Forums > Social Discussion > Competitiveness
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Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted:
I've just been thinking about this after reading some posts on various messageboards (both spinny and non-spinny) and thought I'd see what everyone elses oppinions are.
Everything (as far as I can see) always becomes competitive at some point. Whether this is in education (competing with peers for the best grades) or an art form (such as poi) or anything else this always seems to be the case.
As a DJ I've grown to despise this. I've been mixing for years BUT have never felt the need to 'prove myself' in a DJ competition. I just dont see competition as being part of the art. Instead I like to encourage co-operation. Playing back to back (a couple of records each) with someone is far more fun to all involved (DJ's and the audience). I see playing this way as a learning experience where you can pick up tips from the other person and combine your skills so that you both improve. In the early days of hip-hop DJ's used to meet for 'jam sessions'. Now people just compete for an audiences approval.
One of the things that first attracted me to poi (,staff, devilstick, etc) was the feeling that the majority of people who are involved in these art forms share my love of, well, sharing. At first it seemed as though everyone I met was only interested in helping each other get better at whatever skill they wanted to learn. However the attitude mentioned in [Old link] has become more and more apparent to me. There seem to be so many people setting up competitions to decide 'who is the best'. This seems to go against what spining is for me. I like to see people that have amazing skills but I dont think that we need to compete for this.
I am generally anti-competitive. I dont believe that it helps in any situation. I believe in co-operation and the sharing of ideas to adapt and improve them. 'Two heads are better than one' and all the other cliche's.
I actually think my my views on this were caused by my school years where I was pretty much forced by my teachers to compete with everyone else in the school and my county. When I was in upper school (13 - 16yrs old) I was actually awarded prizes for certain subjects but turned them down on the principal that I didnt see the point of being singled out purely because I was good at *X subject*. (I was, as far as I know, the only student in my school ever to do this.) Learning is the whole point of education is it not? Why should you get prizes for achieving what everyone else has to a slightly different degree?
International sporting competitions seem to fuel xenophobia. National ones cause entire towns to be prejudiced against people from other places for pathetic reasons (just look at football - your nearest neighbour is normally your most hated enemy).
Competition just seems to breed contempt.
Does anyone else share my view or am I just a bit odd?
I've just been thinking about this after reading some posts on various messageboards (both spinny and non-spinny) and thought I'd see what everyone elses oppinions are.
Everything (as far as I can see) always becomes competitive at some point. Whether this is in education (competing with peers for the best grades) or an art form (such as poi) or anything else this always seems to be the case.
As a DJ I've grown to despise this. I've been mixing for years BUT have never felt the need to 'prove myself' in a DJ competition. I just dont see competition as being part of the art. Instead I like to encourage co-operation. Playing back to back (a couple of records each) with someone is far more fun to all involved (DJ's and the audience). I see playing this way as a learning experience where you can pick up tips from the other person and combine your skills so that you both improve. In the early days of hip-hop DJ's used to meet for 'jam sessions'. Now people just compete for an audiences approval.
One of the things that first attracted me to poi (,staff, devilstick, etc) was the feeling that the majority of people who are involved in these art forms share my love of, well, sharing. At first it seemed as though everyone I met was only interested in helping each other get better at whatever skill they wanted to learn. However the attitude mentioned in [Old link] has become more and more apparent to me. There seem to be so many people setting up competitions to decide 'who is the best'. This seems to go against what spining is for me. I like to see people that have amazing skills but I dont think that we need to compete for this.
I am generally anti-competitive. I dont believe that it helps in any situation. I believe in co-operation and the sharing of ideas to adapt and improve them. 'Two heads are better than one' and all the other cliche's.
I actually think my my views on this were caused by my school years where I was pretty much forced by my teachers to compete with everyone else in the school and my county. When I was in upper school (13 - 16yrs old) I was actually awarded prizes for certain subjects but turned them down on the principal that I didnt see the point of being singled out purely because I was good at *X subject*. (I was, as far as I know, the only student in my school ever to do this.) Learning is the whole point of education is it not? Why should you get prizes for achieving what everyone else has to a slightly different degree?
International sporting competitions seem to fuel xenophobia. National ones cause entire towns to be prejudiced against people from other places for pathetic reasons (just look at football - your nearest neighbour is normally your most hated enemy).
Competition just seems to breed contempt.
Does anyone else share my view or am I just a bit odd?
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Rest well and.... Good morning.
I agree with your most recient post. Competition and being the best are two different things and I agree with you when it comes to people trying to be better than someone else.
On that note, I personally like parise, but I don't hunt for it. I have been caled the best, and it was nice. I didn't strive for it, it just happoned. I used to (and still do) teach poi at juggling festivals hoping to find someone better than me that I could learn something from. Not to be better than them, but to better myself which I find enjoyable allong with teaching. Like new colors available to a painter I like having more to do when I spin.
Egocentric competition as you mention is not what I like or strive for, but competition to better ones self for your own enjoyment is a goal of mine.
Good night.
Rest well and.... Good morning.
I agree with your most recient post. Competition and being the best are two different things and I agree with you when it comes to people trying to be better than someone else.
On that note, I personally like parise, but I don't hunt for it. I have been caled the best, and it was nice. I didn't strive for it, it just happoned. I used to (and still do) teach poi at juggling festivals hoping to find someone better than me that I could learn something from. Not to be better than them, but to better myself which I find enjoyable allong with teaching. Like new colors available to a painter I like having more to do when I spin.
Egocentric competition as you mention is not what I like or strive for, but competition to better ones self for your own enjoyment is a goal of mine.
Good night.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
SILVER Member
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted:
Morning
I agree, its nice to receive praise. To be told that you are good at something (regardless of who its by and what for) is always a good feeling.
I love it when I'm DJ'ing and the people on the dancefloor are enjoying it. In fact I dont think I can describe looking out over the dancefloor as a tune breaks and everyone goes nuts - it is an amazing experience.
Again though - I dont think that has anything to do with how good the DJ's before and after me happen to be. It is simply a measure of how well I am connecting with the people in that room.
I always tend to find with spinning that people learn different 'tricks' at different rates. I have been spinning for just over a year and can do loads of different hyperloops and airwraps - I love them so I just practised hard at them. Other people may have perfected flowers or btb moves but not concentrated on loops at all. Thats why I dont see that you can say any one person is better than the next. I do watch people and think 'Damn you're good!" (BamBam for example!) but someone who has only been spinning a few weeks could come along and show the well trained spinner a new trick.
It is inevitable that in artistic skills people will develop different styles. So we shouldnt be thinking in terms of who is the best but learning from, and enjoying the skills of, everyone we meet.
Again hope that made sense.
Morning
I agree, its nice to receive praise. To be told that you are good at something (regardless of who its by and what for) is always a good feeling.
