Posted: 17th Apr 2003
Hey amigo, did you check page 2 in the War Topics? I think it might be there...

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

Posted: 17th Apr 2003
Dio,

I think NYC is referring to the "what it really means if you protest the war" thread.

Raph

Posted: 18th Apr 2003
Hmmm.... I don't often see threads just mysteriously vanish like that, but wouldn't that power lie in the hands of Malcolm, the Mods, and Raymund (who I believe started it)? Don't know why it would vanish without any sort of trace or explanation though... I could see that thread being a heated one so maybe they just wanted some good mojo back around here.

Ah well since the war is kinda over in a sense, it's not like the threads are too active anyway at this time. Still, I do regret the loss because there was a lot of information flying around that thread.

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

Posted: 18th Apr 2003
I fight for fun, it isnt that I dont get your points its that I dont give a damn. I work you untill I feel that your at your limits.

I test your convictions, force you to think about why you do things, why you feel certain ways. In return, you do the same for me.

This, in a strange way is fun. I enjoy the fight.

It has been brought to my attention that some people stopped having fun and were taking things personally. So I resolved the issue.

Now we have to start from scratch and find something else to argue about, maybe this time things will go better.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 18th Apr 2003
Hey NYC,
It looks like you were wrong .

And for your own good you have been censored by the US military, a force fighting for freedom*, Human rights** and free speech*** throughout the world. (Terms and conditions apply)

Remember the US/UK govt & military have got the biggest guns, so they must be right,
and they'll get to write history to.
But don't feel bad, feel "liberated".
Its for your own good
Glass

(* camp x-ray.
** www.amnesty.org
***yep your free to say anything as long as you always agree with right wing colon-ial crusades throughout the world)

Posted: 18th Apr 2003
I can't tell you how offended I am Ray. You deleted everything that I said.

You had absolutely no moral right to do delete my words.

Your Bigotry truely knows no bounds.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 18th Apr 2003
Man, thats pretty feeble.

Raph

Posted: 18th Apr 2003
I'll give you some background on this, just so you know that it isn't the American military stopping your fun.

I actually had an argument with Ray the other night about this thread, about how I felt that some people I liked and respected were being offended because of the attitude of posts, and how it was becoming far more serious than intended. I didn't ask him to delete the thread, in fact I asked him not to, but I can understand why the argument caused him to.

I was talking about people like you being offended, Glass, NYC, Raph. To be honest I am kinda wondering right now why I bothered worrying on any of your behalves.

If you are that worried about your precious words I have a copy of some of the posts that I took to look over before I discussed this with Ray. If you are that fussed I can send them to you and you can delight in your erudite arrogance once more.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

Posted: 19th Apr 2003
Well, firstly, thanks for the insult.

Secondly, FORGET the war issues. FORGET what was said. If someone is going to post something and I'm going to respond and then it's deleted...

WHY is this OK?
WHY in the heck should I not be offended?
and WHY would I ever post again?

Deleteing threads is honestly so much more offensive than anything that could be said on them. I would never delete anybody else's words.

Despite the obvious personal attacks, I'm trying not to take this personally. Call me naive.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 18th Apr 2003
I don't pretend to speak for the others who reacted negatively to the removal of a thread where I think everyone was getting his/her opinion voiced.

What annoyed me was the notion that someone would erase a debate that was well within the rules of this bulletin board.

The timing of it seems a bit like the kid who doesn't like how the game is going at the playground, so he picks up his ball and goes home.

I am not really sure where the personal insults directed towards those who are NOT in agreement with this kind of of censorship come from, but in a way they prove the points of those being attacked rather than the one who takes the cheap shots.

Raph

Posted: 19th Apr 2003

quote:

---

Originally posted by Raymund P.:

I test your convictions, force you to think about why you do things, why you feel certain ways. In return, you do the same for me.

---

I highly doubt the essence of this statement.In my time on this board I haven't witnessed anyone switch sides.Those who were pro-war are still pro-war and those who were anti-war are still anti-war.No ones reasons for there stance have changed much.

Though until recently Ray has been our sole source from the right.Most of the war topics wouldn't have lasted but a couple days without him.

You had better watch out though Ray me thinks that DaiTenshi is looking to claim your throne as chief antagonist.

Posted: 19th Apr 2003
have to say, i was finding the discussion fairly interesting although I never got any answers to my questions... (too painfully penetrating?!)

anyway, chill dudes
It would however have been nice to see the forum locked rather than deleted.

burn on

Ben

Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.

Posted: 19th Apr 2003
I like how ray is hideously full of himself.

Posted: 20th Apr 2003
***
Off topic but relevant...

So I used to fall into the trap of focusing on the negatives in my life. No matter how many positives there were I'd always dwell on one stupid thing that bugs me... well my life is damn near perfect these days.

This conversation and the fact that the thread which I had posted on being deleted bothered me... until I kicked myself at it's utter insignificance.

My job is going great.
The weather is getting warmer.
Firespinners are coming out hibernation.
A princess has come in to my life and blessed it with warmth and beauty.
My family is great.
My friends are super.
Interesting and facinating events in my favorite city in the world keep popping up on my emails.

