Forums > Social Discussion > Stereotypes & Community Theory
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ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
Due to my somewhat excessive interest in self analysis over the past few years, Ive got a few ideas floating around n my head i would appreciate feedback on.
Ive probably written several thousand words on this in the past in my journal -but lifes good right now - and ive changed so much in the past 2 yrs im not sure many of my old writings have much relevance anymore.
This is particularly to do with stereotypes, and the tendency to subconciously adapt the stereotypical characteristics that a particular group entails.
now ill probably insult many during this post. If you have anything intelligent to say, id appreciate a comment. If you wish to incoherently abuse me, feel free via PM, but i wont really care,
Now - of key minority/subculture scenes ive dabbled in the past 5 years of my life, they include christian, engineer, gay, goth, hippy, and raver. there may be a few more which elude me at this point but these are the major ones.
in each of these 'community groups' as i will call them, I have found a significant urge to adopt, and in some cases envloped the stereotype of that particular community. is this a natural human tendancy? the urge to adapt to be accepted?
Id rather keep my own experiences brief as i am more interested in others to get these ideas more sorted in my head - but need to explain some idea where im coming from .
In order of experience:
Christian - at 17, in a simple solution to quell the sexuality conflicts in my mind i dedicated myself to Jesus, partly because my brothers Pastor treated me as a challenge. It lasted about 3 months before realised this path wasnt for me. But over that period, i had started this mindset of 'I was right and all nonbeievers deserve to burn in hell for all eternity' type thing. but then i realised what a hypocrit i was and how easy it was to be manipulated by that current religious group so i moved on (i have personally nothing agaist christianity, but more the institutions that govern and skew it that piss me off)
But that was the first - and definitely not the most profound in terms of my life experience:
The gay scene. I call myself now happily bi. when I first came out at 19, I though I was completely gay, and when i did come out- it was pure exhilaration. I could walk past the Evangelical Union (biggest christian group on campus at Sydney Uni, also summarised to the 'EU' causing numerous bad jokes) and feel proud of my own identity.
But even in that scene i found things that made me unxomfortable. So what? - i should flop my wrist around and lisp? ridiculous! - i realised that old friends that i had who 'came out', gradually began to adopt the stereotype. They began to exaggerate hand movements, wear 'interesting' hair and fashion statements - the guys I had known at 19 as good mates, two yrs later were fulll blown gay stereoypes, completely bitchy Sl#ts.
In some ways i am a stereotype. I enjoy cooking, can colour coordinate, and have discussions with my mother about interior desigm and her paint schemes. I can even discuss emotions - have i fallen into a stereotype or followed my own interests?
Now, is this a function of their own selves, or have they simply become part of the stereotype of that community??
Ive had the occaisonal dapply in the Goth scene, and have seen the exact same thing as in the other communities. Humans, especially younger persons who are more impressionable, tend more towards a particular scene or sbculture - and find a bunch of accepting loving people who will happily accept you into there group.
Christian, Goth, Gay - from the purely anthopological perspective ive seen the same in all 3 communities over my last 7 years.
The 'engineer' community doesnt both me to much - mainly a bunch of nerdy kids trying to downplay their intelligence i mostly found - but once again i found some guys enveloped the personality of a 'typical' engineeing student - despite most of us wanting nothig to do with it.
The hippy/raver/firespinner community ive gradually fell into over the last few years, and have other thoughts about these - with the same lines of thought as with other communities but perhaps with more long term happiness.
Ive perhaps found myself most comfortable with these 'scenes' because no-one cares.... completely open minded.
anyway i digress - hopefully to get the idea of whats going on in my head my key questions are
- have you felt yourself drawn into a community/suculture and why
- once in this community, did you find yourself adopting any stereotypical aspects of this groups, and
- did you feel obliged to be part of the group, did it feel like a natural choice after a certain period in the group to adapt...
*yawn* its 2am an di really should be off to bed, ill probably want to massively edit my post in the morning, but might generate some more coherent thought and posts where this had been discussed before i cant be bothered finding.
gnight
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1138116103)
Due to my somewhat excessive interest in self analysis over the past few years, Ive got a few ideas floating around n my head i would appreciate feedback on.
Ive probably written several thousand words on this in the past in my journal -but lifes good right now - and ive changed so much in the past 2 yrs im not sure many of my old writings have much relevance anymore.
This is particularly to do with stereotypes, and the tendency to subconciously adapt the stereotypical characteristics that a particular group entails.
now ill probably insult many during this post. If you have anything intelligent to say, id appreciate a comment. If you wish to incoherently abuse me, feel free via PM, but i wont really care,
Now - of key minority/subculture scenes ive dabbled in the past 5 years of my life, they include christian, engineer, gay, goth, hippy, and raver. there may be a few more which elude me at this point but these are the major ones.
in each of these 'community groups' as i will call them, I have found a significant urge to adopt, and in some cases envloped the stereotype of that particular community. is this a natural human tendancy? the urge to adapt to be accepted?
Id rather keep my own experiences brief as i am more interested in others to get these ideas more sorted in my head - but need to explain some idea where im coming from .