I love it when I'm DJ'ing and the people on the dancefloor are enjoying it. In fact I dont think I can describe looking out over the dancefloor as a tune breaks and everyone goes nuts - it is an amazing experience.
Again though - I dont think that has anything to do with how good the DJ's before and after me happen to be. It is simply a measure of how well I am connecting with the people in that room.
I always tend to find with spinning that people learn different 'tricks' at different rates. I have been spinning for just over a year and can do loads of different hyperloops and airwraps - I love them so I just practised hard at them. Other people may have perfected flowers or btb moves but not concentrated on loops at all. Thats why I dont see that you can say any one person is better than the next. I do watch people and think 'Damn you're good!" (BamBam for example!) but someone who has only been spinning a few weeks could come along and show the well trained spinner a new trick.
It is inevitable that in artistic skills people will develop different styles. So we shouldnt be thinking in terms of who is the best but learning from, and enjoying the skills of, everyone we meet.
Again hope that made sense.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
It's talent, Ben. Mike Phelps is 6'8" and has hands like paddles. He's built to be the fastest swimmer in the world. I'm not.
Written by: ben-ja-men
what would you put it down to then mike? is there/was there room for improvement in your technique/body conditioning or is your technique pretty damn close to perfection and theres some other reason that you never got that fast?
It's talent, Ben. Mike Phelps is 6'8" and has hands like paddles. He's built to be the fastest swimmer in the world. I'm not.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Judegment, assessment, competition... all depends on criteria. So when the good Doctor says someone is the 'best' swimmer in the world, we probalby assume that to mean 'fastest over a given distance': cos that's the currently popular criteria of that particular form of competition. There could be other criteria (how much water can you displece or many prayers you can you say while swimming a lap? That might make the slowest the "best")
In the world of poi,skateboarding or whatever, competitions reinforce certain criteria for praise. The kiddies alway say
"that was an awesome spin" if I spin fast. Other peeps might think I'm crap cos my planes ar shot, my costume isn't good, I don't look as pretty or whatever.
There are so many variations of style, and possible criteria in this artform: one of the dangers that would immediately spring up if the scenes get into competitions,prize money etc is narrowing of these 'praiseworthy' criteria. People start 'perfecting' just some aspects
"best endurance with ribbon poi over 24kms"
"best able to complete burn with hair on fire"
"best unintelligible name for trick performed while standing still"
any other suggestions?
Judegment, assessment, competition... all depends on criteria. So when the good Doctor says someone is the 'best' swimmer in the world, we probalby assume that to mean 'fastest over a given distance': cos that's the currently popular criteria of that particular form of competition. There could be other criteria (how much water can you displece or many prayers you can you say while swimming a lap? That might make the slowest the "best")
In the world of poi,skateboarding or whatever, competitions reinforce certain criteria for praise. The kiddies alway say
"that was an awesome spin" if I spin fast. Other peeps might think I'm crap cos my planes ar shot, my costume isn't good, I don't look as pretty or whatever.
There are so many variations of style, and possible criteria in this artform: one of the dangers that would immediately spring up if the scenes get into competitions,prize money etc is narrowing of these 'praiseworthy' criteria. People start 'perfecting' just some aspects
"best endurance with ribbon poi over 24kms"
"best able to complete burn with hair on fire"
"best unintelligible name for trick performed while standing still"
any other suggestions?
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
BRONZE Member
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
Posted:
Direct competition is one of the basic blocks of life. Striving for excellence is a natural thing.
Do you have a problem with healthy competition? Or do you believe that such a thing does not exist?
In my never humble opinion, competition is an incentive, its a reason to push yourself harder than you normally have to. Its a valid means to an end, a way of improving yourself and the others around you.
For example, have you ever played one of those games with a highscore counter? It is more fun to beat (or be beaten by) someone else. It means that you have to strive to acheive something better than your previuos best, purely because your previous best has been surpassed. Without the healthy competition, you lose interest very quickly.
That said, competition is useless if you are unbeatable. Take chess for example, if you are familiar with the game, then you will know that the most improvement comes after being beaten, and realising where you went wrong. If you are never beaten, then you cannot improve, as your best is good enough. Thats when competition becomes really important. When you play other people, who have a healthy competitive streak, they will gradually improve, while you remain fairly stagnant. Then one day, your best is no longer good enough, and you need to raise the bar. Without competition, there is little room for improvement.
But these are games. In any art form, competition is only in the eyes of the competitor. If you are uninterested in competition then it should not affect you. If you are competitive though, you will try to improve your art so that it is on a par with the best around you. It should work on a continuing system, one will improve, the other surpass, and be surpassed in return. On and on, until both reach their peak...
Competition does not exist so that you can be happy with yourself by being better than others, its exists so that you will improve yourself for your own sake. And what can possibly be wrong with that?
Written by: Seye
I dont understand why people feel a need to prove that they are better than anyone else.
I just dont get direct competition.
I also dont understand why people feel that they need to compare their skills to those of others to be happy with themselves.
Direct competition is one of the basic blocks of life. Striving for excellence is a natural thing.
Do you have a problem with healthy competition? Or do you believe that such a thing does not exist?
In my never humble opinion, competition is an incentive, its a reason to push yourself harder than you normally have to. Its a valid means to an end, a way of improving yourself and the others around you.
For example, have you ever played one of those games with a highscore counter? It is more fun to beat (or be beaten by) someone else. It means that you have to strive to acheive something better than your previuos best, purely because your previous best has been surpassed. Without the healthy competition, you lose interest very quickly.
That said, competition is useless if you are unbeatable. Take chess for example, if you are familiar with the game, then you will know that the most improvement comes after being beaten, and realising where you went wrong. If you are never beaten, then you cannot improve, as your best is good enough. Thats when competition becomes really important. When you play other people, who have a healthy competitive streak, they will gradually improve, while you remain fairly stagnant. Then one day, your best is no longer good enough, and you need to raise the bar. Without competition, there is little room for improvement.
But these are games. In any art form, competition is only in the eyes of the competitor. If you are uninterested in competition then it should not affect you. If you are competitive though, you will try to improve your art so that it is on a par with the best around you. It should work on a continuing system, one will improve, the other surpass, and be surpassed in return. On and on, until both reach their peak...
Competition does not exist so that you can be happy with yourself by being better than others, its exists so that you will improve yourself for your own sake. And what can possibly be wrong with that?
I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.
SILVER Member
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted:
No, you see this is what I dont get.
I dont think that striving for excellence has anything to do with competition and I believe that cooperation is a much more natural thing. Why else would we have been living in communities for thousands of years?
