Forums > Social Discussion > Txtspk

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
I think et cetera falls on my side of the line Although I like to write it out and wait for someone to say, "What does et cetera mean?"

Human

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
I don't mind abbreviation, as it is communicating something that we all understand but in a faster manner, for example:
WTF, OMG, LOL, BRB, GTG and such, I know what each of these means, and I don't mind it being used, in fact, I use LOL myself, as it seems more natural to use it as a means of communicating "I am laughing" than actually typing out Hahahaha, although I will do that at times too.

What gets my goat is the intentional incorrect spelling of words, the needless replacing of letters with numbers and other characters that bear a slight similarity and the gratuitous usage of the letter Z, all for the sake of what?

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
wow - you'd think we were at a meeting of the spelling police!

I've really got better things to do with my time than spell correctly or write things out in full - especially on an internet forum.

I am absolutely amazed at how many pedants we have here on HoP...

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
Originally Posted By: Adewow - you'd think we were at a meeting of the spelling police!

I've really got better things to do with my time than spell correctly or write things out in full - especially on an internet forum.

I am absolutely amazed at how many pedants we have here on HoP...




Is "HoP" a fully authorised abbreviation? I'm sorry ma'am, you'll have to come with me.

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
Take her away!

Human

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_Son
Is "HoP" a fully authorised abbreviation? I'm sorry ma'am, you'll have to come with me.

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
I'm fine with most short hand stuff as long as I can still understand it. One thing that really bugs me though is 'teh'. Come on it's the same freaking letters man!

Ok I'm done

Let my words, dear friends, be treasures. Weightless golden butterflies that hang before your eyes for seconds, then are gone. But the dust of truth and beauty that their wingbeats leave behind will settle on your soul and make you happy. - Edward Monkton

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
Wow, do people actually intentionally write "teh"? I always just thought it was a typo! That is a little crazy.

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
HoP is only an appropriate reduction when spelt with appropriate capitals H and P and a lower case o. othewise i'll set you on fire.

1 4M 53R10U5 5P3113R. TH15 15 53R10U5 P05T.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_SonI personally use "brb" for the fantastic reason that if I need to leave the PC I'd rather just do it, it helps if I really need to be swift.

I occasionally use abbreviations in an sms message also because otherwise it may have to be spread over two messages, costing me more money needlessly.

ditto, I only use txt speak cos I'm a cheapskate! (I also take out all the spaces after fullstops and commas, which apparently annoys people too ...

on spam robots - "Burn the robot! Melt him down, and then we can make lots and lots of money from his shiiiny juices!"

Owned by Brenn

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
while it seems to be common and accepted for informal use, it is a problem when used in formal settings, like academic papers, court records, and so on. A professor at the beginning of term once told me that if you use shorthand on assignments, you could expect a very low grade.

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

Posted: 19th Jan 2009
Txtspk does annoy me for a couple of reasons.
1) I don't read it a lot so it slows me down.
2) In an open forum I appreciate when people write something aimed at everyone's language level. If you write either in txtspk or only in words with 5 syllables that I need a dictionary to read I'll probably stop reading pretty soon.

I see the difference between well known abbreviations and txtspk is that abbreviations are generally standardised, understood by all and are a small fraction of a sentence. Also there’s appropriate places to use ‘academic’ abbreviations such as b/c or cf, in that.they are used for notes, not published text.

Txtspk is slang and as such is constantly developing with large variation from group to group. Look at everyone’s txtspk across the globe or even a single country and you’ll find there’s very little constant between. Localisations and personalisation’s of txtspk make it quite hard to understand.

And, frankly, which I read text speak I imagine American 13 year olds from bad movies talking in loud and over excited voices. And 'OMG!' becomes a faux-shocked Paris Hilton. And that makes we stop reading!

A couple of related sites:
SMS Bible
Transl8it txt > English translator.

Posted: 20th Jan 2009
Just a quick thought - if we have no slang, local dialects, words only used in certain regions, don't we lose some of the diversity of the planet and it's language?

I understand the need to be quickly understood by others, but that can be done through a conversation: "what do you mean by that? what does that word mean in your culture?" etc...

I don't want to stop using aussie slang at the risk of someone from another culture perhaps not understanding me. I'd hope that there was interaction and we all learnt something...

there doesn't seem to be much room in this discussion for accommodating difference, the discussion seems to be about creating barriers (in my own mind) to communicating with others?