In order of experience:
Christian - at 17, in a simple solution to quell the sexuality conflicts in my mind i dedicated myself to Jesus, partly because my brothers Pastor treated me as a challenge. It lasted about 3 months before realised this path wasnt for me. But over that period, i had started this mindset of 'I was right and all nonbeievers deserve to burn in hell for all eternity' type thing. but then i realised what a hypocrit i was and how easy it was to be manipulated by that current religious group so i moved on (i have personally nothing agaist christianity, but more the institutions that govern and skew it that piss me off)
But that was the first - and definitely not the most profound in terms of my life experience:
The gay scene. I call myself now happily bi. when I first came out at 19, I though I was completely gay, and when i did come out- it was pure exhilaration. I could walk past the Evangelical Union (biggest christian group on campus at Sydney Uni, also summarised to the 'EU' causing numerous bad jokes) and feel proud of my own identity.
But even in that scene i found things that made me unxomfortable. So what? - i should flop my wrist around and lisp? ridiculous! - i realised that old friends that i had who 'came out', gradually began to adopt the stereotype. They began to exaggerate hand movements, wear 'interesting' hair and fashion statements - the guys I had known at 19 as good mates, two yrs later were fulll blown gay stereoypes, completely bitchy Sl#ts.
In some ways i am a stereotype. I enjoy cooking, can colour coordinate, and have discussions with my mother about interior desigm and her paint schemes. I can even discuss emotions - have i fallen into a stereotype or followed my own interests?
Now, is this a function of their own selves, or have they simply become part of the stereotype of that community??
Ive had the occaisonal dapply in the Goth scene, and have seen the exact same thing as in the other communities. Humans, especially younger persons who are more impressionable, tend more towards a particular scene or sbculture - and find a bunch of accepting loving people who will happily accept you into there group.
Christian, Goth, Gay - from the purely anthopological perspective ive seen the same in all 3 communities over my last 7 years.
The 'engineer' community doesnt both me to much - mainly a bunch of nerdy kids trying to downplay their intelligence i mostly found - but once again i found some guys enveloped the personality of a 'typical' engineeing student - despite most of us wanting nothig to do with it.
The hippy/raver/firespinner community ive gradually fell into over the last few years, and have other thoughts about these - with the same lines of thought as with other communities but perhaps with more long term happiness.
Ive perhaps found myself most comfortable with these 'scenes' because no-one cares.... completely open minded.
anyway i digress - hopefully to get the idea of whats going on in my head my key questions are
- have you felt yourself drawn into a community/suculture and why
- once in this community, did you find yourself adopting any stereotypical aspects of this groups, and
- did you feel obliged to be part of the group, did it feel like a natural choice after a certain period in the group to adapt...
*yawn* its 2am an di really should be off to bed, ill probably want to massively edit my post in the morning, but might generate some more coherent thought and posts where this had been discussed before i cant be bothered finding.
gnight
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1138116103)
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
Dealing in Perception & Probability
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
Posted:
- have you felt yourself drawn into a community/suculture and why
- yes. the rave culture spacificaly. why....well i don't know actually
i just fell that it's more "me" than any other culture. but to me there is more to the rave culture than just one group. you have you trance nation the break-beat junkies, DnB purists, house heads, etc. i have noticed that each one has their own "steroetypes.
- once in this community, did you find yourself adopting any stereotypical aspects of this groups
-again yes. it's human nature to adapt to your enviroment. i fell victim to a majority of the stereotypes. the reason being, and this may alos tick people off, there are truths to stereotypes. some are over exagerated, but for the most part, they're there for a reason.
- did you feel obliged to be part of the group, did it feel like a natural choice after a certain period in the group to adapt...
-natural change, not so much choice. again going back to what i said, it's human nature to adapt to your suroundings...
- have you felt yourself drawn into a community/suculture and why
- yes. the rave culture spacificaly. why....well i don't know actually
i just fell that it's more "me" than any other culture. but to me there is more to the rave culture than just one group. you have you trance nation - once in this community, did you find yourself adopting any stereotypical aspects of this groups
-again yes. it's human nature to adapt to your enviroment. i fell victim to a majority of the stereotypes. the reason being, and this may alos tick people off, there are truths to stereotypes. some are over exagerated, but for the most part, they're there for a reason.
- did you feel obliged to be part of the group, did it feel like a natural choice after a certain period in the group to adapt...
-natural change, not so much choice. again going back to what i said, it's human nature to adapt to your suroundings...
Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.
If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
- have you felt yourself drawn into a community/suculture and why
yes i go through fads, the most significant in order
high school over achiever - appease parental presure
hacker - avoid reality
gym junky - to appease self image
capoeira - indulge social aspect of human nature and indulge ego
fire spinning - new social outlet after fall out with capoeira teacher over a girl i wasnt even hitting on!!
model - went to modelling school because my girlfriend was
contact staffer - search for mastery of physical self
gay model poet aka derik troy - realised that other ppls opinions arnt as important as i though so i embrased all that was derek zoolander and brad pitt in troy.