I also think that people who concentrate all of their efforts on one area and 'strive for excellence' are wasting their lives because they miss out on so much else. Variety is the spice of life as they say. You can be extremely good at many things as long as you dont narrow your sights too much.
I dont believe in healthy competition. i.e. the space race - we'd all be in a much better position if we had all worked on it together rather than getting petty about it and going "bet we do it before you". In fact we'd probably have a fully working and useful space station by now.
Professional sport is much the same. These people are not playing because they enjoy it - they are for too concerned with winning to be actually having fun. They have to train constantly and abstain from anythign that might effect their performance. They have completely killed the entire point of the games. And they are missing so much else by dedicating their lives to something that was originally designed to kill a few hours when people were bored.
You say you see competition as an incentive but why? The incentive is being able to say that you are better than someone else. Thats pure egotistical nonsense.
And yes I have played games with high score counters. Yes they usually are boring after a short period of time. You are enjoying the competition. I realise the game is crap and move on.
I dont understand the logic of wanting to be better than other people. You may have a certain skill that others cant quite grasp to your level. So what?
I get far more enjoyment from helping people with anything I know about than saying 'I beat you'.
In fact you have pretty much summed up what I dont get in that post.
I still dont see why being top of that score sheet is a good thing? What exactly is the pleasure that it brings if its not massaging your ego?
(sorry if this sounds like a rant - its not meant to be - i just cant think of another way to word it )
Written by: Akashla
Direct competition is one of the basic blocks of life. Striving for excellence is a natural thing.
Do you have a problem with healthy competition? Or do you believe that such a thing does not exist?
In my never humble opinion, competition is an incentive, its a reason to push yourself harder than you normally have to. Its a valid means to an end, a way of improving yourself and the others around you.
For example, have you ever played one of those games with a highscore counter? It is more fun to beat (or be beaten by) someone else. It means that you have to strive to acheive something better than your previuos best, purely because your previous best has been surpassed. Without the healthy competition, you lose interest very quickly.
No, you see this is what I dont get.
I dont think that striving for excellence has anything to do with competition and I believe that cooperation is a much more natural thing. Why else would we have been living in communities for thousands of years?
I also think that people who concentrate all of their efforts on one area and 'strive for excellence' are wasting their lives because they miss out on so much else. Variety is the spice of life as they say. You can be extremely good at many things as long as you dont narrow your sights too much.
I dont believe in healthy competition. i.e. the space race - we'd all be in a much better position if we had all worked on it together rather than getting petty about it and going "bet we do it before you". In fact we'd probably have a fully working and useful space station by now.
Professional sport is much the same. These people are not playing because they enjoy it - they are for too concerned with winning to be actually having fun. They have to train constantly and abstain from anythign that might effect their performance. They have completely killed the entire point of the games. And they are missing so much else by dedicating their lives to something that was originally designed to kill a few hours when people were bored.
You say you see competition as an incentive but why? The incentive is being able to say that you are better than someone else. Thats pure egotistical nonsense.
And yes I have played games with high score counters. Yes they usually are boring after a short period of time. You are enjoying the competition. I realise the game is crap and move on.
I dont understand the logic of wanting to be better than other people. You may have a certain skill that others cant quite grasp to your level. So what?
I get far more enjoyment from helping people with anything I know about than saying 'I beat you'.
In fact you have pretty much summed up what I dont get in that post.
I still dont see why being top of that score sheet is a good thing? What exactly is the pleasure that it brings if its not massaging your ego?
(sorry if this sounds like a rant - its not meant to be - i just cant think of another way to word it
) BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Competition if varied is good. Like if you had weekly competitions in all subjects at school, then someone who sucked at maths (like me) could get hammered in that test, but do well in English or R.E.
National competition is idiotic. Cold War anyone? Was that good? The space race was pointless, I mean, why even bother? How many billions of currency spent on claiming a dead rock orbiting our planet. Woot. Now how about spending it on education, or healthcare or indeed just about *anything* else? What's the big deal about space? If there was another inhabitable planet in our Solar system, then I could understand it, but there isn't so...
And competition is useless in a purely artistic arena. I think Picasso sucks. And I think Beethoven is boring. But I like Mozart and Brahms. How are you supposed to "judge" that? At Fal 4 then I was *very* impressed with Mags. I was also impressed with Meg. Anyone want to try and tell me which was better? Meg is amazing at doubles, Mags rocks at contact. Which do you prize?
I think humans would evolve faster with teamwork then with competition.
Competition if varied is good. Like if you had weekly competitions in all subjects at school, then someone who sucked at maths (like me) could get hammered in that test, but do well in English or R.E.
National competition is idiotic. Cold War anyone? Was that good? The space race was pointless, I mean, why even bother? How many billions of currency spent on claiming a dead rock orbiting our planet. Woot. Now how about spending it on education, or healthcare or indeed just about *anything* else? What's the big deal about space? If there was another inhabitable planet in our Solar system, then I could understand it, but there isn't so...
And competition is useless in a purely artistic arena. I think Picasso sucks. And I think Beethoven is boring. But I like Mozart and Brahms. How are you supposed to "judge" that? At Fal 4 then I was *very* impressed with Mags. I was also impressed with Meg. Anyone want to try and tell me which was better? Meg is amazing at doubles, Mags rocks at contact. Which do you prize?
I think humans would evolve faster with teamwork then with competition.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
Posted:
Everything has its equal and oppposite. I dont want to get into a discussion about human nature, so i'll try to avoid that. But in nature there is competition. Taller tress get more light and grow faster. Faster animals catch slower animals. All over the planet, life competes against life, in a battle to survive. hence my point, competition in natural. However, cooperation is also necessary, symbiotic realtionships are paramount. Humans are possibly the only species who are not affected directly by the species they affect (but our time will come too, i think). We co-operate so that as a species we can compete with the world around us.
I agree entirely. When i use the term 'strive for excellence' i do not mean that you have to be better than everybody else, bar none. I mean that you should realise your own full potential, in as many areas as possible.
But then look at the amount of amateurs, the number of men, women and children who also play, who still get the enjoyment out of it? Do they not enjoy the competitive aspect? Friendlies, minor leagues, teacher vs student etc etc? They have loads of fun, win or lose.
It is your attitude towards the competition that is wrong, not the competition itself.
I explained my meaning in the previous post, competition is a reason to push yourself harder than you normally have to. Its a way of improving yourself and the others around you.
We realise its crap too. We just dont care. Its not just competition, its comarderie, its passing the time, having some fun. Im equally happy playing a two player co-operative game, but even in that you are competing against something. Co-operation and competition, hand in hand again.
Maybe i wasnt clear in my previous post.