Why the HELL am I stressing about HoP?

No... it's not one of those "goodbye forever" threads. I've got too many friends and loved ones on here to leave. And I do want to keep up on the latest "poi moves"

So I'm out. Out of the conversation and many future conversations. Not because I'm angry or vengeful or anything... but just because my life is too damn good to be bogged down in crap like this. Off to life in the real world.

Hugs and keep fighting the good fight. See most of you in poi moves or Queens. I gotta go kiss a pretty girl goodnight...

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 20th Apr 2003
you guys are trippin. Ray can NOT deleat posts just because he started the thread. I know because I just tested it on a thread that I started. Only administraters can do that.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 20th Apr 2003
You're wrong silly. If you delete your first post (by clicking the delete box) the whole thread goes. I've done it for threads I accidentally started in the wrong section.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 21st Apr 2003
hey NYC
welcome.

Posted: 21st Apr 2003
Well, I have been waiting and thinking of what to write, if to write anything.

What would one say to a bunch of sniveling twits anyway? So, I will address each of you in turn.

Censorship? Hardly, more like an attempt to calm down the flared tempers. You see, when I didn’t reply, it diffused the situation, people simply ran out of things to bitch at. It is kind of funny how you all took your forced cooling off period. When you were sent to the corner, you of course, bitched and moaned, called names, and let go some pretty impressive alligator tears . Then as time went on you accepted the situation.

Come on NYC, one post and you thought about quitting?? My goodness did you think about quitting teaching when you had to fail your first student? Obviously you have quit neither, and that is a good thing. Learn your lessons and live to fight another day.

You mentioned personal attacks… when did I attack you? You were the one calling names like a 4th grader.


Glass, you are truly pitiful, why should I say more? I laughed at your post. I have to wonder, if I was in fact lets say… a pizza delivery guy would you say that NYC had been censored by the Italian Government, or maybe just pizza franchises everywhere?

Raph, I wasn’t picking up my ball and going home, I was simply trying to get the tempers down. I have fun pushing peoples buttons I really do. Yet some people take that so damn personally. Instead of shrugging it off they soak it in. I caution everyone against doing that, you see it is bad for your health. Causes ulcers.

Poiaholic, I wasn’t trying to get anyone to swap sides, just look at things from a new perspective, maybe make them question why they feel a certain way. And to have my fun in doing so. I have no throne as an antagonist, and I am not worried about how HoPers view me. Don’t worry though, I will still be on my side, sometimes that is very “Right Wing” and sometimes it’s not.

Astar, yes I am hideously full of myself, if I wasn’t I would have multiple personalities, and image how f**ked up I would be then! But if I am full of myself, does that mean that you are the epitome of humbleness?


On a more defensive note, I think Rozi has been more upset about this than I have, as she feels stuck between people she has considered her friends & respected (until now) and her partner. I am also a bit surprised that nobody has openly taken up Rozi on her offer. Did you read that part? If you really gave a damn about this topic, wouldn’t you have jumped at a chance to revive at least some of it?

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 21st Apr 2003
::looks left, right, up and down and scratches skull... then remembers why she never posts in this section::

respect eachother and shine on, please shine on
Cassandra

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Posted: 21st Apr 2003
Ray, I must say, I never got angry, most of the time I merely laughed (or balked) at your ignorance, and as for making people "look at things from a new perspective" I think most people considered your views, and then dismissed them!

- me like pushing buttons too!!!

As for the sniveling twits bit... well never mind eih? we can all draw our own conclusions about why you deleted the thread (maybe you should think about that one from our perspective!).

True some bits were getting out of hand with the degeneration of heated discussion into argument, so i guess it was time to call some kind of order in.

My final thought is that it was a fairly interesting thread which I would have liked to continue with, cos fair play, I don't get that many chances to openly debate with "right wingers"...

"Vive la resistance!"

Ben

PS maybe we should get our good old administrators to post a warning on the war forum saying:
"Warning! Not for the weak hearted
(weak minded still allowed...)" hehehe

Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.

Posted: 21st Apr 2003
Dear God do you read anything? I said I'm NOT quitting. I'm just avoiding conversations where I'll be called a sniviling twit three paragraphs before I'm called a name caller.

I'm certainly not the first person on this board to be fed up with attempting to communicate with you and I certainly won't be the last. Not because of your political opinions but because of how frustrating it is to discuss them with you.

It's easy to fall into the:
"Wow, this is exciting, Ray has a totally different opinion than I do, let me take some time to discuss these interestng issues with him"

then to

"Wow, he's not listening to a word I'm saying. This conversation is completely pointless and I'm not gaining any joy from it at all."

As for Rozi, I feel uncomfortable responding. I certainly wouldn't ask a favor from someone who called my arrogant in the same sentence. There have been rumors circulating off board which cause me to avoid that entire situation.

If you need to think of me as a weak chicken then that's unfortunate. I am mearly changing the channel to something more enjoyable and intellectually rewarding.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 21st Apr 2003
Hmm.

Considering I have been avoiding the War Topics section for a while, and considering the respect i have for the people who have been involved in this thread, i think I'd like to offer an unbiased opinion.

