Forums > Social Chat > my year of meat
Login/Join to Participategeek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
anyone read this?
My Year Of Meat by ruth l. ozeki
didn't really tell me anything new but was graphic enough to put me off beef (well US-produced beef) for ever and ever.
so am now reverting to 'nearlyvegetarian'
not quite but very rarely and then only meat i know the origins of and am vaguely ok about.
i.e. cetified organic.
still down to about once every two weeks.
anyway.
back to (own) topic
read the book.
and be slightly scared.
R
anyone read this?
My Year Of Meat by ruth l. ozeki
didn't really tell me anything new but was graphic enough to put me off beef (well US-produced beef) for ever and ever.
so am now reverting to 'nearlyvegetarian'
not quite but very rarely and then only meat i know the origins of and am vaguely ok about.
i.e. cetified organic.
still down to about once every two weeks.
anyway.
back to (own) topic
read the book.
and be slightly scared.
RHolistic Spinner (I hope)
Sponge
883 posts
Location: Stevenage
883 posts
Location: Stevenage
Posted:
Happy Birthday
How comes your online? thought you had plans. I eat meat, there's so much other crap I eat and drink what's one more burger? Plus I work in Saino's: I know what happens to their meat. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence!!!!
Happy Birthday
How comes your online? thought you had plans. I eat meat, there's so much other crap I eat and drink what's one more burger? Plus I work in Saino's: I know what happens to their meat. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence!!!!
Monkeys monkeys and bananas
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
I'm a passive vegetarian, in so much as I'm not vegetarian, but, end up eating vegetarian alot because my girlfriends one. Whether I'm cooking for her or she's cooking for me I'm eating far less meat than I used to.
I don't think I'm about to become vegetarian, but I'm thinking lately, I wouldn't miss meat all that much. Tis way cheaper and less hassle too...
I might keep an eye open for the book anywhooo.
I'm a passive vegetarian, in so much as I'm not vegetarian, but, end up eating vegetarian alot because my girlfriends one. Whether I'm cooking for her or she's cooking for me I'm eating far less meat than I used to.
I don't think I'm about to become vegetarian, but I'm thinking lately, I wouldn't miss meat all that much. Tis way cheaper and less hassle too...
I might keep an eye open for the book anywhooo.
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
GOLD Member
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
I became a vegetarian at about 15 years of age. Then 13 years later, for reasons still unclear to me, I suddenly craved meat and decided to eat some again (I think I'd been ill with the flu and hadn't eaten for about a week. When I regained my sense of smell and tastebuds, all I wanted was a big juicy steak, wierd
)
Anyhow, after about a week of eating meat again, I started having severe digestive problems, everything from diarrhoea to constipation, my stomach was in knots for more than a fortnight.
That sorted out my cravings I'll tell ya.....
I became a vegetarian at about 15 years of age. Then 13 years later, for reasons still unclear to me, I suddenly craved meat and decided to eat some again (I think I'd been ill with the flu and hadn't eaten for about a week. When I regained my sense of smell and tastebuds, all I wanted was a big juicy steak, wierd
)Anyhow, after about a week of eating meat again, I started having severe digestive problems, everything from diarrhoea to constipation, my stomach was in knots for more than a fortnight.
That sorted out my cravings I'll tell ya.....
My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely 
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I'm a vegetarian, although I have been stuck into eating meat on occasion and it doesn't bother my stomach.
But whenever I read one of these articles or books on how meat is done in the modern world, it makes me glad I don't eat it.
I'm a vegetarian, although I have been stuck into eating meat on occasion and it doesn't bother my stomach.
But whenever I read one of these articles or books on how meat is done in the modern world, it makes me glad I don't eat it.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Hot Schtuff
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
Posted:
What exactly happens to the meat?
I've been in a slaughter house and watched the animal butchered and seen how they inspect it and make sure it is not sick or diseased or has cancer. If they do then the carcasses are discarded.
Are you talking about in a packing plant or something?
I'm alil confused on what yall are talking about.
What exactly happens to the meat?
I've been in a slaughter house and watched the animal butchered and seen how they inspect it and make sure it is not sick or diseased or has cancer. If they do then the carcasses are discarded.
Are you talking about in a packing plant or something?
I'm alil confused on what yall are talking about.
RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Mistress,
For me, my complaint with meat is the environmental costs. Feed lots are huge drains on the environment. They're disgusting and the pollution they produce is really horrid. Meat is such an inefficient form of food for feeding a crowded planet.