- once in this community, did you find yourself adopting any stereotypical aspects of this groups, and
high school over achiever - i went to summer schools for geeks
hacker - slept for only a few hours a night for 2 years straight
gym junky - became obsessed with exercise and seeing the results
capoeira - became much more social
fire spinning - not really
model - my natural walk was considered a catwalk walk so i guess i was already there?
contact staffer - is there a stereotype? mmmm nerdy boy (or meg) with degree in something relating to computers or maths
gay model poet aka derik troy - one and only
- did you feel obliged to be part of the group, did it feel like a natural choice after a certain period in the group to adapt...
i have what i would describe as an addictive personality, whatever i do i do well and i do it lots until im satisfied with it, so i find that alot of the time i develope stereotypical behaviour because it evolves out of wanting to be the best rather than feeling obliged to change
- have you felt yourself drawn into a community/suculture and why
yes i go through fads, the most significant in order
high school over achiever - appease parental presure
hacker - avoid reality
gym junky - to appease self image
capoeira - indulge social aspect of human nature and indulge ego
fire spinning - new social outlet after fall out with capoeira teacher over a girl i wasnt even hitting on!!
model - went to modelling school because my girlfriend was
contact staffer - search for mastery of physical self
gay model poet aka derik troy - realised that other ppls opinions arnt as important as i though so i embrased all that was derek zoolander and brad pitt in troy.
- once in this community, did you find yourself adopting any stereotypical aspects of this groups, and
high school over achiever - i went to summer schools for geeks
hacker - slept for only a few hours a night for 2 years straight
gym junky - became obsessed with exercise and seeing the results
capoeira - became much more social
fire spinning - not really
model - my natural walk was considered a catwalk walk so i guess i was already there?
contact staffer - is there a stereotype? mmmm nerdy boy (or meg) with degree in something relating to computers or maths
gay model poet aka derik troy - one and only
- did you feel obliged to be part of the group, did it feel like a natural choice after a certain period in the group to adapt...
i have what i would describe as an addictive personality, whatever i do i do well and i do it lots until im satisfied with it, so i find that alot of the time i develope stereotypical behaviour because it evolves out of wanting to be the best rather than feeling obliged to change
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
SILVER Member
addict
667 posts
Location: Cannock, staffordshire, United Kingdom
addict
667 posts
Location: Cannock, staffordshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
hmm read and have my own opinions
there is stereotypes that will say ok ur a goth u wear black and worship the devil.... wrong far from it
ravers get accused of being druggies when most my mates are ravers/ clubbers and well dont take drugs and even if they did dabble in the odd recreational drug it dont make them a druggy, a druggy is someone who takes all the time and the average raver takes maybe once a month...
there is also many other groups of people mainly round music eras such as rock fans, metalists, goths, ravers, country and yes they tend to follow a style maybe in the way they dress but that doesnt mean people have the right to say oh they are druggy ravers or oh they are weird satan worshipping goths ect ect
then during schools u have the ppl who do well also known as nerds, and you have the popular group where the girls all do there make up and hair and watch the guys who play sport and are good at it, you normally have the kids who wag school and generally dont do too well and just act like the class clowns and yes you get religious people, also asian and coloured people are stereo typed against..
it doesnt mean just cause u chose to follow a group you are the same as those in the group and should be stereo typed against...
the truth is unless you really give a chance to people into different things than yourself you are going to go about assuming they are how everyone else is
chav is another axample, people assume all chavs are trouble makers who go round robbing people and beating people up when it is just a fashion trend that means they get stereo typed again as all being the same,
yes i have been in many groups in my time from the kid who wagged school to the goth and raver and now more a rock and metal chick and yes my fashion changes with the different things im into but i am still an individual.....
thats my thoughts on it anyway
dont know if that was exactly what u wanted to know.
hmm read and have my own opinions
there is stereotypes that will say ok ur a goth u wear black and worship the devil.... wrong far from it
ravers get accused of being druggies when most my mates are ravers/ clubbers and well dont take drugs and even if they did dabble in the odd recreational drug it dont make them a druggy, a druggy is someone who takes all the time and the average raver takes maybe once a month...
there is also many other groups of people mainly round music eras such as rock fans, metalists, goths, ravers, country and yes they tend to follow a style maybe in the way they dress but that doesnt mean people have the right to say oh they are druggy ravers or oh they are weird satan worshipping goths ect ect
then during schools u have the ppl who do well also known as nerds, and you have the popular group where the girls all do there make up and hair and watch the guys who play sport and are good at it, you normally have the kids who wag school and generally dont do too well and just act like the class clowns and yes you get religious people, also asian and coloured people are stereo typed against..
it doesnt mean just cause u chose to follow a group you are the same as those in the group and should be stereo typed against...
the truth is unless you really give a chance to people into different things than yourself you are going to go about assuming they are how everyone else is
chav is another axample, people assume all chavs are trouble makers who go round robbing people and beating people up when it is just a fashion trend that means they get stereo typed again as all being the same,
yes i have been in many groups in my time from the kid who wagged school to the goth and raver and now more a rock and metal chick and yes my fashion changes with the different things im into but i am still an individual.....
thats my thoughts on it anyway
dont know if that was exactly what u wanted to know.
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BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
I find that people stereotype you on the people you hang out with. If you hang out with a group of people, you'll be stereotyped. True.
BUT I would say that the best people I've met in my life have been ones who LIKED the stereotype. People who LIKE geeks, and people who LIKE fire spinning hippie-types are exactly the people who I find I get along with. Even if I don't exactly fit the stereotype, then odds are they're still willing to get to know me.
Example: I went to Science Fiction and Fantasy Society at University. I fitted in quite well with them, and got to know several of them quite well. It's only last fortnight that they've gotten to know that I spin fire, which is about as far removed from geeky stereotypes as it's possible to be. They think it's S*it hot, and love watching it. I've yet to find a hippie who'll come to SF+F with me though, but I haven't given up hope!
