Forums > Social Chat > On not having kids...
Login/Join to ParticipateNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Hopefully this will serve to entertain someone who is dreadfully bored at work. Unfortunately, it's an extremely long post and has little to no point at all. Do with it what you will. And if you're not dreadfully bored and stuck at work with nothing productive to do... for the love of God, click on another post.
Every now and then I have a deep thought that I feel like throwing at HoP... just to see how it bounces back.
Growing up I'd always loved working with kids. I still enjoy playing with 'toys' but more importantly, I've always had a very protective personality when it comes to folks younger than me. In High School I remember all of my friends telling me how great a dad I would be and I was looking forward to having kids. But recently something changed.
I've been really happy the last few years. I've gained an optimism in life. I'm having a great time. I know that some things suck in life, but I've been enjoying the little things more and appreciating the time that I'm alive. After breaking up with my most recent girlfriend I had a very strange sense of relief. I realized that I didn't want to go down that path anymore. I'd recently started thinking about kids as (what my buddy calls) "A huge administrative hassle."
Ya'see, I already have TONS of fulfilling daily interactions with kids. I teach High School for those of you who don't know. I love my interactions with my students. But I also love the fact that, when the day is done, I can go HOME. I feel that because I am a teacher I UNDERSTAND a bit more of what it's like to be around kids all day. I know it's different having MY kids... I know I'd be a great Dad. I have infinite patience with children and am utterly responsible. I get along great with kids and would gladly give my life to save one. Unfortunately, just because you'd be good at something, doesn't mean you should do it.
But then I started asking myself: How great would it be if I didn't have to have kids? How great would it be if I found someone who just wanted to be with me... and we could be together and do silly romantic things all the time without being bound to the overwhelming responsibility of having a kid? I DEFINITELY want to get married and am utterly romantic at heart. The thought of actually meeting a woman who DIDN'T want to have kids was really exciting. In fact, the idea that I didn't have to have kids at all made me really happy. And that thought within it self sealed the deal:
I don't want kids.
You'd think that'd be the end of a very long post, but no... what I was really surprised by was how much of a freak that decision has made me. I had no idea. I even looked at the data from the 2000 census. 86% of Americans between 35 and 45 already had kids. Add another few percent for those who have their kids above 35 and we're looking at like 90% of the general population who will have kids before they die. Figure a low estimate that 5% of the general population is gay and doesn't want kids (understanding that there are gay families but they'd be in the 86%) and maybe 5% have fertility issues that keep them childless and chose not to adopt. So who does that leave me to marry and not have kids with?
Nobody.
I know that a few of you are going to chime in and say "I don't want kids either" but you're wrong. You'll meet the right guy/girl, graduate from High School (
) and then change your mind.
And this crosses all socioeconomic boundaries as well. My totally crazy, drug-addct, psycho-pyromaniac acquaintances are like "Dude, you don't want kids? That's messed up!!"
I really gotta wrap up this ultralong post so I'll just throw some points out there:
1) It's sad how many people instinctively 'settle down' and have kids without thinking of the huge repercussions or even contemplate the OPTION of not having kids.
2) I'm AMAZED by how FEW people chose NOT to have kids. The statistic that only 14% of 35 - 45 year olds DIDN'T already have kids TOTALLY floored me.
OK, thanks for listening.
Feedback? Thoughs? Drawings? Interpretive Dance?
Hopefully this will serve to entertain someone who is dreadfully bored at work. Unfortunately, it's an extremely long post and has little to no point at all. Do with it what you will. And if you're not dreadfully bored and stuck at work with nothing productive to do... for the love of God, click on another post.
Every now and then I have a deep thought that I feel like throwing at HoP... just to see how it bounces back.
Growing up I'd always loved working with kids. I still enjoy playing with 'toys' but more importantly, I've always had a very protective personality when it comes to folks younger than me. In High School I remember all of my friends telling me how great a dad I would be and I was looking forward to having kids. But recently something changed.
I've been really happy the last few years. I've gained an optimism in life. I'm having a great time. I know that some things suck in life, but I've been enjoying the little things more and appreciating the time that I'm alive. After breaking up with my most recent girlfriend I had a very strange sense of relief. I realized that I didn't want to go down that path anymore. I'd recently started thinking about kids as (what my buddy calls) "A huge administrative hassle."
Ya'see, I already have TONS of fulfilling daily interactions with kids. I teach High School for those of you who don't know. I love my interactions with my students. But I also love the fact that, when the day is done, I can go HOME. I feel that because I am a teacher I UNDERSTAND a bit more of what it's like to be around kids all day. I know it's different having MY kids... I know I'd be a great Dad. I have infinite patience with children and am utterly responsible. I get along great with kids and would gladly give my life to save one. Unfortunately, just because you'd be good at something, doesn't mean you should do it.
But then I started asking myself: How great would it be if I didn't have to have kids? How great would it be if I found someone who just wanted to be with me... and we could be together and do silly romantic things all the time without being bound to the overwhelming responsibility of having a kid? I DEFINITELY want to get married and am utterly romantic at heart. The thought of actually meeting a woman who DIDN'T want to have kids was really exciting. In fact, the idea that I didn't have to have kids at all made me really happy. And that thought within it self sealed the deal:
I don't want kids.