And my other thought about spelling and language is that your approach to it reflects, to a certain degree, your values. If you write people off who don't spell correctly, what does that say about your values? Does it say you only want to deal with educated people who are in a certain percentile of intelligence?

If you don't like leet speak, then does it say you don't value young people's right to self expression?

(I'm asking pointed questions as an attempt to understand why spelling etc, from some hoppers is important)

Posted: 20th Jan 2009
Originally Posted By: Dom
I see the difference between well known abbreviations and txtspk is that abbreviations are generally standardised, understood by all and are a small fraction of a sentence.


Bingo! You really hit the nail on the head with that one, I feel exactly the same way.

Originally Posted By: AdeJust a quick thought - if we have no slang, local dialects, words only used in certain regions, don't we lose some of the diversity of the planet and it's language?

If you don't like leet speak, then does it say you don't value young people's right to self expression?

(I'm asking pointed questions as an attempt to understand why spelling etc, from some hoppers is important)


Interesting questions, good to have some different opinions brought in. I don't think we lose any of the diversity of the planet, because regardless of what's going on in the rest of the world, those dialects and slang will continue to be used outside of worldwide forums, like HoP. In fact, the way I talk in real life is far more casual and slangy than it is on here, because I recognise that this forum is just that, a forum, being a means of communication with people across the world. Due to this, I think conformity to a commonly understood language, being English, is a good thing.

In fact, I felt that if people used local dialects and slang on here, and people had to ask what they meant and have it explained, not only would it slow communication, but I feel that the usage of such slang would cause the individuality and sense of culture to be lost a little. Let me explain, if I heard somebody using slang on here that I hadn't heard, but I learnt what it meant and thought it was cool, I would probably start using it myself outside of it's "Natural" habitat, potentially spreading the terminology around, resulting in it no longer being individual to that culture.

In fact, local dialects, slang and other cultural differences arise primarily through cultural isolation, the primary factor of this being distance, similar to evolution. If we use the internet to truly spread culture, we lose that isolation that incubates individuality in the first place.


On the topic of leet speak, you're making the assumption that it's young people that use it, when in my experience it's been mostly gamers or internet fiends. Thinking about it, most of the people I know who use it are in their mid 20's to 30's and are male. But regardless of that, I don't validate leet speak as a vessel of self-expression, because it's too simple to communicate anything but the simplest of concepts and emotions. I value everybody's right to self-expression, but to express, you need to communicate, and to communicate, you need a medium, and to me anyway, leet speak is an extremely limited medium.

And to me, it's not so much spelling that's important, it's communication, which spelling can help with a great deal, if somebody makes a spelling error, I will only call them out on it if they're preaching something to do with spelling.

Posted: 20th Jan 2009
I have to slow down to read something too heavily laced with too much text speak and usually it tends to be stuff that is just a throwaway comment anyway... if you were explaining a concept that really interests me, I'd hope that the concept would be written in a language more easily understood because the concept is complex.

If you have to grapple with the language and THEN the concept you may well find yourself spending more time than its worth working out whether or not you really wanted to spend all that time reading it.

Garble, garble.

Posted: 20th Jan 2009
Quote:In fact, I felt that if people used local dialects and slang on here, and people had to ask what they meant and have it explained, not only would it slow communication, but I feel that the usage of such slang would cause the individuality and sense of culture to be lost a little. Let me explain, if I heard somebody using slang on here that I hadn't heard, but I learnt what it meant and thought it was cool, I would probably start using it myself outside of it's "Natural" habitat, potentially spreading the terminology around, resulting in it no longer being individual to that culture.

I actually quite enjoy "local" slang and if i don't know what it means, I'll Google it.

Ever since Rouge Dragon used the word sook, I've been dumping it on Australians in IRL conversations.
I now know what a hoon is and since newgabe used the word moggie, I've been using it to refer to those things sleeping over there on the couch.

It makes me feel all international

I can't say I've ever seen a post written in leetspeak, anywhere, and I don't feel I'm missing out but I agree it's mostly young people using txtspeak. I figure it's a SMS or chatroom thing. and maybe if I spent more time in chatrooms I'd see more of it, but I don't so I see it as laziness more than anything else.