My other complaint is the antibiotics. The hormones I really don't care much about because it's unlikely that your exposure from eating meat is all that high, but the antibiotics breed resistant bacteria. Already, thanks to overuse of fluoroquinolone antibiotics in the poultry industry, many Salmonella species are resistant to such drugs as ciprofloxacin, levofloxacin, etc.
Mistress,
For me, my complaint with meat is the environmental costs. Feed lots are huge drains on the environment. They're disgusting and the pollution they produce is really horrid. Meat is such an inefficient form of food for feeding a crowded planet.
My other complaint is the antibiotics. The hormones I really don't care much about because it's unlikely that your exposure from eating meat is all that high, but the antibiotics breed resistant bacteria. Already, thanks to overuse of fluoroquinolone antibiotics in the poultry industry, many Salmonella species are resistant to such drugs as ciprofloxacin, levofloxacin, etc.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Hot Schtuff
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
Posted:
Oh ok. Thank you Lightning
I can see what you are talking about with the overuse of drugs on animals. I heard that is happening with lots of bacteria and viruses in humans/plants/animals. I think we use to many drugs for everything in life.
Oh ok. Thank you Lightning
I can see what you are talking about with the overuse of drugs on animals. I heard that is happening with lots of bacteria and viruses in humans/plants/animals. I think we use to many drugs for everything in life.
RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.
SILVER Member
veteran
1,260 posts
Location: Now in the land of Oz, Australia
veteran
1,260 posts
Location: Now in the land of Oz, Australia
Posted:
well ill tell ya. i love meat. well most meats. It just tasts so good!! thing is that im a HUGE animal person. so i eat meat and just plead ignornce to where it cames from ... i like to think it grows on trees... i think anything that has paws shouldnt really be eaten. thats the whole cat and dog thing. did you no that over in china they growing cats and dogs like westerners do chickens and selling them under a differant name so that people think its something else? thats just not right.
i just cant go past the taste of meat tho. on the second sunday of every april myself and a whole lot of friends get together and have what we call
"horse day of meat"
basicly we have a big party which involes drinking, playing lots of weard and wacky games, and eating meat from 11am to 11pm its grate! but i still like to think that it grows on trees!
well ill tell ya. i love meat. well most meats. It just tasts so good!! thing is that im a HUGE animal person. so i eat meat and just plead ignornce to where it cames from ... i like to think it grows on trees... i think anything that has paws shouldnt really be eaten. thats the whole cat and dog thing. did you no that over in china they growing cats and dogs like westerners do chickens and selling them under a differant name so that people think its something else? thats just not right.
i just cant go past the taste of meat tho. on the second sunday of every april myself and a whole lot of friends get together and have what we call
"horse day of meat"
basicly we have a big party which involes drinking, playing lots of weard and wacky games, and eating meat from 11am to 11pm
its grate! but i still like to think that it grows on trees! What if we think the jokes on them,
But really - the jokes on us....
and also... i wuv Rougie *snuz*
member
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
Posted:
speaking as an animal lover that is especially fond of dogs and cats, it is typical western arrogance to say how awful those asian 'pet' eating countries are. Dogs and cats are no where near being endangered, and the ones that are eaten probably live better lives than most of the animals that are sold in western supermarkets. As far as I'm concerned it is the life that matters, not the death. If an animal lives a free and natural life then I don't mind killing it and eating it, but the idea of confining it in a factory type farm and giving it a life of suffering disgusts me
.
Besides they say that pigs are smarter, but since I don't know who 'they' are I just take their word for it. Not that intelligence should be a factor in deciding if an animal should be eaten. If it was I think I'd be a cannibal.
Quote:
i think anything that has paws shouldnt really be eaten. thats the whole cat and dog thing. did you no that over in china they growing cats and dogs like westerners do chickens and selling them under a differant name so that people think its something else? thats just not right.
speaking as an animal lover that is especially fond of dogs and cats, it is typical western arrogance to say how awful those asian 'pet' eating countries are. Dogs and cats are no where near being endangered, and the ones that are eaten probably live better lives than most of the animals that are sold in western supermarkets. As far as I'm concerned it is the life that matters, not the death. If an animal lives a free and natural life then I don't mind killing it and eating it, but the idea of confining it in a factory type farm and giving it a life of suffering disgusts me
. Besides they say that pigs are smarter, but since I don't know who 'they' are I just take their word for it. Not that intelligence should be a factor in deciding if an animal should be eaten. If it was I think I'd be a cannibal.