You'd think that'd be the end of a very long post, but no... what I was really surprised by was how much of a freak that decision has made me. I had no idea. I even looked at the data from the 2000 census. 86% of Americans between 35 and 45 already had kids. Add another few percent for those who have their kids above 35 and we're looking at like 90% of the general population who will have kids before they die. Figure a low estimate that 5% of the general population is gay and doesn't want kids (understanding that there are gay families but they'd be in the 86%) and maybe 5% have fertility issues that keep them childless and chose not to adopt. So who does that leave me to marry and not have kids with?
Nobody.
I know that a few of you are going to chime in and say "I don't want kids either" but you're wrong. You'll meet the right guy/girl, graduate from High School (
) and then change your mind.And this crosses all socioeconomic boundaries as well. My totally crazy, drug-addct, psycho-pyromaniac acquaintances are like "Dude, you don't want kids? That's messed up!!"
I really gotta wrap up this ultralong post so I'll just throw some points out there:
1) It's sad how many people instinctively 'settle down' and have kids without thinking of the huge repercussions or even contemplate the OPTION of not having kids.
2) I'm AMAZED by how FEW people chose NOT to have kids. The statistic that only 14% of 35 - 45 year olds DIDN'T already have kids TOTALLY floored me.
OK, thanks for listening.
Feedback? Thoughs? Drawings? Interpretive Dance?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
I'm not neccisarialy better than most, but I am deffinitly better than some. That is, I'm not a crack head.
I'm not neccisarialy better than most, but I am deffinitly better than some. That is, I'm not a crack head.
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
*Note to self: Dantana NOT a crackhead.*
Got it.
*Note to self: Dantana NOT a crackhead.*
Got it.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
Haha, I agree. They don't really get fun until about 2... At least from my limited experience with my nephew...
Im not sure about the whole kid thing either. I want to have kids probably someday, but I'm 20 and don't think that day will come anytime soon. I'd like to pass on my knowledge to someone else, but I was thinking about teaching to cure that when I'm older... the whole living through your children thing seems creepy to me. Wouldn't want to burden anyone with that kind of tie to the past... plus I think I'd be a little too... how you say... relenting? I believe very strongly in letting them learn on their own, and to some that may be considered child endangering I guess...
Quote:
I also agree with Kyrian in that I don't particularly want my own until after they are at least a year old and over that whole spitting up mess. It just grosses me out for some reason.
Haha, I agree. They don't really get fun until about 2... At least from my limited experience with my nephew...
Im not sure about the whole kid thing either. I want to have kids probably someday, but I'm 20 and don't think that day will come anytime soon. I'd like to pass on my knowledge to someone else, but I was thinking about teaching to cure that when I'm older... the whole living through your children thing seems creepy to me. Wouldn't want to burden anyone with that kind of tie to the past... plus I think I'd be a little too... how you say... relenting? I believe very strongly in letting them learn on their own, and to some that may be considered child endangering I guess...
member
108 posts
Location: Oakland, CA
108 posts
Location: Oakland, CA
Posted:
well, i am 35 and not married anymore ... and i don't want kids. never have.
i agreed to marry my ex on the condtion i didn't have to provide an heir.
my boyfriend now would like kids and is putting up with me not wanting any. we are fortunate to have other family around who do have children so we can nurture when we want to and run away when things get loud
just to prove we exist.
well, i am 35 and not married anymore ... and i don't want kids. never have.
i agreed to marry my ex on the condtion i didn't have to provide an heir.
my boyfriend now would like kids and is putting up with me not wanting any. we are fortunate to have other family around who do have children so we can nurture when we want to and run away when things get loud
just to prove we exist.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
Learning through pain?????
Quote:
I believe very strongly in letting them learn on their own,
Learning through pain?????
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
i think there's a balance. as parents it's natural to not want to see your kids suffer through mistakes, but you also have to learn that they need to figure it out on their own for some things. i'm guessing this is what you meant ibeefy?
Quote:
Quote:
I believe very strongly in letting them learn on their own,
Learning through pain?????
i think there's a balance. as parents it's natural to not want to see your kids suffer through mistakes, but you also have to learn that they need to figure it out on their own for some things. i'm guessing this is what you meant ibeefy?
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
False Eyelash
346 posts
Location: New York City
346 posts
Location: New York City
Posted:
I have a friend who's in her 50s. She never wanted kids and now wishes she'd had one. She said she feels like she has a lot to offer and is curious about what the experience would have been like...
I really don't know if I want kids or not. I'm just starting to get good at taking care of myself - much less someone else. It's hard to imagine having kids when I'm not in a relationship which would support that. And it's hard to imagine finding that relationship.
Part of my thinking about wanting kids is the same was wanting a cat. I like cats. I enjoy having them aroudn. And I can have a cat - I have the space (sort of) and the money to support one. So since there are cats in need I have a cat. I feel like if I'm capable of having a kid - meaning I'd be a good parent and such - I should have one. Not great reasoning but hey.
I have a friend who's in her 50s. She never wanted kids and now wishes she'd had one. She said she feels like she has a lot to offer and is curious about what the experience would have been like...
I really don't know if I want kids or not. I'm just starting to get good at taking care of myself - much less someone else. It's hard to imagine having kids when I'm not in a relationship which would support that. And it's hard to imagine finding that relationship.
