Forums > Social Discussion > Trouble in France
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Amid all the other discussions on HoP today, we seem to have overlooked two rather large and important stories happening in the world... so I'm posting a couple of threads... it'd be great to get some feedback.
Twelfth night of riots in France
So then... nearly 2,000 cars have been burnt out. One person has died.
Anyone any idea why? We have some splendid French spinners posting on here... Julien, Olive, Cass... can you comment?
What's it like over there? International press reports are never as good as the ones right there... Is the curfew affecting you? Or is it just in certain parts?
Hope you're all ok anyways...
Take care
Clare x
Amid all the other discussions on HoP today, we seem to have overlooked two rather large and important stories happening in the world... so I'm posting a couple of threads... it'd be great to get some feedback.
Twelfth night of riots in France
So then... nearly 2,000 cars have been burnt out. One person has died.
Anyone any idea why? We have some splendid French spinners posting on here... Julien, Olive, Cass... can you comment?
What's it like over there? International press reports are never as good as the ones right there... Is the curfew affecting you? Or is it just in certain parts?
Hope you're all ok anyways...
Take care
Clare x
Getting to the other side 
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
One man killed
5,873 cars torched
1,500 people arrested
17 people sentenced
120 police and firefighters injured
Running Totals for all of the riots...
I didn't know it was so bad, because I haven't seen the news recently. What the devil sparked it off??
One man killed
5,873 cars torched
1,500 people arrested
17 people sentenced
120 police and firefighters injured
Running Totals for all of the riots...
I didn't know it was so bad, because I haven't seen the news recently. What the devil sparked it off??
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,191 posts
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,191 posts
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Posted:
have been watching the news reports over the last couple of days-but none of them say WHY exactly it all started.i know the reasons behind it,but what the hell was the catalyst?????????????????
have been watching the news reports over the last couple of days-but none of them say WHY exactly it all started.i know the reasons behind it,but what the hell was the catalyst????????????????? BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
I don't know the reasons behind it either...
Social deprivation is, unfortunately, not new.
The catalyst was the deaths of two young men who were electrocuted while apparently being chased by police. That event caused riots in parts of Paris, which have then spread around the country... but I don't know why that has escalated to this level.
I don't know the reasons behind it either...
Social deprivation is, unfortunately, not new.
The catalyst was the deaths of two young men who were electrocuted while apparently being chased by police. That event caused riots in parts of Paris, which have then spread around the country... but I don't know why that has escalated to this level.
Getting to the other side
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
It's now spread to Berlin, Bremen and Brussels.
Tony Blair said the UK is safe because their unemployment is half that of France...I think that's being overly optimistic.
It's now spread to Berlin, Bremen and Brussels.
Tony Blair said the UK is safe because their unemployment is half that of France...I think that's being overly optimistic.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
SILVER Member
addict
475 posts
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia
addict
475 posts
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia
Posted:
Lowlife scum looking for an excuse to fullfill their disgusting need for violence and destruction.
Lowlife scum looking for an excuse to fullfill their disgusting need for violence and destruction.
Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight
SILVER Member
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
Posted:
Conspiracy theorist side of the story:
The US administration, sick of Europe not being behind them on their middle east policy, had agents from their security agencies provoke rioting from muslims and other ethnic minorities, to sway public opinion throughout europe, in order to persuade european voters to favour policies that are in line with those of the US administration.
More.
Conspiracy theorist side of the story:
The US administration, sick of Europe not being behind them on their middle east policy, had agents from their security agencies provoke rioting from muslims and other ethnic minorities, to sway public opinion throughout europe, in order to persuade european voters to favour policies that are in line with those of the US administration.
More.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Basically, if you live in one of those areas the kids are from, you're looking at two generations of unemployed immigrants in many cases. Teachers flee from the schools because they don't want to teach there. Education is crap, and the streets are full of gangs (not US-style but bad enough) and drugs. If you're lucky, someone in your family has work - if you're not, and if your friends aren't, you don't have anyone to take as a role model. If you apply for a job and they read your address on the cv, apparently you're as good as rejected.