And if I'm part of a group, then I'll take on the group identity so long as it doesn't compromise my own sense of self. I'll wear a bandanna and spin fire, but I won't smoke weed. I'll play computer games and play Magic: TG, but I won't stop going out for a drink.
I like who I am, so I don't really care about anyone who can't see that.
Oh, and:
I do all of that too, but I'm not gay
... I'm about 97% straight...
But we've established that you don't go to "Normal" raves! (Joking, joking!)
They don't?
EDITED_BY: Sethis (1138128017)
I find that people stereotype you on the people you hang out with. If you hang out with a group of people, you'll be stereotyped. True.
BUT I would say that the best people I've met in my life have been ones who LIKED the stereotype. People who LIKE geeks, and people who LIKE fire spinning hippie-types are exactly the people who I find I get along with. Even if I don't exactly fit the stereotype, then odds are they're still willing to get to know me.
Example: I went to Science Fiction and Fantasy Society at University. I fitted in quite well with them, and got to know several of them quite well. It's only last fortnight that they've gotten to know that I spin fire, which is about as far removed from geeky stereotypes as it's possible to be. They think it's S*it hot, and love watching it. I've yet to find a hippie who'll come to SF+F with me though, but I haven't given up hope!
And if I'm part of a group, then I'll take on the group identity so long as it doesn't compromise my own sense of self. I'll wear a bandanna and spin fire, but I won't smoke weed. I'll play computer games and play Magic: TG, but I won't stop going out for a drink.
I like who I am, so I don't really care about anyone who can't see that.
Oh, and:
Written by: Dentrassi
I enjoy cooking, can colour coordinate... I can even discuss emotions - have i fallen into a stereotype or followed my own interests?
I do all of that too, but I'm not gay
... I'm about 97% straight...Written by: dani_babyboo
most my mates are ravers/ clubbers and well dont take drugs and even if they did dabble in the odd recreational drug it dont make them a druggy, a druggy is someone who takes all the time and the average raver takes maybe once a month...
But we've established that you don't go to "Normal" raves!
(Joking, joking!)Written by: dani_babyboo
chav is another axample, people assume all chavs are trouble makers who go round robbing people and beating people up
They don't?
EDITED_BY: Sethis (1138128017)
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
SILVER Member
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posted:
the first word that came into my head on starting to read this was: Validation. not only do you (/we all) have a selfish need for Acceptance, in order to even know whether your actions are Accepted or Rejected, they have to be Validated as having happened in the first place. in fact, you wouldn't need to view your actions from the perspective of "group" if it weren't for the need to have a Validated experience, in my opinion. this leads directly to having a "valid gay" experience or a "valid goth" experience, etc. just as much as interior decorating is a "gay" activity for males, bashing those that take an interest in interior decorating is an "anti-gay" activity, and therefore just as dependant on group validation from people who don't identify as "gay". haha. basically, any stereotyping is, in my mind, an out-grouping activity (negative associating, creating a "them" to set yourself apart from). you get an attachment to a specific label in order to gain cool points from certain other people who identify with that label and to feel superiour to people who identify with the opposite of that label. the people in the groups know what the stereotypes for their label are, and probably represent them at times. they probably wouldn't be in the groups they were in if it weren't for liking the activities they're normally associated with.
-have you felt yourself drawn into a community/suculture and why?
yes. all subcultures have positive points in relationships and shared interests. i have friends in many different groups now and most of them cross stereotype lines if i'm hanging out with them. recently i started hanging with the clubbers to hear more EDM, then met the ravers and wanted to see how they party (and liked it too). i go back because i had a good time the last time i saw them. this was not the case in the mid90s when i was originally haging out with different clubbers/ravers, and did not get into the cultures at all.
- once in this community, did you find yourself adopting any stereotypical aspects of this groups, and
yes and no. depending on how you define the groups, i look like a raver to the clubbers and a clubber to the ravers, which is kinda contradictory. i'm more likely to do raver things in a raver environment, but not moreso than a "real raver". i'm less likely to do raver things in a club than a "real raver" might. and the "metalist" things i do are likely to be mis-interpreted in both contexts... i don't think it's particularly "raver" to leave a store with nothing but a gallon of OJ, but some might have that as part of their stereotype arsenal while they're grocery shopping.
- did you feel obliged to be part of the group, did it feel like a natural choice after a certain period in the group to adapt...
nope. i'm still not an integral part of some of the groups. i think the problem is that i don't feel "anti-" enough to the groups this group opposes. if they start bashing and i can't take their side, they're not going to consider me part of their group, even if i label myself the same as they label themselves. labels and stereotypes are pretty well overlapping always and changable. it's hard to even think of what might be considered stereotypical by someone else without setting up their own viewpoints and what labels and anti-labels the identify with first.
here's my questions back -
what traits do you consider stereotypical of a firespinner?
what traits do you think non-spinners things are stereotypical of us?
how much do you think the stereotypes people have of what stereotypes other groups have influences things?
can you be "stereotypically open-minded"? and what do "open-minded" people usually think of "closed-minded" people? what do "closed-minded" people usually think about "open-minded" people?
...
summary: it's basically all lossy communications used to out-group people who don't identify with your chosen labels.