Part of my thinking about wanting kids is the same was wanting a cat. I like cats. I enjoy having them aroudn. And I can have a cat - I have the space (sort of) and the money to support one. So since there are cats in need I have a cat. I feel like if I'm capable of having a kid - meaning I'd be a good parent and such - I should have one. Not great reasoning but hey.
All the freaky people make the beauty of the world.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
See, I'm used to having my adult patients spit up, projectile vomit, cough, snot, urinate, and stool on me. I'm used to being woken up at all hours to care for a sick patient. Every day, I have incredible responsibilities resting on my shoulders and as time goes on, those responsibilities will get weightier and weightier.
So the work and nastiness involved with having a kid won't bother me. I'm already quite adept at most of the technical skills required (I can change a diaper [including baby bum cleaning] in 45 seconds flat).
But the experience of actually having my own child...my responsibility, my kid to raise and instill the values that I hold most sacred...
What an opportunity!
Quote:
I also agree with Kyrian in that I don't particularly want my own until after they are at least a year old and over that whole spitting up mess. It just grosses me out for some reason.
See, I'm used to having my adult patients spit up, projectile vomit, cough, snot, urinate, and stool on me. I'm used to being woken up at all hours to care for a sick patient. Every day, I have incredible responsibilities resting on my shoulders and as time goes on, those responsibilities will get weightier and weightier.
So the work and nastiness involved with having a kid won't bother me. I'm already quite adept at most of the technical skills required (I can change a diaper [including baby bum cleaning] in 45 seconds flat).
But the experience of actually having my own child...my responsibility, my kid to raise and instill the values that I hold most sacred...
What an opportunity!
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
so lightning, i have a question for ya...
i've often pondered this myself given the profession i'm in, and you and i are in similar situations. do you ever fear that your work duties will overrun your life, leaving you little time with your own child? or that you will get so overwhelmed with work stuff that you don't want to do it at home too?
i HIGHLY doubt that would ever be the case with you, but i've often feared it for myself. i have a strong passion for what i do, but i get tired, and i get worn out, and sometimes i don't want to deal with anyone's problems when i get home. i don't want to listen anymore. and i'm afraid i'd take that out on my kids if i had any. and that's not fair. (that and psychologists have a nasty reputation for [censored] up their kids
) i had a professor tell me once (half serious, half joking) "i believe [psychologists] only have a certain number of listening hours in their lifetime. when you're out, you're out. so when i go home from work, i don't listen to my kids." (the last part was the joking part obviously). i sometimes think he's right. i have a lot of reasons as to why i am leaning towards not having kids, and one of them is that i'm going to let my work interfere with my child raising. that i'm going to be too overwhelmed with my job that i'm going to shut off when i get home. or that i'm going to be too into my job that i'm going to over-analyze my kids and turn them neurotic.
so lightning, i have a question for ya...
i've often pondered this myself given the profession i'm in, and you and i are in similar situations. do you ever fear that your work duties will overrun your life, leaving you little time with your own child? or that you will get so overwhelmed with work stuff that you don't want to do it at home too?
i HIGHLY doubt that would ever be the case with you, but i've often feared it for myself. i have a strong passion for what i do, but i get tired, and i get worn out, and sometimes i don't want to deal with anyone's problems when i get home. i don't want to listen anymore. and i'm afraid i'd take that out on my kids if i had any. and that's not fair. (that and psychologists have a nasty reputation for [censored] up their kids
) i had a professor tell me once (half serious, half joking) "i believe [psychologists] only have a certain number of listening hours in their lifetime. when you're out, you're out. so when i go home from work, i don't listen to my kids." (the last part was the joking part obviously). i sometimes think he's right. i have a lot of reasons as to why i am leaning towards not having kids, and one of them is that i'm going to let my work interfere with my child raising. that i'm going to be too overwhelmed with my job that i'm going to shut off when i get home. or that i'm going to be too into my job that i'm going to over-analyze my kids and turn them neurotic. I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
pounce, those are the same reasons I have absolutely no desire to date (or marry) lawyers or most doctors.
The lawyers I've been around constantly have to work late, and are frequently called out of town on business. I want my husband around for me and his family. I don't want to be worrying about him flying to some strange country or not being home for dinner on a regular basis. My best friend from college is in the process of planning her wedding to a lawyer, and she is always worried about her fiance because he has to fly off to strange places with only a days notice to look at files. Big pain in the butt that I'd rather not have to deal with.
I've also dated guys either in med. school, or fully practicing, and boy Lightning, do I have a lot of respect for what you do. I, for one, could not deal with those hours. I know they do get better depending on what speciality you choose and if you go into private practice or not. That's why some docs might be considered.
I do want my husband to be around for kids (if and when I find one and have any). I think it is extremely important. I also think having a job in academia helps where that is concerned in that you have more flexibility in your job schedule than say someone who consistenly works 8-5 and isn't allowed to bring the kids to work when they are sick.
pounce, those are the same reasons I have absolutely no desire to date (or marry) lawyers or most doctors.
The lawyers I've been around constantly have to work late, and are frequently called out of town on business. I want my husband around for me and his family. I don't want to be worrying about him flying to some strange country or not being home for dinner on a regular basis. My best friend from college is in the process of planning her wedding to a lawyer, and she is always worried about her fiance because he has to fly off to strange places with only a days notice to look at files. Big pain in the butt that I'd rather not have to deal with.
