Forums > Social Discussion > Troubled thought about Toys and where they come from
Login/Join to ParticipateDIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Would you use poi that were made in a sweat shop?
Would you use poi that were made in a factory with appauling low health and workong conditions
12 hours a day 7 days a week for 1-2hours a day.
Migrant workers away from their husbands, wives and children
Maybe for 1-3 dollars.
this is typical for many chinese migrant workers
I ask because I was just researching the manufacture of some of my favorite props (not poi in this case)
a type of ball. Baoding balls (chinese health balls to be precise and found an article (nytimes) about their manufacture in a typical chinese factory.
Knowing that many of the poi on sale in the uk (poi with tails especially) are made in china.
I asked these 2 questions.
Hmmmm.
thoughts.
Would spinning poi made like this have the same uplifting benefits for you soul?
I'd love also to know whether HOP gear is made ethically/fairtrade. Although Knowing Malcolm, I think that I can already guess the answer
Would you use poi that were made in a sweat shop?
Would you use poi that were made in a factory with appauling low health and workong conditions
12 hours a day 7 days a week for 1-2hours a day.
Migrant workers away from their husbands, wives and children
Maybe for 1-3 dollars.
this is typical for many chinese migrant workers
I ask because I was just researching the manufacture of some of my favorite props (not poi in this case)
a type of ball. Baoding balls (chinese health balls to be precise and found an article (nytimes) about their manufacture in a typical chinese factory.
Knowing that many of the poi on sale in the uk (poi with tails especially) are made in china.
I asked these 2 questions.
Hmmmm.
thoughts.
Would spinning poi made like this have the same uplifting benefits for you soul?
I'd love also to know whether HOP gear is made ethically/fairtrade. Although Knowing Malcolm, I think that I can already guess the answer
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
another fairly good argument for personally constructed equipment, eh?
another fairly good argument for personally constructed equipment, eh?
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
But, for those of us too lazy to try...
We have HoP (waiting on a fire staff! bouncing with anticipation) or alternatively firetoys.com, flowtoys.com and many other sites that manufacture their own kit, locally. Often the author of the website makes the kit themselves.
Good point though, thanks for putting it on a board.
But, for those of us too lazy to try...
We have HoP (waiting on a fire staff! bouncing with anticipation) or alternatively firetoys.com, flowtoys.com and many other sites that manufacture their own kit, locally. Often the author of the website makes the kit themselves.
Good point though, thanks for putting it on a board.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
GOLD Member
Neo - Hippie
358 posts
Location: Sala, Slovakia
Neo - Hippie
358 posts
Location: Sala, Slovakia
Posted:
The best toys are homemade anyway.. Or from sites that make them themselves. No offence for companies like Henrys or Babache or Play or whatever but heir poi.. Well.. If you seen em you know.. Making fire poi in factories would never really work, IMO, coz I doubt they would be anything but bad and also maybe coz of people not buying firetoys so much..?
The best toys are homemade anyway.. Or from sites that make them themselves. No offence for companies like Henrys or Babache or Play or whatever but heir poi.. Well.. If you seen em you know.. Making fire poi in factories would never really work, IMO, coz I doubt they would be anything but bad and also maybe coz of people not buying firetoys so much..?
Smile.. It confuses people..:)
Wonders never cease as long as you never cease to wonder.
Sometimes sword wofter
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
I try to make all my toys using components British companies manufacture but the question is, where do their raw materials comes from? The steel, aluminium, fibre glass etc... Are these exploited from third world countries?
You wouldn't want fire toys made in factories. Ideally businesses should make every one to the customers individual order
I try to make all my toys using components British companies manufacture but the question is, where do their raw materials comes from? The steel, aluminium, fibre glass etc... Are these exploited from third world countries?
You wouldn't want fire toys made in factories. Ideally businesses should make every one to the customers individual order
IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.
"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Fire toys probably won't be made under dubious circumstances... tis too specialised.
But there's tailed poi, juggling balls, juggling rings... in fact, most types of juggling equipment.
As most people on here claim to be considerate for others - would using toys made under such conditions be too great a conflict?
(tis a similar argument to 'are we damaging the environment by our use of fuels'? and is the use of illegal drugs (which you don't know the source for) impacting on the lives of the growers (thinking specifically of coke)?)
