Forums > Technical Discussion > Firesword Handguard
Login/Join to ParticipateStargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
yupp, one: gloves
A handguard is not going to take you far (speaking of protection against the flame and heat). One bent out of a sheet of aluminum or other metals will provide substantial protection against the heat, but heat has the tendency to move up and around obstacles. By the time you hold your sword upside down, you will find that a guard is good to protect you from blows of other swords, but not as good from heat and flames.... ouch!!! blisters last you long time.
Good luck
yupp, one: gloves
A handguard is not going to take you far (speaking of protection against the flame and heat). One bent out of a sheet of aluminum or other metals will provide substantial protection against the heat, but heat has the tendency to move up and around obstacles. By the time you hold your sword upside down, you will find that a guard is good to protect you from blows of other swords, but not as good from heat and flames.... ouch!!! blisters last you long time.Good luck
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
GOLD Member
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posted:
A lot of people i know have used old hard disk platters. They seem to work quite well and they look really great too.
A lot of people i know have used old hard disk platters. They seem to work quite well and they look really great too.
I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
get ya
take a look:
Non-Https Image Link
More easy: take a sheet of metal 10x2x0.5cm, round the edges, drill and cut the shape of the blade (or wherever the handguard is situated) in the centre, slip it over the blade/ handle and weld together.
Makes sense?
get ya take a look:
Non-Https Image Link
More easy: take a sheet of metal 10x2x0.5cm, round the edges, drill and cut the shape of the blade (or wherever the handguard is situated) in the centre, slip it over the blade/ handle and weld together.
Makes sense?
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
oh, then use steel (on steel). It will bring the centrepoint of weight (dough, english is my 2nd lingo) of weight back towards your handle (and by that greatly improve the handling efforts when the sword is lit) - that or you use thicker aluminum. Personally I used a steel handguard, works more than fine.
oh, then use steel (on steel). It will bring the centrepoint of weight (dough, english is my 2nd lingo) of weight back towards your handle (and by that greatly improve the handling efforts when the sword is lit) - that or you use thicker aluminum. Personally I used a steel handguard, works more than fine.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
3mm sounds kind-a thinnish to me, whereas on the other hand 10 by 10 rather bulky... I hope no rough or sharp edges?
Mine was steel, welded to steel. A few others have been chromed steel (like door handles). You will have to weld it, alternatively using at least 2 screws (or the handguard will start rattling, maybe already after the few first blows).
So IMO it's welding all the way. Certainly not a tough job for someone who knows what he's doing.
3mm sounds kind-a thinnish to me, whereas on the other hand 10 by 10 rather bulky... I hope no rough or sharp edges?
Mine was steel, welded to steel. A few others have been chromed steel (like door handles). You will have to weld it, alternatively using at least 2 screws (or the handguard will start rattling, maybe already after the few first blows).
So IMO it's welding all the way. Certainly not a tough job for someone who knows what he's doing.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
hmm, flanges are round, or at least have a round hole in the centre - am I right?
Non-Https Image Link
To me, a firesword is predominantly a sword, that has wick attached to it... like this:
Non-Https Image Link
On this one the blade was put through and then the guard got forged, so it's not rattling around. It's a lot of effort, therefore I don't recommend it, really. Welding should be cheap, especially since you only need two or three spots to connect the guard to the blade. Shame on whoever charges you a small fortune for that.
But you can certainly use whatever and have it made to your personal preference - it's a free universe and nobody holds the ultimate truth. At least not to my present knowledge.
Good luck with your project. I will supply a picture of my present (lightweight) firesword as soon as I can.
Namaste
hmm, flanges are round, or at least have a round hole in the centre - am I right?
Non-Https Image Link
To me, a firesword is predominantly a sword, that has wick attached to it... like this:
Non-Https Image Link
On this one the blade was put through and then the guard got forged, so it's not rattling around. It's a lot of effort, therefore I don't recommend it, really. Welding should be cheap, especially since you only need two or three spots to connect the guard to the blade. Shame on whoever charges you a small fortune for that.
But you can certainly use whatever and have it made to your personal preference - it's a free universe and nobody holds the ultimate truth. At least not to my present knowledge.
Good luck with your project. I will supply a picture of my present (lightweight) firesword as soon as I can.
Namaste
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
I wouldn't advise bolting with (fire)swords, IF you want to make a quality sword
I wouldn't advise bolting with (fire)swords, IF you want to make a quality sword
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
If you weld combat style swords you can increase your chance of it going ping.
I would recommend training with each other lots to reduce the chance of mangling your hands. A mate just used a milo tin lid as his guard. :lol
He has used a bokken covered in shim to protect the wood and i guess its not about hard contact combat, its about style. With posing.
If you weld combat style swords you can increase your chance of it going ping.
I would recommend training with each other lots to reduce the chance of mangling your hands. A mate just used a milo tin lid as his guard.