Add a politician who calls you "scum" and says you have to get off the streets. He takes police from the area that can relate to the young people off the street and has them patrolled by special forces instead. All they do is check on immigrant-looking young men and boys for drugs etc, and keep them at the police for hours even if they find nothing.
So 2 of the boys decided to run away from the police. Call it foolishness or being fed up with the situation, but they ran into an electrical substation and died. Police say it wasn't their fault, but their friends say they were chased. In this situation, where there has been car-burning on and off for the last 10 years or so (it was even in my school books in French!), that's enough to fuel what's going on now. Experts say it may get worse, or stop, at any time, for no apparent reason, but the underlying problems are too big to be solved with a special plan the government is making up.
https://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,383623,00.html
Most of what I've posted is from an interview with Daniel Cohn-Bendit who's mentioned in the article I've linked to - he was involved in the 1968 student riots in France, and is now in the European parliament for the German Green Party. Unfortunately the interview's in German so linking to it won't help much
Basically, if you live in one of those areas the kids are from, you're looking at two generations of unemployed immigrants in many cases. Teachers flee from the schools because they don't want to teach there. Education is crap, and the streets are full of gangs (not US-style but bad enough) and drugs. If you're lucky, someone in your family has work - if you're not, and if your friends aren't, you don't have anyone to take as a role model. If you apply for a job and they read your address on the cv, apparently you're as good as rejected.
Add a politician who calls you "scum" and says you have to get off the streets. He takes police from the area that can relate to the young people off the street and has them patrolled by special forces instead. All they do is check on immigrant-looking young men and boys for drugs etc, and keep them at the police for hours even if they find nothing.
So 2 of the boys decided to run away from the police. Call it foolishness or being fed up with the situation, but they ran into an electrical substation and died. Police say it wasn't their fault, but their friends say they were chased. In this situation, where there has been car-burning on and off for the last 10 years or so (it was even in my school books in French!), that's enough to fuel what's going on now. Experts say it may get worse, or stop, at any time, for no apparent reason, but the underlying problems are too big to be solved with a special plan the government is making up.
https://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,383623,00.html
Most of what I've posted is from an interview with Daniel Cohn-Bendit who's mentioned in the article I've linked to - he was involved in the 1968 student riots in France, and is now in the European parliament for the German Green Party. Unfortunately the interview's in German so linking to it won't help much
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
Posted:
an attitude that will certainly help in the long run....or perhaps not.
the reasons Birgit has discussed are responsible for what the right wing here call our 'immigration problem'...people leaving their country for political or economic reasons know that life will be harder in france than it is in the UK, so they obviously try to get here. although a lot of people in the UK have a problem with asylum seekers etc at least here they can work, get a decent(ish) education etc.
i've been shocked by the attitude of the french politicians over the past few weeks. i've always known its not great for immigrants in france but there seems to be institutionalised racism on a grand scale - comparable to the worst black and hispanic ghettos in america in some cases, it seems.
basically everything else i had to say has been covered by birgit. its a terrible situation but the french authorities must have been aware that their treatment of these people would create these types of tensions - suppressing/oppressing an 'ugly' part of the community isn't going to make it go away. sigh. people.
Written by: DoktorSkell
Lowlife scum looking for an excuse to fullfill their disgusting need for violence and destruction.
an attitude that will certainly help in the long run....or perhaps not.
the reasons Birgit has discussed are responsible for what the right wing here call our 'immigration problem'...people leaving their country for political or economic reasons know that life will be harder in france than it is in the UK, so they obviously try to get here. although a lot of people in the UK have a problem with asylum seekers etc at least here they can work, get a decent(ish) education etc.
i've been shocked by the attitude of the french politicians over the past few weeks. i've always known its not great for immigrants in france but there seems to be institutionalised racism on a grand scale - comparable to the worst black and hispanic ghettos in america in some cases, it seems.
basically everything else i had to say has been covered by birgit. its a terrible situation but the french authorities must have been aware that their treatment of these people would create these types of tensions - suppressing/oppressing an 'ugly' part of the community isn't going to make it go away. sigh. people.