I've also dated guys either in med. school, or fully practicing, and boy Lightning, do I have a lot of respect for what you do. I, for one, could not deal with those hours. I know they do get better depending on what speciality you choose and if you go into private practice or not. That's why some docs might be considered.
I do want my husband to be around for kids (if and when I find one and have any). I think it is extremely important. I also think having a job in academia helps where that is concerned in that you have more flexibility in your job schedule than say someone who consistenly works 8-5 and isn't allowed to bring the kids to work when they are sick.
member
102 posts
Location: London
102 posts
Location: London
Posted:
First of all, must confess I haven't read the whole thread, but am intrigued by it so thought I'd add my 2 p worth.
I don't want kids. Never have. I just don't have a maternal bone in my body, and I believe there are much more useful and construcutive things I could add to the world than another body and mind. I'm lucky enough to have a partner who is of the same opinion. It's such a weight off my mind knowing that he feels the same.
I get very angry when people tell me I will change my mind. Who are you to tell me that? You don't know me! Grrr.
My boy and I had a chat about all this recently and came to the conclusion that the reason some people have babies is purely so they aren't left alone in old age. Scary but sadly true I reckon.
I have no problem with people ahving huge broods of sprogs if they want, but I massively resent the social constraints which say that I *should*. Especially at the office. I've had to really think about jobs in case they think I'm likely to go on maternity leave in the future, which is utterly unfair.
Sorry, best stop, bit pissed
First of all, must confess I haven't read the whole thread, but am intrigued by it so thought I'd add my 2 p worth.
I don't want kids. Never have. I just don't have a maternal bone in my body, and I believe there are much more useful and construcutive things I could add to the world than another body and mind. I'm lucky enough to have a partner who is of the same opinion. It's such a weight off my mind knowing that he feels the same.
I get very angry when people tell me I will change my mind. Who are you to tell me that? You don't know me! Grrr.
My boy and I had a chat about all this recently and came to the conclusion that the reason some people have babies is purely so they aren't left alone in old age. Scary but sadly true I reckon.
I have no problem with people ahving huge broods of sprogs if they want, but I massively resent the social constraints which say that I *should*. Especially at the office. I've had to really think about jobs in case they think I'm likely to go on maternity leave in the future, which is utterly unfair.
Sorry, best stop, bit pissed
Why is it that everthing which is fun is illegal, immoral, or fattening?
I don't want a title.
940 posts
940 posts
Posted:
That's the other part of why I don't want kids. I want to be a lawyer, a solo practitioner, and without kids I'll be able to work only the hours I want and still make enough money to have my fun.
Quote:
pounce, those are the same reasons I have absolutely no desire to date (or marry) lawyers or most doctors.
The lawyers I've been around constantly have to work late, and are frequently called out of town on business. I want my husband around for me and his family. I don't want to be worrying about him flying to some strange country or not being home for dinner on a regular basis. My best friend from college is in the process of planning her wedding to a lawyer, and she is always worried about her fiance because he has to fly off to strange places with only a days notice to look at files. Big pain in the butt that I'd rather not have to deal with.
That's the other part of why I don't want kids. I want to be a lawyer, a solo practitioner, and without kids I'll be able to work only the hours I want and still make enough money to have my fun.
E pluribus unum, baby.
member
313 posts
Location: london,uk
313 posts
Location: london,uk
Posted:
OK,so the majority of people in this thread don't want kids.Absolutely fine.But i think you are just as guilty as the people who say "you'll change your mind" when you have to come up with reasons for people who have kids ie. alibird..."people have babies purely so they won't be alone in old age"......come on.......it's so much more than that,it's a feeling that comes over you,it's being in love,it's not being rational(sometimes)......!
EDITED_BY: woodnymph (1074934985)
OK,so the majority of people in this thread don't want kids.Absolutely fine.But i think you are just as guilty as the people who say "you'll change your mind" when you have to come up with reasons for people who have kids ie. alibird..."people have babies purely so they won't be alone in old age"......come on.......it's so much more than that,it's a feeling that comes over you,it's being in love,it's not being rational(sometimes)......!
EDITED_BY: woodnymph (1074934985)
member
102 posts
Location: London
102 posts
Location: London
Posted:
I knew posting while drunk was a bad idea... sorry if that comment offended, it wasn't exactly what I meant.
If you read it back, I did only say "some" people. I do know some people for whom that has been/is a factor, certainly. If I'd been sober I'd have expanded to say that there are people who do have children for all the wrong reasons and it's a shame for both them and the child - e.g. trying to save a relationship/marriage, wanting someone to love them unconditionally, wanting "a baby" without considering the next 18 years after that... all examples of situations I know of personally.
There is also a great deal of pressure on people like myself (stable home/job/relationship for some time) to move on to the "next natural stage" by our respective families.... "so when are we going to hear the patter of tiny feet?" is a phrase I've heard too often over Christmas this last year . I resent that, and even more I resent the implication that if I don't oblige in providing offspring I am somehow selfish or coldhearted for not bringing a baby into the family.
So I suppose what I meant was, I have a truly great admiration for people who choose to have children, it's the biggest commitment you'll ever make, much more so than marriage (imho). It's an amazing thing to watch my friends grow into parenthood and build relationships with their kids. But it's not something that I feel the need or urge to do right now. If that changes, so be it. I'll come back and rave about how great motherhood is.
The person who started the thread just needn't feel weird about not wanting kids. There are far more people who feel that way than you might imagine.