But its not about telling someone you beat them, because youre suposed to get over that once you reach double figures. You dont keep an ongoing tally. And of course you help people if you can. Thats how they improve. So maybe one day you can learn something from them. Thats the point, its a learning experience, one of the fastest, easiest and most fun ways of assimilating information.
Maybe you dont have a competitive streak, so you just wont be able to understand it in others. But i doubt that. Every argument is rooted in competitiveness, the desire to prove your point valid, or to be shown the error of your ways. Otherwise, we would agree to differ. So maybe your urge to compete is just exhibiting in ways you havent noticed?
Written by: Seye
I dont think that striving for excellence has anything to do with competition and I believe that cooperation is a much more natural thing. Why else would we have been living in communities for thousands of years?
Everything has its equal and oppposite. I dont want to get into a discussion about human nature, so i'll try to avoid that. But in nature there is competition. Taller tress get more light and grow faster. Faster animals catch slower animals. All over the planet, life competes against life, in a battle to survive. hence my point, competition in natural. However, cooperation is also necessary, symbiotic realtionships are paramount. Humans are possibly the only species who are not affected directly by the species they affect (but our time will come too, i think). We co-operate so that as a species we can compete with the world around us.
Written by: Seye
Variety is the spice of life as they say. You can be extremely good at many things as long as you dont narrow your sights too much.
I agree entirely. When i use the term 'strive for excellence' i do not mean that you have to be better than everybody else, bar none. I mean that you should realise your own full potential, in as many areas as possible.
Written by: Seye
Professional sport is much the same. These people are not playing because they enjoy it - they are for too concerned with winning to be actually having fun.
But then look at the amount of amateurs, the number of men, women and children who also play, who still get the enjoyment out of it? Do they not enjoy the competitive aspect? Friendlies, minor leagues, teacher vs student etc etc? They have loads of fun, win or lose.
It is your attitude towards the competition that is wrong, not the competition itself.
Written by: Seye
You say you see competition as an incentive but why?
I explained my meaning in the previous post, competition is a reason to push yourself harder than you normally have to. Its a way of improving yourself and the others around you.
Written by: Seye
I realise the game is crap and move on.
We realise its crap too. We just dont care. Its not just competition, its comarderie, its passing the time, having some fun. Im equally happy playing a two player co-operative game, but even in that you are competing against something. Co-operation and competition, hand in hand again.
Maybe i wasnt clear in my previous post.
But its not about telling someone you beat them, because youre suposed to get over that once you reach double figures. You dont keep an ongoing tally. And of course you help people if you can. Thats how they improve. So maybe one day you can learn something from them. Thats the point, its a learning experience, one of the fastest, easiest and most fun ways of assimilating information.
Maybe you dont have a competitive streak, so you just wont be able to understand it in others. But i doubt that. Every argument is rooted in competitiveness, the desire to prove your point valid, or to be shown the error of your ways. Otherwise, we would agree to differ. So maybe your urge to compete is just exhibiting in ways you havent noticed?
I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
Posted:
wow, what a great post! I just jumped in for the last one, impressed...
There is room for both competition and cooperation, both are natural, and can support our development as individuals and within a community.
I think I would not agree that competitiveness is at the root of all arguments though. Sometimes it is not about making or breaking a point, some people are interested in the process.What information unfolds, and how.
That interest in process can underly both cooperative and competitive activities, and I feel it is more important than either definition. So, within either paradigm one can find comaraderie, challenge, the motivation to push ones skills and boundaries....
Don't know if this is mentionned anywhere earlier, so excuse me if it is redundant. Just want to point out that we should teach kids to be interested and happy within the being/doing stages, as much as outcome, whether it be in a competitive or cooperative environment. Overemphasising one or another in their education may put them at a disadvantage.Pushing competition exclusively certainly puts whole communities/cultures at a disadvantage. If one learns to be fully present and develop themselves within both approaches, it is more likely to a satisfying experience, and in time also help to build a strongly connected, skilled and motivated community.
Interesting subject! Thanks!
wow, what a great post! I just jumped in for the last one, impressed...
There is room for both competition and cooperation, both are natural, and can support our development as individuals and within a community.
I think I would not agree that competitiveness is at the root of all arguments though. Sometimes it is not about making or breaking a point, some people are interested in the process.What information unfolds, and how.
That interest in process can underly both cooperative and competitive activities, and I feel it is more important than either definition. So, within either paradigm one can find comaraderie, challenge, the motivation to push ones skills and boundaries....
Don't know if this is mentionned anywhere earlier, so excuse me if it is redundant. Just want to point out that we should teach kids to be interested and happy within the being/doing stages, as much as outcome, whether it be in a competitive or cooperative environment. Overemphasising one or another in their education may put them at a disadvantage.Pushing competition exclusively certainly puts whole communities/cultures at a disadvantage. If one learns to be fully present and develop themselves within both approaches, it is more likely to a satisfying experience, and in time also help to build a strongly connected, skilled and motivated community.
Interesting subject! Thanks!
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
SILVER Member
journeyman
59 posts
Location: Los Angeles, USA
journeyman
59 posts
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Posted:
I am going to quote abit now of what Micheal Shurtleff, an acting coach and casting agent has to say on the subject of competing in life and in relationships.
"No games are any fun unless the participants compete. Would you like to play a game of tennis with someonewho won't fight to win? He's no fun to play with. Would you like to play bridge with someone who's indifferent as to whether he takes a trick? He's a bore to play with. Life is a caberet, my friends; you have to compete, or you aren't of any interest to anyone else.
We compete for everything: to tell the funniest story; to be considered the most truthful or sincere, the prettiest, the sexiest, the most reliable. We compete for room on the subway, for enough to eat, for jobs, for love, for affection, for friends, for lovers. There isn't anything for which we don't compete. Competition is healthy. Just as no game is worth the playing unless we compete, so no life activity is worth the doing unless we compete."
Then he talks of how, like here, people are unwilling or unable to accept this as an actuallity.
"Yet most actors refuse to acknowledge this. They don't want to compete. They don't approve of the concept. Evidently we are raised to refuse to acknowledge competition. We think it isn't nice. We frown upon it. Other people may do it, but they are not nice people; nice people like us do not compete. "Competition is healthy" I find more resistance to this concept that to any other."
I agree with this all completely. ON some level everyhting is a competition. That should not be denied but embraced and accepted. This is not to say that one should be a poor sportman about things, that is just rude-- but people should admit that they are competing in everything they do on some level-- then that barrier can be crossed and we can all be good oppents who both support each other and challange one another to rise up to another level.
I am going to quote abit now of what Micheal Shurtleff, an acting coach and casting agent has to say on the subject of competing in life and in relationships.
"No games are any fun unless the participants compete. Would you like to play a game of tennis with someonewho won't fight to win? He's no fun to play with. Would you like to play bridge with someone who's indifferent as to whether he takes a trick? He's a bore to play with. Life is a caberet, my friends; you have to compete, or you aren't of any interest to anyone else.
