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simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
i've been having some loose and disconnected thoughts about spinning.

it started when i was chatting to meg about strange feelings we can have when we see patterns that confuse us
(buzzword(s): cognitive dissonance)

and it occurred to me that what you do immediately before and after a "move" critically affects how it is seen by the audience.

and um...

ok I just had this PM conversation with meg

 Written by:

From: simian
09/07/07 03:21 PM

context is what its all about now baby
"WOW what was that!?"
"what it was is unimportant. What matters is the context in which it was placed."

"hmm, that didn't look so hot"
"it will do, i just need to find the right context"

The heckle of 2008:
"Do it CONTEXTUALLY!"

Yeah baby. Context. You know you love it.



 Written by:

From: mcp
10/07/07 08:37 AM

are you on drugs?

Clearly the best heckle in this new regime will be: Do in a the context of a female tennis player!



 Written by:

From: simian
10/07/07 09:56 AM

i'm high on CONTEXT sweetcheeks

Phi phenomenons and chuu chuus got me thinking about it -

the individual movements are kinda simple and almost trivial, and not enormously effective. But the context in which they're placed, what goes before and after it, is what gives them their greater significance (makes them look cooler)

But temporal context is just one part of it.

enviromental context:-
obvious example: glowtoys in bright sunlight vs. glowtoys in the dark

Now imagine different visual effects from different kinds of spinning against fast moving horizontal\vertical backgrounds (motorway/waterfall)

And Cultural context:
Ironic spinning
Spinning where knowledge of the spinners personality is important
spinning as part of a story

Musical context:
what kind of music you're playing - well duh...

ETCETERA!

so you can play with the contexts in different ways, using them to reinforce an impression \ create a counterpoint or even trigger phi phenomenon.

have i dun gon mad?



 Written by:

From: mcp
10/07/07 11:21 AM

you're talking about performance techniques simian, who would have ever thought it?

so yeah, i think you dun gon mad!



 Written by:

From: simian
10/07/07 11:32 AM

hmmm

only in the sense that poi is performance

which isn't even necessarily true, because it depends on the context



 Written by:

From: mcp
10/07/07 11:37 AM

if you're spinning and nobody is watching you, in the middle of a forest and a tree falls, does it matter what the context is?

Does context only matter when there is somebody to understand the context, other than you?

If nobody see's you spin, did you even really do it?



so um yeeeeeeeah... what do you think?

it's kind of trivial. But i haven't thought about poi that way before - when thinking in a techie mindset.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
cole designs brochures to make dull informations look interesting, through the use of graphics and other 'background / context' stuff, for a living. He is clearly being contrary.

I think with epicyclic spinning, which is my mind reads: "Waving your arms about in different patterns" the patterns themselves are about as interesting as what comes down your nose after a long night of spinning fire, and it's the way you change epicyclic patterns that makes it interesting. Hence, quid pro quo, [sic], soa cah toa, he actually agree's with you about one form of context, but not another. Which is why we need different names. I call shenanigans.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
by the way -

 Written by: mcp



Simian, you have to define this context thing. It means TOOO much! First I thought you were talking about the context of your spin, then it could be the context of the move and how it relates to the movements before and after... and now you've added the context of one prop to the other... to create illusion.



Ah so in essense I agree with Tom, unfortunately. I think we need different names for each form of 'context'. But that could be cos I am a systematical naming by-atch.





so lets get this straight...



you want me to redefine "context"

to just mean one of a number of different types of context that you name

and you then say that we need names for the different types of context.

confused2

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
Yes, i want you to redefine context depending on the context it's used in. Otherwise it's confusing, since I could be carrying over an old context from a previous use of the word context and applying it to a new or novel use of the word context.

also, I made a post above your's you probably haven't read.

also, Ed is lame. So lame he's not even good enough to be called gay.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
i think what meg is saying is that the word 'context' is totally useless when applied to spinning until someone puts the word itself into a more specific context.



the problem is, when you do that, you find that its probably describing something that already has a fairly context-specific and adequately descriptive name.



i second shenanigans.



cole. x



edit: damn you meg and your fingers of speedy typing - you already pointed out the irony of the 'put contect in context' argumaent thus rendering my posty null and void.



however, taking into account the context of meg in a poi forum makes my posts all the more valid and completely removes the un-void-ity of meg's posts umm
EDITED_BY: coleman (1184079862)