GOLD Member
co-director of A.C.B.I.S.H.A.
761 posts
Location: in the corner beside the filing cabinets, 2nd floo...
co-director of A.C.B.I.S.H.A.
761 posts
Location: in the corner beside the filing cabinets, 2nd floo...
Posted:
how dare you say such a hideous thing?? what a dreadful and sickening thing to say when you clearly dont understand the present situation in france. this is a very real problem and people are dying
i realy hope chirac decides to do something to make the riots stop before more lives are lost, and that he realieses you cant put people in boxes and beat them, then expect them to sit there and take it forever. these are people who's grand parents moved to france from north africa and various other places around. THEY ARE BLOODY FRENCH!!!! they were born in france, the speak french, they have french names. yet they are referred to as "imigrants", i have seen the situation that these people are 'living' in. its troubling that in a country as well developed and economically strong as france , there are people living in such conditions. i realy hope that chirac will see where the problem lies and remove the problem members of parliment , before the situation escelates further
Written by: DoktorSkell
Lowlife scum looking for an excuse to fullfill their disgusting need for violence and destruction.
how dare you say such a hideous thing?? what a dreadful and sickening thing to say when you clearly dont understand the present situation in france. this is a very real problem and people are dying
i realy hope chirac decides to do something to make the riots stop before more lives are lost, and that he realieses you cant put people in boxes and beat them, then expect them to sit there and take it forever. these are people who's grand parents moved to france from north africa and various other places around. THEY ARE BLOODY FRENCH!!!! they were born in france, the speak french, they have french names. yet they are referred to as "imigrants", i have seen the situation that these people are 'living' in. its troubling that in a country as well developed and economically strong as france , there are people living in such conditions. i realy hope that chirac will see where the problem lies and remove the problem members of parliment , before the situation escelates further
There's no place like 127.0.0.1, There's no place like 127.0.0.1, There's no place like 127.0.0.1,
"in most of our friends we're the hippies. but we have hippie friends of our own.. its like a dog having its own pet" - H. Sinoquet 19-03-2005
BRONZE Member
Snoochie-boochie-noochies!
663 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Snoochie-boochie-noochies!
663 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
if there was a simple way for one side to stop any riot, we wouldn't have them. but if someone wants a riot, they'll have one whatever anyone else says.
Written by: doctor_fandango
i realy hope chirac decides to do something to make the riots stop
if there was a simple way for one side to stop any riot, we wouldn't have them. but if someone wants a riot, they'll have one whatever anyone else says.
GOLD Member
co-director of A.C.B.I.S.H.A.
761 posts
Location: in the corner beside the filing cabinets, 2nd floo...
co-director of A.C.B.I.S.H.A.
761 posts
Location: in the corner beside the filing cabinets, 2nd floo...
Posted:
i know but taking Sarkozyout of office(suggestion by left and left wing parties and the only request made by rioters) would help calm things down, as opposed to the right & right wing suggestion , get the army in. theres no 1 action that will stop any of the rioting, but some decisions could make it ALOT worse.
i know but taking Sarkozyout of office(suggestion by left and left wing parties and the only request made by rioters) would help calm things down, as opposed to the right & right wing suggestion , get the army in. theres no 1 action that will stop any of the rioting, but some decisions could make it ALOT worse.
There's no place like 127.0.0.1, There's no place like 127.0.0.1, There's no place like 127.0.0.1,
"in most of our friends we're the hippies. but we have hippie friends of our own.. its like a dog having its own pet" - H. Sinoquet 19-03-2005
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Violence easing in France? Anything resolved?!
Violence easing in France? Anything resolved?!
