Forums > Social Discussion > Remembrance Day

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
I thought it was two minutes... well it ended up as four anyway since I got lost in my thoughts.



I am suprised how few people seem to keep this small token of respect and remembrance any more. My boss just tried to have a conversation with me at 11am on the dot and I had to explain to him why I wasn't answering.



A question for HoP...

How do other nationalities view remembrance day?

I have a German colleague who is uneasy with Remembrance Day since, in her words, she is the 'enemy'. To my mind, this is not about which side you were on but about remembering the sacrifices made by so many.



Sassoon says it better:



Aftermath



HAVE you forgotten yet?...

For the world's events have rumbled on since those gagged days,

Like traffic checked while at the crossing of city-ways:

And the haunted gap in your mind has filled with thoughts that flow

Like clouds in the lit heaven of life; and you're a man reprieved to go,

Taking your peaceful share of Time, with joy to spare.

But the past is just the same-and War's a bloody game...

Have you forgotten yet?...

Look down, and swear by the slain of the War that you'll never forget.



Do you remember the dark months you held the sector at Mametz--

The nights you watched and wired and dug and piled sandbags on parapets?

Do you remember the rats; and the stench

Of corpses rotting in front of the front-line trench-

And dawn coming, dirty-white, and chill with a hopeless rain?

Do you ever stop and ask, 'Is it all going to happen again?'



Do you remember that hour of din before the attack--

And the anger, the blind compassion that seized and shook you then

As you peered at the doomed and haggard faces of your men?

Do you remember the stretcher-cases lurching back

With dying eyes and lolling heads-those ashen-grey

Masks of the lads who once were keen and kind and gay?



Have you forgotten yet?...

Look up, and swear by the green of the spring that you'll never forget.



Siegfried Sassoon, 1920

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
Nicely said Molly, and I agree... Remembrance Day is for all those who have died in conflict

Getting to the other side

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
In Flanders Fields



In Flanders fields the poppies blow

Between the crosses, row on row,

That mark our place; and in the sky

The larks, still bravely singing, fly

Scarce heard amid the guns below.



We are the Dead. Short days ago

We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,

Loved and were loved, and now we lie

In Flanders fields.



Take up our quarrel with the foe:

To you from failing hands we throw

The torch; be yours to hold it high.

If ye break faith with us who die

We shall not sleep, though poppies grow

In Flanders fields.



In Flanders Fields by John McCrae




Non-Https Image Link




Never again.
EDITED_BY: Astar (1100173553)

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
Seconded. I think it's a shame that more people don't buy poppies - I'm at uni and I've seen about 4 all day. The bravery of ordinary people who went to war is just staggering. Perhaps people should think about what it would be like to be drafted into the conditions of the D Day landings, or to be socially forced to sign up for a stint in the trenches of france... unbelievable sacrifces made by people just like us.

But then, rememberance is not enough for that level of sacrifice, nor does it offer much comfort for those who lost loved ones.

When you see millions of the mouthless dead
Across your dreams in pale battalions go,
Say not soft things as other men have said,
That you'll remember. For you need not so.
Give them not praise. For, deaf, how should they know
It is not curses heaped on each gashed head
Nor tears. Their blind eyes see not your tears flow.
Nor honour. It is easy to be dead.
Say only this, "They are dead." Then add thereto,
"Yet many a better one has died before."
Then, scanning all the o'ercrowded mass, should you
Perceive one face that you loved heretofore,
It is a spook. None wears the face you knew.
Great death has made all his for evermore.

Charles Hamilton Sorley

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
I fully respect the people who gave their lives to wars they fought in; I don’t believe the whole ‘never again’ thing.

It’s very small minded for people to think war will never happen again! People die in war, it’s sad but true.

To me it’s just small part of the mass hypocrisy we have in the west. Respect to the people who died, and I wish they hadn’t needed to (maybe not the right choice of words, but you know what I mean), but it’s going to happen again, and no amount of wreathes will stop it.

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
Also, why haven't white poppies caught on?

https://www.ppu.org.uk/poppy/white_index.html

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
i think its mostly the fact that it's widely accepted by the general public that red poppies were the first seen. that, and the whole red-blood assosciation.

this is the first rememberance day in 4 years that i havent been wearing a silly hat and waving either a rifle or a sword around the place. i went to the local rsl, was the only person under 25 there, and there were only 3 of us below 50-60, i'd say. we need to get more of the younger generation to, and beleiving in, these sort of events.