-- dut
the first word that came into my head on starting to read this was: Validation. not only do you (/we all) have a selfish need for Acceptance, in order to even know whether your actions are Accepted or Rejected, they have to be Validated as having happened in the first place. in fact, you wouldn't need to view your actions from the perspective of "group" if it weren't for the need to have a Validated experience, in my opinion. this leads directly to having a "valid gay" experience or a "valid goth" experience, etc. just as much as interior decorating is a "gay" activity for males, bashing those that take an interest in interior decorating is an "anti-gay" activity, and therefore just as dependant on group validation from people who don't identify as "gay". haha. basically, any stereotyping is, in my mind, an out-grouping activity (negative associating, creating a "them" to set yourself apart from). you get an attachment to a specific label in order to gain cool points from certain other people who identify with that label and to feel superiour to people who identify with the opposite of that label. the people in the groups know what the stereotypes for their label are, and probably represent them at times. they probably wouldn't be in the groups they were in if it weren't for liking the activities they're normally associated with.
-have you felt yourself drawn into a community/suculture and why?
yes. all subcultures have positive points in relationships and shared interests. i have friends in many different groups now and most of them cross stereotype lines if i'm hanging out with them. recently i started hanging with the clubbers to hear more EDM, then met the ravers and wanted to see how they party (and liked it too). i go back because i had a good time the last time i saw them. this was not the case in the mid90s when i was originally haging out with different clubbers/ravers, and did not get into the cultures at all.
- once in this community, did you find yourself adopting any stereotypical aspects of this groups, and
yes and no. depending on how you define the groups, i look like a raver to the clubbers and a clubber to the ravers, which is kinda contradictory. i'm more likely to do raver things in a raver environment, but not moreso than a "real raver". i'm less likely to do raver things in a club than a "real raver" might. and the "metalist" things i do are likely to be mis-interpreted in both contexts... i don't think it's particularly "raver" to leave a store with nothing but a gallon of OJ, but some might have that as part of their stereotype arsenal while they're grocery shopping.
- did you feel obliged to be part of the group, did it feel like a natural choice after a certain period in the group to adapt...
nope. i'm still not an integral part of some of the groups. i think the problem is that i don't feel "anti-" enough to the groups this group opposes. if they start bashing and i can't take their side, they're not going to consider me part of their group, even if i label myself the same as they label themselves. labels and stereotypes are pretty well overlapping always and changable. it's hard to even think of what might be considered stereotypical by someone else without setting up their own viewpoints and what labels and anti-labels the identify with first.
here's my questions back -
what traits do you consider stereotypical of a firespinner?
what traits do you think non-spinners things are stereotypical of us?
how much do you think the stereotypes people have of what stereotypes other groups have influences things?
can you be "stereotypically open-minded"? and what do "open-minded" people usually think of "closed-minded" people? what do "closed-minded" people usually think about "open-minded" people?
...
summary: it's basically all lossy communications used to out-group people who don't identify with your chosen labels.
-- dut
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
no doubt this will look hidiously simplistic compared to all the other long posts, but..........
it sounds to me like you are asking about freewill, people 'choose' to be in a particular group, but then conform to what is expected in that group. i dont know, like i said, simplistic.........
no doubt this will look hidiously simplistic compared to all the other long posts, but..........
it sounds to me like you are asking about freewill, people 'choose' to be in a particular group, but then conform to what is expected in that group. i dont know, like i said, simplistic.........
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
Dealing in Perception & Probability
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
Posted:
sometimes those are the best answers......
Written by: Mr Majestik
like i said, simplistic.........
sometimes those are the best answers......
Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.
If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.
SILVER Member
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667 posts
Location: Cannock, staffordshire, United Kingdom
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667 posts
Location: Cannock, staffordshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
sethis i have been going to real raves since i was 14 and club controled raves since 16
and yes have done my fair share of ilegal stuff inthe past the arguement before was on how all ravs arent the same and yet again the stereo typing is in action 
sethis i have been going to real raves since i was 14 and club controled raves since 16
and yes have done my fair share of ilegal stuff inthe past the arguement before was on how all ravs arent the same and yet again the stereo typing is in action
enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token
o jej, ale bym ci wylizal ten pepek
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Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Dentrassi - to me this doesn't sound strange or such... everyone of us has gotten (more or less) through phases in their lives. One day we look at old pictures of ourselves from years back and by looking at the images we go: "ohh my gooood - look, how (...) I was"
To me this is all a process of determination, of finding out who one really is. Maybe Instead of turning inwards, some go outwards and shape ourselves by trial and error... **O.K. this is not me, O.K. that's partly me - here I can find a piece of my identity** It's like cooking a great meal... one takes a cup of this, a spoonful of that, a dash of something else... all cooked with love (preferrably)...
I have been through this myself - was a part of a few groups so to say - little by little, time after time, the real "me" crystalizes out of the melange.
Maybe it's a "sign of the times"? If you'd talk to your grandparents generation that you are/ were "looking for yourself" you - most likely - will receive a or - look and some statement like 
- in this generation it was different... very different...
These days we have the unique opportunity to render our very own personality (not that this would make anything more easy) we can find out by ourselves - it's not so very much our parents who define us, neither we get told by the government. We have a solitary opportunity - which causes a lot of confusion, too - makes us prone victims of commercialism.
In "stronger" societies (for say a muslim environment) this is different and some of "them" look at "us", considering us to be "weak" and maybe even "degenerated", "hedonists"... etc. In many cultures it's still very archetypical. For Indians it's unbelieveable that family ties are so loose, that divorces are so common - same with Indonesians and for say South Americans.