All those questions we tend to ignore...
Just how far could you go in the pursuit of a good time, knowing that your hobby is causing harm elsewhere?
Fire toys probably won't be made under dubious circumstances... tis too specialised.
But there's tailed poi, juggling balls, juggling rings... in fact, most types of juggling equipment.
As most people on here claim to be considerate for others - would using toys made under such conditions be too great a conflict?
(tis a similar argument to 'are we damaging the environment by our use of fuels'? and is the use of illegal drugs (which you don't know the source for) impacting on the lives of the growers (thinking specifically of coke)?)
All those questions we tend to ignore...
Just how far could you go in the pursuit of a good time, knowing that your hobby is causing harm elsewhere?
Getting to the other side 
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Its inevitable.
At least 2 major jugglig manufacturers are in the process of moving their manufactuing out to china.
If poi were made in a factory in China they could be half the price retail.
and there would not be a drop in quality.
Already I know that there is at least 1 of the major tail-poi wholesalers in UK who moved all their manufacture out to china because the profit margin is much higher
So If people could buy poi for half the price would they?
Its inevitable.
At least 2 major jugglig manufacturers are in the process of moving their manufactuing out to china.
If poi were made in a factory in China they could be half the price retail.
and there would not be a drop in quality.
Already I know that there is at least 1 of the major tail-poi wholesalers in UK who moved all their manufacture out to china because the profit margin is much higher
So If people could buy poi for half the price would they?
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Probably.
Maybe not the more conscientious among us... but no doubt newbies and others will go for the cheapest option... which will eventually force the companies who are selling poi ethically for more money either to reduce prices or go out of business.
Tis very sad
Probably.
Maybe not the more conscientious among us... but no doubt newbies and others will go for the cheapest option... which will eventually force the companies who are selling poi ethically for more money either to reduce prices or go out of business.
Tis very sad
Getting to the other side
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
:o)
i'm very pleased to say that te POOKa toys was offerd the chance to outsource poi(of the fluffy kind) to indonesia and turned it down
*sticks chest out in pompous manner*
we(te POOKa and tepookatoys) try to buy all our things from nice people, and to buy environmentally freindly and fair trade. hopefully it makes as much of a difference as we like to think.
who are the juggling manufacturers outsourcing, drew?
R
:o)
i'm very pleased to say that te POOKa toys was offerd the chance to outsource poi(of the fluffy kind) to indonesia and turned it down
*sticks chest out in pompous manner*
we(te POOKa and tepookatoys) try to buy all our things from nice people, and to buy environmentally freindly and fair trade. hopefully it makes as much of a difference as we like to think.
who are the juggling manufacturers outsourcing, drew?
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
i've been using toys from a company called poipoi and have no idea where they come from. what i do know is some of theire stuff is lo quality, finger loops in general fray with the first use, the weights in the flags manage to work their way out from where they have been sewn in.
As for their fire heads i have not had a problem with them and they do look well built. The shop where i get my toys from however had a pair of large monkey fist poi that i was not overly keen on paying money for, the attachment from the chain to the fist was simply a loop of the kevler rope and i thought this was a bit dangerous (plus they where stupidly expencive)
i've been using toys from a company called poipoi and have no idea where they come from. what i do know is some of theire stuff is lo quality, finger loops in general fray with the first use, the weights in the flags manage to work their way out from where they have been sewn in.
As for their fire heads i have not had a problem with them and they do look well built. The shop where i get my toys from however had a pair of large monkey fist poi that i was not overly keen on paying money for, the attachment from the chain to the fist was simply a loop of the kevler rope and i thought this was a bit dangerous (plus they where stupidly expencive)
Sometimes sword wofter
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Jeez that's terrible, kevlar ropes can fray very quickly when burnt and pulled upon. I would have thought wire or chain would have been a more obvious, and safe, solution... 
Written by: ravehead
the attachment from the chain to the fist was simply a loop of the kevler rope and i thought this was a bit dangerous
Jeez that's terrible, kevlar ropes can fray very quickly when burnt and pulled upon. I would have thought wire or chain would have been a more obvious, and safe, solution...
IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.
"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
jings!
hoot!
crivens!
jings!
hoot!
crivens!