NYC has a right to be upset and angry that the previous thread was deleted. It takes away alot of serious thought and personal expression that he has spent time to post. His first few posts were merely expressing his dismay at the thread being gone.

Glass came in with a witty, but somewhat biting view of "censorship" which, if worded somewhat better, could have allieviated some of the tension, but, unfortunately pushed things the other way.

And then it got nasty.

Rozi, Raymund, You know i love and respect you both, but having read this thread several times over now, I am really dismayed by your posts here. Take a good step back Rozi darling, and a lot of deep breathes, because i think you are letting this get to you a LOT more than it should. While i KNOW how much you are stressed about this, i shouldnt think you would have let it affect your judgement to the level where you are name calling. *hugz* sorry darlin.

Ray, you arent' really going to care, one way or another, as you mentioned, you like pushing buttons. But perhaps in the interest of maintaining an ideal of free speach on this board, you could think before deleting a whole thread. Next time it might be better if you just dont post in that thread anymore, rather than cutting off the whole line of communication.

Also, give some thought to the fact that calling people names, just gets their back up, and doesnt promote healthy discussion of any kind.

NYC, offtopic, Congratulations on having the white picket fence life at the moment. Happy to hear you are happy.

Apologies if i have offended anyone. My words here were written out of love and concern for the beautiful people i know here, and their friendships WITH EACH OTHER.

Currently on the right side up of the world.

Posted: 21st Apr 2003
fear leads to anger

anger leads to hate

hate leads to the dark side


Non-Https Image Link

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 21st Apr 2003
Santana are you going to post that in every thread?

Posted: 23rd Apr 2003
i truly don't know what to say.

possibly the most childish thing i've ever seen occur on this forum. this is the kind of behaviour that keeps me off of other bulletin boards.

in this case, as far as i'm concerned, ray can keep his ball - it never bounced properly in the first place anyway.

[ 26. April 2003, 04:24: Message edited by: coleman ]

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 11th May 2003
Wow, a whole hot bed of shit this one too.......why are we going thru this again?

Ray can delete his thread because Malcolm gives him ownership of his thread.
If he wants to retract his views, his events or even his membership, he's given the right and that's the way it is currently.

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that we were given a discretional ownership of the threads we started (as long as they didn't contravene the rules) and by posting back we were merely contributing to that persons line of thought and/or balancing the range of views.
Is it not the owners right to withdraw their words if they sees fit? Even if that happens to be the first post?

If anyone wants to safeguard their words they can copy them onto personal notepads or save pages onto memory or paper.

If the thread (which I haven't seen) was causing friction then it was Ray's choice to withdraw it from debate. Feel free to start your own thread to re-iterate the points you still feel unanswered. Although I personally wont be getting involved in the childish insulting and bitchiness that seems to be flying around on HOP again.

I have myself retracted threads in their entirety before because they were taken too seriously and used as an excuse for several members to attack each other dragging my thread and name along with it. I support Ray's decision even if I don't always support his views.

Small Lardy Person In Disguise

Posted: 11th May 2003
smallboy, i think it was the fact that it was such a hot/interesting topic that a lot of people spent a fair amount of time thinking about things they wrote- of course they weren't going to copy it down and save it somewhere, but they found it a lack of respect for it to have been taken off so suddenly- it wasn't only ray's words that were taken back, it was everyone else's too. I very much doubt ray "withdrew" anything he said, he simply deleted it. Fair enough it is his right, but disappointing to many all the same.

Ben

respect to everyone and to their right to have a view on anything they want.

Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.

Posted: 11th May 2003
Maybe people should stop being so disgustingly sensitive.

Posted: 12th May 2003
The words are already inside you, and if it's made you think about them then it's done what you set out to achieve.

If you want to share them with the rest of the world in a thread that you want last say in, start your own threads - even if you're re-opening a can of worms.

99% of the time (figures taken from own mind, not a published source) things don't need to get heated (at least not publically)and at the same time a lot of HOPers can't deal with things getting heated and feel the need to abuse each other in the process.
This is not the place for a public slanging match, and a lot of thread break down in this way.

(As I say I haven't read this particular thread)

A lot of thread owners feel responsible for starting the whole process, and I personally respect their decision to delete their threads.

Rays point of view might not have changed, but it doesn't mean he wanted to see everyone fighting.
By withdraw I meant from discussion.

(I don't think peoples point of view will always change, but arguing with each other isn't going to change them as easily as making that person question where they got their point of view from)

Please add punctuation in above as and where you see fit -

[ 12. May 2003, 22:22: Message edited by: SmallBoy ]

Small Lardy Person In Disguise

Posted: 12th May 2003
Astar, a lot of the time (especially when there's 2 hard line views and a lot of blame flying around) people take things very personally.

This forum in particular has a lot of media and socially induced points of view and it's all quite a terrible subject to start with that many people get offended quite easily.

It'd be nice if everyone could respect other people's view points a bit more but it's not always easy.

I don't post here for a reason -
Too many normally quite fluffy people to offend

Small Lardy Person In Disguise