so that untangles outside at the same time it hits the opening position, and in the same direction it entered the tangle in (before the arm wrap) but with hands following along as if it had changed direction during the wrap. i guess if i were better at anti-spin, i could continue that here, but i basically seperate and isolate toward the direction the poi are actually spinning so i can tangle-wrap again.
i guess my question is whether to think of this as an 'anti-tangle' or just one of many possible 'tangle-flowers' (like the "anti-spin tangle" people describe)? or maybe exiting a wrap in the same direction i entered it counts as a new type of "illusion" and the rest is just transition in and out? haha. boy do i love poi.
O_o and if you can exit tangles in anti-spin, can you enter them in anti-spin too? (goes off to do some searches) edit -- err, that is to say, if you're spinning an outside tangle (air-wrap), can it exit outside anti-spun as well, or does it have to go inside (hyperloop) first? i can't see how it would work without insides/seperation in my head...
EDITED_BY: Dut (1142290081)
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
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Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
hey dut..
umm.. I posted on anti-tangles a long time ago.. but I following what you typed is taking more concentration than I have at the moment.. (sorry bro) but I can give you a few thoughts..
anti-tangle.. I limit this to being only a relevent term if you talk about moving the hands relative the tanlge.. like how you can roll with a tangle (winding) or go against it (counterwinding) the latter is what I've always understood to be the only real meaning of anti-tangle..
tangled-flowers. are along the lines of buzzsaw flowers.. only tangled.. they can be antispun in the same sense that that antispun buzzsaw flowers are..
entering tangles fromm antispin are SOOOO easy.. because the slightest miff in antispin and you tanlge.. so there are soooo many ways to enter and exit all sorts of tangles and stuff form antispin..
hey dut..
umm.. I posted on anti-tangles a long time ago.. but I following what you typed is taking more concentration than I have at the moment.. (sorry bro) but I can give you a few thoughts..
anti-tangle.. I limit this to being only a relevent term if you talk about moving the hands relative the tanlge.. like how you can roll with a tangle (winding) or go against it (counterwinding) the latter is what I've always understood to be the only real meaning of anti-tangle..
tangled-flowers. are along the lines of buzzsaw flowers.. only tangled.. they can be antispun in the same sense that that antispun buzzsaw flowers are..
entering tangles fromm antispin are SOOOO easy.. because the slightest miff in antispin and you tanlge.. so there are soooo many ways to enter and exit all sorts of tangles and stuff form antispin..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
member
110 posts
Location: ashland OR
110 posts
Location: ashland OR
Posted:
If you isolate the hand with the lead upward moving poi you should be able to continue the tangle longer.
If you isolate the hand with the lead upward moving poi you should be able to continue the tangle longer.
dont make peoples heads turn, give them whiplash.
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
Ain't that the truth
Makes it easy to pretend you meant to do that when your antispin goes wrong 
Written by: Rev
entering tangles fromm antispin are SOOOO easy.. because the slightest miff in antispin and you tanlge.. so there are soooo many ways to enter and exit all sorts of tangles and stuff form antispin..
Ain't that the truth
Makes it easy to pretend you meant to do that when your antispin goes wrong "Moo," said the happy cow.
GOLD Member
sneaky little kitty
251 posts
Location: Missouri, USA
sneaky little kitty
251 posts
Location: Missouri, USA
Posted:
i have a question. i think i understand the hyperloops and isolations and air wraps and whatnot. but my question is can they be done with chains? almost all of the videos i see are sock poi.
i have a question. i think i understand the hyperloops and isolations and air wraps and whatnot. but my question is can they be done with chains? almost all of the videos i see are sock poi.
you want the truth? you can't handle the truth!
mmmmm...cheesecake
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no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
Posted:
anything can be done with anything.
(and nothing can be done with nothing.. )
etc.
but yes. .. .. more yes than no?
..
as you think, so you are.
anything can be done with anything.
(and nothing can be done with nothing.. )
etc.
but yes. .. .. more yes than no?
..
as you think, so you are.
those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.
GOLD Member
sneaky little kitty
251 posts
Location: Missouri, USA
sneaky little kitty
251 posts
Location: Missouri, USA
Posted:
yeah, thanks for clearing that up!
yeah, thanks for clearing that up!
you want the truth? you can't handle the truth!
mmmmm...cheesecake
SILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
Posted:
good old zen.. always clearing things up.
good old zen.. always clearing things up.
those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.
member
110 posts
Location: ashland OR
110 posts
Location: ashland OR
Posted:
YOU can do them with chains look for video on revver I do mad tangles and flailing about.
its here actually https://revver.com/video/15105/
and https://revver.com/video/15897/
they were in vids but they arnt that good.
YOU can do them with chains look for video on revver I do mad tangles and flailing about.
its here actually https://revver.com/video/15105/
and https://revver.com/video/15897/
they were in vids but they arnt that good.
dont make peoples heads turn, give them whiplash.
GOLD Member
sneaky little kitty
251 posts
Location: Missouri, USA
sneaky little kitty
251 posts
Location: Missouri, USA
Posted:
very cool thanks! i love how you can actually hear the chains tangle.
very cool thanks! i love how you can actually hear the chains tangle.
you want the truth? you can't handle the truth!
mmmmm...cheesecake
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