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
yup.
something ridiculous like 4 pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef.
ouch
fire bunny you are fortunate to live in NZ where i think most animals are kept in sanitary and reasonable habitats.
i also used to think the tastiness of meat would get me through any principles i might have... but happily no.
i feel you are being extremely hypocritical to say one type of meat is 'ok' and another is not because your culture sees them as pets.
i would have to agree with wan's post.
apparently we taste like chicken
R
yup.
something ridiculous like 4 pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef.
ouch
fire bunny you are fortunate to live in NZ where i think most animals are kept in sanitary and reasonable habitats.
i also used to think the tastiness of meat would get me through any principles i might have... but happily no.
i feel you are being extremely hypocritical to say one type of meat is 'ok' and another is not because your culture sees them as pets.
i would have to agree with wan's post.
apparently we taste like chicken
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
Why don't you just find out where your meat is comeing from and not buy the meat from questionable sources? We almost only buy meat from smallish local farmers that still do things the old way (suprisingly they do this because they find it cheaper, factory farms end up spending huge amounts on anti-biotics and a lot of their animals die anyways (which makes it no good for consumption)
Ive always disliked big farms just because they monopolize the industry and take the hands out of ordinary people, sure they hire a bunch of people but it's usually near minimum wage with no benefits.
Also another reason not to eat meat is all the nitrates/msg they put on meat to preserve it (unfortunatly all the meat we get still has this put on it by the meat cutters are the grocery store)
Why don't you just find out where your meat is comeing from and not buy the meat from questionable sources? We almost only buy meat from smallish local farmers that still do things the old way (suprisingly they do this because they find it cheaper, factory farms end up spending huge amounts on anti-biotics and a lot of their animals die anyways (which makes it no good for consumption)
Ive always disliked big farms just because they monopolize the industry and take the hands out of ordinary people, sure they hire a bunch of people but it's usually near minimum wage with no benefits.
Also another reason not to eat meat is all the nitrates/msg they put on meat to preserve it (unfortunatly all the meat we get still has this put on it by the meat cutters are the grocery store)
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
If I recall from my school days it's more like 10 to 1 as animals are so inefficent.
The Meatrix
If I recall from my school days it's more like 10 to 1 as animals are so inefficent.
The Meatrix
SILVER Member
old hand
899 posts
Location: New York City, USA
old hand
899 posts
Location: New York City, USA
Posted:
I like eating meat. I'm sure if I had to hunt my own food I'd eat much less of it, but I'd have a tough time trapping and killing the elusive chocolate beast as well!
While it is true that the big industrial farms pump hormones and chemicals into the animals, it could be said that the pesticides used on vegetable crops aren't any better for humans. We are exposed to so many chemicals that are potentially hazardous that meat is really the least of my worries.
I love leather as well, so it would be hypocritical of me to enjoy the skin of a beast without consuming the meat of the creature too.
Raph
I like eating meat. I'm sure if I had to hunt my own food I'd eat much less of it, but I'd have a tough time trapping and killing the elusive chocolate beast as well!
While it is true that the big industrial farms pump hormones and chemicals into the animals, it could be said that the pesticides used on vegetable crops aren't any better for humans. We are exposed to so many chemicals that are potentially hazardous that meat is really the least of my worries.
I love leather as well, so it would be hypocritical of me to enjoy the skin of a beast without consuming the meat of the creature too.
Raph
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
I have a friend who has been a vegan for a year as of yesterday. Dunno what the hell shes thinkin. I crave meat constantly. Id say in a given day meat makes up about 75% of my diet. I eat all kinds of meat. Steaks, hotdogs, chicken wings, slim jims, chicken nuggets, veal parmesan, crab cakes... I dont care how its made, what part of the animal it came from, or how the animal was killed. I just know its the tastiest stuff in the world and I couldnt live without it.
Honestly, I would eat human meat if given the chance and it was cooked well. Of course Im not talking about becoming a cannibal, just wouldnt mind tasting it.
I have a friend who has been a vegan for a year as of yesterday. Dunno what the hell shes thinkin. I crave meat constantly. Id say in a given day meat makes up about 75% of my diet. I eat all kinds of meat. Steaks, hotdogs, chicken wings, slim jims, chicken nuggets, veal parmesan, crab cakes... I dont care how its made, what part of the animal it came from, or how the animal was killed. I just know its the tastiest stuff in the world and I couldnt live without it.
Honestly, I would eat human meat if given the chance and it was cooked well. Of course Im not talking about becoming a cannibal, just wouldnt mind tasting it.
