Forums > Technical Discussion > Colour flame
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17 posts
Location: Country NSW
17 posts
Location: Country NSW
Posted:
Yes, yes, yes, I know this topic as been around before. I've already done heaps of searching.I've just managed to get a hold of some chemicals. Boric Acid and Potassium Permanganate. Boric Acid works well but I wasn't able to get Potassium Permanganate to work. I managed to get the Metho to go Purple but not the flame. also I've found that I can get a hold of copper salt (bluestone) and Potassium chloride but only in 50kg lots. that is way too much stuff, even more so if it doesn't work. I could do with some help.
Yes, yes, yes, I know this topic as been around before. I've already done heaps of searching.I've just managed to get a hold of some chemicals. Boric Acid and Potassium Permanganate. Boric Acid works well but I wasn't able to get Potassium Permanganate to work. I managed to get the Metho to go Purple but not the flame. also I've found that I can get a hold of copper salt (bluestone) and Potassium chloride but only in 50kg lots. that is way too much stuff, even more so if it doesn't work. I could do with some help.
BRONZE Member
member
33 posts
Location: Amherst, Massachusetts, USA
member
33 posts
Location: Amherst, Massachusetts, USA
Posted:
I don't know much about colored flames, just wanted to stop in to say nice login name
Blue fire is good stuff...See ya later, and welcome to HoP.ChrisNow cmon experienced pyro's, how we gonna make this one work?
I don't know much about colored flames, just wanted to stop in to say nice login name
Blue fire is good stuff...See ya later, and welcome to HoP.ChrisNow cmon experienced pyro's, how we gonna make this one work? Defy Gravity!
member
158 posts
Location: Oxford, U.K.
158 posts
Location: Oxford, U.K.
Posted:
i have no expirience with coloured flame so my answer is probably not alot of use...but from what i have read on other topics (try searching, you should always search before you start a topic ) :depending on what salts/solutes you use you have to use different fuels which desolve the salt i dont know which fuels go with which salts but as i said try searching, failing that im sure somone will tell you.btw, welcome to homeofpoi, im fairly new here too but ive found it an amazing sorce of information.
i have no expirience with coloured flame so my answer is probably not alot of use...but from what i have read on other topics (try searching, you should always search before you start a topic
) :depending on what salts/solutes you use you have to use different fuels which desolve the salt i dont know which fuels go with which salts but as i said try searching, failing that im sure somone will tell you.btw, welcome to homeofpoi, im fairly new here too but ive found it an amazing sorce of information. One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew there swords and Shot each other.
member
17 posts
Location: Country NSW
17 posts
Location: Country NSW
Posted:
I've done the searching. From my research I've found that alcohol based fuels are the best. From what I found on the web, and by searching at this site I learnt that Potassium Permanganate was the best stuff for producing a Purple flame. another name for Metho is denatured alcohol, so my experiment should have work. I tried dissolving the Potassium Permanganate in metho, and I also tried just burning it, and in both cases it didn't produce a purple flame. Because I don't know anything about chemistry, except for the seaching i've done in the last month, I'm guessing that I might have made a mistake in my preparation which was to dissolve the Potassium Permanganate in Metho until it wouldn't dissolve anymore. from what I know, it should have worked....my researching has also shown me that copper salt (bluestone) and Potassium chloride should also work. With bluestone producing a blue/green flame, and potassium chloride producing a purple flame. I'm hoping someone here will tell me how well they work, and whether it is worth getting them. I want to know if my researching for those two compounds is false. If anyone is interested on the information I've gathered together, I could post it. I can't afford to do the experiments myself. Unless I'm luckly enough to get the compounds in small amounts. I was in the case of Boric Acid and Potassium Permanganate. I'm still trying to get a hold of other chemicals, but i'm not having much luck.I'm performing on Australia day, and I'm hoping that I might be able to use coloured flames, so if someone can give me an answer to what I see, that would be great. at the moment it looks like I'll be doing doubles, with green and gold flames. Which is sort of ok, but I would like other colours as well......btw, it is my first paid performance, well, sort of, they asked me how much they should pay me, and I didn't know. So it is what I can make on the day.