Getting to the other side
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
Here's a good article about the causes of this sort of thing in France's ghettos... it's old but well worth a read
https://www.city-journal.org/html/12_4_the_barbarians.html
Here's a good article about the causes of this sort of thing in France's ghettos... it's old but well worth a read
https://www.city-journal.org/html/12_4_the_barbarians.html
"Moo," said the happy cow.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Deportation of people with residency Visas? Who are there legally?
Does that solve *anything*???
Deportation of people with residency Visas? Who are there legally?
Does that solve *anything*???
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
According to what I've heard in the American media, french immigrants (and immigrants in other parts of europe) live in their own isolated communites. Their children have been brought up to think of themselves as existing outside of French society. Rather than integration through employment, the French government has set up welfare programs to support this portion of their population.
Now there are unemployed youths with nothing to do, no respect for thier government, and a great deal of resentment. A few people start burning cars, and everyone else decides to join in.
The mainstream media here never calls them muslim, they frame it entirely in terms of race and poverty. Sometimes, though, I suspect that there is more going on.
According to what I've heard in the American media, french immigrants (and immigrants in other parts of europe) live in their own isolated communites. Their children have been brought up to think of themselves as existing outside of French society. Rather than integration through employment, the French government has set up welfare programs to support this portion of their population.
Now there are unemployed youths with nothing to do, no respect for thier government, and a great deal of resentment. A few people start burning cars, and everyone else decides to join in.
The mainstream media here never calls them muslim, they frame it entirely in terms of race and poverty. Sometimes, though, I suspect that there is more going on.
SILVER Member
addict
475 posts
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia
addict
475 posts
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia
Posted:
Looks like there has been a grave misunderstanding of the meaning of my comment.
I did not make that comment because of their nationality.
I did not make that comment because of the colour of their skin.
i did not make that comment because of their socio economic status.
I made that comment directed at the individuals in France who are Taking to the streets at night, burning cars and buildings, throwing Molotov Cocktails at Police, and countless other crimes.
I dont care if you are rich and white and live in England. Or middle class Australian or anyone.
People who partake in Riots such as this Are indeed lowlife scum that need to be punished. Why would you defend them?
I am every bit supportive of the plight of the african descent french. EXCEPT the ones who are commiting Arson and rioting.
The rioters are not helping themselves or anyone.
Written by: doctor_fandangoWritten by: DoktorSkell
Lowlife scum looking for an excuse to fullfill their disgusting need for violence and destruction.
how dare you say such a hideous thing?? what a dreadful and sickening thing to say when you clearly dont understand the present situation in france. this is a very real problem and people are dying
i realy hope chirac decides to do something to make the riots stop before more lives are lost, and that he realieses you cant put people in boxes and beat them, then expect them to sit there and take it forever. these are people who's grand parents moved to france from north africa and various other places around. THEY ARE BLOODY FRENCH!!!! they were born in france, the speak french, they have french names. yet they are referred to as "imigrants", i have seen the situation that these people are 'living' in. its troubling that in a country as well developed and economically strong as france , there are people living in such conditions. i realy hope that chirac will see where the problem lies and remove the problem members of parliment , before the situation escelates further
Looks like there has been a grave misunderstanding of the meaning of my comment.
I did not make that comment because of their nationality.
I did not make that comment because of the colour of their skin.
i did not make that comment because of their socio economic status.
I made that comment directed at the individuals in France who are Taking to the streets at night, burning cars and buildings, throwing Molotov Cocktails at Police, and countless other crimes.
I dont care if you are rich and white and live in England. Or middle class Australian or anyone.
People who partake in Riots such as this Are indeed lowlife scum that need to be punished. Why would you defend them?
I am every bit supportive of the plight of the african descent french. EXCEPT the ones who are commiting Arson and rioting.
The rioters are not helping themselves or anyone.
Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
but they may be of the opinion that nothing will help them. and at that point, why do they care? Its a lofty ideal to think you'll do good even in a hopeless situation, but most people can't or at least don't and i'm sure most of the rioting youth/etc see their situation as hopeless... not without good reason considering their life expiriences.
