Forums > Social Discussion > Light foods - a spiritual diet

Posted: 12th Nov 2008
Is your friend going without corn and corn related products?

Posted: 12th Nov 2008
no, it's not really 'just' about that.. also not quite a "gluten free" diet... she's in the process of 'scanning' the individual fruits and vegetables in order to figure their respective properties (apart from the obvious ones)... it might sound stranger than it actually is

In relations to "gluten free" I noticed some friends of mine having interesting ideas about gluten "gluing" to the inside of intestines... I'm not so convinced about this being fact.

However, a "spiritual diet" would be on foods that won't "pull you down"...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 12th Nov 2008
Well, I lived in Buddhist communities for about 8 years, including as a cook for 4- always under close supervision of classically trained, traditional teachers.

We were vegetarian as that accorded with many of our Western beliefs.. our teachers thought that was fine and great but not essential... (most TIbetans, including monks eat meat)

We required not to cook with onions or garlic however, because they make you sleepy and smell bad!

SO far as 'light foods'- It is actually a very good idea to have food that grounds you whilst doing meditational practice, NOT to fast. (Tibetan) Buddhists do not at all recommend 'flying away' and zipping off to other realms etc as an object of meditational practice.

The slogan was... 'mind in the body, body on the cushion, cushion on the ground.'
There is one fasting based retreat, but that was highly specialised and supervised and was only for one day! It is also expplained to me as 'purifying by voluntarily doing what normally makes you sick (fasting) in order to have compassion for those who have no choice about it!

It's far more likely that people wig out and get what the Tibs call 'lung' or disordered energy- up to and including potential psychosis- through trying to fast, not be grounded in practice.
It is considered a serious issue. I knew many people in retreats who got overly spacey, high, 'flying' etc and it generally ended in tears. It feels good on one level, which is why a lot of anorexics get addicted to it, but is not where they are trying to get you. Avoiding getting too 'light, spacey, flying etc' was one reason meditators needed to have regular supervision from someone who knows the ropes.

Also the idea of karma-free food is dubious in the extreme (I originally wrote 'absurd' which is what my teacher would have called it by laughing out loud at anyone who would suggest such a thing) This has been discussed in another thread I remember. Food production-even if you grow it yourself, but particularly commercial production, involves the squashing of insects, destruction of bird nests, animal habitat, etcetc either directly through the production or in the process of transport. For sure, reduce any direct destruction as much as possible; but being grateful and humble around that, and conscious of our interconnectedness and endebtedness with others is infinitely more Buddhist than preening re delusions that one is karma-free. In classic Buddhism that would just be considered deepening ones ignorance/arrogance.

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

Posted: 12th Nov 2008
What I meant by the comment on corn is that the crops don't hold nutrients very well... meaning that if they're fertilised that nitrogen seeps into the water table, into rivers, surrounding soil, even into the air.

Nitrogen IS a powerful greenhouse gas.

Posted: 12th Nov 2008
Excellent post newgabe

Quote: For sure, reduce any direct destruction as much as possible; but being grateful and humble around that, and conscious of our interconnectedness and indebtedness with others is infinitely more Buddhist than preening re delusions that one is karma-free. In classic Buddhism that would just be considered deepening ones ignorance/arrogance.

In my ongoing quest to discover what classic Buddhism is all about I'm finding that separating "real" Buddhist" ideas from new age woo woo is more of a challenge than I expected.

I can understand the concept of "light" foods and if i were into meditation I most likely wouldn't have a burger at The Heart Attack Grill before engaging in it...for obvious reasons other than karmic ones.

Posted: 12th Nov 2008
*Thanks for saving me from writng a response New Gabe!*

Yeah, what she said!

seriously, you covered most of my point better than i could!

--But I do think some of it is a misunderstanding, that Tom is probably just using certain words we are responding to, that are not actually his friends( the buddhists) choice of words, in their own language... Would be interesting to find out!