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
i have only talked to tink about this so far but i'm going to go to the shop and raise my concernes about them. i did warn the lad behind the counter about it but if they are still stocking them i feel i may have to contact the shop owner.
i have only talked to tink about this so far but i'm going to go to the shop and raise my concernes about them. i did warn the lad behind the counter about it but if they are still stocking them i feel i may have to contact the shop owner.
From the Ashes of a Ninja Rise THE HIPS OF RAGE
371 posts
Location: Edinburgh
371 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
I know that beard have put all of their plastic moulding into the far east but I don't know about the other company. I'm pretty sure that cobra poi and that lot are made in not nice places
I know that beard have put all of their plastic moulding into the far east but I don't know about the other company. I'm pretty sure that cobra poi and that lot are made in not nice places
Viva UGLY STAFF
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
i have had a few pairs of cobra poi and to tell the truth i think they aren't manufactures too well. the stitching comes apart very easily
i have had a few pairs of cobra poi and to tell the truth i think they aren't manufactures too well. the stitching comes apart very easily
Sometimes sword wofter
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
When we were debating the ethics of outsourcing at te POOka toys (it wasn't much of a debate to be honest, we're a bunch of eco-hippies through and through) we were told that with outsourcing orders the first one is excellent quality to encourage you to order more but that the quality decreases with every successive order. The idea being that once you're relying upon low prices your stuck with whatever rubbish they send you and because they are on the other side of the world what can you do about it?
This might explain the poor quality.
Considering the strong ethics and morals generally of those in the Juggling/Spinning community it's a shame that it is not reflected in those supplying the equipment...
When we were debating the ethics of outsourcing at te POOka toys (it wasn't much of a debate to be honest, we're a bunch of eco-hippies through and through) we were told that with outsourcing orders the first one is excellent quality to encourage you to order more but that the quality decreases with every successive order. The idea being that once you're relying upon low prices your stuck with whatever rubbish they send you and because they are on the other side of the world what can you do about it?
This might explain the poor quality.
Considering the strong ethics and morals generally of those in the Juggling/Spinning community it's a shame that it is not reflected in those supplying the equipment...
IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.
"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
well, we can always vote with our wallets
(and no that don't mean stuffing your notes down the ballot box next time there's an election, thansk for asking.)
well, we can always vote with our wallets
(and no that don't mean stuffing your notes down the ballot box next time there's an election, thansk for asking.)
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
or buy from HoP I guess
or buy from HoP I guess
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,533 posts
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,533 posts
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Posted:
.:sticks fingers in his ears and sings loudly:.
LALALALALALA!
Denial is my friend.
.:sticks fingers in his ears and sings loudly:.
LALALALALALA!
Denial is my friend.
-James
"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
First American in the thread.
-->
<--
First American in the thread.
-->
<-- BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Don't know about that... (see Firepoise's post concerning drugs, fuel etc). I think we may just value some moral and ethic aspects more than the general public, and care less about others. How many of us (including me!) drive, or even fly, quite a distance to meetings and conventions? And how many of us buy alcohol in cans because it's cheaper than the bottles, which would be easier to recycle?
I think lots of manufacturers of equipment reflect the fact that many spinners don't have that much money and sometimes will go for the more dodgy products because they can afford them. If I had started poi in some tiny place with no proper spinning community, I probably would've.
Written by: Zauberdachs
Considering the strong ethics and morals generally of those in the Juggling/Spinning community it's a shame that it is not reflected in those supplying the equipment...
Don't know about that... (see Firepoise's post concerning drugs, fuel etc). I think we may just value some moral and ethic aspects more than the general public, and care less about others. How many of us (including me!) drive, or even fly, quite a distance to meetings and conventions? And how many of us buy alcohol in cans because it's cheaper than the bottles, which would be easier to recycle?
I think lots of manufacturers of equipment reflect the fact that many spinners don't have that much money and sometimes will go for the more dodgy products because they can afford them. If I had started poi in some tiny place with no proper spinning community, I probably would've.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
Posted:
also buying paraffin in plastic bottles that go in the bin - paraffin pumps and reusable containers are a lot better.
also buying paraffin in plastic bottles that go in the bin - paraffin pumps and reusable containers are a lot better.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Erm... guys? You can recycle cans and paraffin bottles... you just need to wash them out first...