I've done the searching. From my research I've found that alcohol based fuels are the best. From what I found on the web, and by searching at this site I learnt that Potassium Permanganate was the best stuff for producing a Purple flame. another name for Metho is denatured alcohol, so my experiment should have work. I tried dissolving the Potassium Permanganate in metho, and I also tried just burning it, and in both cases it didn't produce a purple flame. Because I don't know anything about chemistry, except for the seaching i've done in the last month, I'm guessing that I might have made a mistake in my preparation which was to dissolve the Potassium Permanganate in Metho until it wouldn't dissolve anymore. from what I know, it should have worked....my researching has also shown me that copper salt (bluestone) and Potassium chloride should also work. With bluestone producing a blue/green flame, and potassium chloride producing a purple flame. I'm hoping someone here will tell me how well they work, and whether it is worth getting them. I want to know if my researching for those two compounds is false. If anyone is interested on the information I've gathered together, I could post it. I can't afford to do the experiments myself. Unless I'm luckly enough to get the compounds in small amounts. I was in the case of Boric Acid and Potassium Permanganate. I'm still trying to get a hold of other chemicals, but i'm not having much luck.I'm performing on Australia day, and I'm hoping that I might be able to use coloured flames, so if someone can give me an answer to what I see, that would be great. at the moment it looks like I'll be doing doubles, with green and gold flames. Which is sort of ok, but I would like other colours as well......btw, it is my first paid performance, well, sort of, they asked me how much they should pay me, and I didn't know. So it is what I can make on the day.
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
NYC is a science teacher. You should ask him.
NYC is a science teacher. You should ask him.
Meh
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Ug.I've never actually used colored flames for spinning fire. Every little bit of my solubility and reactivity information is scattered throughout this site.I've yet to find a solvent that works well and I feel safe spinning with so I stick with my lamp oil and good old fashioned orange flames...Dissolving potassium permanganate in methanol should have worked IF it is soluable enough in methanol. I've never worked with the stuff... I'll see if I have any and try to play with it this week but I'm crazy busy so I'm not sure if I'll be able to. I'd love some help from anyone who actually WORKED with colored flames on poi...
Ug.
I've never actually used colored flames for spinning fire. Every little bit of my solubility and reactivity information is scattered throughout this site.I've yet to find a solvent that works well and I feel safe spinning with so I stick with my lamp oil and good old fashioned orange flames...Dissolving potassium permanganate in methanol should have worked IF it is soluable enough in methanol. I've never worked with the stuff... I'll see if I have any and try to play with it this week but I'm crazy busy so I'm not sure if I'll be able to. I'd love some help from anyone who actually WORKED with colored flames on poi... Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
17 posts
Location: Country NSW
17 posts
Location: Country NSW
Posted:
ok, I've found out some more information. I had a chat to an chemistry Professor and he told be to stay clear of potassium permanganate, something to do with it being an oxidising agent... I'm told that's not good.I did some more searching for chemicals, and I'm going to test out copper sulfate tonight, that should produce a green flame. So I will still only be able to produce two colours (yellow and green). I'll also be testing out, Sulfate of Iron, and aluminium sulfate. With them I will hopefully produce sparkling flames.
ok, I've found out some more information. I had a chat to an chemistry Professor and he told be to stay clear of potassium permanganate, something to do with it being an oxidising agent... I'm told that's not good.I did some more searching for chemicals, and I'm going to test out copper sulfate tonight, that should produce a green flame. So I will still only be able to produce two colours (yellow and green). I'll also be testing out, Sulfate of Iron, and aluminium sulfate. With them I will hopefully produce sparkling flames.
poo-bah
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
Posted:
The way most folks around here get green flames is with boric acid (roach powder) and denatured alcohol. Both available at your friendly neighborhood hardware store.Soak wick in denatured alcohol.Sprinkle roach powder on wick.Dip wick in denatured alcohol again.This stuff chews up the wicking material much faster than regular fuel, and it can be hard to get the color out.You can substitute strontium (very expensive) for roach powder to get red flames, and (I think) copper chloride to get blue flames.