I think seeking the high is something most serious buddhist practitioners avoid. But she/he may be trying to describe something and using a strange word. If you think about it, "detachment" a very typical Buddhist term, is not so disimilar to " flying free" If you were translation?

****Stout, I spent a lot of time as a Thai buddhist, in the temple. I had no preparation or understanding of what buddhism was before i entered the temple life. After, i tried to do some reading to get understanding of some of the terms and experiences in English ,mostly just so I could talk about my experience and awareness with others--and it took, oh, maybe ten years before any of it made sense using words! If you are serious about studying Buddhism, wanting to understand it, it may be that you have to just do it, a daily practice at least. A lot is learned through the practice, not the attempts we make at verbal or written dissemination of information.
good luck!

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

Posted: 12th Nov 2008
Excellent food... errm post indeed, Newgabe... Thanks for sharing your insights...

It reflects much of what my personal stance is and I would not advise self induced high-fly to anyone. Hence in this particular case I can see the (good) intent and the proper (internal) guidance = I got full trust in what she does on her account.

Stout, unfortunately I can't answer to your quest and I'm sceptic as to who could. We've been discussing this in another thread already and I would be very amazed, if the original version is preserved anyway.

I smell discussions about Buddhism principles round the corner... pls keep it

The humbleness, devotion and consciousness about the food consumed definitely is a great catalyst when it comes to the spiritual value of food. One can consume meat and still be a saint... (at least on my planet) We had an extensive discussion about vegetarianism and (high volume) carnivore, where the conclusion has been that the latter (undoubtedly) contributed more to (global) suffering than the latter. Hence if consumed with the initially mentioned mindset, little 'damage' to the spirit will occur even if meat is consumed (IMHO).

So much about that for now.

To get the loop: As far as "scooting off to other spiritual realms" is concerned I would not uniform claim that it is not advisable for anyone... Certainly it is not unusual for masters. And for people who are in contact with Dakinis and other higher beings, people who frequently travel to other (spiritual) worlds anyway, it can mean some acceleration to have the body maintained on a "higher" frequency...

In the particular case I am referring to, the concerned is a practitioner of Dzogchen Buddhism, which is closely related with many Tantra practices and therefore regarded as "highly superstitious and culty" in the West. In no way my aim is to judge or elaborate deeply on this one here.

In this case "scooting off" would be lesser "an object of meditational practice" but more the main objective of a certain meditational practice.

Originally Posted By: 'mind in the body, body on the cushion, cushion on the ground.'

Great proverb... in this particular case it would rather be named "carpet" than cushion and this carpet would be flying

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 12th Nov 2008
oops now it took me so long to word this out, that Andrea got before me...

100% understood that there is not just one language barrier, as English is my second language and I'm communicating to someone who also has English as her second one, which is not remotely even on my garbled level. So please take that into account.

From first hand experience I can claim that certain states of mind and abilities fully convinced me about the practices and further I have no doubt as in whether or not these realms do exist - regardless of what the West generally believes.

"Detachment" is one correct term but that is rather the vehicle than the destination. However I would like to add that eating "light" foods alone will not create any flying sensation, it might prepare the body for the experience but it's the mind that needs to be freed (and this is only attainable by deep meditational practice)...

It's rather late now and last night I've been kept awake by (real life) monkeys ravaging my garden... I shall close for now as to avoid (more) unnecessary confusion from my side.

Be well

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 12th Nov 2008
Fire Tom, if you are looking for information on light foods and a spiritual diet in Buddhism, then you might like to read the Mahayana Lankavatara Sutra.


Hi Stout,

Originally Posted By: StoutIn my ongoing quest to discover what classic Buddhism is all about I'm finding that separating "real" Buddhist" ideas from new age woo woo is more of a challenge than I expected.