We compete for everything: to tell the funniest story; to be considered the most truthful or sincere, the prettiest, the sexiest, the most reliable. We compete for room on the subway, for enough to eat, for jobs, for love, for affection, for friends, for lovers. There isn't anything for which we don't compete. Competition is healthy. Just as no game is worth the playing unless we compete, so no life activity is worth the doing unless we compete."
Then he talks of how, like here, people are unwilling or unable to accept this as an actuallity.
"Yet most actors refuse to acknowledge this. They don't want to compete. They don't approve of the concept. Evidently we are raised to refuse to acknowledge competition. We think it isn't nice. We frown upon it. Other people may do it, but they are not nice people; nice people like us do not compete. "Competition is healthy" I find more resistance to this concept that to any other."
I agree with this all completely. ON some level everyhting is a competition. That should not be denied but embraced and accepted. This is not to say that one should be a poor sportman about things, that is just rude-- but people should admit that they are competing in everything they do on some level-- then that barrier can be crossed and we can all be good oppents who both support each other and challange one another to rise up to another level.
Performing marriages, funerals, baptisisms, last rites and absolving the sins for HoPers for-- not very long actually.
BRONZE Member
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
Posted:
I'm Think competition is a good thing NOW AND AGAIN.
I'm not normally a competitive person. When I see someone doing something, and I think they could do it better, I teach them how. I won't stand there and say 'I'm better than you' because I feel it is wrong to do so on so many levels.
With Close friends, however, I enjoy a little bit of light competition. It can be funny. I wouldn't be half as good at anything That I am now if I hadn't had a little friendly competition on the way.
I still really love Jamming on instruments WITH other people, not against them, I really enjoy CJing/spinning with other people.
I think one of the main things that keep me learning more, is so that I am able to teach more. I love the passing on of knowledge. The look on someone's face is priceless when you get them doing a move that they've been trying to get.
I'm Think competition is a good thing NOW AND AGAIN.
I'm not normally a competitive person. When I see someone doing something, and I think they could do it better, I teach them how. I won't stand there and say 'I'm better than you' because I feel it is wrong to do so on so many levels.
With Close friends, however, I enjoy a little bit of light competition. It can be funny. I wouldn't be half as good at anything That I am now if I hadn't had a little friendly competition on the way.
I still really love Jamming on instruments WITH other people, not against them, I really enjoy CJing/spinning with other people.
I think one of the main things that keep me learning more, is so that I am able to teach more. I love the passing on of knowledge. The look on someone's face is priceless when you get them doing a move that they've been trying to get.
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
I agree with most of what he said earlier, but this bit is nonsense. Since my first day at school, I've been encouraged to compete with everyone else in my class, form, year, school, whatever. I hate it. You can't escape from the endless competition forced on you by our education system. You have to win in sports, get top marks in every test.
No-one has realised that winning is not the same as succeeding.
I can do both, one, or neither.
It's in your spare time as well. Why are tournaments the most popular gathering of sports? Rarely do I see two teams congregating to have a game *where no-one really cares who wins*. Of course, the game has to have a winner and loser, but that doesn't mean that it's important. I think it would be wonderful, if at every tournament each team had to split their players with the other side, and play a game with half and half on each team. Maybe then there'd be less fighting.
If you're in competition, you can never relax. You always have to watch, and be aware, and anticipate what other people are doing. From time to time, I'd like to be able to concentrate on what I'm doing, and do it for me. Not for anyone else.
Written by: Azadondo
I am going to quote a bit now of what Micheal Shurtleff, an acting coach and casting agent has to say on the subject of competing in life and in relationships.
"They don't approve of the concept. Evidently we are raised to refuse to acknowledge competition. We think it isn't nice. We frown upon it. Other people may do it, but they are not nice people; nice people like us do not compete. "Competition is healthy" I find more resistance to this concept that to any other."
I agree with most of what he said earlier, but this bit is nonsense. Since my first day at school, I've been encouraged to compete with everyone else in my class, form, year, school, whatever. I hate it. You can't escape from the endless competition forced on you by our education system. You have to win in sports, get top marks in every test.
No-one has realised that winning is not the same as succeeding.
I can do both, one, or neither.
It's in your spare time as well. Why are tournaments the most popular gathering of sports? Rarely do I see two teams congregating to have a game *where no-one really cares who wins*. Of course, the game has to have a winner and loser, but that doesn't mean that it's important. I think it would be wonderful, if at every tournament each team had to split their players with the other side, and play a game with half and half on each team. Maybe then there'd be less fighting.
If you're in competition, you can never relax. You always have to watch, and be aware, and anticipate what other people are doing. From time to time, I'd like to be able to concentrate on what I'm doing, and do it for me. Not for anyone else.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
Posted:
I believe this to be utterly true. However competition drives us to do the best we can do, and make our skills better. Without it we stay on the same plane (unless severly self-motivated) for long periods of time. I believe this to be 'healthy competition', as long as the persons competing still like each other at the end of the day.
Sometimes though people become so obsessed with competition that they sever relationships because of it. And thats clearly unhealthy. At the moment in time when they recieve more gratitude from random strangers for being 'better' than someone else, and having lost a friend in the process, that person need take a long hard look about themselves.
This is one of those debates than will exist forever. Without competitivness I doubt that the technological skills humans posses today would be so advanced, but how many people lost friends in the process? Which is more important? But thats another debate for another time.
Written by: Sethis
If you're in competition, you can never relax. You always have to watch, and be aware, and anticipate what other people are doing. From time to time, I'd like to be able to concentrate on what I'm doing, and do it for me. Not for anyone else.
I believe this to be utterly true. However competition drives us to do the best we can do, and make our skills better. Without it we stay on the same plane (unless severly self-motivated) for long periods of time. I believe this to be 'healthy competition', as long as the persons competing still like each other at the end of the day.
Sometimes though people become so obsessed with competition that they sever relationships because of it. And thats clearly unhealthy. At the moment in time when they recieve more gratitude from random strangers for being 'better' than someone else, and having lost a friend in the process, that person need take a long hard look about themselves.
This is one of those debates than will exist forever. Without competitivness I doubt that the technological skills humans posses today would be so advanced, but how many people lost friends in the process? Which is more important? But thats another debate for another time.