Hope that clears up what I meant and again sorry if the initial comment offended at all.
I knew posting while drunk was a bad idea... sorry if that comment offended, it wasn't exactly what I meant.
If you read it back, I did only say "some" people. I do know some people for whom that has been/is a factor, certainly. If I'd been sober I'd have expanded to say that there are people who do have children for all the wrong reasons and it's a shame for both them and the child - e.g. trying to save a relationship/marriage, wanting someone to love them unconditionally, wanting "a baby" without considering the next 18 years after that... all examples of situations I know of personally.
There is also a great deal of pressure on people like myself (stable home/job/relationship for some time) to move on to the "next natural stage" by our respective families.... "so when are we going to hear the patter of tiny feet?" is a phrase I've heard too often over Christmas this last year
. I resent that, and even more I resent the implication that if I don't oblige in providing offspring I am somehow selfish or coldhearted for not bringing a baby into the family.So I suppose what I meant was, I have a truly great admiration for people who choose to have children, it's the biggest commitment you'll ever make, much more so than marriage (imho). It's an amazing thing to watch my friends grow into parenthood and build relationships with their kids. But it's not something that I feel the need or urge to do right now. If that changes, so be it. I'll come back and rave about how great motherhood is.
The person who started the thread just needn't feel weird about not wanting kids. There are far more people who feel that way than you might imagine.
Hope that clears up what I meant and again sorry if the initial comment offended at all.
Why is it that everthing which is fun is illegal, immoral, or fattening?
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Yes. But on the other hand, in my real career, I am never going to be working as hard as I am right now. And so if I am working as hard as I am now and yet still have time to do stuff that I think is important, I think I'll be able to pull of the whole kids thing.
Quote:
so lightning, i have a question for ya...
i've often pondered this myself given the profession i'm in, and you and i are in similar situations. do you ever fear that your work duties will overrun your life, leaving you little time with your own child? or that you will get so overwhelmed with work stuff that you don't want to do it at home too?
Yes. But on the other hand, in my real career, I am never going to be working as hard as I am right now. And so if I am working as hard as I am now and yet still have time to do stuff that I think is important, I think I'll be able to pull of the whole kids thing.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
i'm glad you've put thought into it too. that's important. i know a lot of people in our professions that don't consider that aspect, and hence give the rest of us a bad name
for what it's worth, i know you'll make an excellent father lightning.
Quote:Quote:
so lightning, i have a question for ya...
i've often pondered this myself given the profession i'm in, and you and i are in similar situations. do you ever fear that your work duties will overrun your life, leaving you little time with your own child? or that you will get so overwhelmed with work stuff that you don't want to do it at home too?
Yes. But on the other hand, in my real career, I am never going to be working as hard as I am right now. And so if I am working as hard as I am now and yet still have time to do stuff that I think is important, I think I'll be able to pull of the whole kids thing.
i'm glad you've put thought into it too. that's important. i know a lot of people in our professions that don't consider that aspect, and hence give the rest of us a bad name
for what it's worth, i know you'll make an excellent father lightning.
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Personally, I don't think gays should have kids.
I don't think straight people should have kids either.
It would just make my job a whole hell of a lot easier if there weren't any kids at all.
Personally, I don't think gays should have kids.
I don't think straight people should have kids either.
It would just make my job a whole hell of a lot easier if there weren't any kids at all.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Heh. Me too. Or at least if they never got sick...
Heh. Me too. Or at least if they never got sick...
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
False Eyelash
346 posts
Location: New York City
346 posts
Location: New York City
Posted:
That's pretty interesting.
My dad was a therapist, his girlfriend was a therapist. My aunt is a therapist. My mom teaches people how to be therapists. My step-dad has a phd in sociology. And let's not forget that my day job is at a counseling center. (For abused kids, as it happens. Child abuse is a whole other thing...) So I hear your concerns.
First, growing up in a therapist family was hard. Can't lie. Therapists are very good at looking at others, less good - in my experience - at looking at themselves. This came to a head when I was about 16, when everything came to a head. And in the grand scheme it wasn't that big of a deal. Better to have therapist parents than drug dealer parents.
Much more important is that you can't grow up in that kind of environment without absorbing some of the skills - and that has only served me. Kids who are listened to become good listeners, etc etc. (Not to mention that they also feel like they are worth listening to.) Actually, people ask me from time to time why I don't become a therapist.
Mom, Dad - I love you. But I will NEVER BE A THERAPIST!!
As for running out of listening energy...When you listen to your kids are you really listening to your kids? Or are you participating in their lives? I don't think listening to a client is the same type of engagement as going home to hear your child complain about how Joe pushed her in the lunch line.
I too think that I probably don't want kids. And then I think...do I really not want kids or are my insecurities getting the better of me? Tough to answer. Having kids makes me pretty insecure. So for now I'll continue pondering whether to get a 2nd cat.
*wanders off pondering....*
Quote:
i have a lot of reasons as to why i am leaning towards not having kids, and one of them is that i'm going to let my work interfere with my child raising. that i'm going to be too overwhelmed with my job that i'm going to shut off when i get home. or that i'm going to be too into my job that i'm going to over-analyze my kids and turn them neurotic.
That's pretty interesting.