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
If anyone wants a reasonably impartial (if there's such a thing), well researched, cheap, american specific book about the meat industry by a non vegetarian journalist, check out:
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060938455
it's mainly about fast food, flavourings etc, but does have quite a few chapters on the meat industry, it's history etc. It's had a lot of good reviews and been a bestseller in many countries. There's some extracts here.
no wonder kitty is scared 
If anyone wants a reasonably impartial (if there's such a thing), well researched, cheap, american specific book about the meat industry by a non vegetarian journalist, check out:
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060938455
it's mainly about fast food, flavourings etc, but does have quite a few chapters on the meat industry, it's history etc. It's had a lot of good reviews and been a bestseller in many countries. There's some extracts here.
Quote:
Honestly, I would eat human meat if given the chance and it was cooked well. Of course Im not talking about becoming a cannibal, just wouldnt mind tasting it.
no wonder kitty is scared
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I can see what you mean. However I think it would be a shame if people who otherwise would become vegetarian, didn't do so because they still wanted to wear leather.
There are some differences.
Firstly, one of scale- leather goods tend to last a lot longer than most other forms of clothing, whereas meat is a high volume/high turnover process involving many more animal deaths; so, having one leather jacket that will last most of your life, involves a lot less animal deaths than eating meat products on a regular basis.
Secondly, leather can be a obtained from animals killed for their meat i.e. it would otherwise have gone to waste.
I think if we lived in a world where meat production was a lot lower,or non existent, then leather would be a serious moral issue; in the high meat production world we do live in, I would say it's not so much of an issue; certainly not to the extent that a leather wearer should feel hypocritical if they are vegetarian.
Quote:
I love leather as well, so it would be hypocritical of me to enjoy the skin of a beast without consuming the meat of the creature too.
Raph
I can see what you mean. However I think it would be a shame if people who otherwise would become vegetarian, didn't do so because they still wanted to wear leather.
There are some differences.
Firstly, one of scale- leather goods tend to last a lot longer than most other forms of clothing, whereas meat is a high volume/high turnover process involving many more animal deaths; so, having one leather jacket that will last most of your life, involves a lot less animal deaths than eating meat products on a regular basis.
Secondly, leather can be a obtained from animals killed for their meat i.e. it would otherwise have gone to waste.
I think if we lived in a world where meat production was a lot lower,or non existent, then leather would be a serious moral issue; in the high meat production world we do live in, I would say it's not so much of an issue; certainly not to the extent that a leather wearer should feel hypocritical if they are vegetarian.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
i guess it depends whether you view leather production as being an unexpected biproduct, or a very integral part of the beef industry and big business
i do agree with your first comment thou.
Quote:
otherwise have gone to waste.
i guess it depends whether you view leather production as being an unexpected biproduct, or a very integral part of the beef industry and big business
i do agree with your first comment thou.
SILVER Member
old hand
899 posts
Location: New York City, USA
old hand
899 posts
Location: New York City, USA
Posted:
Dave, I can't argue with a thing you just said.
Shame on you!
Raph
Dave, I can't argue with a thing you just said.
Shame on you!
Raph
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
And about leather, I will be honest. I have yet to see a synthetic that is as durable or just as good at leather. Especially for uses like wallets. We also use leather restraints when we need to restrain combative patients or patients who are inmates at a local prison. It's virtually indestructable and very difficult to cut.
And about leather, I will be honest. I have yet to see a synthetic that is as durable or just as good at leather. Especially for uses like wallets. We also use leather restraints when we need to restrain combative patients or patients who are inmates at a local prison. It's virtually indestructable and very difficult to cut.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
have you ever tried these mike?
P.S. Link not suitable for under 18
P.P.S. I only know about this site cause it was on TV (Graham Norton)
have you ever tried these mike?
P.S. Link not suitable for under 18
P.P.S. I only know about this site cause it was on TV (Graham Norton)
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I'm working in the pediatric ER right now, so I'll check later.
I'm working in the pediatric ER right now, so I'll check later.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
it's definately a bedtime link
it's definately a bedtime link
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
well if you follow native american tradition, i don't think it fits in either. the native americans belived that every part of the animal should be used or else it would be disrespecting nature.