I think the “woo woo” starts when people start getting swept up by, and literally carried away with Indian cosmology.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Posted: 13th Nov 2008
Well, there are a few different perspectives about what consitutes an acceptable spiritual diet, and the meat or no meat issue in particular. The Theravada approach is different than what you read in Mahayana Lankavatara Sutra, which is commonly thought to be a later writing. Some of the discussion around what the Buddha did and recommended himself can be found in the following
https://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/vegi.html
https://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/meat.html

I think in most cases where we have a choice, Buddhists practicing compassion do tend to avoid meat.Particularly in the west. But, as a nun, I did not have any choice over what i ate, or what amount. My teacher gave us what she felt appropriate.This was out of what was left after the monks had collected the alms, and eaten what they wanted! We got the leftovers! So much for womens rights Some days she would have a purpose to giving more or less, appealing food or horrific... It was not about personal preference, or my own judgements or tastes, likes or dislikes. I was in the process of becoming aware and breaking free of those patterns.

When in India,at various ashrams, I was told the garlic and onion family was to be avoided because it created heat in the body and stimulated sexual desires! I had not heard the version you stated, New Gabe! Making you smelly in a close quartered community sounds like a more common sense reason to be sure!

There is no doubt that different food create different sensations in the body. I would be very wary of using that to get a sensation like, "flying". Cults use food deprivation, then administration of sugary foods etc to manipulate euphoric sensations like that. I dont see it as having much to do with spiritual practice, really. I feel the same way about some breathing practices I encounter- er, yah, hyperventilation makes you light headed, and some people like that sensation, like the "high" I just dont get what makes that a spiritual experience? Just a differnt form of intoxicating oneself perhaps.

But doing a test of how one responds to certain foods, physically and energetically, would be a fascinating and valuable practice I am sure. I know some practitioners of chinese medicine do something like this, determining the properties and influences of various substances.

Certainly, over time, I have appreciated discovering what foods serve me best!
EDITED_BY: BansheeCat (1226558818)

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

Posted: 13th Nov 2008
Stone: thanks for the gentle input I would like to add that I have witnessed and experienced things and events (first hand) that exceed most of the Western belief systems. That might be what then turns into woo-hoo, when false masters try to appear as real ones... One needs to have a firm grip on... well apparently it's the other way round: one needs to have an open spirit to accept that - to separate the fake from the real is one of the greatest challenges I reckon.

All: what I aim at is lesser meant to be a diet that makes one holier-than-thou, as one that compliments spiritual practice(s)...

For example: bread contains a lot of starch (as potatoes and rice) and will put me to sleep when practicing meditation. Fruit on the other hand is more complimentary I find.

To elaborate my initial comment: I have had the blessing to witness events of clairvoyance and had the chance to verify first hand IRL... it's not a matter of belief - but of fact. So if such people tell me that they feel it's harder to attain such states of mind after the consumption of "heavy" foods, then I have no reason NOT to believe what they say.

The expression "light" foods serves two meanings in this context.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 13th Nov 2008
I find some foods more grounding than others, to be sure. often if people are doing Kundalini work,and raising to much energy without the experience of being able to suitable channel and support it, we have them go on a diet of grounding foods. Literally, root vegetables, and sometimes meat. These seem to draw energy downwards. Why, could not say, maybe it is a just a suggestion to the mind through association, who knows? Yeah Stout, thats a little "woo woo" of me but als practical, cause it works when people are too ungrounded, flighty, disconnected...

For me, quantity of food is also a factor in ability to meditate, i get sleepy or uncomfortable if i eat too much of just about anything before meditating. Not enough, and the meditation becomes about whaching stomach growls surface... lol

Primarily i just keep it simple when eating for or during for spiritual purposes/practices, remembering that garbage in is garbage out( eat quality when possible) , and dont let food take on too many roles other than nourishment in my life.

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

Posted: 13th Nov 2008
Quote:I think the “woo woo” starts when people start getting swept up by, and literally carried away with Indian cosmology.

Hi Stone, I get your meaning there.

Also I understand the need/want to embrace Indian cosmology as being ancient and therefore "tried and true"

Yikes..that Mahayana Lankavatara Sutra took me half an hour to get through ( at 5 am no less ) and I did think it the author was sperading a little thick. The sentiments are understnadable however it's sentiments like that that lead to these meat eaters vs vegetarian "discussions" we're all familiar with.