My dad was a therapist, his girlfriend was a therapist. My aunt is a therapist. My mom teaches people how to be therapists. My step-dad has a phd in sociology. And let's not forget that my day job is at a counseling center. (For abused kids, as it happens. Child abuse is a whole other thing...)
So I hear your concerns. First, growing up in a therapist family was hard. Can't lie. Therapists are very good at looking at others, less good - in my experience - at looking at themselves. This came to a head when I was about 16, when everything came to a head. And in the grand scheme it wasn't that big of a deal. Better to have therapist parents than drug dealer parents.
Much more important is that you can't grow up in that kind of environment without absorbing some of the skills - and that has only served me. Kids who are listened to become good listeners, etc etc. (Not to mention that they also feel like they are worth listening to.) Actually, people ask me from time to time why I don't become a therapist.
Mom, Dad - I love you. But I will NEVER BE A THERAPIST!!
As for running out of listening energy...When you listen to your kids are you really listening to your kids? Or are you participating in their lives? I don't think listening to a client is the same type of engagement as going home to hear your child complain about how Joe pushed her in the lunch line.
I too think that I probably don't want kids. And then I think...do I really not want kids or are my insecurities getting the better of me? Tough to answer. Having kids makes me pretty insecure. So for now I'll continue pondering whether to get a 2nd cat.
*wanders off pondering....*
All the freaky people make the beauty of the world.
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
much respect woodnymph, beautiful description.
I know a few people who don't want to have children, but most of the people I know either already have kids (how many wanted them in the first place? I don't know)
It is so difficult for me to understand the desire to NOT procreate one's genetic material. I guess that is because I am so oposite from that. Actually I think most people SHOULD have at least one child (the most notable exceptions being Child molesters and and rapists and serial killers).
Yes, I even thing NYC and Lightning should have kids....
But that is the Biologist in me talking. I guess I am to wrapped up in the whole natural selection and genetic diversity thing.
I think it might make an interesting poll to find out how many HOPers want/don't/have kids. I wonder how we warped individuals (HOPers) compare to "normal" people when it comes to this subject? Malcolm?
so far, based on this thread, the nays have it.
much respect woodnymph,
beautiful description.I know a few people who don't want to have children, but most of the people I know either already have kids (how many wanted them in the first place? I don't know)
It is so difficult for me to understand the desire to NOT procreate one's genetic material. I guess that is because I am so oposite from that. Actually I think most people SHOULD have at least one child (the most notable exceptions being Child molesters and and rapists and serial killers).
Yes, I even thing NYC and Lightning should have kids....
But that is the Biologist in me talking. I guess I am to wrapped up in the whole natural selection and genetic diversity thing.
I think it might make an interesting poll to find out how many HOPers want/don't/have kids. I wonder how we warped individuals (HOPers
) compare to "normal" people when it comes to this subject? Malcolm?so far, based on this thread, the nays have it.
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
you make some excellent points woodnymph.
i would like to think that because i'm even pondering all of these issues, it would better equip me to be a good parent, but i don't know.
yes and no. i put a lot of effort into working with my clients, and i do have an emotional investment in them to an extent, as much as you try to stay neutral, it's human nature to care.
at the same time, i think i would be more involved in my child's life to the point that it would be tiring as well. i've started to learn how to set better boundaries, because as a therapist, i tend to be the one all my friends, and even some acquaintances, turn to. and when you spend your whole life helping everyone else, your own mental health starts to go. i've started getting a lot better and setting that boundary with people in my life, but with a child you can't set that boundary because that's what you are supposed to do as a parent.
you make some excellent points woodnymph.
i would like to think that because i'm even pondering all of these issues, it would better equip me to be a good parent, but i don't know.
Quote:
As for running out of listening energy...When you listen to your kids are you really listening to your kids? Or are you participating in their lives? I don't think listening to a client is the same type of engagement as going home to hear your child complain about how Joe pushed her in the lunch line.
yes and no. i put a lot of effort into working with my clients, and i do have an emotional investment in them to an extent, as much as you try to stay neutral, it's human nature to care.
at the same time, i think i would be more involved in my child's life to the point that it would be tiring as well. i've started to learn how to set better boundaries, because as a therapist, i tend to be the one all my friends, and even some acquaintances, turn to. and when you spend your whole life helping everyone else, your own mental health starts to go. i've started getting a lot better and setting that boundary with people in my life, but with a child you can't set that boundary because that's what you are supposed to do as a parent.
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Dan, I don't want you to think I'm even disagreeing with you because it's not that. I don't even understand what this sentence means:
I TOTALLY understand the desire to have a kid. It's just not the decision that I'd make. Like strawberry ice cream is good, but I'd prefer chocolate. To me, the attraction to having children is to teach another human, protect him, raise him to be a good citizen, teach him my values, to feel that you've contributed to society by adding a positive member... many many great reasons for having kids.
I've never in my life even had the THOUGHT to "procreate my genetic material". I really have little interest in my sequence of DNA nucleotides being spread throughout the planet. I never ever thought of it like that. I'm surprised that someone else does.
Though on another note (less to do with Dan) it does concern me that the 'natural default' is to have children. Too many people had kids because 'everyone else is' and then regret it. I think having kids OR not having kids should be the most important decision you make. It should be an active, cognative decision.
Dan, I don't want you to think I'm even disagreeing with you because it's not that. I don't even understand what this sentence means:
Quote:
It is so difficult for me to understand the desire to NOT procreate one's genetic material.