i personally eat meat because i (a) like it, but also (b) i get anemic really easily and no amount of vitamins or vegetables seems to keep me at a good level as well as meat does. plus i don't like a whole lot of veggies
a lil side note, i fully respect anyone's decision to eat or not eat meat. and i don't question anyone's decision to not eat meat, except when they are ignorantly lecturing me about it. a girl i went to school with had taken a course on the ethics of food, and after watching one movie on the negative aspects of the meat industry, she decided to become a vegetarian, claiming that animals have feelings too and we shouldn't kill them for food. now i won't disagree with this, and i normally would not care why someone made the choice they did; however, she began lecturing me out of the blue because i was eating something in front of her, and most of her arguments were actually not even factual or well thought out. after getting an earful for about 10 minutes, i had just about had enough, so i turned to her and told her that plants have feelings too, and therefore she couldn't necessarily base her entire reason on not wanting to eat meat on that fact alone. she argued that plants did not have feelings, and i responded that while they do not have the same anatomy structure as humans and animals, they do have a central nervous system, and in fact, numerous studies have shown that talking to a plant and saying positive vs. negative statements to it will allow them to bloom and grow more healthily (is that a word?). and if you talk to a plant negatively, studies have shown that it will not grow well or may actually die. so at that point, this girl got angry because i blew a hole in her entire argument, so she griped and said something about the ethics of eating meat vs. vegetables and did i think it was ok to still eat both. to which i responded that "no, i just don't discriminate." she had nothing to say to that. as evil as it was, it was somewhat satisfying to completely pull apart her entire theory.
sorry, i just believe if you're gonna make a choice, it should be an educated choice.
Quote:
i guess it depends whether you view leather production as being an unexpected biproduct, or a very integral part of the beef industry and big business
well if you follow native american tradition, i don't think it fits in either. the native americans belived that every part of the animal should be used or else it would be disrespecting nature.
i personally eat meat because i (a) like it, but also (b) i get anemic really easily and no amount of vitamins or vegetables seems to keep me at a good level as well as meat does. plus i don't like a whole lot of veggies
a lil side note, i fully respect anyone's decision to eat or not eat meat. and i don't question anyone's decision to not eat meat, except when they are ignorantly lecturing me about it. a girl i went to school with had taken a course on the ethics of food, and after watching one movie on the negative aspects of the meat industry, she decided to become a vegetarian, claiming that animals have feelings too and we shouldn't kill them for food. now i won't disagree with this, and i normally would not care why someone made the choice they did; however, she began lecturing me out of the blue because i was eating something in front of her, and most of her arguments were actually not even factual or well thought out. after getting an earful for about 10 minutes, i had just about had enough, so i turned to her and told her that plants have feelings too, and therefore she couldn't necessarily base her entire reason on not wanting to eat meat on that fact alone. she argued that plants did not have feelings, and i responded that while they do not have the same anatomy structure as humans and animals, they do have a central nervous system, and in fact, numerous studies have shown that talking to a plant and saying positive vs. negative statements to it will allow them to bloom and grow more healthily (is that a word?). and if you talk to a plant negatively, studies have shown that it will not grow well or may actually die. so at that point, this girl got angry because i blew a hole in her entire argument, so she griped and said something about the ethics of eating meat vs. vegetables and did i think it was ok to still eat both. to which i responded that "no, i just don't discriminate." she had nothing to say to that. as evil as it was, it was somewhat satisfying to completely pull apart her entire theory.
sorry, i just believe if you're gonna make a choice, it should be an educated choice.
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
As a vegetarian, what really gets under my skin is when vegetarians lecture other people on why they should be a vegetarian, make noises or faces of disgust when meal partners choose meat, or in any other way try to lecture or act superior to those who eat meat.
This is a free country and I would never try to force my own personal choice on another person. In fact, as a physician, I would never recommend vegetarianism to a patient unless there was a compelling medical reason (and I can't think of one except for some rare metabolic defects). Vegetarianism requires a high level of sophistication and education about proper nutrition so that it is possible to get adequate intake of all the vitamins, minerals, and nutrients required in a diet. Not everyone is willing to make the commitment to self-education and the effort required to maintain a healthy vegetarian diet in a Western, meat-centered society.
Furthermore, we all supposedly live in free countries and I have no use for people who would force their lifestyle decisions on others.
Quote:
a lil side note, i fully respect anyone's decision to eat or not eat meat. and i don't question anyone's decision to not eat meat, except when they are ignorantly lecturing me about it. a girl i went to school with had taken a course on the ethics of food, and after watching one movie on the negative aspects of the meat industry, she decided to become a vegetarian, claiming that animals have feelings too and we shouldn't kill them for food.
As a vegetarian, what really gets under my skin is when vegetarians lecture other people on why they should be a vegetarian, make noises or faces of disgust when meal partners choose meat, or in any other way try to lecture or act superior to those who eat meat.
This is a free country and I would never try to force my own personal choice on another person. In fact, as a physician, I would never recommend vegetarianism to a patient unless there was a compelling medical reason (and I can't think of one except for some rare metabolic defects). Vegetarianism requires a high level of sophistication and education about proper nutrition so that it is possible to get adequate intake of all the vitamins, minerals, and nutrients required in a diet. Not everyone is willing to make the commitment to self-education and the effort required to maintain a healthy vegetarian diet in a Western, meat-centered society.