You'll find me on the dance floor
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
id disagree with that, in almost everything i do i try to avoid competting, i fall in the groupd of people at my school classed as clever (i dont beleive i am particularly i just listen but meh) so im constantly having people compare agasint me - i hate it in fact its the main reason im dreding results day this week - not so much for the results but for putting up with people either jublient that they did better or muttering because i did.
while this itself is not the competetion but the sportsmanship of it competition drives it
i find i rarly do anything to beat anyone at it - i do it for the enjoyment of doing it - i spin poi solely for myself, i learn for my own amusment. and that way i achieve my best. it may not be as good as it could be if i was trying 100% all the time - but then i wouldnt enjoy it as much and it wouldnt be my best anymore. it would have lost that joy of learning and working.
Written by: arty farty
However competition drives us to do the best we can do
id disagree with that, in almost everything i do i try to avoid competting, i fall in the groupd of people at my school classed as clever (i dont beleive i am particularly i just listen but meh) so im constantly having people compare agasint me - i hate it in fact its the main reason im dreding results day this week - not so much for the results but for putting up with people either jublient that they did better or muttering because i did.
while this itself is not the competetion but the sportsmanship of it competition drives it
i find i rarly do anything to beat anyone at it - i do it for the enjoyment of doing it - i spin poi solely for myself, i learn for my own amusment. and that way i achieve my best. it may not be as good as it could be if i was trying 100% all the time - but then i wouldnt enjoy it as much and it wouldnt be my best anymore. it would have lost that joy of learning and working.
back
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
Posted:
Sethis, you are so right about the distinction between winning and succeeding... Important observation.
And likewise your objection to the notion of society frowning on competition- I must agree, that seems is a ridiculous idea, at least here in North Amerca. It is all about competition, and dominance is decidedly desireable. People are encouraged to practice one up manship, and be fiercely competitive. Starting with education, then into business, relationships, and even extending to measures of personal achievement. Highly competitive. The entire capitalist society is based on competition! Cooperation gets lost somewhere in kindergarten it seems...
But I can agree that many people prefer not to be open about how far they will go to " Win" .
In general, being competitive ( and better yet, winning ) gets immediate approval. It also has its share of undeniable concrete material rewards. Avoiding this behaviour is very difficult, and you are often seen as a slacker if you dont play the societal game that way. Yet why are we so willing to accept others comparisions and external judgements?Who declares the winners? Why do we believe them? Sometimes they can offer a useful perspective, but they rarely make us happy.
Is the speed someone runs vs someone elses really the most important aspect of their being for us to comment on? Insight into your self, and your own accomplishments should be seen as equally valuable. What does your speed, and what you had to do to get it, mean to you? Now, to me, thats where it gets interesting...
Competition over resources is one area I definately see as detrimental. In many cases we would further our interests as a community far better with cooperative efforts. Support each other in our dreams, lift each other up, rather than stepping on one another to get to the top. But the concept of competition for resources has been heavily ingrained into our society, promoted by those who benefit from the current power balance. They have cultivated an idea that the $$$, food, jobs- whatever- are not sufficient, and we have to fight each other for them, one way or another... Fear based economy. It is a deliberate manipulation. That sounds a little conspiracy theorist, but I just mean that a more even distribution of resources and therefore power is not in the interests of those that already dominate. Of course not. Trouble with competition, is that there is usually a very small amount of so called winners, and a much broader base of " Losers". Surely there are better approaches.
*****
I would suggest that a significant motivation that has no direct relationship to either competition or cooperation is Curiousity. It can profoundly impact how hard and where people push themselves and chose to direct their energy. It can be happily applied in both a competitive and cooperative environment.
That might account for some of our technical developments even as much as competitive behaviour has.
'bye for now...
Sethis, you are so right about the distinction between winning and succeeding... Important observation.
And likewise your objection to the notion of society frowning on competition- I must agree, that seems is a ridiculous idea, at least here in North Amerca. It is all about competition, and dominance is decidedly desireable. People are encouraged to practice one up manship, and be fiercely competitive. Starting with education, then into business, relationships, and even extending to measures of personal achievement. Highly competitive. The entire capitalist society is based on competition! Cooperation gets lost somewhere in kindergarten it seems...
But I can agree that many people prefer not to be open about how far they will go to " Win" .
In general, being competitive ( and better yet, winning ) gets immediate approval. It also has its share of undeniable concrete material rewards. Avoiding this behaviour is very difficult, and you are often seen as a slacker if you dont play the societal game that way. Yet why are we so willing to accept others comparisions and external judgements?Who declares the winners? Why do we believe them? Sometimes they can offer a useful perspective, but they rarely make us happy.
Is the speed someone runs vs someone elses really the most important aspect of their being for us to comment on? Insight into your self, and your own accomplishments should be seen as equally valuable. What does your speed, and what you had to do to get it, mean to you? Now, to me, thats where it gets interesting...
Competition over resources is one area I definately see as detrimental. In many cases we would further our interests as a community far better with cooperative efforts. Support each other in our dreams, lift each other up, rather than stepping on one another to get to the top. But the concept of competition for resources has been heavily ingrained into our society, promoted by those who benefit from the current power balance. They have cultivated an idea that the $$$, food, jobs- whatever- are not sufficient, and we have to fight each other for them, one way or another... Fear based economy. It is a deliberate manipulation. That sounds a little conspiracy theorist, but I just mean that a more even distribution of resources and therefore power is not in the interests of those that already dominate. Of course not. Trouble with competition, is that there is usually a very small amount of so called winners, and a much broader base of " Losers". Surely there are better approaches.
*****
I would suggest that a significant motivation that has no direct relationship to either competition or cooperation is Curiousity. It can profoundly impact how hard and where people push themselves and chose to direct their energy. It can be happily applied in both a competitive and cooperative environment.
That might account for some of our technical developments even as much as competitive behaviour has.
'bye for now...
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
SILVER Member
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
I'm in agreement with Seye here. I think at this point in time competition has to exist because it's party of our evolutionary instinct to propogate and prove ourselves to be the best. That said, there's more to life than evolution. I mean, really, does it matter how much we 'succeed' at least in a competitive sense, in life? We are only a tiny speck in space, in a tiny speck in time.
I know I enjoy firespinning a billion times more when I'm not being watched.
I would really love all people to operative in harmony, but for an entire society to operative without competitiveness, we would need to have a much better understanding of the mind, and how to transcend (NOT suppress) our instinct to be the best. You simply can't force people to live equal lives, as in communism.
I'm in agreement with Seye here. I think at this point in time competition has to exist because it's party of our evolutionary instinct to propogate and prove ourselves to be the best. That said, there's more to life than evolution. I mean, really, does it matter how much we 'succeed' at least in a competitive sense, in life? We are only a tiny speck in space, in a tiny speck in time.
I know I enjoy firespinning a billion times more when I'm not being watched.
I would really love all people to operative in harmony, but for an entire society to operative without competitiveness, we would need to have a much better understanding of the mind, and how to transcend (NOT suppress) our instinct to be the best. You simply can't force people to live equal lives, as in communism.