For many of those the idendity is already coming with the package - it's more easy and it's harder - depending on personality...
Do I still make sense or are you already?
I don't want to turn this into a lecture or sound "wise" - which I am not... so I close here and hope that I these words were of some help... (?)
Dentrassi - to me this doesn't sound strange or such... everyone of us has gotten (more or less) through phases in their lives. One day we look at old pictures of ourselves from years back and by looking at the images we go: "ohh my gooood - look, how (...) I was"
To me this is all a process of determination, of finding out who one really is. Maybe Instead of turning inwards, some go outwards and shape ourselves by trial and error... **O.K. this is not me, O.K. that's partly me - here I can find a piece of my identity** It's like cooking a great meal... one takes a cup of this, a spoonful of that, a dash of something else... all cooked with love (preferrably)...
I have been through this myself - was a part of a few groups so to say - little by little, time after time, the real "me" crystalizes out of the melange.
Maybe it's a "sign of the times"? If you'd talk to your grandparents generation that you are/ were "looking for yourself" you - most likely - will receive a
or - look and some statement like - in this generation it was different... very different...These days we have the unique opportunity to render our very own personality (not that this would make anything more easy) we can find out by ourselves - it's not so very much our parents who define us, neither we get told by the government. We have a solitary opportunity - which causes a lot of confusion, too - makes us prone victims of commercialism.
In "stronger" societies (for say a muslim environment) this is different and some of "them" look at "us", considering us to be "weak" and maybe even "degenerated", "hedonists"... etc. In many cultures it's still very archetypical. For Indians it's unbelieveable that family ties are so loose, that divorces are so common - same with Indonesians and for say South Americans.
For many of those the idendity is already coming with the package - it's more easy and it's harder - depending on personality...
Do I still make sense or are you
already?I don't want to turn this into a lecture or sound "wise" - which I am not... so I close here and hope that I these words were of some help... (?)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
damndamndamndamndamn
i knew i was doing someting wrong(my degree is only in chemistry)
Written by: ben-ja-men
contact staffer - is there a stereotype? mmmm nerdy boy (or meg) with degree in something relating to computers or maths
damndamndamndamndamn
i knew i was doing someting wrong(my degree is only in chemistry)
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
well i dont have any degree, does that mean i should stop contact for the next four years? :P
well i dont have any degree, does that mean i should stop contact for the next four years? :P
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
*You're* doing something wrong? I'm doing Sociology with Education! 6 hours of lectures/seminars per week!! And it's all on Mon-Weds so I have a 4 day weekend!!!
What does that make ME?? (Apart from smarter in my choice of degree? )
Written by: bluecatWritten by: ben-ja-men
contact staffer - is there a stereotype? mmmm nerdy boy (or meg) with degree in something relating to computers or maths
damndamndamndamndamn
i knew i was doing someting wrong(my degree is only in chemistry)
*You're* doing something wrong? I'm doing Sociology with Education! 6 hours of lectures/seminars per week!! And it's all on Mon-Weds so I have a 4 day weekend!!!
What does that make ME?? (Apart from smarter in my choice of degree?
) After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
that would explain alot
Written by: bluecat
i knew i was doing someting wrong(my degree is only in chemistry)
that would explain alot
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
This might be random (and I suspect a bit off topic), but I spent a lot of time on buses and train today:
I was thinking about comminities and cultures but their clothes (I temporarily joined the goth subculture last night).
If you wear the clothes, you are it. I'm not a goth. But last night I was wearing the clothes and as far as anyone was concerned, including even the old school goths, I was a goth. No question.
But I know people can get protective of their subcultures and say that you need the right mindset or the like. So I thought about it in the context or army uniforms and school uniforms. No matter what you think or do, they define the country you fight for, or the school you are from. For example, I hated my high school's mindset, but I wore their unform therefore I belonged to that identity.
Feel free to pick that to pieces. I was having a major identity crisis when I was having these thought.
This might be random (and I suspect a bit off topic), but I spent a lot of time on buses and train today:
I was thinking about comminities and cultures but their clothes (I temporarily joined the goth subculture last night).
If you wear the clothes, you are it. I'm not a goth. But last night I was wearing the clothes and as far as anyone was concerned, including even the old school goths, I was a goth. No question.
But I know people can get protective of their subcultures and say that you need the right mindset or the like. So I thought about it in the context or army uniforms and school uniforms. No matter what you think or do, they define the country you fight for, or the school you are from. For example, I hated my high school's mindset, but I wore their unform therefore I belonged to that identity.
Feel free to pick that to pieces. I was having a major identity crisis when I was having these thought.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
SILVER Member
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667 posts
Location: Cannock, staffordshire, United Kingdom
addict
667 posts
Location: Cannock, staffordshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
lmao so true rouge dragon so true
i hate subway but i wear there uniform everyday cause i work there
lmao so true rouge dragon so true
i hate subway but i wear there uniform everyday cause i work there
enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token
o jej, ale bym ci wylizal ten pepek
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SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
lol, i have no work uniform i'd like to make my own clothes cause its cheaper, but then wouldn't i get put in an 'alternative' stereotype?
lol, i have no work uniform
i'd like to make my own clothes cause its cheaper, but then wouldn't i get put in an 'alternative' stereotype? "but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
an "alternative" stereoype is pretty much everyone who isn't in the "normal" one. In otherwords, as long as you don't wear what everyone else is wearing, you're alternative.
an "alternative" stereoype is pretty much everyone who isn't in the "normal" one. In otherwords, as long as you don't wear what everyone else is wearing, you're alternative.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
exactly, and most people buy the majority of their clothes, which is what i'm getting sick of cause i just want comfy clothes that dont fall apart in a month
exactly, and most people buy the majority of their clothes, which is what i'm getting sick of cause i just want comfy clothes that dont fall apart in a month
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
What style? There are some really good shops in australia that still sell quality clothing. Depends on which stereotype you want to fit but for comfortable clothes that don't fall apart, I like Colorado and Snowgum, Mountain Designs, Katmandu and those sorts of places when I need to buy clothes that make me look more respectiable (ie; not a "feral" as my delightful mother sometimes likes to call me ).