Furthermore, we all supposedly live in free countries and I have no use for people who would force their lifestyle decisions on others.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
except when they are ignorantly lecturing me about it
people with strong beleifs are a lot like religious people. The vast majority don't, they just get on with life and are happy with their choices. If someone directly asks them, or they are listening to someone else lecturing who is talking complete nonsense, then they'll offer their input/set them straight, just like they would anything. Of course there are people who feel a devine need to preach to people who really just don't want to hear, but they are just a noisey minority. Sometimes they manage to make themselves noiser than the rest put together and give the impression that *all* people in that group are that way, but this is just an unfortunate consequence of life. I don't particularly like my monthly visit from our local clean shaven suited american guys who come to spread a message of love from jesus (well actually it's sometimes kinda funny when we make them wait, wake someone up in the house and tell them to come down cause their parents are here) and one of my core beleifs is not to subject others to anything i wouldn't want to be!
sorry, i just believe if you're gonna make a choice, it should be an educated choice
i agree.
except when they are ignorantly lecturing me about it
people with strong beleifs are a lot like religious people. The vast majority don't, they just get on with life and are happy with their choices. If someone directly asks them, or they are listening to someone else lecturing who is talking complete nonsense, then they'll offer their input/set them straight, just like they would anything. Of course there are people who feel a devine need to preach to people who really just don't want to hear, but they are just a noisey minority. Sometimes they manage to make themselves noiser than the rest put together and give the impression that *all* people in that group are that way, but this is just an unfortunate consequence of life. I don't particularly like my monthly visit from our local clean shaven suited american guys who come to spread a message of love from jesus (well actually it's sometimes kinda funny when we make them wait, wake someone up in the house and tell them to come down cause their parents are here
) and one of my core beleifs is not to subject others to anything i wouldn't want to be!sorry, i just believe if you're gonna make a choice, it should be an educated choice
i agree.
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
Just out of curiosity how many successful vegan pro-athletes are there? Especially in sports that are more about strength. It seems from what ive read in bio-class that nothing quite compares to meat protein for building muscle/maintaining muscle
Just out of curiosity how many successful vegan pro-athletes are there? Especially in sports that are more about strength. It seems from what ive read in bio-class that nothing quite compares to meat protein for building muscle/maintaining muscle
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
depends how much you trust the internet i guess
https://veggie.org/veggie/famous.veg.athletes.shtml
i'm not sure i'd bet my life on facts from "A Teen's Guide to Going Vegetarian", but there ya go. I do know that many martial arts were developed by buddhist monks, who are mostly vegan. Maybe thats why the developed techniques which don't need strength
oh and don't pay too much attention to school, when you go to uni they admit that what you learnt in science was sort of kinda right, but mostly wrong.
depends how much you trust the internet i guess
https://veggie.org/veggie/famous.veg.athletes.shtml
i'm not sure i'd bet my life on facts from "A Teen's Guide to Going Vegetarian", but there ya go. I do know that many martial arts were developed by buddhist monks, who are mostly vegan. Maybe thats why the developed techniques which don't need strength
oh and don't pay too much attention to school, when you go to uni they admit that what you learnt in science was sort of kinda right, but mostly wrong.
member
34 posts
Location: Wageningen, NL
34 posts
Location: Wageningen, NL
Posted:
We call the irritating lecturing vegetarians 'Vegetarius evangelicus'. Almost extinct species. More of the Meatarii evangelici here nowadays.
Complex diet?
The Mad Doctor worried about vegetarians having to know a lot about food. Sorry but I disagree. Healthwise some basic knowledge about food is good but that would not hurt a meat eater would it? Vegans (those who do not even use animal products such as milk(-products), eggs, honey) have to take care about some stuff like vitamin B12, but vegetarians do not need to worry.
As long as you do not try to eat normal-but-without-the-meat of course. Anyhow i think that's why some folks are scared about not eating meat, they probable think that they would have to eat a dish of bland potatoes with overcooked vegetables. Invite yourself to some experienced full- or part-time vegetarians, don't think of missing the meat and enjoy.
BTW I had the 'joy' to live in a house with 2 vegan students and we always cook together so for some weeks we tried to cook vegan for everybody out of solidarity but eventually we couldn't stand it anymore. Well i was biased because the vegan bloke tried to steal my girlfriend, ass-hole (I won, sort of) . But since then I sometimes accidently cook vegan. (and then i quickly add cheese (not) )
Some folks here say they would really miss meat. Well actually I can't say I ever miss it. I sometimes take a bite and I can understand you can miss the texture but the taste is so boring. From the meat I sometimes miss, e.g. sausages. most of the taste comes from adding herbs 'n spices. And my cooking improved a lot since I turned vegetarian.