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
"Spintext" wink

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
Im only posting here 'cos all the cool kids are.

juggle

simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
 Written by: meg

I made a post above your's you probably haven't read.

nah, i read it. i quickly got used to looking back to deal with overlaps in this thread biggrin
i'm a serial-replier when i start a thread. i usually kill em pretty fast by arguing with anyone who turns up, like an over-enthusiastic watch-dog scaring off visitors.

anyway, didn't i name a load of different types of context in the first post?

but why compartmentalise "Context" into a rational system where you go
RIGHT CHILDREN THERE ARE FOURTEEN DIFFERENT TYPES OF CONTEXT AND THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE
when all thats going to do is force people down those tramlines? Well, maybe the tram stops somewhere nice, but i'd much rather put everyone on little boats so they could float where they want.
er.

Yeah, so creating cognitive dissonance with temporal and spatial context of two props is cool. You seem disappointed this thread doesn't mean that. But you could make a new one about that, and give it a cool name and everything, if you like smile

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
and AAARGGH meg and cole.

"context" means context godammit

it doesn't get some magical new meaning when you apply it to poi any more than "up" or "down" does.

yes it can apply to an awful awful lot. But it's meant to.

i don't understand the reason for the shenanigan calls

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
simian: yeah but even in boats, rivers lead to the sea and the sea is so big they would all die of drowning, thirst or starvation, unless it was like that book about a guy inna boat with a big fat bengal tiger. That was a good book. Plus in tramlines you have control over where you're going, where's with little boats the wind could carry you away from all the cool stuff, and you'd miss it all.

Mostly I have been taking the piss in this thread, But now it seems I'm right, and in the context of that, I feel uncomfortable.

See, what you call: "creating cognitive dissonance with temporal and spatial context of two props" I just call illusions. And using them to mindfuck the audience. Win.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: simian


Yeah, so creating cognitive dissonance with temporal and spatial context of two props is cool. You seem disappointed this thread doesn't mean that. But you could make a new one about that, and give it a cool name and everything, if you like smile



its not just cool - its the only context that matters when you are not interested in perfomance aesthetics.

i think you could add the temporal and spatial context of two props with a body but that's as far as i'll push it.

cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
 Written by: mcp

I just call illusions. And using them to mindfuck the audience. Win.



Your definition is a description of end result.
my definition is explanatory.
Win. tongue

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: simian


it doesn't get some magical new meaning when you apply it to poi any more than "up" or "down" does.

yes it can apply to an awful awful lot. But it's meant to.




Up and down could refer to the up and down of the poi, down is clearly the wick end, and up is the end near your hand. "look down the poi" etc. Not a magical new meaning, but an application of a meaning to poi. In this context, clearly useless, but maybe if you poied in zero gee, it would be more pertinent.

Yes, it can apply to an awful lot, which makes it practically useless for discussion. Which is why we don't have a thread entitled "Everything" in social discussion. Madness would result. Which would be hilarious, but that's not the point.
So yeah

"Everything, what about that?"
"Well actually I want to talk about this one subsection I want to call... "
"No, we have to discuss everything, and you can't go naming other things... that defeats the point..."

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
and Mr Cole! spank

that's why i didn't want to start compartmentalising.

Those two contexts are the only ones are they? Temporal and spatial, thats all there is. Yup, just two types of context there, not an infinitie number of them pretending to be two at all...

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: simian


 Written by: mcp

I just call illusions. And using them to mindfuck the audience. Win.



Your definition is a description of end result.
my definition is explanatory.
Win. tongue



I don't think so. I could still ask you how to do them / one of them, what that means. Hence non explanatory. An explanatory name would be: The mysterious action at a distance illusion. Or it's variation: The invisible string illusion. Etc.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: simian


and Mr Cole! spank

that's why i didn't want to start compartmentalising.

Those two contexts are the only ones are they? Temporal and spatial, thats all there is. Yup, just two types of context there, not an infinitie number of them pretending to be two at all...



oh of course, an infinite number of ways to describe the context of the move is far better than a finite number.

if it were finite we might be able to communicate it effectively and where the hell is the fun in that?

wink

cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
oh miss meghan

i'll ignore the meaningless nitpicking of simile.

OK and stating that a term is "too wide to be useful". Useful in what sense? I'm just trying to think more about the context of my spinning, In every sense. I find it useful so nerr.