I TOTALLY understand the desire to have a kid. It's just not the decision that I'd make. Like strawberry ice cream is good, but I'd prefer chocolate. To me, the attraction to having children is to teach another human, protect him, raise him to be a good citizen, teach him my values, to feel that you've contributed to society by adding a positive member... many many great reasons for having kids.
I've never in my life even had the THOUGHT to "procreate my genetic material". I really have little interest in my sequence of DNA nucleotides being spread throughout the planet. I never ever thought of it like that. I'm surprised that someone else does.
Though on another note (less to do with Dan) it does concern me that the 'natural default' is to have children. Too many people had kids because 'everyone else is' and then regret it. I think having kids OR not having kids should be the most important decision you make. It should be an active, cognative decision.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
False Eyelash
346 posts
Location: New York City
346 posts
Location: New York City
Posted:
True true. Very tiring, kids are. Boundaries and self-care take on a new meaning. But hopefully there'd be a twin flame type to help things along.
I worry about that too. I have a lot of trouble with energy, even at the best of times. Maybe I just don't have enough energy for a kid. And then I ask...again...do I really not have enough energy? Or is that my pesky insecurities raising their annoying heads?
With this issue more than others I have a super hard time differentiating what I want from what the world tells me I should want from what I'm afraid of.
(PS That was me, not woodnymph
)
Quote:
at the same time, i think i would be more involved in my child's life to the point that it would be tiring as well. i've started to learn how to set better boundaries, because as a therapist, i tend to be the one all my friends, and even some acquaintances, turn to.
True true. Very tiring, kids are. Boundaries and self-care take on a new meaning. But hopefully there'd be a twin flame type to help things along.
I worry about that too. I have a lot of trouble with energy, even at the best of times. Maybe I just don't have enough energy for a kid. And then I ask...again...do I really not have enough energy? Or is that my pesky insecurities raising their annoying heads?
With this issue more than others I have a super hard time differentiating what I want from what the world tells me I should want from what I'm afraid of.
(PS That was me, not woodnymph
)
All the freaky people make the beauty of the world.
GOLD Member
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
I'm 33, female, and have never wanted kids either.
Sure when I was younger I most likely said "When I grow up and have kids...." quite often, just because it's more or less taken for granted that that's what everyone does, but for as long as I can remember I've never had any maternal instincts whatsoever.
In fact (this may invite a severe tongue-lashing from many of you) I find the whole idea of pregnancy quite repulsive. I honestly don't get with the whole 'miracle of life' part of it at all. It grosses me out. To me, the thoughts of something growing inside of makes me physically ill, and is in every respect reminiscent of the film 'Alien' (the first one, where the creature rips through the guys belly) I just don't think I could hack it.
Ok, pregnancy aside, I'm just happy with my life the way it is. I'm not too fond of major responsibilities, I don't have many, and that's they way I like it. I can come and go as I please, go out whenever I want, travel whenever/to wherever I want, and that's a freedom that I'm just not willing to give up right now.
And besides, I'm probably not the fondest person of children you'll ever come across either. You'll never catch me longing to hold someone's newborn baby, or googling into someone's pram. Kids are great fun and all, lots of my friends have kids and I adore each of them, but it's nice to be able to give them back to their folks at the end of the day when you've had enough....
I sound like the wicked witch of the west don't I....?
I'm 33, female, and have never wanted kids either.
Sure when I was younger I most likely said "When I grow up and have kids...." quite often, just because it's more or less taken for granted that that's what everyone does, but for as long as I can remember I've never had any maternal instincts whatsoever.
In fact (this may invite a severe tongue-lashing from many of you) I find the whole idea of pregnancy quite repulsive. I honestly don't get with the whole 'miracle of life' part of it at all. It grosses me out. To me, the thoughts of something growing inside of makes me physically ill, and is in every respect reminiscent of the film 'Alien' (the first one, where the creature rips through the guys belly) I just don't think I could hack it.
Ok, pregnancy aside, I'm just happy with my life the way it is. I'm not too fond of major responsibilities, I don't have many, and that's they way I like it. I can come and go as I please, go out whenever I want, travel whenever/to wherever I want, and that's a freedom that I'm just not willing to give up right now.
And besides, I'm probably not the fondest person of children you'll ever come across either. You'll never catch me longing to hold someone's newborn baby, or googling into someone's pram. Kids are great fun and all, lots of my friends have kids and I adore each of them, but it's nice to be able to give them back to their folks at the end of the day when you've had enough....
I sound like the wicked witch of the west don't I....?
My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
I realy agree with this, very well put.
As to distributing my code across the planet.... to bad harems are out dated....
King Dan anyone?
Quote:
I TOTALLY understand the desire to have a kid. It's just not the decision that I'd make. Like strawberry ice cream is good, but I'd prefer chocolate. To me, the attraction to having children is to teach another human, protect him, raise him to be a good citizen, teach him my values, to feel that you've contributed to society by adding a positive member... many many great reasons for having kids.
I realy agree with this, very well put.
As to distributing my code across the planet.... to bad harems are out dated....
King Dan anyone?
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
Well spoken pounce, that was what I meant... or at least something like that I'd say. Thank you.