They arn't seeing things from our perspective, and i don't think condeming them out of hand because of how they were raised is probably the best of all solutions...
(and yes, it wasn't clear how you were meaning low life scum ^_^)
but they may be of the opinion that nothing will help them. and at that point, why do they care? Its a lofty ideal to think you'll do good even in a hopeless situation, but most people can't or at least don't and i'm sure most of the rioting youth/etc see their situation as hopeless... not without good reason considering their life expiriences.
They arn't seeing things from our perspective, and i don't think condeming them out of hand because of how they were raised is probably the best of all solutions...
(and yes, it wasn't clear how you were meaning low life scum ^_^)
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
So, DoktorSkell, does that mean you would never support violent protest to change a government's policies? Just curious.
So, DoktorSkell, does that mean you would never support violent protest to change a government's policies? Just curious.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm not sure there was necessarily misunderstanding- you said
maybe it's not a coincidence that most of the rioters happen to be poor, and of immigrant stock?
ie they're rioting not because they happen to like destruction, but because they have crap lives, experience prejudice and feel they have no opportunity to make things better for themselves and their families.
Generally, when these things build up, they tend to explode into riots, which act as a message to society, to address issues that it's been sweeping under the carpet.
From some of the news reports coming out recently, it's looking like France does need to address some of the issues with how it treats its immigrant/poor communities.
Actually, they probably are. Without the riots, things would have gone on exactly as they always have.
Now the riots have happened, the French governent has more incentive to address the plight of these communities.
And, if French society has a whole is racist in the way that some reports seem to be suggesting, the riots ensure that this is brought to the attention of the world in general.
Written by: DoktorSkell
Looks like there has been a grave misunderstanding of the meaning of my comment.
I did not make that comment because of their nationality.
I did not make that comment because of the colour of their skin.
i did not make that comment because of their socio economic status.
I'm not sure there was necessarily misunderstanding- you said
Written by: DoktorSkell
Lowlife scum looking for an excuse to fullfill their disgusting need for violence and destruction.
maybe it's not a coincidence that most of the rioters happen to be poor, and of immigrant stock?
ie they're rioting not because they happen to like destruction, but because they have crap lives, experience prejudice and feel they have no opportunity to make things better for themselves and their families.
Generally, when these things build up, they tend to explode into riots, which act as a message to society, to address issues that it's been sweeping under the carpet.
From some of the news reports coming out recently, it's looking like France does need to address some of the issues with how it treats its immigrant/poor communities.
Written by: DoktorSkell
The rioters are not helping themselves or anyone.
Actually, they probably are. Without the riots, things would have gone on exactly as they always have.
Now the riots have happened, the French governent has more incentive to address the plight of these communities.
And, if French society has a whole is racist in the way that some reports seem to be suggesting, the riots ensure that this is brought to the attention of the world in general.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
addict
475 posts
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia
addict
475 posts
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia
Posted:
No i wouldnt. because violence is wrong.
You people are defending criminals. i cant stand it
Written by: Sethis
So, DoktorSkell, does that mean you would never support violent protest to change a government's policies? Just curious.
No i wouldnt. because violence is wrong.
You people are defending criminals. i cant stand it
Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I don't think anyone's especially defending the rioters; just pointing out that this could be a simple matter of causation- if a portion of the population is left to rot, with no opportunities, no equality, no chance of making things better for your family; then it's inevitable that eventually, they'll kick off.
(OK, to say no chance, is perhaps going a but far, but definitly a much reduced chance. If you happen to be very good at football for example, it won't matter that you're black, but, when it comes to wanting to be a politician, or just do a normal job, then, according to some accounts, France is not a good place to be).
Does saying that constitute defending criminals?
Can it not be argued that a system which is prejudiced and racist, is not equally criminal?
(note that I'm not saying France is racist (I don't live there and don't know what it is like), just reiterating what some of the news accounts have been saying; and, pointing out that, if it's true, then it's not surprising that riots have broken out, and that said rioters are only part of an equation which includes bad govt.policies and a disregard for social equality).