Strong!!
About the feeling strong from meat, that's so prehistoric. Go eat the brains of your teachers and see how smart you get. Duh. Well ok one exception, some of these people who can hardly put any fat on their bodies (I envy them but it seems they envy me too) seem to gain weight quicker when eating meat (not necessarily form 11 to 11).
5000x worse
Comparing pesticides on veggies to hormones&antibiotics on meat? Weird comparison because of the difference in scale.
Anyhow pig's meat is calculated to be 50 times (that's 5000%!) less environmental friendly as organic vegetarian alternatives based on soy or maize. Cow's meat is worse.
Lïghtnïng also mentioned hormones. Well just do not eat too much _soy_ to replace meat because there are these pseudo whatever hormones in it (oestrogenes?). Or was that another myth by the disinformation maffia, anyone?
The constant addition of antibiotics to fodder has finally been abolished in the European Union a short time ago.
Veganerotica: hahaha, OMG!
. I just use leather (modestly) as long as they are growing the animals mostly for the meat. Lightning: " I will be honest. I have yet to see a synthetic that is as durable or just as good at leather. " Well varies per application, but i can ruin the leather as good as the synthetic. And my wallet must be 10 years old, washed several times, I couldn't wash a leather wallet could I? Anyway I must look like a vegetarius evangelicus now. Full stop then. 
We call the irritating lecturing vegetarians 'Vegetarius evangelicus'. Almost extinct species. More of the Meatarii evangelici here nowadays.
Complex diet?
The Mad Doctor worried about vegetarians having to know a lot about food. Sorry but I disagree. Healthwise some basic knowledge about food is good but that would not hurt a meat eater would it? Vegans (those who do not even use animal products such as milk(-products), eggs, honey) have to take care about some stuff like vitamin B12, but vegetarians do not need to worry.
As long as you do not try to eat normal-but-without-the-meat of course. Anyhow i think that's why some folks are scared about not eating meat, they probable think that they would have to eat a dish of bland potatoes with overcooked vegetables. Invite yourself to some experienced full- or part-time vegetarians, don't think of missing the meat and enjoy.
BTW I had the 'joy' to live in a house with 2 vegan students and we always cook together so for some weeks we tried to cook vegan for everybody out of solidarity but eventually we couldn't stand it anymore. Well i was biased because the vegan bloke tried to steal my girlfriend, ass-hole (I won, sort of) . But since then I sometimes accidently cook vegan. (and then i quickly add cheese
(not) )Some folks here say they would really miss meat. Well actually I can't say I ever miss it. I sometimes take a bite and I can understand you can miss the texture but the taste is so boring. From the meat I sometimes miss, e.g. sausages. most of the taste comes from adding herbs 'n spices. And my cooking improved a lot since I turned vegetarian.
Strong!!
About the feeling strong from meat, that's so prehistoric. Go eat the brains of your teachers and see how smart you get. Duh. Well ok one exception, some of these people who can hardly put any fat on their bodies (I envy them but it seems they envy me too) seem to gain weight quicker when eating meat (not necessarily form 11 to 11).
5000x worse
Comparing pesticides on veggies to hormones&antibiotics on meat? Weird comparison because of the difference in scale.
Anyhow pig's meat is calculated to be 50 times (that's 5000%!) less environmental friendly as organic vegetarian alternatives based on soy or maize. Cow's meat is worse.
Lïghtnïng also mentioned hormones. Well just do not eat too much _soy_ to replace meat because there are these pseudo whatever hormones in it (oestrogenes?). Or was that another myth by the disinformation maffia, anyone?
The constant addition of antibiotics to fodder has finally been abolished in the European Union a short time ago.
Veganerotica: hahaha, OMG!
. I just use leather (modestly) as long as they are growing the animals mostly for the meat. Lightning: " I will be honest. I have yet to see a synthetic that is as durable or just as good at leather. " Well varies per application, but i can ruin the leather as good as the synthetic. And my wallet must be 10 years old, washed several times, I couldn't wash a leather wallet could I? Anyway I must look like a vegetarius evangelicus now. Full stop then. BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
my parents were quite disgusted to find that their new expensive dining suite has fake suede on the chairs (they of course tried to claim afterwards they chose it for me). The reason it has it thou is that it's more durable, wipe clean, washing machine safe and looks identical.