Well spoken pounce, that was what I meant... or at least something like that I'd say. Thank you.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
So here's my question for those of you who are vehemently anti-having kids:
Given that every form of contraception has a failure rate (including abstinence...and I've delivered a child who was born in spite of "abstinence"), what would happen if you accidentally got pregnant or got someone pregnant? Let's assume, just for the sake of discussion, that the other half of the "oops" is willing to go along with whatever you want to do.
Leaving aside the obvious reasons why it can't happen to me, if I accidentally got someone pregnant right now, I'd keep the kid, even though I am not ready to be a father just yet. I guess at this point, I'm mature enough and have enough resources at my command that it would be rough, but OK. I might possibly consider adoption. I don't like abortion, although I vehemently support people's right to make that choice, but I would personally only consider it in the event of congenital defects.
Which is the other question: would you abort a child who you knew was going to have a serious congenital disease that would significantly impact their function and their ability to be a normal child?
So here's my question for those of you who are vehemently anti-having kids:
Given that every form of contraception has a failure rate (including abstinence...and I've delivered a child who was born in spite of "abstinence"), what would happen if you accidentally got pregnant or got someone pregnant? Let's assume, just for the sake of discussion, that the other half of the "oops" is willing to go along with whatever you want to do.
Leaving aside the obvious reasons why it can't happen to me, if I accidentally got someone pregnant right now, I'd keep the kid, even though I am not ready to be a father just yet. I guess at this point, I'm mature enough and have enough resources at my command that it would be rough, but OK. I might possibly consider adoption. I don't like abortion, although I vehemently support people's right to make that choice, but I would personally only consider it in the event of congenital defects.
Which is the other question: would you abort a child who you knew was going to have a serious congenital disease that would significantly impact their function and their ability to be a normal child?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
big questions...
i can honestly say i don't know. I think it's probably impossible to imagin how i'd react even though i know people who've been through all 3 optins.
I'm nat against abortion in any way, but i think i'd find it very, very hard to have done myself. I think my maternal instincts would probably get in the way and i'd keep it - i have a good long term relationship and although i'm not rich i guess you have to do the best you can for your children.
there is absolutely no way i'd abort a child because of what i knew it would be life. I would do everything in my power to make that child happy and defend it's right to a good existence.
A very close member of my family had a child who is severley autistic and he was offered a place in a home, but she kept him with her, and i can honestly say he is the single happiest child i've ever met!
big questions...
i can honestly say i don't know. I think it's probably impossible to imagin how i'd react even though i know people who've been through all 3 optins.
I'm nat against abortion in any way, but i think i'd find it very, very hard to have done myself. I think my maternal instincts would probably get in the way and i'd keep it - i have a good long term relationship and although i'm not rich i guess you have to do the best you can for your children.
there is absolutely no way i'd abort a child because of what i knew it would be life. I would do everything in my power to make that child happy and defend it's right to a good existence.
A very close member of my family had a child who is severley autistic and he was offered a place in a home, but she kept him with her, and i can honestly say he is the single happiest child i've ever met!
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
at this point in my life, I would defintely want to keep a child from an accidental pregnancy. If I couldn't put up with the mother in the long run, I would prefer to be the primary caretaker.
Once upon a time that answer would have likely been different, but after some serious life experience coming close to that issue and some aging to mellow my feelings, nowadays I would only reluctantly go along with an abortion if that is what the woman involved truely wanted (I am vehemently pro-choice though, and beleive that it is ultimately the woman who has the last say in that choice, since it is her body).
As for the latter question regarding serious abnormalities and/or birth defects that would significantly affect the child's life (and mine), my answer is a bit harsher, as it is a resounding yes, I would prefer to have the child aborted. You can talk to me till you are blue int he face about what you can gain from having a child with special needs, but when it comes down to it, I don't care. If I can avoid the situation, I have no bones about doing so. I do not in anyway mean to diminish the philosophy of those who would choose otherwise, but for myself, I am quite set on that issue.
at this point in my life, I would defintely want to keep a child from an accidental pregnancy. If I couldn't put up with the mother in the long run, I would prefer to be the primary caretaker.
Once upon a time that answer would have likely been different, but after some serious life experience coming close to that issue and some aging to mellow my feelings, nowadays I would only reluctantly go along with an abortion if that is what the woman involved truely wanted (I am vehemently pro-choice though, and beleive that it is ultimately the woman who has the last say in that choice, since it is her body).
As for the latter question regarding serious abnormalities and/or birth defects that would significantly affect the child's life (and mine), my answer is a bit harsher, as it is a resounding yes, I would prefer to have the child aborted. You can talk to me till you are blue int he face about what you can gain from having a child with special needs, but when it comes down to it, I don't care. If I can avoid the situation, I have no bones about doing so. I do not in anyway mean to diminish the philosophy of those who would choose otherwise, but for myself, I am quite set on that issue.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
As unromantic as it sounds, I think it's important to have a pregame conversation. I have discussed it with every serious partner that I've had and an answer to that question.... oh crap.. the bell to start 4th period just rang...
TO be completed (and edited to make it pretty)
EDITED_BY: NYC (1075479665)
Quote:
So here's my question for those of you who are vehemently anti-having kids: what would happen if you accidentally got pregnant or got someone pregnant.
As unromantic as it sounds, I think it's important to have a pregame conversation. I have discussed it with every serious partner that I've had and an answer to that question.... oh crap.. the bell to start 4th period just rang...
TO be completed (and edited to make it pretty)
EDITED_BY: NYC (1075479665)
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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