Forums > Social Discussion > Circus Tragedy
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
https://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Midwest/05/23/circus.accident/
I feel most bad for her children, and those in the audience, but it is another reminder that none of what we do is infallable.
Kindest Regards all,
Pele
https://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Midwest/05/23/circus.accident/
I feel most bad for her children, and those in the audience, but it is another reminder that none of what we do is infallable.
Kindest Regards all,
Pele
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Hot Schtuff
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
Posted:
OMG that is a tragedy
Why don't people use nets as a safety feature anymore? Is it just for more thrills? If it were my life I would make sure to have a net under me.
Still sucks for the lil kids to witness something like that
OMG that is a tragedy
Why don't people use nets as a safety feature anymore? Is it just for more thrills? If it were my life I would make sure to have a net under me.
Still sucks for the lil kids to witness something like that
RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
And even if you do follow all the safety precautions, there is ALWAYS a risk. We have to remember that none of us is immortal. In just a split second, her life came to an end.
So sad.
And even if you do follow all the safety precautions, there is ALWAYS a risk. We have to remember that none of us is immortal. In just a split second, her life came to an end.
So sad.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
can understand not using a net. espescially for silks, whcih are not considered particularly dangerous(in comparison that is) if done well. you just don't perform if you think you're likely to fall. so accident it must have been and most probably a tech-related thing. from the article it reads as if the rope/ceiling gave way at the top
which is either utterly unavaoidable ad just bad luck, or a human error from a rigger...
but i guess we wait til the investigation is done to find the results n that one, and sit back and watch performers insurance creep up again*sigh*. apologies for the cynicism, today seems to be sketchy all round....
can understand not using a net. espescially for silks, whcih are not considered particularly dangerous(in comparison that is) if done well. you just don't perform if you think you're likely to fall. so accident it must have been and most probably a tech-related thing. from the article it reads as if the rope/ceiling gave way at the top
which is either utterly unavaoidable ad just bad luck, or a human error from a rigger...but i guess we wait til the investigation is done to find the results n that one, and sit back and watch performers insurance creep up again*sigh*. apologies for the cynicism, today seems to be sketchy all round....
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Posted:
*hangs head for a minutes silence to honour the lady*
i hope she had no regrets as she fell....
good luck lady, there will be ones who miss you and my hugs go to them...
*hangs head for a minutes silence to honour the lady*
i hope she had no regrets as she fell....
good luck lady, there will be ones who miss you and my hugs go to them...
Step (el-nombrie)
BRONZE Member
Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
6,140 posts
Location: Over There, United Kingdom
Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
6,140 posts
Location: Over There, United Kingdom
Posted:
I was about to mention that Spanner, then saw you got there ahead of me.
It is a sad event, but accidents happen unfortuantly.
Although i personally think she should have used a net.
I was about to mention that Spanner, then saw you got there ahead of me.
It is a sad event, but accidents happen unfortuantly.
Although i personally think she should have used a net.
Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
No clue Spanner.
Bluecat, more than insurance, think on this. The arena's B&B performs in seat thousands, and are usually sold out. Think about how many people for whom the circus is now completely ruined and what a tragedy that is. There are children who will grow up forever with that in their minds, and quite possibly not expose their children to circus as well. People who will not appreciate those art forms.
As for nets and safety. I think that part of it is social perception, that if a net is used then s/he must be an amatuer. Not at all true but still a perception.
Also alot of art directors view a silk piling into a net as looking unappealing, and part of the silk act is the unravelling and rolling, which would be inhibited by a net.
An obviously safety wires are out of the question.
I also agree that silks are concidered among some of the safest aerial stunts, but as we all know, that means jack in the big picture.
Wonder what will come out of it though, socially and legistically.
P~
No clue Spanner.
Bluecat, more than insurance, think on this. The arena's B&B performs in seat thousands, and are usually sold out. Think about how many people for whom the circus is now completely ruined and what a tragedy that is. There are children who will grow up forever with that in their minds, and quite possibly not expose their children to circus as well. People who will not appreciate those art forms.
As for nets and safety. I think that part of it is social perception, that if a net is used then s/he must be an amatuer. Not at all true but still a perception.