I've no objection to the standard Internet abbreviations as they've become accepted memes in forums ( eg YMMV, TL/DR, IANAL ) but shorthand for the sake of laziness ( eg b4, sum1 ) suggest, to me at least, that the poster is only interested in making a minimum effort to be understood.

My spelling could be better, which is why I use an online spellchecker ( Google toolbar ) with the bonus that I don't have to go and correct typos when I know I've made them and I can just spew on ad nauseum, safe and secure in the knowledge that I'll catch it later.

Another forum that I use has a built in spellchecker. Does HoP want to consider adding one of those to the full reply screen ?

Posted: 20th Jan 2009
I agree with what NathanielEverist so I won't repeat.

I'm not making a big issue of spelling. With 2 dyslexic brothers I used to reading bad spelling and I know it's not always possible to spell check everything in a quick forum post. But words like sum1, ur and b4 aren't misspelling.

Posted: 20th Jan 2009
Stout: We are not taking about local slang, we are talking about internet slang, there is a huge difference.

Human

Posted: 21st Jan 2009
Originally Posted By: doppelGangerStout: We are not taking about local slang, we are talking about internet slang, there is a huge difference.

Posted: 21st Jan 2009
I would enlighten you but I don't know what your confused about.

Human

Posted: 21st Jan 2009
well when local slang is used on the internet it can add to confusion, so in a sense we are talking about local slang as one aspect of the diversity of language.

if i was to start using australian local slang written in 1337 5p34k eg : "1 7h1nk u h4v3 a f3w r00s l0053 1n t3h t0p p4dd02k."

not only do the words require deciphering, but also the meaning of the sentence.

if i was to write in plain English "i think you have a few roos loose in the top paddock" although the meaning is lost on you, at least you can be sure about what the sentence says, so as to enable you to ask/search for its meaning. (check urban dictionary if you dont know)

i would say local slang is definitely relevant to the conversation as it can be as confusing as txt or 1337 speak and even more so when they are combined.

how i post on HoP isnt really an accurate reflection of how i talk in real life. i use more profanities

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

Posted: 21st Jan 2009
Originally Posted By: Mr Majestikwell when local slang is used on the internet it can add to confusion, so in a sense we are talking about local slang as one aspect of the diversity of language.

if i was to start using australian local slang written in 1337 5p34k eg : "1 7h1nk u h4v3 a f3w r00s l0053 1n t3h t0p p4dd02k."

not only do the words require deciphering, but also the meaning of the sentence.

if i was to write in plain English "i think you have a few roos loose in the top paddock" although the meaning is lost on you, at least you can be sure about what the sentence says, so as to enable you to ask/search for its meaning. (check urban dictionary if you dont know)

i would say local slang is definitely relevant to the conversation as it can be as confusing as txt or 1337 speak and even more so when they are combined.

how i post on HoP isnt really an accurate reflection of how i talk in real life. i use more profanities

Not really... Local dialect is fine I think, it's when someone says local text in leetspeak that I disagree with. I love different terms in languages, it's when their mutilated to 3-4 letters and substituted with numbers that really bothers me.

Human

Posted: 21st Jan 2009
Originally Posted By: doppelGangerI would enlighten you but I don't know what your confused about.

Originally Posted By: Collins Dictionary N
informal language not used in formal speech or writing and often restricted to a particular social group or profession

So what makes the language of one social group less valid than that of another? By your logic slang derived from face to face conversation is more legitimate than that derived from internet conversations.
The language of the rave and superclub generations has now been absorbed into popular culture. Txtspk is nearly there too.

Some of the examples given in this topic have been deliberately made absurd to make a point. They would only be used as jokes between people who understand their meaning.

There is also an argument that such new language is creating new neurone pathways in the brain. This is, of course, true of any new knowledge.

Being able to decode any recent terms increases a persons general understanding of semantics and lauguage structure. This (theoretically) prepares you to be able to decode any future terms.

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. To flippantly dismiss any cultural subgroup as 'less relevant' than another is ridiculous. It comes across as fear of change. Yes some of their actions may be pointless or absurd but, others may prove to be useful, entertaining or valid in some other way.
In the specific case of Net/Txtspk some terms are already widely accepted by the wider comunity i.e. LOL, ROFL, BRB, OMG.

I guess my point is that I think it is ridiculous to dismiss txtspk without properly understanding it and the foundations that underpin it.
Its also a bizarre distinction you are making between web communities and geographical ones. I think you are need to look below the surface before being so dismissive.