And actually i said you should name other contexts. So nerr again. What i object to is the creation of some faux-formal family of contexts that would confuse meanings with their descriptions.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: simian


Those two contexts are the only ones are they? Temporal and spatial, thats all there is. Yup, just two types of context there, not an infinitie number of them pretending to be two at all...



So we can't name different context's because that means we haven't named all the others and will henceforth forget about them because they don't have names?

How do you live?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
 Written by: coleman

if it were finite we might be able to communicate it effectively and where the hell is the fun in that?



erm mr cole, the infinite variety of the english language seems to be doing us kind of ok. Its not really infinite of course. But it's big.

should i start only talking using 10 words so you understand me better?
confused

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
offtopic ubbcrying

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: simian


And actually i said you should name other contexts. So nerr again. What i object to is the creation of some faux-formal family of contexts that would confuse meanings with their descriptions.



you did?

Also, to the third sentence: That's what language does silly. It's all about the symbols.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
meh

i've come to the conclusion cole and meg just need to learn to read.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: simian


 Written by: coleman

if it were finite we might be able to communicate it effectively and where the hell is the fun in that?



erm mr cole, the infinite variety of the english language seems to be doing us kind of ok. Its not really infinite of course. But it's big.

should i start only talking using 10 words so you understand me better?
confused



But you seem to be arguing we should all use just one big word, called perhaps "word", we're not even allowed ten in your world. Or perhaps we all communicate telepathically...

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
 Written by: mcp

But you seem to be arguing we should all use just one big word


erm. No i'm not. Can you read this thread again please meg. I'm just about to myself to see if i've been saying something completely different to what i thought i was.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
what I see you saying is: We shouldn't split up the idea of context into various subcomponents, in either language or thought, because that would mean us perhaps missing out on the infinite variety or different uses meanings and applications this idea has, while simultaneously, narrowing everybody's explorations of the idea to the areas bounded by these new subcomponents.

Whereas I'm saying: Why the [censored] not? I know it doesn't mean that the entirety of the idea has been named, and it gives me a way to talk about those 'subcomponents' that are the same as other ideas we have already explored, as well as many other benefits.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
 Written by: coleman


[if you put the word context into a more specific context] you find that its probably describing something that already has a fairly context-specific and adequately descriptive name.



Thats my main disagreement with trying to name lots of different types of context. But if you have something you want to talk about then please go ahead and name it.

i wanted to talk about context, and NAMED a few different types (that could nonetheless be split into further types or merged into one ubercontext) and maybe the word is so wide that it could include far more than i was thinking of. If so, then why not tell me about all these other types of context. Or if some interest you far more than others we can talk about those.
Anything but a stupid huge rambling terminology debate please frown

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
So who's winning?

I've got 5:1 on Simian...

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
its early days yet. Noone's even mentioned the nazis.

whoops.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
Okay:

Sequence Context: (Sequencing) How a move looks in what order in a sequence it's in
Movement Context: making a move look better depending on the body movement associated.
Context of the other prop: Including all moves, illusions etc...
Timing Context: included in the above: what timing are you using?
Context of you being on your own: Who gives a [censored].
Context of fire on the meadows in edinburgh late one monday night: Including all other specific temporal and spatial contexts.
Toy Context: Big wicks vs small wicks vs cardboard box... vs glowtoys, vs UV, vs socks, vs tails etc...
Character Context: comedian, ironic, pretending to be someone else for comic effect of 'pretending' or because they are funnier than you...
Musical Context: does it fit with the music
Costume Context: does it fit with your costume / character...
Contrasting context: fast vs slow... large vs small...
Background context: does it fit with the background?
Critical Context: Are you making a poin about the use of fossil fuels?
Directional Context: does it look better facing north?
Gravitational Context: Is it better in Zero Gee?
Spatial Context: Is it only possible in four spatial dimensions?
HOP Context: Are they a better spinner because you know them from hop?
Drug Context: Is it a cool move because you saw it while on mushrooms and it looked really trippy. In fact doing a sequence of those moves can make a person on acid get really happy.
Performance Context: Is it a shitty easy ass gay move, but you do it cos it impressed non-spinners?
Eye Context: Does it confuse the eyes using a defect of our motion following eye movements?

and sooooooo on.

I so don't know what the word context means anymore...

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
Hooray! hug



i'll be back in this thread tomorrow. i have to go to spittalfields and get horribly drunk now.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


RicheeBRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic


Posted:
(deleted for crap)

POI THEO(R)IST


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