Also alot of art directors view a silk piling into a net as looking unappealing, and part of the silk act is the unravelling and rolling, which would be inhibited by a net.
An obviously safety wires are out of the question.
I also agree that silks are concidered among some of the safest aerial stunts, but as we all know, that means jack in the big picture.
Wonder what will come out of it though, socially and legistically.
P~
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
GOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
Posted:
Let's relight this forum 
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I wonder if it would be possible to have a kind of airbag safety device on the ground beneath.
So it lays flat and unobtrusively during the performance, but, if something goes wrong, it inflates in the same way that a car airbag would.
Triggering devices could be one or more of the following: -
1. radio activated triggered by an accelerometer attached to the performer
2. some form of burglar detector style light beam array above the airbag
3. manual- triggered by a safety person who can spot when somethings going wrong
Quote:
As for nets and safety. I think that part of it is social perception, that if a net is used then s/he must be an amatuer. Not at all true but still a perception.
Also alot of art directors view a silk piling into a net as looking unappealing, and part of the silk act is the unravelling and rolling, which would be inhibited by a net.
An obviously safety wires are out of the question.
I wonder if it would be possible to have a kind of airbag safety device on the ground beneath.
So it lays flat and unobtrusively during the performance, but, if something goes wrong, it inflates in the same way that a car airbag would.
Triggering devices could be one or more of the following: -
1. radio activated triggered by an accelerometer attached to the performer
2. some form of burglar detector style light beam array above the airbag
3. manual- triggered by a safety person who can spot when somethings going wrong
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
thats a good idea dave... but would it be quick enough to inflate if someone is falling?
That is one of the saddest stories I have read in a long time. It may not be any consolation to her family, but at least she passed doing something she loved...I will send her angels...
thats a good idea dave... but would it be quick enough to inflate if someone is falling?
That is one of the saddest stories I have read in a long time. It may not be any consolation to her family, but at least she passed doing something she loved...I will send her angels...
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
SILVER Member
.:*distracted by shiny things*:.
3,777 posts
Location: brizvegas, Australia
.:*distracted by shiny things*:.
3,777 posts
Location: brizvegas, Australia
Posted:
big and 
to her family, friends, hubby and especially to her two kids!!
big
and to her family, friends, hubby and especially to her two kids!! do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good to eat!
if at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished!
smile! :grin: it confuses people!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Posted:
i think it would b hard to get a device such as an air bag to infate in timme, due to its size.
a car air bag works well due to it is retivly small and would nit require as much pressuer to inflate as would be required by an air bag that would been to catch a person, also
distnace traveled is a factor in a car you have a rather small distance to travel, and the bag defaltes a lil to be more absorbant for shock and enegry loss...now a person accelerates as they fall, would it be able to inflat enad deflate enough to catch teh perfoemer and not let them collapse it totaly by pushing all the air out, but also be able not to catapult them off like a trapoline?
i think its a good idea, but would need lots of testing to get right, also i think the launch procedure would be vary hard to work on?!
i think it would b hard to get a device such as an air bag to infate in timme, due to its size.
a car air bag works well due to it is retivly small and would nit require as much pressuer to inflate as would be required by an air bag that would been to catch a person, also
distnace traveled is a factor in a car you have a rather small distance to travel, and the bag defaltes a lil to be more absorbant for shock and enegry loss...now a person accelerates as they fall, would it be able to inflat enad deflate enough to catch teh perfoemer and not let them collapse it totaly by pushing all the air out, but also be able not to catapult them off like a trapoline?
i think its a good idea, but would need lots of testing to get right, also i think the launch procedure would be vary hard to work on?!
Step (el-nombrie)
Flaming Lesbian
181 posts
Location: Portland, Oregon
181 posts
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted:
my heart goes to all who survived her.
it's funny to think that before i started juggling i would have not given her a second thought, and now, it seems as if a comerade has fallen.
my heart goes to all who survived her.
it's funny to think that before i started juggling i would have not given her a second thought, and now, it seems as if a comerade has fallen.
Lights dancing off my skin as chains wrap round it.