:lolHe has used a bokken covered in shim to protect the wood and i guess its not about hard contact combat, its about style. With posing.
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Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
Indeed. You need something that looks decent close up as well as at a distance as well as being functional.
Written by: FireTom
I wouldn't advise bolting with (fire)swords, IF you want to make a quality sword
Indeed. You need something that looks decent close up as well as at a distance as well as being functional.
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Ducktape? Possible, but... Dunno what's wrong with welding, it's really only two points to weld (each side of the handguard touching the blade). Welding is just significantly better than riveting or bolting, or screwing - it's a durable connection between the two pieces...
Alternatives may serve you for the time being, just don't come back and complain that nobody told you....
Written by: Rellizate
What about riviting, then wraping the grip over the top of the rivet heads?
Ducktape?
Possible, but... Dunno what's wrong with welding, it's really only two points to weld (each side of the handguard touching the blade). Welding is just significantly better than riveting or bolting, or screwing - it's a durable connection between the two pieces...Alternatives may serve you for the time being, just don't come back and complain that nobody told you....
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
as you're trying to weld aluminium to steel, which - of course - doesn't work any which way around. BUt how about using the same material on both, blade and guard?
as you're trying to weld aluminium to steel, which - of course - doesn't work any which way around. BUt how about using the same material on both, blade and guard? the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
Welding quillions to the blade has caused many swords to break. Brazing/soldering them into place may be more effective. Soldering/brazing only melts the added metal, not the work piece.
If its a sword being used to hit other weapons repeatedly its different I am sure to a weapon that gets used as an occasional fireprop where you arent clashing with any degree of force. Welding may be fine for what is essentially a display peice, not a combat peice.
Welding quillions to the blade has caused many swords to break. Brazing/soldering them into place may be more effective. Soldering/brazing only melts the added metal, not the work piece.
If its a sword being used to hit other weapons repeatedly its different I am sure to a weapon that gets used as an occasional fireprop where you arent clashing with any degree of force. Welding may be fine for what is essentially a display peice, not a combat peice.
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Hmm - there now we have a completely different understanding of what resembles a "sword" I connect the expression "sword" to something that has a "blade", whereas you might refer to something I would call a "fire-baton" (round and all the way covered with wick, in such a way that it will easily break when hitting another object, namely another "baton" or "sword").
Sorry for the confusion, which is subject and nature of verbal online description.
If you're looking for to make a "fire-baton", which is not designed to have contact with another hard object, you may proceed as you wish, as long as the wick doesn't come loose and at some stage flies off towards the audience or yourself.
But I see that you're referring to "steel tubing" (as in "pipe"?) - which would require the handguard be dun from steel only, not ...-tubing.
Gnor, we seem to have a different understanding of "welding" and how it's done. In my cases, blade and handle are one piece, the handguards either forged to the blade (as in above example) or welded (as in the example I will provide a.s.a. I have reasonable time to take pictures AND upload them).
Whilst welding and soldering are closely related to each other, I recommend welding as being the most suitable of all methods to join two metals together, withstanding significant blows of another (hard) object, because virtually the two pieces become one (whereas they are still having a weak point).
Please, proceed with what you intend to do and let us know the outcome of it. By no means I claim to have found the one-and-only solution to the problem, just am referring to my metal workers suggestions, procedures and personal experiences.
Fire-Safety should be above all and all I am trying to advocate is coming with the best of intentions, so I'm trying to talk about solutions to, not the obstacles itself
Hmm - there now we have a completely different understanding of what resembles a "sword"
I connect the expression "sword" to something that has a "blade", whereas you might refer to something I would call a "fire-baton" (round and all the way covered with wick, in such a way that it will easily break when hitting another object, namely another "baton" or "sword").Sorry for the confusion, which is subject and nature of verbal online description.
If you're looking for to make a "fire-baton", which is not designed to have contact with another hard object, you may proceed as you wish, as long as the wick doesn't come loose and at some stage flies off towards the audience or yourself.
But I see that you're referring to "steel tubing" (as in "pipe"?) - which would require the handguard be dun from steel only, not ...-tubing.
Gnor, we seem to have a different understanding of "welding" and how it's done. In my cases, blade and handle are one piece, the handguards either forged to the blade (as in above example) or welded (as in the example I will provide a.s.a. I have reasonable time to take pictures AND upload them).
Whilst welding and soldering are closely related to each other, I recommend welding as being the most suitable of all methods to join two metals together, withstanding significant blows of another (hard) object, because virtually the two pieces become one (whereas they are still having a weak point).
Please, proceed with what you intend to do and let us know the outcome of it. By no means I claim to have found the one-and-only solution to the problem, just am referring to my metal workers suggestions, procedures and personal experiences.