The way most folks around here get green flames is with boric acid (roach powder) and denatured alcohol. Both available at your friendly neighborhood hardware store.Soak wick in denatured alcohol.Sprinkle roach powder on wick.Dip wick in denatured alcohol again.This stuff chews up the wicking material much faster than regular fuel, and it can be hard to get the color out.You can substitute strontium (very expensive) for roach powder to get red flames, and (I think) copper chloride to get blue flames.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
member
750 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
750 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
Another problem with potassium permanganate is that it may look nice and purple and friendly to touch, but it stains yours fingers brown. It looks like you've been inserting suppositories
*shakes his head at lowering the discussion so far*
Another problem with potassium permanganate is that it may look nice and purple and friendly to touch, but it stains yours fingers brown. It looks like you've been inserting suppositories
*shakes his head at lowering the discussion so far* Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I just dumped a bunch of KCl (potassium chloride) in a beaker, added some methanol, swirled it around and dropped a match in. It burned a pretty purple and seemed pretty soluable in the methanol. Be advised that it's not THAT much more purple than the pure methanol is blue. I burned a beaker of pure methanol next to it and it was clearly a different color but not enought if it was alone to say "OH MY GOD IT'S PURPLE!!!" Be careful using stuff with chlorine in it as you can generate chlorine gas (as seen in WWI) if the compound decomposes at high temperatures. Stay away from chlorates/chlorites...
I just dumped a bunch of KCl (potassium chloride) in a beaker, added some methanol, swirled it around and dropped a match in. It burned a pretty purple and seemed pretty soluable in the methanol. Be advised that it's not THAT much more purple than the pure methanol is blue. I burned a beaker of pure methanol next to it and it was clearly a different color but not enought if it was alone to say "OH MY GOD IT'S PURPLE!!!" Be careful using stuff with chlorine in it as you can generate chlorine gas (as seen in WWI) if the compound decomposes at high temperatures. Stay away from chlorates/chlorites...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
enthusiast
210 posts
Location: new zealand
210 posts
Location: new zealand
Posted:
bendyyoure a classic
bendyyoure a classic
member
17 posts
Location: Country NSW
17 posts
Location: Country NSW
Posted:
Well, I spent the other day testing out chemicals, and none worked. My wick is not looking too good. But it's my oldest staff, so it's not that bad. adamricehow did you get strontium, I've tried and I've had no luck. I know it is used in pyrotechnics, but no one is prepared to sell it to me.
NYCthanks, that saves me testing it out myself. It looks like I wont be using purple after all. still... a green flame should amaze enough people. I can only hope. but, then again, perhaps I should rely on my skill.....
Well, I spent the other day testing out chemicals, and none worked. My wick is not looking too good. But it's my oldest staff, so it's not that bad. adamricehow did you get strontium, I've tried and I've had no luck. I know it is used in pyrotechnics, but no one is prepared to sell it to me.
NYCthanks, that saves me testing it out myself. It looks like I wont be using purple after all. still... a green flame should amaze enough people. I can only hope. but, then again, perhaps I should rely on my skill..... poo-bah
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
Posted:
Blu--I personally have not gotten strontium. A fire-friend picked some up at a chemical supply shop. It was very expensive--something like $70/oz, IIRC. For all I know he had an "in" because he's a fire inspector for a living.
Blu--I personally have not gotten strontium. A fire-friend picked some up at a chemical supply shop. It was very expensive--something like $70/oz, IIRC. For all I know he had an "in" because he's a fire inspector for a living.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
member
16 posts
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
16 posts
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Posted:
As most pyros here, I have done the boric acid and denatured alcohol to get the green flame. Here is the scoop with Copper Sulfate (aka cupric sulfate)...it does work but the fumes are anti bueno; a friend of mine tried it and the fumes made him dizzy for a day or so, sooo...make sure you have a dequate ventilation and try not to breathe too much fumes. The strontium, I believe, did make red but it was reported to me that it was a wimpy red. If I remember correctly, when you use a chemical salt, you should dissolve it in a polar solution to ionize the salt...its the ions that produce the colors.
As most pyros here, I have done the boric acid and denatured alcohol to get the green flame. Here is the scoop with Copper Sulfate (aka cupric sulfate)...it does work but the fumes are anti bueno; a friend of mine tried it and the fumes made him dizzy for a day or so, sooo...make sure you have a dequate ventilation and try not to breathe too much fumes. The strontium, I believe, did make red but it was reported to me that it was a wimpy red. If I remember correctly, when you use a chemical salt, you should dissolve it in a polar solution to ionize the salt...its the ions that produce the colors.
member
17 posts
Location: Country NSW
17 posts
Location: Country NSW
Posted:
ionize???? crap, I don't know chemistry.I was told that it is the metal that produces the colour. It does not matter what the element is mixed with, as it will still produce the same coloured flame...also, I was told today that strontium is radioactive. Should I be worried?
ionize???? crap, I don't know chemistry.I was told that it is the metal that produces the colour. It does not matter what the element is mixed with, as it will still produce the same coloured flame...also, I was told today that strontium is radioactive. Should I be worried?