Yes, Offtopic, i know
What style? There are some really good shops in australia that still sell quality clothing. Depends on which stereotype you want to fit
but for comfortable clothes that don't fall apart, I like Colorado and Snowgum, Mountain Designs, Katmandu and those sorts of places when I need to buy clothes that make me look more respectiable (ie; not a "feral" as my delightful mother sometimes likes to call me ).Yes, Offtopic, i know
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
SILVER Member
addict
667 posts
Location: Cannock, staffordshire, United Kingdom
addict
667 posts
Location: Cannock, staffordshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
i make my own clubbing outfits from fur
have some wicked ones
i make my own clubbing outfits from fur
have some wicked ones
enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token
o jej, ale bym ci wylizal ten pepek
stepped up promotions
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
mm, i have a snowgum polar fleece, its so nice.
at the falls festival i lost my Fairy Down rain coat.
mm, i have a snowgum polar fleece, its so nice.
at the falls festival i lost my Fairy Down rain coat. "but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
hooray! i return from rainbow serpent and theres lots of replies! dont have time to type now as i have to drive to uberoz, but hopefully can get something typed on soon.
thanx to all for contributing
E.
hooray! i return from rainbow serpent and theres lots of replies! dont have time to type now as i have to drive to uberoz, but hopefully can get something typed on soon.
thanx to all for contributing
E.
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
enjoy unberoz, i'm coming to sydney next week!
enjoy unberoz, i'm coming to sydney next week!
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
SILVER Member
Member
38 posts
Location: Worcester, United Kingdom
Member
38 posts
Location: Worcester, United Kingdom
Posted:
people will join social groups or be born/thrust into them. to be accepted by the group - which all humans want in the end - people will begin to adopt the lingo, dress, attitudes etc.
if you dont - although to an outsider you are still part of that group (the eg if you choose to wear black clothes you 'become' a goth) - to the group itself you are not a true member or not considered a traditional member
as you go through life everyone comes across groups they want to be in (or dont) even if this is only a wish. as you change through life call it maturing/self actualisation/or whatever the groups you want to join or not be asociated with will change thus you will find yourself adopting other stereotypes
think thats says what i want to say, not sure
people will join social groups or be born/thrust into them. to be accepted by the group - which all humans want in the end - people will begin to adopt the lingo, dress, attitudes etc.
if you dont - although to an outsider you are still part of that group (the eg if you choose to wear black clothes you 'become' a goth) - to the group itself you are not a true member or not considered a traditional member
as you go through life everyone comes across groups they want to be in (or dont) even if this is only a wish. as you change through life call it maturing/self actualisation/or whatever the groups you want to join or not be asociated with will change thus you will find yourself adopting other stereotypes
think thats says what i want to say, not sure
Dream as is you will live forever, live as if you will die today.
A little bit of a board whore
147 posts
Location: Glasgow
147 posts
Location: Glasgow
Posted:
Having done a Chemistry degree too, I have been reliably informed by all and sundry, that not only must I be really clever, but I must be a geek too. And I do staff. But I digress
The stereotype question is an interesting one, and I'll put my twopenneth worth in, but I can only do it from my perspective (the gay one, with reference to the first post)
I think there are two sides to the whole stereotype thing. On the one side, it is the need to fit in. It's interesting to note that the opening poster noticed his gay mates falling into the stereotype at university. For lots of these people, it's the time where, having left home for the first time, they can develop as themselves, completely free from the preconceived ideas previous parents and friends might have. Also at this time though, they lose exactly the people who have so far influenced how they behave. For some people, this can mean they look to the behavior of others to mimic. It's not just gay type stereotypes who you notice this in, but also in courses (art students think they're the centre of the universe, medics always getting drunk etc-just examples by the way). Couple this with the fact that lots of people explore their sexuality at uni and decide to come out, role models are looked too even more.
Secondly, especially in reference to the gays of the wolrd, it can also be down to what people find attractive. Especially in those first, exploratory years, if you find a man attractive (or a woman for all you lovely lesbian ladies out there), and he is camp, then you might go down the camp route to try and attract him. Often people model themselves on what they find attractive. It can also help them feel part of a community, and to be easily identified with it.
Unfortunately, the gay scene in most towns is pretty much dominated by the stereotypes. From this, most people assume that all the gays are like that. In reality, there are a whole range of people, but the non camp, limp wristed, bitchy ones don't really like the scene at all. I know I don't. I much prefer to go to a nightclub where I like the music and the people I'm with, rather than going somewhere just because it's gay and having to dance to Kylie all night (She fantastic in small doses though).
At the end of the day, most people fit some of the criteria for some stereotype or another.