Fire-Safety should be above all and all I am trying to advocate is coming with the best of intentions, so
I'm trying to talk about solutions to, not the obstacles itself the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
We make combat weapons for frequent practice with. So they get alot of hits and being hit. In the past weopans that have been welded inevitably snap much sooner than other methods of seating the quillions. The blades are forged or laser cut to shape and the quillions steel or bronze. The bronze I guess cant be welded (no idea there). Our quillions are soldered/ brazed or seated using the forge. Every few years someone tries to weld the quillions on and again prove to us that its not the best idea for what we use them for.
The fire weapons I have, are simulated fighting swords modified to be fire swords, not scratch built to be fire weapons.
Sword is the far right flame and the glaive second from right.
EDITED_BY: Gnor (1195379782)
We make combat weapons for frequent practice with. So they get alot of hits and being hit. In the past weopans that have been welded inevitably snap much sooner than other methods of seating the quillions. The blades are forged or laser cut to shape and the quillions steel or bronze. The bronze I guess cant be welded (no idea there). Our quillions are soldered/ brazed or seated using the forge. Every few years someone tries to weld the quillions on and again prove to us that its not the best idea for what we use them for.
The fire weapons I have, are simulated fighting swords modified to be fire swords, not scratch built to be fire weapons.
Sword is the far right flame and the glaive second from right.
EDITED_BY: Gnor (1195379782)
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Is it Fair to all concerned?
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Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
Glaive, on a probably 4 ft haft
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Sabre
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Non-Https Image Link
Glaive, on a probably 4 ft haft
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Sabre
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Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
Much easier to make. As long as you are happy to have a firesword that looks like a sword on fire from a small distance and not super sword pretty up close what the hell does it matter. Any sword I use will be looked at as a sword first, then a flamey thing, so the look and construction is important.
I thikn I said before about covering a bokken with kevlar after first covering the bokken to stop burning. I sugested schim, will report back when I know how its gone. Shim is available at our local craft shops and $6 will cover most bokkens. Bokkens have a nice basic shape to start with. Some of the local guys here have used "pipe swords" and to me thats what they look like. At least bokkens have a nicer shape and weighting and are relatively cheap
We also simply used a milo tin lid that I had.
EDITED_BY: Gnor (1195391734)
Much easier to make. As long as you are happy to have a firesword that looks like a sword on fire from a small distance and not super sword pretty up close what the hell does it matter. Any sword I use will be looked at as a sword first, then a flamey thing, so the look and construction is important.
I thikn I said before about covering a bokken with kevlar after first covering the bokken to stop burning. I sugested schim, will report back when I know how its gone. Shim is available at our local craft shops and $6 will cover most bokkens. Bokkens have a nice basic shape to start with. Some of the local guys here have used "pipe swords" and to me thats what they look like. At least bokkens have a nicer shape and weighting and are relatively cheap
We also simply used a milo tin lid that I had.
EDITED_BY: Gnor (1195391734)
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Lovely looking swords, Gnor. *mumbles "laser cut blades" and wiggles eyebrows*
I will keep you posted about the performance of my (welded) swords and am happy of any input and experience about this.
You seem to go into full battle mode with your swords, hey?
Lovely looking swords, Gnor. *mumbles "laser cut blades" and wiggles eyebrows*
I will keep you posted about the performance of my (welded) swords and am happy of any input and experience about this.
You seem to go into full battle mode with your swords, hey?
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
I havent used the fire weapons much. Its kinda a fun thing that I need to get one of my normal combatants on side to do. But may take them to spinning and play, as opposed to taking them to whomping to play. I also need to design a costume to wear that is appropriate and non burny. Im used to poi not staff so the flame works different to what I am used to.
We get a selection of spring steel blades laser cut. We used to forge most blades but the time factor is now a problem.
Its all about what you want out of the blade you are designing. As we come from swords first and any sword is a reflection on the bladesmith, for our use it has to be " authentic" up close as well. If you want a display peice that looks swordlike and you have no issues with it looking like historical ( duh . its on fire gnor;) ) the right look from a distance is more than enough. If your sword isnt going into regular combat welding might not be the same issue.
Mumbling and wiggling?.....
I havent used the fire weapons much. Its kinda a fun thing that I need to get one of my normal combatants on side to do. But may take them to spinning and play, as opposed to taking them to whomping to play. I also need to design a costume to wear that is appropriate and non burny. Im used to poi not staff so the flame works different to what I am used to.
We get a selection of spring steel blades laser cut. We used to forge most blades but the time factor is now a problem.
Its all about what you want out of the blade you are designing. As we come from swords first and any sword is a reflection on the bladesmith, for our use it has to be " authentic" up close as well. If you want a display peice that looks swordlike and you have no issues with it looking like historical ( duh . its on fire gnor;) ) the right look from a distance is more than enough. If your sword isnt going into regular combat welding might not be the same issue.
Mumbling and wiggling?.....
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
But good point:
But good point:Written by: Gnor
Its all about what you want out of the blade you are designing.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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