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
OK, so this is probably dumb but if you have a bonfire (or whatever) and chuck magazines on it they produce a very green flame. I'm guessing it's the ink that makes this but anyhoooo... Why not just wrap alot of mags around the wick?Ah, just realised this is dumb as they'll blow out.. Back to the drumming
OK, so this is probably dumb but if you have a bonfire (or whatever) and chuck magazines on it they produce a very green flame. I'm guessing it's the ink that makes this but anyhoooo... Why not just wrap alot of mags around the wick?Ah, just realised this is dumb as they'll blow out.. Back to the drumming
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
It was about midway through college that I realized that 70% of chemistry was just renaming simple phenomena with complicated names to sound smarter. (Shhhh! Don't tell!)Ionize = Dissolve/Break Apart the salt into Ions.Ion = The positive (metal) part or the negative (nonmetals) part of the salt.Salt = one of thousands of compounds with lots of positives stuck to a negatives, NOT just table salt.Yes, it is the metal (or first word) of the salt that produces the color but the anion (second word) can dictate how easily it dissolves in something and also the toxicity.
It was about midway through college that I realized that 70% of chemistry was just renaming simple phenomena with complicated names to sound smarter. (Shhhh! Don't tell!)Ionize = Dissolve/Break Apart the salt into Ions.Ion = The positive (metal) part or the negative (nonmetals) part of the salt.Salt = one of thousands of compounds with lots of positives stuck to a negatives, NOT just table salt.Yes, it is the metal (or first word) of the salt that produces the color but the anion (second word) can dictate how easily it dissolves in something and also the toxicity.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
.... Also be sure to use the word "phenomena" instead of "things" because it also makes you sound smarter.
.... Also be sure to use the word "phenomena" instead of "things" because it also makes you sound smarter.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
20 posts
Location: Oakland, CA
20 posts
Location: Oakland, CA
Posted:
Just out of curiosity I went to the Home depot to buy some boric acid and denatured alcohol but got scared because the boric acid (roach killer) contained only 40% boric acid and the rest was considered inert ingredients. I was concerned just to be on the safe side and was wondering if that product is exactly what all of you have used to achieve colored flame?
Just out of curiosity I went to the Home depot to buy some boric acid and denatured alcohol but got scared because the boric acid (roach killer) contained only 40% boric acid and the rest was considered inert ingredients. I was concerned just to be on the safe side and was wondering if that product is exactly what all of you have used to achieve colored flame?
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Very good idea to ask.
NO. I have here "707" brand 100% boric acid. One pound of it for $2.99 at my local grocery store. Actually it looks like this stuff is made in New York City so you probably cant find it where you are. But try to find 100% so you don't have to worry about what other toxic chemicals you're burning.
Fantastic question.
Very good idea to ask.
NO. I have here "707" brand 100% boric acid. One pound of it for $2.99 at my local grocery store. Actually it looks like this stuff is made in New York City so you probably cant find it where you are. But try to find 100% so you don't have to worry about what other toxic chemicals you're burning.
Fantastic question.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
20 posts
Location: Oakland, CA
20 posts
Location: Oakland, CA
Posted:
Thanks NYC I am glad I went with my instincts. I ended up tromping all over town finally finding a store clerk at the Hydroponics store who took pity on me and looked up chemical retailers in the phone book. I went into this run down building at the end of a dead end road that had a skull and cross bones on the front door. I walked up to the counter asked for and purchased some potassium sulfate to make purple/pink fire tonight. I will post tomorrow with pictures and information on how it went. I have made towel wicks and plan to dissolve the powder K2SO4 in denatured alcohol. If you have any comments or feedback it would be greatly appreciated!
Love and colored lights tonight ,
Laura (aka hairsmythe)
Thanks NYC I am glad I went with my instincts. I ended up tromping all over town finally finding a store clerk at the Hydroponics store who took pity on me and looked up chemical retailers in the phone book. I went into this run down building at the end of a dead end road that had a skull and cross bones on the front door. I walked up to the counter asked for and purchased some potassium sulfate to make purple/pink fire tonight. I will post tomorrow with pictures and information on how it went. I have made towel wicks and plan to dissolve the powder K2SO4 in denatured alcohol. If you have any comments or feedback it would be greatly appreciated!
Love and colored lights tonight ,
Laura (aka hairsmythe)
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