A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
Written by: jeff(fake)
There is almost certainly variation which isn't understood yet but it is clear that the kind you are proposing, that some people have a medical response to -say- homeopathy whilst other do not, simply doesn't exist. Such a thing would be clearly demonstratable to the rest of the medical world who would be forced to accept it.
Written by:
This is simply an excuse for the failure of psuedoscientific procedures of any kind. You forget that you can make a test which looks at only one factor: Does it have any effect greater than a placebo?. There are medicines in use today which science has absolutely no idea how they work. It can however be shown that they do work. Many traditional chinese medicines can be shown to work with proper scientific tests, so why can't the psuedoscientic ones (even those that originated in the west) give anything other than a null result?
Written by:Nit-pick away. I still feel that some of your statements could have used more rationality; not that you care in the least.
Just nit-picking now, but they way you feel about my points will have no effect on whether they are right or not. Rational inquiry is the only route to objective truth.
Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
Written by: spherculist
eg. If i have a sore throat i'll drink hot honey and lemon. Honey is a natural antiseptic and i even went to a chemist once and they said the best thing was not to buy the products but to drink honey and lemon.
Now to me that's a simple 'alternative medicine' and it works very well.
I sometimes take lactobacillus ('friendly bacteria') for my poorly stomach. I tried to get them on prescription but couldn't. So is this an alternative medicine? Because they definitely help too. They are in your stomach anyway but some people have more than others.
What about a good massage instead of deep heat?
A nice hot bath with lavender oil instead of headache pills?
Exercise and healthy food instead of slimming pills?
Not to mention all the things that can be done with Aloe Vera...
I don't understand how anyone in their right mind can consider these things not to work???
And Jeff, the hygiene problem in hospitals is due to the over use of antibiotics.
m
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
Written by: spherculist
Oh cool, so the only thing we were arguing about was a different idea of what 'alternative' meant.
I mean it as 'something your doctor won't prescribe to me'
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: spherculist
Oh cool, so the only thing we were arguing about was a different idea of what 'alternative' meant.
You mean it as 'something which cannot be proven by scientific method' (forgive me if i'm putting words in your mouth)
Written by: sphericulist
Homeopathy certainly seems to have all but cured my terrible hayfever, reflexology has pointed out some health issues for me to deal with, orthodox medicine has helped me out, as have natural remedies.
Written by: onewheeldave
It just occurred to me that some unproven alternative treatments do have one characterisitc that would seem to justify their use in some circumstances...
Take situations where a patient has a minor infection that, in the old days, prior to the awareness of the damge caused by unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics; would have been dealt with with antibiotics, even though the condition would naturally dissapear without such treatment (perhaps taking a few days longer).
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: onewheeldave
However, that being the case, I believe it's accepted by the medical profession that they have no negative effects on health?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by: lightning
What happens when someone delays cancer treatment because they're busy taking megavitamin therapy?
Written by: OneWheelDave
Take situations where a patient has a minor infection that, in the old days, prior to the awareness of the damge caused by unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics; would have been dealt with with antibiotics, even though the condition would naturally dissapear without such treatment (perhaps taking a few days longer).
Written by: lightning
And not all of these therapies are safe.
Many herbal remedies have been found to have unsafe quantities of heavy metal contaminationin them.
Written by: OneWheelDave
......(this would not be true of all alternative medicines, for example, herbal remedies could well, in some cases, have a detrimental effect on health, as herbal remedies are basically just an alternative variety of pharmacuticals).
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: onewheeldaveWritten by: OneWheelDave
Take situations where a patient has a minor infection that, in the old days, prior to the awareness of the damge caused by unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics; would have been dealt with with antibiotics, even though the condition would naturally dissapear without such treatment (perhaps taking a few days longer).
Well, this is an interesting one. Let's take streptococcal pharyngitis (strep throat).
Don't treat it, it goes away in 3-4 days. Treat it, you maybe gain a day or two.
So why treat it?
Because if you don't, there's a risk of developing rheumatic fever. If you do treat it, the risk is *far* lower. Almost nil, in fact.
Most bacterial infections, once established, don't resolve on their own, however.-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: onewheeldave
All of that is perfectly compatible with a patient being given access to a homeopathic remedy, if the test is negative.
It may even have the positive effect of more people coming into the surgery and being given the test- currently, many of those who are inclined to use alternative medicines would be disinclined to go to a GP with a sore throat, even if a fever was present.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Boo x
I intend to live forever - so far, so good.
If it costs "a penny for your thoughts", but people give you their "two-pence worth", who is getting the extra penny?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Boo x
I intend to live forever - so far, so good.
If it costs "a penny for your thoughts", but people give you their "two-pence worth", who is getting the extra penny?
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
Written by:
I do consider why people are motivated to turn away from conventional medicines. My theory is that people often think "alternative" means better for their bodies, I think it is that kind of attitude that repels people from using conventional medication when it could benefit them. This is often not the case.
Written by:
....................However, what I have a problem with is alternative medicines which are not proven to help, or worse still actually proven that it doesn't help. I think a lot of stuff about these medicines (and I'm mainly talking about homeopathy as that's what I've looked into in relation to this) is really misleading.
..........................
I just think "alternative" medicines should have to prove their worth in the same way that "conventional" medicines do. This is because I think that there is a great deal of risk of harm if people are not given the chance to weigh all the facts.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: spherculist
6/10 Acupuncture / Acupressure (never had it, know little about it, know a guy who used acupressure a lot and told me it's excellent)
Contact juggling was invented by dung beetles.
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
Written by: spherculist
Science can neither prove nor disprove homeopathy.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
::: I LiKe pLeAsUrE sPiKeD wItH pAiN - MuSiC iS mY aErOpLaNe :::
Written by: jeff(fake)Written by: spherculist
Science can neither prove nor disprove homeopathy.
Quite the contrary. Science can both prove or dispove homeopathy, depending on whether it actually works or not. We have shown on this thread how anything having any kind of effect for any reason will be picked up in a double blind trial. Unless you are argueing that the universe somehow magically contrives in this one instance in all of space and time, defying all reason and logic, to twart mathamatical analyis then the only conclusion is that science can be used to prove or disprove homeopathy (if you are argueing for the magical solution, and I'm not sure you are, then frankly you are stupid). As it happens science has disproved homeopathy, but its adherents still cling to it, once and for all demonstrating Bejamin Franklin's famous quote:
"There are no bigger liers that the peddlers of snake oil, exept their customers."
I appreciate that you aren't being dishonest out of malicousness, but the net result is the same.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: jeff(fake)
I quite agree with you Dave. I admit I lose my cool sometimes when folks are making elementary errors which we've corrected time and time again.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Using the keywords [science v * nature] we found the following existing topics.