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
lyrics to the beautiful ballad "The green fields of France" by Eric Bogle. the verse highlighted in bold rings so true even today.

will we ever learn....??

Well how do you do young Willie McBride
Do you mind if i sit here down by your grave side
And rest for a while 'neath the warm summer sun
I've been walking all day and i'm nearly done
I see by your grave stone you were only 19
When you join the great falling in 1916
I hope you died well and i hope you died clean
Or young Willie McBride was it slow and obscene

Did they beat the drum slowly
Did they play the fine flowly
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Did you leave a wife or a sweet heart behind
In some faithful heart is your memory in shrined
Although you died back in 1916
In that faithful heart are you forever 19
Or are you a stranger without even a name
Enclosed in forever behind the glass frame
In an old photograph torned battered and stained
And faded to yellow in a brown leather frame

Did they beat the drum slowly
Did the play the fine flowly
Did they play the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

The sun, how it shines on the green fields of France
There is a warm summer breeze it makes the red poppies dance
And look how the sun shines from under the clouds
There is no gas,n o barbed wire, there is no gun firing now
But here in this grave yard its still no-man's land
The countless white crosses stand mute in the sand
To man's blind indifference to his fellow man
To a whole generation that were butchered and damned

Did they beat the drum slowly
Did they play the fine flowly
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Ah young Willie McBride i cant help wonder why
Do those that lie here know why did they die
And did they believe when they answered the call
Did they really believe that this war would end wars
Well the sorrow, the suffering, the glory, the pain
The killing and dying were all done in vain
For young Willie McBride it all happened again
And again, and again, and again, and again

Did they beat the drum slowly
Did they play the fine flowly
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
Well, in the states it is Vetrans day today, which I guess is along the same lines as your rememberance day. It is a federal holiday, which means things like the post office and banks are closed. Some schools have off, some don't. Some companies make it a holiday, others don't. Last year, I had the day off for it as it was declared a state holiday too. This year I don't even though I still work for the same state office. Here it's about honoring all those that have fought in any war and are still alive. We have memorial day in May which is to honor all those that lost their lives in a war.

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
Apparently anti-war protesters have been urging people to boycott buying poppies.. *utterly shocked*

I think that's amazingly naive - what about the people who rely on money from the British Legion, ie old, poor ex-army people (or their partners)?

Totally indefensible.

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
it may be naive, but what's wrong with that? If I keep saying "never again" and so does a few million other people. Will it not infact prevent "it" from happening in as horrible a way as it happened in ww1? where instead of saying "never again" people were like "Oh boy, this is glorious and fun, I am so excited lets abandon our family and go shoot some krauts"

I think we have come quit a bit further as a species since ww1. It perhaps may be true we could also regress much quicker then we progressed. But the focus of today is on respecting those who died, and respecting those who may die in the future lest we forget and lend our support for things like the EU and north american global free trade agreement (or whatever it is going to be called)

Posted: 11th Nov 2004

Written by: nearly_all_gone

---

Apparently anti-war protesters have been urging people to boycott buying poppies.. *utterly shocked*

---

That's the bit I thought was naive. The fact that anti-war protesters think that a suitable way of protesting is urging people not to support the people who fought and the families of those who died after having been legally obliged to go to war. I think it's disgusting and I think it does a great disservice to the memories of people like my Grandfather. He didn't join the army to go shoot some Krauts, he joined the army because he believed that the Germans shouldn't be allowed to lay claim to the whole of Europe. And later the full details of what Nazis were doing emerged, and he was proved right.



The whole rememberance thing is all about it not happening again - it's about people remembering and (supposedly) learning from the past.



There's nothing naive about being idealistic. Or at least there shouldn't be.

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

Posted: 11th Nov 2004
yeah you think anti-war protestors who proclaim themselves as being so smart would understand what happened when they trashed the veterns of vietnam. But I guess no one cares about thousands of people suffering mental collapse apon being spat in the face when they get off their flight home.



ps-the ceremony was excellent and poignant. Tis the only ceremony ive ever attended (ive missed 3 in 21 years) where I nearly cried, and loads of people were doing the same or actually crying around me.
EDITED_BY: Astar (1100193616)