Posted: 13th Nov 2008
Hi Andrea..I'm slowly comint to terms between the need to "experience" Buddhism and the information I can get from simply talking about it. At this point I'm still unconvinced that I need to actually take up the practice as I feel I can gain understanding of "other" spiritual practices using written/verbal communication. I'm calling a part of tmy ongoing research.

Quote:Yeah Stout, thats a little "woo woo" of me but als practical, cause it works when people are too ungrounded, flighty, disconnected...

That might not be woo, after all fruits and some vegatables are mostly water and sugar and if someone is experiencing a sugar rush feeding them a starchy heavy foor like potatoes or a burger is definatly going to slow them down a little.

Posted: 13th Nov 2008
Originally Posted By: FireTom to separate the fake from the real is one of the greatest challenges I reckon.



Yes..it is. Also separating the idea of being open minded from the idea of being credulous is a difficult challenge in discussions on spirituality.

Posted: 13th Nov 2008
BansheeCat, the meat eating thing is a choice, but as you say “Buddhists practicing compassion do tend to avoid meat.” Ultimately, Buddhism is about compassion, which includes refraining from the violence of eating meat. Sure people make many excuses for eating meat, but in the end it’s about being non-violent.

Fire Tom if you if you are having trouble staying awake while meditating, then try getting more sleep. And hey, be careful with this stuff. Without the right training people can get psychotic. Requests for light food so people can get “high” while meditating send up danger signals to me.

Hi Stout, you could try the Buddhist Bible. It’s very good, and has the Lanka sutra without the meat eating chapter ; ) As far as the Indian cosmology goes, it seems to me, that a lot of it get's included in Buddhism, and people seem to get caught up Indian cosmology and loose the Buddhist path.


EDITED_BY: Stone (1226610162)

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Posted: 13th Nov 2008
Just a quick little of thread tangent, sorry guys:

I dont know Stout, if understanding can be achieved without consistent practice, to be honest.

It would be a bit like researching how it is to be a professional basketball player, without training sessions. Or learning to be an artist, without ever trying to apply the skills. Flat, I would say. I dont think you could really get much out of it. Like trying to understand all the effects of being a mountain climber in ones life, without ever climbing mountains. Hmn what other examples can i struggle with to make my point? lol. But the actual experiences are what build to understanding, not so much the concepts, though they may facilitate it.

One thing that makes Buddhism different than many so called new age Spiritual beliefs, is that for the most part, it is not about belief. Like Yoga, when done with committed intention, it is a series of practical practices: behaviours and actions that lead to the development of a different relationship in the world.One needs to try living that way in order to experience the effects.

Buddha did not really suggest much about faith or belief. He just outlined a series of fairly simple actions,or ways of being, that would create or cessate certain states. A lot of buddhism consists much more about trial and error, debate and discussion, than anything to do with belief systems. That is one reason why there are so many varied approaches; one is encouraged to explore and document what worksand what does not, and support others in finding and using those things too...

**sorry to go off topic Firetom!

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

Posted: 14th Nov 2008
are we now on track of another discussion about Buddhism, it's origins and which lineage carries the truthful content?

I would really appreciate it, if finally we could leave the ideological quarrels to the according threads...

Tantric practices root in a time way beyond Buddhism, attaining clairvoyance has been around long before the Buddha has been born... please guys, leave the new agey stuff and most importantly: acknowledge that "spiritual practice" does not automatically equal "practicing Buddhism".

I feel that a lot of the "woo-ism" comes from using Sanskrit terms, rather than their (western) equivalents... Saying "Tantra" just sounds more mystic, than using the expression "to use universal energies" (or even speaking of outright "magic"), same applies to "Yoga", rather than saying "to use certain techniques and rites to stretch one's body"... does it make sense?