The problem people have with fake leather, and the problem I have with fake leather when it comes to buying shoes, is that most fake leather products are aimed at people who can't afford leather and are therefore cheap and tacky plastic immitation stuff. When i go into good clothes shops and ask if they have any non leacther belts they think i'm taking the piss. If i go down the market, it will be absoluetly hideous. There is really nice materials out there now, but sadely there's very few companies using it commercially.
my parents were quite disgusted to find that their new expensive dining suite has fake suede on the chairs (they of course tried to claim afterwards they chose it for me). The reason it has it thou is that it's more durable, wipe clean, washing machine safe and looks identical.
The problem people have with fake leather, and the problem I have with fake leather when it comes to buying shoes, is that most fake leather products are aimed at people who can't afford leather and are therefore cheap and tacky plastic immitation stuff. When i go into good clothes shops and ask if they have any non leacther belts they think i'm taking the piss. If i go down the market, it will be absoluetly hideous. There is really nice materials out there now, but sadely there's very few companies using it commercially.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
That's because you're an intelligent person. If you met 85% of the patients I work with, you'd see the problem I face. The concept of protein complimentarity, which really isn't that difficult to master, would confuse these people beyond belief.
Being a vegetarian requires some creativity and ingenuity. It means that you can't just cook a slab of meat and call it dinner. It means that you need to learn to combine ingredients and make good use of spices and flavors. It also means that you have to know about good non-meat sources of Vitamin B-12.
For those of us who choose vegetarianism, we are willing to put forth the effort to learn about this stuff and we don't really see it as a big deal. But try to tell someone who has never even considered the possibility to never eat meat and they are clueless.
Really, I was completely thunderstruck by just how stupid people can be while remaining functional citizens of society once I started to work with patients. I have seen "the cross-section of America" and it is not pretty.
The EU has done some great things with agriculture. The fact that GMO's are not used in the EU is great because...guess what? There's no food shortage in the EU! So why use GMO's? GMO's are great if there's a food shortage, but using them just so you can sell them is unnecessary.
As for soy, I've heard some people rage on about how horrible it is. Of course, these are the same people who believe that all health problems are caused by intestinal parasites and that dietary changes will cure cellulitis.
On the other hand, I think that there is some evidence out there that massive over-intake can cause some problems. My advice on soy is, as in all things, use it in moderation. There's evidence that it's good for you, too. And it's still always going to be better for you than meat. Remember, meat has hormones in it that are naturally produced by the animal's body. And probably at higher concentrations than those found in soy.
However, the risks of a meat-centered diet do outweigh the risks of a soy-centered diet.
Quote:
The Mad Doctor worried about vegetarians having to know a lot about food. Sorry but I disagree.
That's because you're an intelligent person. If you met 85% of the patients I work with, you'd see the problem I face. The concept of protein complimentarity, which really isn't that difficult to master, would confuse these people beyond belief.
Being a vegetarian requires some creativity and ingenuity. It means that you can't just cook a slab of meat and call it dinner. It means that you need to learn to combine ingredients and make good use of spices and flavors. It also means that you have to know about good non-meat sources of Vitamin B-12.
For those of us who choose vegetarianism, we are willing to put forth the effort to learn about this stuff and we don't really see it as a big deal. But try to tell someone who has never even considered the possibility to never eat meat and they are clueless.
Really, I was completely thunderstruck by just how stupid people can be while remaining functional citizens of society once I started to work with patients. I have seen "the cross-section of America" and it is not pretty.
Quote:
Lïghtnïng also mentioned hormones. Well just do not eat too much _soy_ to replace meat because there are these pseudo whatever hormones in it (oestrogenes?). Or was that another myth by the disinformation maffia, anyone? The constant addition of antibiotics to fodder has finally been abolished in the European Union a short time ago.
The EU has done some great things with agriculture. The fact that GMO's are not used in the EU is great because...guess what? There's no food shortage in the EU! So why use GMO's? GMO's are great if there's a food shortage, but using them just so you can sell them is unnecessary.
As for soy, I've heard some people rage on about how horrible it is. Of course, these are the same people who believe that all health problems are caused by intestinal parasites and that dietary changes will cure cellulitis.
On the other hand, I think that there is some evidence out there that massive over-intake can cause some problems. My advice on soy is, as in all things, use it in moderation. There's evidence that it's good for you, too. And it's still always going to be better for you than meat. Remember, meat has hormones in it that are naturally produced by the animal's body. And probably at higher concentrations than those found in soy.
However, the risks of a meat-centered diet do outweigh the risks of a soy-centered diet.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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