I don't think anyone's especially defending the rioters; just pointing out that this could be a simple matter of causation- if a portion of the population is left to rot, with no opportunities, no equality, no chance of making things better for your family; then it's inevitable that eventually, they'll kick off.
(OK, to say no chance, is perhaps going a but far, but definitly a much reduced chance. If you happen to be very good at football for example, it won't matter that you're black, but, when it comes to wanting to be a politician, or just do a normal job, then, according to some accounts, France is not a good place to be).
Does saying that constitute defending criminals?
Can it not be argued that a system which is prejudiced and racist, is not equally criminal?
(note that I'm not saying France is racist (I don't live there and don't know what it is like), just reiterating what some of the news accounts have been saying; and, pointing out that, if it's true, then it's not surprising that riots have broken out, and that said rioters are only part of an equation which includes bad govt.policies and a disregard for social equality).
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
You seriously believe that?
Violence is often justified. "What's that? You're trying to rape me? Go ahead."
"What's that? You want to invade my country? Sure!"
Violence is sometimes wrong.
Written by: DoktorSkell
No i wouldnt. because violence is wrong.
You seriously believe that?
Violence is often justified. "What's that? You're trying to rape me? Go ahead."
"What's that? You want to invade my country? Sure!"
Violence is sometimes wrong.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
I might have missed it somewhere in all the text...but does anyone know which immigrant nationalities are involved? I know people are trying to get rid of segregating people into ethnic background, but I have reason for worrying about a certain immigrant ethnicity in France...
I might have missed it somewhere in all the text...but does anyone know which immigrant nationalities are involved? I know people are trying to get rid of segregating people into ethnic background, but I have reason for worrying about a certain immigrant ethnicity in France...
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
former colonies... Marocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Mali etc
former colonies... Marocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Mali etc
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
Posted:
having struggled to write a concise, non-abusive response to this for several minutes -
you are so very lucky to be able to see things in black and white.
perhaps the reason for this is that you've never been in a situation where violence is the only answer. once again, you are very lucky.
however because of your beliefs you can only see the problems of the world in black and white. this means that you will always be restricted and never understand the greater intricacies of problems like this.
i honestly never thought i'd find myself standing up for violence. it is abhorrent to me but it is not always wrong.
Written by: DoktorSkell
No i wouldnt. because violence is wrong.
You people are defending criminals. i cant stand it
having struggled to write a concise, non-abusive response to this for several minutes -
you are so very lucky to be able to see things in black and white.
perhaps the reason for this is that you've never been in a situation where violence is the only answer. once again, you are very lucky.
however because of your beliefs you can only see the problems of the world in black and white. this means that you will always be restricted and never understand the greater intricacies of problems like this.
i honestly never thought i'd find myself standing up for violence. it is abhorrent to me but it is not always wrong.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
ok, so there doesn't seem to be any involving immigrants from Eastern Europe...?
Written by: Birgit
former colonies... Marocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Mali etc
ok, so there doesn't seem to be any involving immigrants from Eastern Europe...?
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Not as far as I know...
we kind of get that in Germany though, we used to let everyone with German ancestry return when the borders were open again. It started with those from actually German-speaking villages in Romania, Russia, Bulgaria, Poland etc, and then attracted those who hadn't spoken German in ages, but had some German ancestor somewhere in the past. The kids now feel quite alienated and stay amongst themselves, and there's lots of reports of drunk foolishness and even some knife fights among the groups (as well as molesting old ladies on their way to church in my little town), but nothing near as bad as in France.
Why do you ask?
Not as far as I know...
we kind of get that in Germany though, we used to let everyone with German ancestry return when the borders were open again. It started with those from actually German-speaking villages in Romania, Russia, Bulgaria, Poland etc, and then attracted those who hadn't spoken German in ages, but had some German ancestor somewhere in the past. The kids now feel quite alienated and stay amongst themselves, and there's lots of reports of drunk foolishness and even some knife fights among the groups (as well as molesting old ladies on their way to church in my little town), but nothing near as bad as in France.