Erm... guys? You can recycle cans and paraffin bottles... you just need to wash them out first...
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
yep... but using aluminium products in the first place is a terrible waste of energy, and bottles can be reused only by washing and cleaning them properly, whereas (flattened) cans need to go through another process that involves lots of energy.
yep... but using aluminium products in the first place is a terrible waste of energy, and bottles can be reused only by washing and cleaning them properly, whereas (flattened) cans need to go through another process that involves lots of energy.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Sometimes sword wofter
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Yeah, it's a tricky one alright... I try though. I don't own a car and travel by bus or train if I can. I recycle everything that it is possible to recycle. I buy from the co-op rather than Tescos and get Ecover rather than fairy liquid or some other chemically rubbish.
But then here I am burning large amounts of dirty parafin... 
Written by: Birgit
Don't know about that... (see Firepoise's post concerning drugs, fuel etc). I think we may just value some moral and ethic aspects more than the general public, and care less about others. How many of us (including me!) drive, or even fly, quite a distance to meetings and conventions? And how many of us buy alcohol in cans because it's cheaper than the bottles, which would be easier to recycle?
Yeah, it's a tricky one alright... I try though. I don't own a car and travel by bus or train if I can. I recycle everything that it is possible to recycle. I buy from the co-op rather than Tescos and get Ecover rather than fairy liquid or some other chemically rubbish.
But then here I am burning large amounts of dirty parafin...
IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.
"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"
SILVER Member
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
Posted:
yes, but you can also buy containers with a bigger volume that can be reused lots...
Written by: Sethis
You can recycle cans and paraffin bottles... you just need to wash them out first
yes, but you can also buy containers with a bigger volume that can be reused lots...
Sometimes sword wofter
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
On the subject of cutting down on waste, how many people here when they spin of the excess parafin on their toys do this into a bucket or jug instead of just spinning it off into the air?
A friend of mine recently showed me just how much fuel you can save or alternatively how much was being wasted...
On the subject of cutting down on waste, how many people here when they spin of the excess parafin on their toys do this into a bucket or jug instead of just spinning it off into the air?
A friend of mine recently showed me just how much fuel you can save or alternatively how much was being wasted...
IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.
"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
good idea
by the way, Ben, I wasn't having a go, it's definitely better to have some moral/ethic concerns than to have none at all
good idea by the way, Ben, I wasn't having a go, it's definitely better to have some moral/ethic concerns than to have none at all
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Sometimes sword wofter
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Hadn't cross my mind that you were! 
Written by: Birgit
by the way, Ben, I wasn't having a go, it's definitely better to have some moral/ethic concerns than to have none at all
Hadn't cross my mind that you were!
IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.
"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
Posted:
Hmmn. Interesting how our thoughts align from half a world away... I too have been researching getting a product manufactured in China, and wondered about how to check into working conditions there... Another possibility I thought of was using a factory in Thailand, that actually makes their plastics from the recycled bottles that used to be ( and still are to a lesser degree) spread everywhere there like a plague. Not sure yet what that will do to the price though, as if they are priced too high it will be a pointless product, no one will buy.
Surely there must also be factories run in a healthy fashion in Thailand or China? So the wages are lower than what we would pay here, but good for within their economy?
Will continue research and let you know what I find out...
smiles,
Andrea
Hmmn. Interesting how our thoughts align from half a world away... I too have been researching getting a product manufactured in China, and wondered about how to check into working conditions there... Another possibility I thought of was using a factory in Thailand, that actually makes their plastics from the recycled bottles that used to be ( and still are to a lesser degree) spread everywhere there like a plague. Not sure yet what that will do to the price though, as if they are priced too high it will be a pointless product, no one will buy.
Surely there must also be factories run in a healthy fashion in Thailand or China? So the wages are lower than what we would pay here, but good for within their economy?
Will continue research and let you know what I find out...
smiles,
Andrea
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
Sometimes sword wofter
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
what really finished it for me was the Carbon footprint of shipping something, that could be made locally, halfway accross the world. Not environmentally ethical.
what really finished it for me was the Carbon footprint of shipping something, that could be made locally, halfway accross the world. Not environmentally ethical.
IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.
"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"
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