Originally Posted By: StoutAlso I understand the need/want to embrace Indian cosmology as being ancient and therefore "tried and true"

Not only that... it's not as if the Buddha re-invented the wheel. Meditation and Yoga, Indian cosmology, Tantric practices and rites... much of this really seems so strange to the average western mind, only because the roman catholic church has successfully eliminated much of the ancient knowledge as "witchcraft" and mere "superstition". "Science" and "the age of enlightenment" played another important part in this. Point (for me) being that discernment is needed and to separate the idea of being "open minded" from the human tendency of being "credulous".

Personally I'm (still) a skeptic but had the chance to witness events first hand, this way (for me) it's not about being 'credulous' anymore. It has nothing to do with "having faith" but looking at prima-facie (solid) evidence.

Sorry that I can't share these experiences in such fashion with you that you really understand what I'm talking about.

The "karmic load" on meat and meat related products in opposition to vegetables (IMNSHO) is as much a myth as the "spiritual load" of pork vs. beef... I would claim that the (conscious and devoted) consumption of meat does not affect your spirituality - anyone who thinks otherwise is free to oppose my opinion. If you do, please accept that I'm as much entitled to my opinion on the subject, have lived a medium volume carnivore and a vegetarian lifestyle and now made my choice to be a flexetarian. Simple.

Thanks for the suggestion of getting more sleep to successfully practice meditation without snoozing, Stone - first of all I try listening to my body and take naps (if circumstances permit - by that you can see I'm still entangled in a conditioned lifestyle). I'm going to bed quite early but raise with sunrise - at the same time, feeling (and being) sleepy also has to do with "not drinking enough water"....

And this helps to get a little more back on track: Andrea, Garlic and Onion will stimulate your circulatory system and increase body heat, thus potentially fuel your sexual desire. As you're engaged in Tantric practices (as I assume, forgive me) you are aware that it's not the desire alone, but the way you work with this energy and how much you let it govern your actions, right?

Breathing techniques are popular amongst "Rebirthers" and all "Prana" related practices. Personally I had the chance to attend a course on Rebirthing with Leonard Orr and one of his close disciples. I perceived his personality to be deeply troubled, his technique very strong to the extent of even being violent. Hyperventilation has an intoxicating effect on the body and mind (higher Oxygen saturation of the blood) - again it's the attention or direction in which this energy is channeled that makes the difference.

I regard fasting (food deprivation) and other practices as to demonstrate the body that "mind is over matter", that it's the mind governing, exceeding very basic survival instincts. Including sleep deprivation, it is to prepare the body and mind for certain experiences... "Cults" use these (ancient) techniques for their own purpose (which is not necessarily in the disciples interest) - one reason why I am generally opposing all forms of "-isms" and cults to govern my life.

(thanks for keeping up with a lengthy post....)

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 14th Nov 2008
Hey there Tom. I think the thread went into Buddhism because you mentioned within the first five words that these were the practices your friend is doing. Dzogchen is an interesting and powerful aspect of Tibetan practice. If your friend is doing that (safely), no doubt she has an initiating lama. He/she is the one who should be advising on specifics of diet, and giving advice on the advisability/delusion potential of 'flying' places.
Cheers
Gabe

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

Posted: 14th Nov 2008
Hi Stone.

Thanks for the link to the Buddhist Bible. It's precisely that separating of Indian cosmology from the Buddhist path that I'm interested in. As I said over on the other thread, I have no quarrel with Buddhism as a workable, livable philosophy but some of the concepts that I find presented as Buddhism I do have a problem taking seriously.

Hi Andrea

I'm not so much interested in becoming a Buddhist as I am in learning what it's all about. I figure I have a pretty good grasp of what the intended "goal" of Buddhism is when it comes to adopting it as a lifestyle. I'm open to the idea that I may need these experiences to facilitate a greater understanding but for now, I'm going to keep trying without actually committing to practice. Yea...I suppose I'm being lazy here but part of my not wanting to commit to practice is my not wanting to waste anybody's time by projecting a facade that I'm into "converting" for lack of a better word.