PS - Its "you're" ('you are'). If you want to complain about the way that some people use reductions in text you should at least make sure that you get the standard ones right

Posted: 22nd Jan 2009
Um, the above is your opinion, I am not looking for someone else to validate how I feel, and I don't like it. Good luck trying to convince me as I really don't care. Also, I know how to use you're and your, my apologies if I don't catch it one out of every hundred times I type, and I hardly think that falls into leetspeak or txtspeak, it's a spelling error.

Human

Posted: 22nd Jan 2009
I had a really good responce to this but i forgot, I will bee are bee.

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

Posted: 22nd Jan 2009
doppleganger if you want a medium to express your opinions without discussion, then get a blog. You may have noticed the name of this forum is "social discussion"

The less people know the more they believe

Posted: 22nd Jan 2009
Originally Posted By: doppelGangerUm, the above is your opinion, I am not looking for someone else to validate how I feel, and I don't like it. Good luck trying to convince me as I really don't care. Also, I know how to use you're and your, my apologies if I don't catch it one out of every hundred times I type, and I hardly think that falls into leetspeak or txtspeak, it's a spelling error.
Most of my post was factual. If you want sources I will find them for you. Most of it is simple logic though.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I was simply entering into the discussion that you started. In all honesty I am not really interested in whether you change your mind or not.

Originally Posted By: Lord ByronOpinions are made to be changed - or how is truth to be got at?

Posted: 22nd Jan 2009
Originally Posted By: Seye
So what makes the language of one social group less valid than that of another? By your logic slang derived from face to face conversation is more legitimate than that derived from internet conversations.
The language of the rave and superclub generations has now been absorbed into popular culture. Txtspk is nearly there too.

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. To flippantly dismiss any cultural subgroup as 'less relevant' than another is ridiculous. It comes across as fear of change. Yes some of their actions may be pointless or absurd but, others may prove to be useful, entertaining or valid in some other way.

I guess my point is that I think it is ridiculous to dismiss txtspk without properly understanding it and the foundations that underpin it.
Its also a bizarre distinction you are making between web communities and geographical ones. I think you are need to look below the surface before being so dismissive.



Please show me your sources for the above comments. I think what YOU don't understand is that I DO make a distinction, and I don't like it. Your raving about it is YOUR opinion, and that's fine, I have MY opinion, why do you feel the need to change my mind on the subject? Do you have all the answers? I don't like it, stop trying to push your ideas on me.

You were speaking directly to me, not the forum, you had my name quoted, don't tell me you were "just throwing it out there."

And yes I am SO scared of change! [/sarcasm]

Human

Posted: 22nd Jan 2009
Originally Posted By: doppelGangerOriginally Posted By: Seye
So what makes the language of one social group less valid than that of another? By your logic slang derived from face to face conversation is more legitimate than that derived from internet conversations.
The language of the rave and superclub generations has now been absorbed into popular culture. Txtspk is nearly there too.

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. To flippantly dismiss any cultural subgroup as 'less relevant' than another is ridiculous. It comes across as fear of change. Yes some of their actions may be pointless or absurd but, others may prove to be useful, entertaining or valid in some other way.

I guess my point is that I think it is ridiculous to dismiss txtspk without properly understanding it and the foundations that underpin it.
Its also a bizarre distinction you are making between web communities and geographical ones. I think you are need to look below the surface before being so dismissive.



Please show me your sources for the above comments. I think what YOU don't understand is that I DO make a distinction, and I don't like it. Your raving about it is YOUR opinion, and that's fine, I have MY opinion, why do you feel the need to change my mind on the subject? Do you have all the answers? I don't like it, stop trying to push your ideas on me.

And yes I am SO scared of change! [/sarcasm]
This is obviously pointless. I have not tried to push any idea or opinion onto you.

The section you quoted contains questions that you have not answered, logical conclusions from observations and concepts that are central to the study of culture.

The only opinion that I have put forward is that you should try to be more open minded. Given your replies I will stick by that.

I think for the benefit of this topic I will leave this subject here.

Posted: 22nd Jan 2009
I said I am open minded to culture and local things, if you are not trying to push an opinion that's fine, it's just the impression I got. I hate leetspeak and txtspk, and I'll leave it at that.

Human