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
We all seem to be discussing only the extremes so here is a story about the middle betwen cooperation and competition.
A few years back I bagn teaching my youngest student poi. She was 12 years old at the time and had seen my group perform and was hooked. She bagan making her own poi out of rocks and string. When I started teaching her she was so enthralled with the group that she listened to everything I said. She was a pleasure to teach because she would do exactly everything I said and practice for hours between the times I instructed her. She learned fast, and inspired many.
Now she is 14 and after the winter we started up our gatherings again, but she wasn't there. I called her mother to invite her back. Her mother said she wasn't interested in poi anymore because she could do alomst everything I could do.
She felt there was nothing else to learn and that she had reached the top. She had never competed with me untill she felt she had beet me and there was no more fun left, the fun of lerning something new.
A great spinner had become uninspired to continue because there was no competition left, even though there was never any competition in our cooperative classes.
The good news is I gave her a copy of COL5 and told her to watch Joules (sp? sorry) Guess what, she is back spinning and learning past what I could teach her. She isn't competing with Joules, at least untill she can't learn anything else.
I hope this demonstrates invisible competition and how competition can be good.
We all seem to be discussing only the extremes so here is a story about the middle betwen cooperation and competition.
A few years back I bagn teaching my youngest student poi. She was 12 years old at the time and had seen my group perform and was hooked. She bagan making her own poi out of rocks and string. When I started teaching her she was so enthralled with the group that she listened to everything I said. She was a pleasure to teach because she would do exactly everything I said and practice for hours between the times I instructed her. She learned fast, and inspired many.
Now she is 14 and after the winter we started up our gatherings again, but she wasn't there. I called her mother to invite her back. Her mother said she wasn't interested in poi anymore because she could do alomst everything I could do.
She felt there was nothing else to learn and that she had reached the top. She had never competed with me untill she felt she had beet me and there was no more fun left, the fun of lerning something new.
A great spinner had become uninspired to continue because there was no competition left, even though there was never any competition in our cooperative classes.
The good news is I gave her a copy of COL5 and told her to watch Joules (sp? sorry) Guess what, she is back spinning and learning past what I could teach her. She isn't competing with Joules, at least untill she can't learn anything else.
I hope this demonstrates invisible competition and how competition can be good.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Think u have a good point about competition Seye.
I think winning competitions is important for people who feel inadequate. Which is different to the “circle” which, to me, is more about showing off, having fun and raising the bar so to speak.
Get down
Think u have a good point about competition Seye.
I think winning competitions is important for people who feel inadequate. Which is different to the “circle” which, to me, is more about showing off, having fun and raising the bar so to speak.
Get down
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
I think there is a time for competition and that time is when you see some posing macho idiot boy, standing still and doing a stupidly easy move with a fire staff over and over again, with a large crowd watching him. At this point, you have to lay some smackdown on him.
Oh and the other situation where somebody asks to borrow your staff and paraffin, cos they are "really good", "professionals" and have been spinning for "7 years" and will "dazzle you" and turn out to be the aforementioned idiot boy. At which point, your should again lay some smackdown.
Smackdown is king!
I think there is a time for competition and that time is when you see some posing macho idiot boy, standing still and doing a stupidly easy move with a fire staff over and over again, with a large crowd watching him. At this point, you have to lay some smackdown on him.
Oh and the other situation where somebody asks to borrow your staff and paraffin, cos they are "really good", "professionals" and have been spinning for "7 years" and will "dazzle you" and turn out to be the aforementioned idiot boy. At which point, your should again lay some smackdown.
Smackdown is king!
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
Posted:
ok, so each member has to be in competition with each other for this theory to work. if you dont play the game, then you cant win or lose. Perhaps if you did join in on the competition sometimes, then you wouldnt always fall in the ground?
I find the people who start the competitiveness have a lot less personality to offer, hense their need to be great at eveything; because its generally all they have to show us. But that might just be the idiots i knew from school?
Written by: linden rathenWritten by: arty farty
However competition drives us to do the best we can do
id disagree with that, in almost everything i do i try to avoid competting, i fall in the groupd of people at my school
ok, so each member has to be in competition with each other for this theory to work. if you dont play the game, then you cant win or lose. Perhaps if you did join in on the competition sometimes, then you wouldnt always fall in the ground?
I find the people who start the competitiveness have a lot less personality to offer, hense their need to be great at eveything; because its generally all they have to show us. But that might just be the idiots i knew from school?
You'll find me on the dance floor
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
Posted:
I hope the girl you mentionned learns to find some internal motivation to keep her going this time!
What if she is so fortunate to reach the" top", then will she just stop? Or can some one on the way teach her the possibility of developing her own form of movement, from an internal creative drive, form a new personal style or actually contribute to the expansion of the art of poi and performance in some way ? If she think it is all about just mastering what is already out there no wonder it would get boring!
Maybe she needs to take a look at Andy, who expands on the skill base by making new ways of dancing with the poi( connections, two poi, throws, hybrids etc) ,or Matt, Drew, Cole, the whole Uber crowd...
I recall one conversation that went along the lines of the guys were getting bored with poi always making circles, and planted the idea amongst each other to spend some time experimenting to see what other patterns/lines were possible- leading the world of poi into stalls, isolations, wraps, atomics, inversions, " oh my!" The art form benefited hugely by this curiousity based process. I am sure there was an aspect of competition- you would have to ask them, but mostly it was an artistic and physical challenge that caught their imagination-- from what I know.
That could inspire her more to grow rather than simply compete. Or maybe she could compete to see how far she can grow, if that works for her?
Thinking of more people than just her, of course!
Smiles,
Andrea
I hope the girl you mentionned learns to find some internal motivation to keep her going this time!
What if she is so fortunate to reach the" top", then will she just stop? Or can some one on the way teach her the possibility of developing her own form of movement, from an internal creative drive, form a new personal style or actually contribute to the expansion of the art of poi and performance in some way ? If she think it is all about just mastering what is already out there no wonder it would get boring!
Maybe she needs to take a look at Andy, who expands on the skill base by making new ways of dancing with the poi( connections, two poi, throws, hybrids etc) ,or Matt, Drew, Cole, the whole Uber crowd...
I recall one conversation that went along the lines of the guys were getting bored with poi always making circles, and planted the idea amongst each other to spend some time experimenting to see what other patterns/lines were possible- leading the world of poi into stalls, isolations, wraps, atomics, inversions, " oh my!" The art form benefited hugely by this curiousity based process. I am sure there was an aspect of competition- you would have to ask them, but mostly it was an artistic and physical challenge that caught their imagination-- from what I know.
That could inspire her more to grow rather than simply compete. Or maybe she could compete to see how far she can grow, if that works for her?