I have lots of access to various Buddhist groups, but unfortunately none of their literature says "spectators welcome"

I did have a Buddhist buddy ( a month a year in an Indian Ashram for 15 years ) but he claims he's no longer a Buddhist and it's all a label and doesn't really want to talk about it.

Hi Tom

There wasn't really any other direction this thread could go, seeing as how it was addressing the karmic values of food. I propose that under western Buddhist philosophy that the karmic value of food plays only a small role in the much larger issue of doing no harm and may serve as one of those "feel good" practices that allows one to neglect other things in one's life that may be causing more harm.

For instance, the burning of fossil fuels.. or incurring unmanageable consumer debt. IMO it makes little sense to be "proud" of a vegetarian diet when someone's other lifestyle choices have them with an ecological footprint the size of Godzilla's...say by owning a yacht.

Does a tank of gas come with a karmic load ? It should, but i can understand how someone following "the ancient texts" might not acknowledge this, seeing fossil fuels weren't a problem when those texts were written. I just can't agree with it, that's all.

Posted: 14th Nov 2008
I thought it was not so much about karmic load as it was about whether some foods are grounding/pulling you down or light and let you float?

The example was potatoes, which are "heavy" and keep you down.

At least, that is how I understood the original post....

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Posted: 14th Nov 2008
I haven't read all the posts, but thought I'd pop my 2p in here!
Before I had my Reiki 1 and Reiki 2 attunements I went on a fruit juice fast for 3 days before each one.
After being attuned to the reiki energy i felt drawn to eating healthy foods, foods that left me feeling 'light!'

(however i'm back on the pie and mash now!) x

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

Posted: 14th Nov 2008
I know of a few diets, including the Jain one, in which the goal is to not destroy any living system.

So it's more than simply being a vegetarian. Milk and unfertilized eggs are OK because they do not harm the animal that gives them (assuming proper farming habits, free-ranging, etc.). But a potato or an onion requires killing the whole plant to eat, so they are also out.

So whatever vegetable that diet requires is always a fruit. You don't kill a cucumber plant by eating the cucumber and you don't kill a soybean by harvesting the bean.

I will warn, however, that I have seen "new-age" diets used as excuses to cover up eating disorders. A diet should not negatively affect your life. Fasting for many days at a time (more than 3) is generally not very salubrious, regardless of which monks have done it before. I've heard of patients who have wound up very sick with refeeding syndrome after such fasts. I also had a girl in my college co-op who used her "water fasts" to cover for her anorexia nervosa.

If you want to make a major change to your diet, make an appointment with a dietician to ensure that these diets have adequate vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, and amino acids.

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 16th Nov 2008
Thanks Doc... I've been afraid that everybody will start chatting about Buddhism now... and again.

The fact that my friend is studying Dzogchen is not the main issue. Fact of the matter is that spiritual practices have greatly and successfully been eradicated in the West by the roman catholic church and the inquisition. Which is why many have to turn to eastern philosophies if they are interested in these practices... Buddhism just happens to harbor many of these practices today but one could also turn to Hinduism or Sufism to gain these spiritual experiences... (amongst others)

The "karmic load" on foods is by no means a Buddhist issue (alone) - consider Muslims (pork) and Hindu (no meat), consider Hare Krishnas and tribes (in Australia) having taboo foods... IMHO a diet that requires "killing" will not necessarily affect your spirituality.

Spirituality is not affected by carbon footprints (look at spiritual teachers, who (have to) travel the world; make their disciples travel, even though the Internet would enable them to exclusively rely on video conferences).

This IMHO is new agey spiritual woo-hoo, created by projections of the the mind.

Back on topic: Earthy and starchy foods will pull you down, that would generally include vegetables (even though no killing is involved here), with only few exceptions.

"a diet" (of whatever kind) "should not affect your life" (negatively)

"eat healthy" (as in 'non-fast foods')

I guess these are the most important aspects of the whole issue.