Pain is in a little box and I'm so glad I found it.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm no technician/mechanic so I'm just throwing thoughts out here.
have the mat made up of several car air sized bags, each with their own air cylinder, so the whole thing inflates at the same speed as a car air bag does.
maybe build it so that the deflation is caused by the impact of the caught person- some kind of valve?
think back to the days before car air bags existed- if someone proposed fitting inflatable bags in car dashboards that could detect forces indicative of a crash, then inflate and deflate in microseconds before the passengers impact the windscreen; would you have considered it remotely possible?
It must have been one hell of a feat to get prototypes up and running, but they did it.
--------------
Anyone out there with technical knowledge on air bags etc, who can offer comments on this?
I'm no technician/mechanic so I'm just throwing thoughts out here.
Quote:
i think it would b hard to get a device such as an air bag to infate in timme, due to its size.
have the mat made up of several car air sized bags, each with their own air cylinder, so the whole thing inflates at the same speed as a car air bag does.
Quote:
...now a person accelerates as they fall, would it be able to inflat enad deflate enough to catch teh perfoemer and not let them collapse it totaly by pushing all the air out, but also be able not to catapult them off like a trapoline?
maybe build it so that the deflation is caused by the impact of the caught person- some kind of valve?
Quote:
i think its a good idea, but would need lots of testing to get right, also i think the launch procedure would be vary hard to work on?!
think back to the days before car air bags existed- if someone proposed fitting inflatable bags in car dashboards that could detect forces indicative of a crash, then inflate and deflate in microseconds before the passengers impact the windscreen; would you have considered it remotely possible?
It must have been one hell of a feat to get prototypes up and running, but they did it.
--------------
Anyone out there with technical knowledge on air bags etc, who can offer comments on this?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Actually something like that airbag already exsists to stop bullets. They are inflatable Kevlar airbags which are put in place around ploitical delegates. A detector device is triggered based on acceleration and they inflate. PWB was telling me about it last night. He is going to see if he can find it again.
Problem, well beyond legistics, would be technical cost. It would be an enormous undertaking requiring special ground rigging/staging that would be extremely costly.
And from the accounts it seems that her rigging failed somehow.
Which brings me to this statement..check all your own stuff, and don't rely on anyone else to do it for you.
And here is where reprocussions begin to fall in, cut from a news snipett:
">>>>After the investigation, police will likely present the case to the St. Paul City Attorney's office, where prosecutors could consider using the state's "acrobatic exhibitions" law. Authorities reached Sunday could not remember any time the law had been used.
That law, in essence, says that every "proprietor, occupant or lessee" who permits someone to perform on any trapeze, rope, pole, or other acrobatic contrivance, "without network, or other sufficient means of protection from falling or other accident" is in violation of the law. Such a violation is a gross misdemeanor that carries a $250 fine and up to a year in jail.
Because this was a workplace fatality, police said they notified the Minnesota Department of Labor and Industry's Occupational Safety and Health Division. The agency's spokesman said Sunday that Minnesota OSHA would not be reviewing the case.<<<< "
Pele
Actually something like that airbag already exsists to stop bullets. They are inflatable Kevlar airbags which are put in place around ploitical delegates. A detector device is triggered based on acceleration and they inflate. PWB was telling me about it last night. He is going to see if he can find it again.
Problem, well beyond legistics, would be technical cost. It would be an enormous undertaking requiring special ground rigging/staging that would be extremely costly.
And from the accounts it seems that her rigging failed somehow.
Which brings me to this statement..check all your own stuff, and don't rely on anyone else to do it for you.
And here is where reprocussions begin to fall in, cut from a news snipett:
">>>>After the investigation, police will likely present the case to the St. Paul City Attorney's office, where prosecutors could consider using the state's "acrobatic exhibitions" law. Authorities reached Sunday could not remember any time the law had been used.
That law, in essence, says that every "proprietor, occupant or lessee" who permits someone to perform on any trapeze, rope, pole, or other acrobatic contrivance, "without network, or other sufficient means of protection from falling or other accident" is in violation of the law. Such a violation is a gross misdemeanor that carries a $250 fine and up to a year in jail.
Because this was a workplace fatality, police said they notified the Minnesota Department of Labor and Industry's Occupational Safety and Health Division. The agency's spokesman said Sunday that Minnesota OSHA would not be reviewing the case.<<<< "
Pele
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
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