Why do you ask?
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
Member
8 posts
Location: liverpool/somerset, United Kingdom
Member
8 posts
Location: liverpool/somerset, United Kingdom
Posted:
If we ignore the motivations, violence is always wrong; a man stabs another man, a woman steals some jewellery, a kid blows up a car. 'Reasonable' members of 'polite' society will accept that these things are wrong, and by extension, so are these riots.
However, what if the man who was stabbed was holding a gun to a baby's head, or if that woman stole jewellery in order to pay for food, and that kid blew up a car in a political protest. Then, a lot of people would acept that, if legitimate, these cirmustances would mitigate the offence. But does this lessen the moral crime, or the legal crime?
Furthermore, violence is only one means of political protest, and it is in this way that i find myself agreeing with doctorskell, albeit partially. Peaceful protest is just as an effective means of gaining public attentino, but it is harder. Furthermore, today, protest is invariably violent; we see bombings, but few marches. The public only sees the violence.
In the absence of awareness, we must remember that passive resistance does not come naturally to many, and it is a far braver man who can await a blow without flinching, than the one committing the act of violence.
If we ignore the motivations, violence is always wrong; a man stabs another man, a woman steals some jewellery, a kid blows up a car. 'Reasonable' members of 'polite' society will accept that these things are wrong, and by extension, so are these riots.
However, what if the man who was stabbed was holding a gun to a baby's head, or if that woman stole jewellery in order to pay for food, and that kid blew up a car in a political protest. Then, a lot of people would acept that, if legitimate, these cirmustances would mitigate the offence. But does this lessen the moral crime, or the legal crime?
Furthermore, violence is only one means of political protest, and it is in this way that i find myself agreeing with doctorskell, albeit partially. Peaceful protest is just as an effective means of gaining public attentino, but it is harder. Furthermore, today, protest is invariably violent; we see bombings, but few marches. The public only sees the violence.
In the absence of awareness, we must remember that passive resistance does not come naturally to many, and it is a far braver man who can await a blow without flinching, than the one committing the act of violence.
Spielkind and proud of it!
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Yes it does. There are perfectly legitimate reasons for violence. Reasons 1 and 2 of your 3 examples prove that.
Is it just me, or are these two thing mutually exclusive? If the public only sees the violence, then surely it's doing a better job of bringing the issues to the attention of the world? I doubt we would have heard about France on the International news if it was some students sitting around on people's businesses.
Yeah, but who's the one left standing?
Written by: nazgob
But does this lessen the moral crime, or the legal crime?
Yes it does. There are perfectly legitimate reasons for violence. Reasons 1 and 2 of your 3 examples prove that.
Written by: nazgob
Peaceful protest is just as an effective means of gaining public attention
Written by: nazgob
The public only sees the violence.
Is it just me, or are these two thing mutually exclusive? If the public only sees the violence, then surely it's doing a better job of bringing the issues to the attention of the world? I doubt we would have heard about France on the International news if it was some students sitting around on people's businesses.
Written by: nazgob
and it is a far braver man who can await a blow without flinching, than the one committing the act of violence.
Yeah, but who's the one left standing?
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
My ex-boyfriend is in France. He's Romanian.
Written by: Birgit
Not as far as I know...
we kind of get that in Germany though, we used to let everyone with German ancestry return when the borders were open again. It started with those from actually German-speaking villages in Romania, Russia, Bulgaria, Poland etc, and then attracted those who hadn't spoken German in ages, but had some German ancestor somewhere in the past. The kids now feel quite alienated and stay amongst themselves, and there's lots of reports of drunk foolishness and even some knife fights among the groups (as well as molesting old ladies on their way to church in my little town), but nothing near as bad as in France.
Why do you ask?
My ex-boyfriend is in France. He's Romanian.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
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