Thinking of more people than just her, of course!
Smiles,
Andrea
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
BRONZE Member
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
Posted:
There was a little more to linden rathen's post if you want to tak another look, the typo fairies just sabotaged the post.
Personally, i find the most competitive people are those who are naturally out-going, naturally confident, those people who arent going to worry too much about losing. Competitiveness never seems to bother them, they seem to revel in it. Unfortunately, they never seem to realise that it may make some people feel uncomfortable.
Written by: arty fartyWritten by: linden rathen
id disagree with that, in almost everything i do i try to avoid competting, i fall in the groupd of people at my school
Perhaps if you did join in on the competition sometimes, then you wouldnt always fall in the ground?
There was a little more to linden rathen's post if you want to tak another look, the typo fairies just sabotaged the post.
Personally, i find the most competitive people are those who are naturally out-going, naturally confident, those people who arent going to worry too much about losing. Competitiveness never seems to bother them, they seem to revel in it. Unfortunately, they never seem to realise that it may make some people feel uncomfortable.
I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Really? I find that competitive people are the most insecure, because they have no internal self awareness. Their concept of self is entirely or mostly based on how others percieve them.
I was on an activity day when we did an obstacle course 1 at a time. Without the instructor saying anything, everyone started timing each other. After the course, a guy said "So, what do I win?" (We'd established he'd done the course the fastest). The instructor ignored him and gave a Mars Bar to the kid who in his own words "had done it in his own time, and to his own standards" despite everyone telling him to hurry up and get on with it.
Needless to say, there was much shouting and moaning by the kids who had got all competitive about it. I'm sure there's a lesson there somewhere.
Really? I find that competitive people are the most insecure, because they have no internal self awareness. Their concept of self is entirely or mostly based on how others percieve them.
I was on an activity day when we did an obstacle course 1 at a time. Without the instructor saying anything, everyone started timing each other. After the course, a guy said "So, what do I win?" (We'd established he'd done the course the fastest). The instructor ignored him and gave a Mars Bar to the kid who in his own words "had done it in his own time, and to his own standards" despite everyone telling him to hurry up and get on with it.
Needless to say, there was much shouting and moaning by the kids who had got all competitive about it. I'm sure there's a lesson there somewhere.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
Posted:
Yeah, thats true too. Its not really a cut and dry subject, is it?
Competitiveness affects a varied and contradictory group.
I personally think that it can be beneficial, but that the attitude towards it can be detrimental to its benefits.
And kudos to the instructor...
Yeah, thats true too. Its not really a cut and dry subject, is it?
Competitiveness affects a varied and contradictory group.
I personally think that it can be beneficial, but that the attitude towards it can be detrimental to its benefits.
And kudos to the instructor...
I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.
BRONZE Member
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
Posted:
Looks like those typo faries removed my quote from its intention too? Bizzare!!. Mr Linden says he doesnt compete, and as previously discussed, competition brings out the best in people (who dont take it too far). So clearly what i had proposed was an obvious response to this!!
Anyway, i still stand by my first statement. The people ive found to be the most competitive offer the least personality. And for some reason they were always richer than anyone else!! They always had to have the best, and be the best.
The people i know who are comfortable within themselves rarely feel the 'need' to gather material things around them, or feel the need to compete.
Written by: Akashla
There was a little more to linden rathen's post if you want to tak another look, the typo fairies just sabotaged the post.
Looks like those typo faries removed my quote from its intention too? Bizzare!!. Mr Linden says he doesnt compete, and as previously discussed, competition brings out the best in people (who dont take it too far). So clearly what i had proposed was an obvious response to this!!
Anyway, i still stand by my first statement. The people ive found to be the most competitive offer the least personality. And for some reason they were always richer than anyone else!! They always had to have the best, and be the best.
The people i know who are comfortable within themselves rarely feel the 'need' to gather material things around them, or feel the need to compete.
You'll find me on the dance floor
newbie
1 post
1 post
Posted:
yes but to be a true sniper you must not exsist
are u not out going
or do u live up to ur name or are you just a loser
and as for the comment about the rich people bull shiht sniper do you spend all your time in the shadows or some sh!¬
as i all was say any fool can make them selfs uncomforble
yes but to be a true sniper you must not exsist
are u not out going or do u live up to ur name or are you just a loser
and as for the comment about the rich people bull shiht sniper do you spend all your time in the shadows or some sh!¬as i all was say any fool can make them selfs uncomforble
BRONZE Member
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
Posted:
Deary darling, i am not splitting hairs, nor have i any wish to.
To clear up any misunderstanding, and to point out my inferred correction, the exact words i was referring to were 'group' and 'ground'.
Linden typed groupd.
You obviously read it as ground and then referred to it as such.
I was just pointing this out as your consequent post then lacked a reference. I was neither ridiculing you nor arguing with you.
And im not even going to start now.
Deary darling, i am not splitting hairs, nor have i any wish to.
To clear up any misunderstanding, and to point out my inferred correction, the exact words i was referring to were 'group' and 'ground'.
Linden typed groupd.
You obviously read it as ground and then referred to it as such.
I was just pointing this out as your consequent post then lacked a reference. I was neither ridiculing you nor arguing with you.
And im not even going to start now.
I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.
BRONZE Member
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
Posted:
My bad
feeling quite abashed now.
yes i see my mistake, and how mistaking 'group' or 'ground' totally bodged up my post.
Not the best day for me yesterday, but thats not for here.
Thanks Aklashla
My bad
feeling quite abashed now.yes i see my mistake, and how mistaking 'group' or 'ground' totally bodged up my post.
Not the best day for me yesterday, but thats not for here.
Thanks Aklashla
You'll find me on the dance floor
BRONZE Member
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
member
72 posts
Location: On the far left of sane, Ireland
Posted:
Dont worry about it, bad days happen to all of us... just keep on smiling!
Dont worry about it, bad days happen to all of us... just keep on smiling!
I am not a bitch.
I am THE bitch.
And Im Miss Bitch to you.
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
bump, seeing as i want to discuss the tendency for masculine twirlers to create an atmosphere of competitiveness/one-up-manship (without starting a new thread on it and splitting the debate across two threads..)
i find the cause of phenomenon subtle - you don't realise that you're participating in this little game until you're catching yourself doing things with motivations that might not be you.
another reason to find feminine twirlers?
yes ma'am!
b
bump, seeing as i want to discuss the tendency for masculine twirlers to create an atmosphere of competitiveness/one-up-manship (without starting a new thread on it and splitting the debate across two threads..)
i find the cause of phenomenon subtle - you don't realise that you're participating in this little game until you're catching yourself doing things with motivations that might not be you.
another reason to find feminine twirlers?
yes ma'am!
b
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