Paul (Who can also cook, colour coordinate and loves interior design)
Having done a Chemistry degree too, I have been reliably informed by all and sundry, that not only must I be really clever, but I must be a geek too. And I do staff. But I digress
The stereotype question is an interesting one, and I'll put my twopenneth worth in, but I can only do it from my perspective (the gay one, with reference to the first post)
I think there are two sides to the whole stereotype thing. On the one side, it is the need to fit in. It's interesting to note that the opening poster noticed his gay mates falling into the stereotype at university. For lots of these people, it's the time where, having left home for the first time, they can develop as themselves, completely free from the preconceived ideas previous parents and friends might have. Also at this time though, they lose exactly the people who have so far influenced how they behave. For some people, this can mean they look to the behavior of others to mimic. It's not just gay type stereotypes who you notice this in, but also in courses (art students think they're the centre of the universe, medics always getting drunk etc-just examples by the way). Couple this with the fact that lots of people explore their sexuality at uni and decide to come out, role models are looked too even more.
Secondly, especially in reference to the gays of the wolrd, it can also be down to what people find attractive. Especially in those first, exploratory years, if you find a man attractive (or a woman for all you lovely lesbian ladies out there), and he is camp, then you might go down the camp route to try and attract him. Often people model themselves on what they find attractive. It can also help them feel part of a community, and to be easily identified with it.
Unfortunately, the gay scene in most towns is pretty much dominated by the stereotypes. From this, most people assume that all the gays are like that. In reality, there are a whole range of people, but the non camp, limp wristed, bitchy ones don't really like the scene at all. I know I don't. I much prefer to go to a nightclub where I like the music and the people I'm with, rather than going somewhere just because it's gay and having to dance to Kylie all night (She fantastic in small doses though).
At the end of the day, most people fit some of the criteria for some stereotype or another.
Paul (Who can also cook, colour coordinate and loves interior design)
Ancient wiseman say "It is very strange person, who, when left alone in room with teacosy, does not try it on"
BRONZE Member
newbie
21 posts
Location: Arizona, USA
newbie
21 posts
Location: Arizona, USA
Posted:
People have always relied on other people for survival, so yes, fitting in is very important to us on a primal level. Then there’s also the fact that many people, especially young people, go through a lot of phases to figure out and fine tune who they are. Stereotypes are also just generalizations, which everyone makes, whether they admit it or not. I’ll admit, whenever I start a new semester I sit in the back of every class and pin point the weirdest or most awkward person in there, because in my experience the weird people are always the funnest and most interesting. Generalization muchly, but it saves time. Of course, this could also mean that I’m missing out on a lot of great friendships because I stereotype people. That’s the problem with generalizations, they leave so much out.
People are always fitting into stereotypes, the biggest being gender stereotypes. The thing about stereotypes though is that it plays into an “I’m better than you!” mentality, and that’s where it gets problematic. The jocks are inherently “better” than the geeks, which allows them to justify beating them up. In a way, you could say that ALL violence comes from stereotypes. It’s funny how something that we evolved to do to save time and learn quicker (generalize) is also the cause of many of the biggest problems in society.
That’s my spiel.
To answer the questions…
I’ve always had a strong sense of identity for my age, and by high school I stopped trying to fit in to any kind of group. I have friends who accept me as I am which is all that matters, and they're such a mish mash of personalities that I can't group us together as some kind of clique. In junior high, however, I just wanted to be “normal” because I was afraid of sticking out. Once I accepted that it wasn’t happening, I just let lose and became what I am now, and I haven't changed much since then. People have stereotyped me as more things than I can put a finger on, including goth (most common, I guess because of how I dress), hippie, geek, theatre nerd, edge… And in a way I can relate to all of them, but it’s not something I take seriously.
People have always relied on other people for survival, so yes, fitting in is very important to us on a primal level. Then there’s also the fact that many people, especially young people, go through a lot of phases to figure out and fine tune who they are. Stereotypes are also just generalizations, which everyone makes, whether they admit it or not. I’ll admit, whenever I start a new semester I sit in the back of every class and pin point the weirdest or most awkward person in there, because in my experience the weird people are always the funnest and most interesting. Generalization muchly, but it saves time. Of course, this could also mean that I’m missing out on a lot of great friendships because I stereotype people. That’s the problem with generalizations, they leave so much out.
People are always fitting into stereotypes, the biggest being gender stereotypes. The thing about stereotypes though is that it plays into an “I’m better than you!” mentality, and that’s where it gets problematic. The jocks are inherently “better” than the geeks, which allows them to justify beating them up. In a way, you could say that ALL violence comes from stereotypes. It’s funny how something that we evolved to do to save time and learn quicker (generalize) is also the cause of many of the biggest problems in society.
That’s my spiel.
To answer the questions…
I’ve always had a strong sense of identity for my age, and by high school I stopped trying to fit in to any kind of group. I have friends who accept me as I am which is all that matters, and they're such a mish mash of personalities that I can't group us together as some kind of clique. In junior high, however, I just wanted to be “normal” because I was afraid of sticking out. Once I accepted that it wasn’t happening, I just let lose and became what I am now, and I haven't changed much since then. People have stereotyped me as more things than I can put a finger on, including goth (most common, I guess because of how I dress), hippie, geek, theatre nerd, edge… And in a way I can relate to all of them, but it’s not something I take seriously.
Love is the prerogative of the brave.
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