Will elaborate more later as I don't want to scoot after my commitments.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 16th Nov 2008
Originally Posted By: FireTom

Spirituality is not affected by carbon footprints (look at spiritual teachers, who (have to) travel the world; make their disciples travel, even though the Internet would enable them to exclusively rely on video conferences).

This IMHO is new agey spiritual woo-hoo, created by projections of the the mind.



Yes it is...I made it up. I based it partly on the idea of minimising harm and partly on the "hippy" ideal of a deep connection with the natural world. At this point in time, the idea id proving to be a very tough sell, but 50 years from now, I'll go down in history as a pragmatic visionary who's ideas taught the world to consider the needs of the planet above their own personal convenience. ( I'm currently acepting gifts and donations though )

How's that for ego driven lunacy.

Eating healthy is more a mater of common sense than an spiritual issue, don't you think ?

Posted: 16th Nov 2008
Originally Posted By: Fire TomBack on topic: Earthy and starchy foods will pull you down, that would generally include vegetables (even though no killing is involved here), with only few exceptions.

So Fire Tom, I think I see your dilemma. You can’t eat vegies because they are too heavy, meat because of its karmic load and fruit because of it’s sugar content.

Perhaps you should consider becoming and airatarian

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Posted: 16th Nov 2008
Thanks for making me smile and the suggestions, guys

Stone - see that's the problem, sometimes (like me) you still "think" (too much), that leads to not see anything but the projection of your own brain. I well know how it (doesn't) works.

I already made my dietary choice, being a Flexitarian (which you could coin Omnivore - just with a different twist). However, that does include the consumption of fruit, meat and vegetables as well - depending on the situation and requirement.

Talking of "situation" and "requirement" - this is eggsactly what this thread is about: Certain foods that either enhance or hinder certain spiritual practices...

Just as certain herbs and spices are causing certain reactions in the body and mind, certain foods cause certain reactions.

IMO there is nothing wrong with the consumption of meat, as long as you make that conscious choice (or "as long as you make this choice conscious") and approach it in the right way.

There is nothing wrong with fasting either, as long as it serves the right purpose and is done in moderation. One may recall that even the Buddha lived the life of an ascetic (as to balance his previous lifestyle) to find his individual middle path.

Stout - I see your point of 'carbon footprint' and 'spirituality', but reckon you're missing the point of "right purpose".

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 17th Nov 2008
See, I believe (well I know for a fact) that all life involves loss of other life. Even if you're a Jain and walk around with a cloth over your mouth so you don't accidentally swallow flies, your immune system is still waging a constant battle against trillions of innocent bacteria that are just trying to eke out a living when some mean old white blood comes along and EATS them! How horrid!

I don't think that plants suffer. There's no reason they should be able to since suffering is nature's way of trying to get you to avoid a harmful stimulus. If there is no point to suffering because you can't do anything about it, then my feeling is that you don't suffer. So since a plant can't do anything about being pulled out of the ground, I don't think it is capable of feeling pain. Especially since it doesn't have neurons.

Then again, I can't prove to you that *I* would feel pain if you cut off my fingers one by one. Nor can you prove to me that you would. Or that the cow feels pain from the slaughterer's knife.

So I choose my diet so as to cause the least amount of harm I *practically* can do without causing harm to me.

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 17th Nov 2008
Originally Posted By: Doc LightningSee, your immune system is still waging a constant battle against trillions of innocent bacteria that are just trying to eke out a living when some mean old white blood comes along and EATS them! How horrid!


Well, there's that, and all the trillions of microorganisms that you kill when you clean something too.

But wait, all these spiritual diets were written before microorganisms were known to exist.

breatharinism

Posted: 17th Nov 2008
Fire Tom, I think perhaps we missed your point. What I get now, and I could be wrong, is that you have heard about the transcendental powers of meditation and would like to develop your meditation practice. If that’s the case, then I’d suggest starting a thread on meditation tips. Of which one could be diet. Good Luck

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh