Forums > Social Discussion > it's my party and...
Login/Join to ParticipateStargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
or better "it's my thread and I can delete it if I want to"....
another one bites the dust
R.I.P Haiti? thread
or better "it's my thread and I can delete it if I want to"....
another one bites the dust
R.I.P Haiti? thread
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: DurbsYou all know you're more than welcome to have debates and arguements here, and you should all know the posting guidlines, but to re-iterate:
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
I think that if you follow the first two requirements to the letter that you can't guarantee #3 which you have highlighted and #4 will happen wether they know it or not. To complete the goal of fulfilling all four is almost impossible regardless of who you're talking to unless they have similar ideals to begin with. The balance is all messed up and the list barely allows ambivolence, let alone *gasp* negativity! 
If a mature section was just people over the age of 18 who don't have to censor their opinions and can drop the public relations job, I'd vote for it. LOL
Originally Posted By: willworkforfoodjnrHehe its a good thing you lot don't post on UKC your heads would explode...
Haha yeah they would faint and be traumatized on Ravelinks!
Originally Posted By: DurbsYou all know you're more than welcome to have debates and arguements here, and you should all know the posting guidlines, but to re-iterate:
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
I think that if you follow the first two requirements to the letter that you can't guarantee #3 which you have highlighted and #4 will happen wether they know it or not. To complete the goal of fulfilling all four is almost impossible regardless of who you're talking to unless they have similar ideals to begin with. The balance is all messed up and the list barely allows ambivolence, let alone *gasp* negativity!
If a mature section was just people over the age of 18 who don't have to censor their opinions and can drop the public relations job, I'd vote for it. LOL
Originally Posted By: willworkforfoodjnrHehe its a good thing you lot don't post on UKC your heads would explode...
Haha yeah they would faint and be traumatized on Ravelinks!
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Originally Posted By: FireTomthat would be the "retired members forum"... wait some time and it'll be available for you too
Because the Retired Members Forum brought about such amazing amounts of good will?
Originally Posted By: FireTomthat would be the "retired members forum"... wait some time and it'll be available for you too
Because the Retired Members Forum brought about such amazing amounts of good will?
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
GOLD Member
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posted:
Quote:I think that if you follow the first two requirements to the letter that you can't guarantee #3 which you have highlighted and #4 will happen wether they know it or not. To complete the goal of fulfilling all four is almost impossible regardless of who you're talking to unless they have similar ideals to begin with. The balance is all messed up and the list barely allows ambivolence, let alone *gasp* negativity
Actually no, if people are adults about issues and don't resort to mudslinging and name calling, it is very possible to Satisfy 'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?' and
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?' with out having the same opinion.
It is healthy for a community to debate hot issues and topics and does not mean you are not bettering friend ships. Think about your real life friends? Do you often debate topics that not every one agrees on? i know my friends do.
If every one just remembered that in these kind of debates it is not what you say it is the way you say it that really matters.
Quote:I think that if you follow the first two requirements to the letter that you can't guarantee #3 which you have highlighted and #4 will happen wether they know it or not. To complete the goal of fulfilling all four is almost impossible regardless of who you're talking to unless they have similar ideals to begin with. The balance is all messed up and the list barely allows ambivolence, let alone *gasp* negativity
Actually no, if people are adults about issues and don't resort to mudslinging and name calling, it is very possible to Satisfy 'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?' and
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?' with out having the same opinion.
It is healthy for a community to debate hot issues and topics and does not mean you are not bettering friend ships. Think about your real life friends? Do you often debate topics that not every one agrees on? i know my friends do.
If every one just remembered that in these kind of debates it is not what you say it is the way you say it that really matters.
I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />
GOLD Member
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posted:
Quote:And if some random just waltz's over and starts talking smack about the topic of debate you don't tell them to off?
No i would probably do what i would do in real life, Ignore and continue the discussions with the people who were being intelligible and polite. Also if their 'talking smack' is actually just their opinion on a topic and they are presenting it with out being attacking or rude then who are any of us to tell them off? everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Quote:For the most part there is no way to tell how anyone is saying anything unless you know the outside the net.
Exactly that is why people need to think harder about what they are writing before they post and if their post could be considered aggressive, rude or unfriendly
Also there are many ways to make the same point with or with out being unnecessarily rude or overly aggressive that is what i mean by 'it is not what you say but how you say it'.
This is the point i was making in my post. That people in a community can encourage friendship and contribute constructively to that community, while still holding opposing opinions on an issue, so long as post actually address the issue being discussed rather than moving to childish name calling.
EDITED_BY: ElectricBlue (1264556554)
Quote:And if some random just waltz's over and starts talking smack about the topic of debate you don't tell them to off?
No i would probably do what i would do in real life, Ignore and continue the discussions with the people who were being intelligible and polite. Also if their 'talking smack' is actually just their opinion on a topic and they are presenting it with out being attacking or rude then who are any of us to tell them off? everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Quote:For the most part there is no way to tell how anyone is saying anything unless you know the outside the net.
Exactly that is why people need to think harder about what they are writing before they post and if their post could be considered aggressive, rude or unfriendly
Also there are many ways to make the same point with or with out being unnecessarily rude or overly aggressive that is what i mean by 'it is not what you say but how you say it'.
This is the point i was making in my post. That people in a community can encourage friendship and contribute constructively to that community, while still holding opposing opinions on an issue, so long as post actually address the issue being discussed rather than moving to childish name calling.
EDITED_BY: ElectricBlue (1264556554)
I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: ElectricBlueActually no, if people are adults about issues and don't resort to mudslinging and name calling, it is very possible to Satisfy 'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?' and
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?' with out having the same opinion.
It is healthy for a community to debate hot issues and topics and does not mean you are not bettering friend ships. Think about your real life friends? Do you often debate topics that not every one agrees on? i know my friends do.
If every one just remembered that in these kind of debates it is not what you say it is the way you say it that really matters.
Actually there us a point of disagreement where people tend to not be close enough to be friends based on lack of common ground. I think you misread my point entirely. I'm trying to talk about how nothing offensive is said, there are two strong stances on a stalemate issue, and neither side is going to budge.
Was anybody necessarily offensive? No
Are people so different they may tend to not want a close relationship with the person they disagree with? No
Does it mean that they hate and despise each other? No
Should people be forced to be friends? No
Why? Because when it's fake it isn't friendship!
All I'm trying to say is that censorship can go to the point of creating fake identities, resentment, and also can reduce a difference of opinion into mudslinging. I think that's a pretty moderate, level headed assessment of a highly probable outcome.
Look at politics, cliques, and many other social constructs and tell me what is the lesser of the these two evil: Holding a gun to someone's head and telling them to play nice or doing the same thing and telling them to get lost? I think both are equally disgusting and vial.
I'm sure many wouldn't agree with me and some may make an unfavorable judgment about myself as an individual for that stance, but I think both ends of the spectrum are wrong and balance is the answer along with accepting that people who don't mesh well should be forced to be friends but perhaps it would develop better with some time and patience. These are things I feel quite strongly about and it's not very mature to tell people who they will associate with and how, that is being treated like a child and will breed discontent.
Originally Posted By: ElectricBlueActually no, if people are adults about issues and don't resort to mudslinging and name calling, it is very possible to Satisfy 'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?' and
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?' with out having the same opinion.
It is healthy for a community to debate hot issues and topics and does not mean you are not bettering friend ships. Think about your real life friends? Do you often debate topics that not every one agrees on? i know my friends do.
If every one just remembered that in these kind of debates it is not what you say it is the way you say it that really matters.
Actually there us a point of disagreement where people tend to not be close enough to be friends based on lack of common ground. I think you misread my point entirely. I'm trying to talk about how nothing offensive is said, there are two strong stances on a stalemate issue, and neither side is going to budge.
Was anybody necessarily offensive? No
Are people so different they may tend to not want a close relationship with the person they disagree with? No
Does it mean that they hate and despise each other? No
Should people be forced to be friends? No
Why? Because when it's fake it isn't friendship!
All I'm trying to say is that censorship can go to the point of creating fake identities, resentment, and also can reduce a difference of opinion into mudslinging. I think that's a pretty moderate, level headed assessment of a highly probable outcome.
Look at politics, cliques, and many other social constructs and tell me what is the lesser of the these two evil: Holding a gun to someone's head and telling them to play nice or doing the same thing and telling them to get lost? I think both are equally disgusting and vial.
I'm sure many wouldn't agree with me and some may make an unfavorable judgment about myself as an individual for that stance, but I think both ends of the spectrum are wrong and balance is the answer along with accepting that people who don't mesh well should be forced to be friends but perhaps it would develop better with some time and patience. These are things I feel quite strongly about and it's not very mature to tell people who they will associate with and how, that is being treated like a child and will breed discontent.
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: ElectricBlue
Also there are many ways to make the same point with or with out being unnecessarily rude or overly aggressive that is what i mean by 'it is not what you say but how you say it'.
This is the point i was making in my post. That people in a community can encourage friendship and contribute constructively to that community, while still holding opposing opinions on an issue, so long as post actually address the issue being discussed rather than moving to childish name calling.
I'm sorry but I can't agree with you and human history backs me up on probability. How many people holding opposing views that affect their beliefs, religion, affiliations, or say challenges their upbringings successfully just say "Yeah sure, although I believe this with all my heart you think I'm wrong but I should pretend that we don't have fundamental differences and go grab some food and catch a movie!" That never happens anywhere, especially the internet!
That doesn't mean that you can't treat that person with dignity and respect, but telling someone to have no other behaviors than positive friendship building traits that are based on a lie you're forced to tell is simply immoral.
Please tell me if that makes sense, I'm not abandoning my morals and remaining silent on this issue because I feel that it is oppression no one should face (especially the internet) and displays cult like behavior.
Originally Posted By: ElectricBlue
Also there are many ways to make the same point with or with out being unnecessarily rude or overly aggressive that is what i mean by 'it is not what you say but how you say it'.
This is the point i was making in my post. That people in a community can encourage friendship and contribute constructively to that community, while still holding opposing opinions on an issue, so long as post actually address the issue being discussed rather than moving to childish name calling.
I'm sorry but I can't agree with you and human history backs me up on probability. How many people holding opposing views that affect their beliefs, religion, affiliations, or say challenges their upbringings successfully just say "Yeah sure, although I believe this with all my heart you think I'm wrong but I should pretend that we don't have fundamental differences and go grab some food and catch a movie!" That never happens anywhere, especially the internet!
That doesn't mean that you can't treat that person with dignity and respect, but telling someone to have no other behaviors than positive friendship building traits that are based on a lie you're forced to tell is simply immoral.
Please tell me if that makes sense, I'm not abandoning my morals and remaining silent on this issue because I feel that it is oppression no one should face (especially the internet) and displays cult like behavior.
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
GOLD Member
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posted:
Quote:So you wouldn't take the time to throw some of your moral diatribes about in hopes to re-educate them?
Quite happy to Actually, because what i posted is my opinion and i am free to have and express it and i have done so with out being rude or aggressive.
There is nothing wrong with trying to show someone your point of view or try to so them you think they may be wrong but every one should be capable of doing so with out restoring to name calling and rudeness.
Regarding EpitomeOfNovice's point. It happens plenty i'm not saying every one needs to be best buddies but encouraging friendship and being best friends are two different things.
This forum is actually a really good example of exactly this happening. There have been plenty of heated discussions on controversial issues over the years for example read the thread about gun laws. But those people mostly post with out being aggressive and rude and on the flip side those same people will be chatting away in the poi or staff forums even though they have opposing positions on a fairly heated topic.
Just because some people in history have been unable to do these things does not mean we can not strive to have a happy diverse community with out compromising our morals. It is achievable because if it were not i'm sure the world we live in would be a hell of a lot worse than it is now.
Quote:So you wouldn't take the time to throw some of your moral diatribes about in hopes to re-educate them?
Quite happy to Actually, because what i posted is my opinion and i am free to have and express it and i have done so with out being rude or aggressive.
There is nothing wrong with trying to show someone your point of view or try to so them you think they may be wrong but every one should be capable of doing so with out restoring to name calling and rudeness.
Regarding EpitomeOfNovice's point. It happens plenty i'm not saying every one needs to be best buddies but encouraging friendship and being best friends are two different things.
This forum is actually a really good example of exactly this happening. There have been plenty of heated discussions on controversial issues over the years for example read the thread about gun laws. But those people mostly post with out being aggressive and rude and on the flip side those same people will be chatting away in the poi or staff forums even though they have opposing positions on a fairly heated topic.
Just because some people in history have been unable to do these things does not mean we can not strive to have a happy diverse community with out compromising our morals. It is achievable because if it were not i'm sure the world we live in would be a hell of a lot worse than it is now.
I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
Perhaps I'm having a slight language barrier because a person is lucky if they can count their friends on one hand...
Do you mean friends or acquaintances? There is a big difference to me in terminology...
Perhaps I'm having a slight language barrier because a person is lucky if they can count their friends on one hand...
Do you mean friends or acquaintances? There is a big difference to me in terminology...
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
GOLD Member
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810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posted:
What i am say is encouraging friendship or creating an environment where friendship can happen is not the same as saying everyone must be friends.
I suppose every one does have a different view of the term friend but to me a friend is somebody that i know socially and enjoy spending time with whether it be somebody who is my closest friend or somebody who i may only see to every know and then. So that might make things clearer regarding my point of view.
EDITED_BY: ElectricBlue (1264560851)
What i am say is encouraging friendship or creating an environment where friendship can happen is not the same as saying everyone must be friends.
I suppose every one does have a different view of the term friend but to me a friend is somebody that i know socially and enjoy spending time with whether it be somebody who is my closest friend or somebody who i may only see to every know and then. So that might make things clearer regarding my point of view.
EDITED_BY: ElectricBlue (1264560851)
I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />
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474 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Originally Posted By: ElectricBlue
No i would probably do what i would do in real life, Ignore and continue the discussions with the people who were being intelligible and polite.
And, by arguing against people arguing, are you not throwing your own opinion in on the matter too? I suppose you would like us all to be exactly like you and communicate exactly like you.
I suppose that makes as much sense as someone clicking the notify button on an argument that they were not a part of. Everyone has the right to express their opinion only in the ways that I percieve to be correct.
I agree with you in most part, that there is no need to resort to being overtly rude, but as this topic is about the haiti topic, I dont recall actual name calling being thrown about in the deleted thread, unless there is something that I too missed.
There certainly was heated discussion, but are we promoting the attitude that you are not allowed to stick to your convictions for the sake of someones hurt feelings if they disagree with you? If your a person that is that easily hurt then how do you go in the real world?
which leads me to my next point. If we allow ourselves to pander to people that post uninformed or plainly wrong things on the internet, by making that ability enforced and sacrosanct then are we not promoting negative behaivour in RL? We are setting a poor example of how communication works in RL if all passionate debates and expressions of opinion are censored.
There is a line as to what should be posted, but that is no excuse for deleting or notifying posts that edge that line, only the ones that cross it.
Originally Posted By: ElectricBlue
No i would probably do what i would do in real life, Ignore and continue the discussions with the people who were being intelligible and polite.
And, by arguing against people arguing, are you not throwing your own opinion in on the matter too? I suppose you would like us all to be exactly like you and communicate exactly like you.
I suppose that makes as much sense as someone clicking the notify button on an argument that they were not a part of. Everyone has the right to express their opinion only in the ways that I percieve to be correct.
I agree with you in most part, that there is no need to resort to being overtly rude, but as this topic is about the haiti topic, I dont recall actual name calling being thrown about in the deleted thread, unless there is something that I too missed.
There certainly was heated discussion, but are we promoting the attitude that you are not allowed to stick to your convictions for the sake of someones hurt feelings if they disagree with you? If your a person that is that easily hurt then how do you go in the real world?
which leads me to my next point. If we allow ourselves to pander to people that post uninformed or plainly wrong things on the internet, by making that ability enforced and sacrosanct then are we not promoting negative behaivour in RL? We are setting a poor example of how communication works in RL if all passionate debates and expressions of opinion are censored.
There is a line as to what should be posted, but that is no excuse for deleting or notifying posts that edge that line, only the ones that cross it.
sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: ElectricBlue
Just because some people in history have been unable to do these things does not mean we can not strive to have a happy diverse community with out compromising our morals. It is achievable because if it were not i'm sure the world we live in would be a hell of a lot worse than it is now.
It was "a hell of a lot worse" go back a hundred years, if you really want to be mortified go back 2000 years or 3000 years. I admire your optimism and that is a wonderful trait to have, but what your speaking of is very utopian and the pressure to force that is all I'm speaking out (slightly) against. I feel balance and allowing people and issues some time, mistakes, and a chance is much better than "preaching" (for lack of a better word) a message that can be misinterpreted easily.
I know for a fact that I have made many posts without any name calling or personal attacks where I have been pushed into dishing one out due to passive aggression and a mob mentality on here. This doesn't occur on other uncensored bulletin boards I'm on because that pressure isn't there and it tends to be much more peaceful due to people coming together with the ability to speak freely.
I have never been treated as badly on Ravelinks for having an opinion as I have on here by some people. I think the cliquish nature of this forum plus the language barrier becomes an issue. It's like get on board and be a poser and pretend to love everyone or quit and go home. It's intimidating and uncool, I blame it on censorship that includes social pressure.
Originally Posted By: ElectricBlue
Just because some people in history have been unable to do these things does not mean we can not strive to have a happy diverse community with out compromising our morals. It is achievable because if it were not i'm sure the world we live in would be a hell of a lot worse than it is now.
It was "a hell of a lot worse" go back a hundred years, if you really want to be mortified go back 2000 years or 3000 years. I admire your optimism and that is a wonderful trait to have, but what your speaking of is very utopian and the pressure to force that is all I'm speaking out (slightly) against. I feel balance and allowing people and issues some time, mistakes, and a chance is much better than "preaching" (for lack of a better word) a message that can be misinterpreted easily.
I know for a fact that I have made many posts without any name calling or personal attacks where I have been pushed into dishing one out due to passive aggression and a mob mentality on here. This doesn't occur on other uncensored bulletin boards I'm on because that pressure isn't there and it tends to be much more peaceful due to people coming together with the ability to speak freely.
I have never been treated as badly on Ravelinks for having an opinion as I have on here by some people. I think the cliquish nature of this forum plus the language barrier becomes an issue. It's like get on board and be a poser and pretend to love everyone or quit and go home. It's intimidating and uncool, I blame it on censorship that includes social pressure.
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
^^^
That is an immature assumption considering many issues for debate aren't even PG by nature like abortion, human rights, genocide, doctrine/religion... The list goes on and on... I don't think a sociology class or even what I read for literature in high school can be knocked down to PG by the MPAA standards atleast!LOL
EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1264561900)
EDIT_REASON: cause i thought of more
^^^
That is an immature assumption considering many issues for debate aren't even PG by nature like abortion, human rights, genocide, doctrine/religion... The list goes on and on... I don't think a sociology class or even what I read for literature in high school can be knocked down to PG by the MPAA standards atleast!LOL
EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1264561900)
EDIT_REASON: cause i thought of more
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
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Posted:
yeah, apparantly all adults ever do is sex and swear.
I think sometimes the whole issue of a PG forum is overemphasised, its not G. It is parental guidence recommended. I mean come on, how much sexual inuendos are in disney movies?
yeah, apparantly all adults ever do is sex and swear.
I think sometimes the whole issue of a PG forum is overemphasised, its not G. It is parental guidence recommended. I mean come on, how much sexual inuendos are in disney movies?
sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.
GOLD Member
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posted:
I was not saying don't argue your own point of view.
I, just like you was voicing my opinion. Which was, That i belive that the hop forum guidelines that say
'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?' and
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Can be adhered to with out compromising your own personal opinion or morals and that discussion can be beneficial to all concerned even if every one does not agree, It is healthy to argue but there is a difference between a healthy argument and name calling and rudeness just because somebody has an apposing opinion.
This thread is mostly a good example of my opinion. We all seem to have different opinions on the topic of thread deletion and the forum guidelines and we are debating mostly with out personal attacks and rudeness.
I do agree that it is not ok to have to hold in your opinion because someone maybe offended. I also feel that it would not be ok to delete a post just because somebody was offended by somebody else having an opposing view. But i also feel there is a difference between posting an opposing view in a discussion and aggressive attacking another person just for posting their opinion.
Also i just wanted to say that my opinion, that i have just stated was in general and in reply to the post first discussing the forum guidelines and their merits, not in direct relation to posts on the Haiti thread directly or the problem with the missing post.
Blue
EDITED_BY: ElectricBlue (1264562716)
I was not saying don't argue your own point of view.
I, just like you was voicing my opinion. Which was, That i belive that the hop forum guidelines that say
'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?' and
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Can be adhered to with out compromising your own personal opinion or morals and that discussion can be beneficial to all concerned even if every one does not agree, It is healthy to argue but there is a difference between a healthy argument and name calling and rudeness just because somebody has an apposing opinion.
This thread is mostly a good example of my opinion. We all seem to have different opinions on the topic of thread deletion and the forum guidelines and we are debating mostly with out personal attacks and rudeness.
I do agree that it is not ok to have to hold in your opinion because someone maybe offended. I also feel that it would not be ok to delete a post just because somebody was offended by somebody else having an opposing view. But i also feel there is a difference between posting an opposing view in a discussion and aggressive attacking another person just for posting their opinion.
Also i just wanted to say that my opinion, that i have just stated was in general and in reply to the post first discussing the forum guidelines and their merits, not in direct relation to posts on the Haiti thread directly or the problem with the missing post.
Blue
EDITED_BY: ElectricBlue (1264562716)
I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />
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Posted:
if I think that someone is acting like an idiot, Im going to tell them. I am not calling them an idiot, just what they posted.
'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?'
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
none of these will be served by being dishonest, worse it will mean that the friendships I am forming on this site will be built on a foundation of lies. There seems to be a lot of people on this site that is unable to deal with conflict.
if I think that someone is acting like an idiot, Im going to tell them. I am not calling them an idiot, just what they posted.
'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?'
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
none of these will be served by being dishonest, worse it will mean that the friendships I am forming on this site will be built on a foundation of lies. There seems to be a lot of people on this site that is unable to deal with conflict.
sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: WoodlandApple
none of these will be served by being dishonest, worse it will mean that the friendships I am forming on this site will be built on a foundation of lies. There seems to be a lot of people on this site that is unable to deal with conflict.
I too find this most alarming and think it's very counterproductive and shouldn't be enabled nor encouraged.
Originally Posted By: WoodlandApple
none of these will be served by being dishonest, worse it will mean that the friendships I am forming on this site will be built on a foundation of lies. There seems to be a lot of people on this site that is unable to deal with conflict.
I too find this most alarming and think it's very counterproductive and shouldn't be enabled nor encouraged.
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
This thread is full of awesome constructive discussion and ideas - thanks people!
This thread is full of awesome constructive discussion and ideas - thanks people!
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Without having thoroughly read each and every of the last posts:
Whilst we should try to adhere to HoP posting guidelines, it is simply impossible to fulfill all requirements at the same time. IF a post is the truth (or at least what I genuinely believes the truth to be) - it automatically is fair and beneficial to all concerned. IF a post is erroneous, someone else is to counter it (and should present evidence and ideally links to this evidence).
But even if all these guidelines are being fulfilled, it might not help building goodwill and better friendships... some people can't face the truth, have poor arguments and simply resent to reason.
This is not depending on the individual but quite often on the topic. I can be arguing very reasonable when it comes to HIV (prevention) but might have a problem keeping the cool when it comes to the right of bearing arms... Then again it depends on whether or not my cat is alive or has just gotten shot by the apprentice sniper next door.
IMO the Haiti thread should not have been deleted entirely but (if necessary) individual (offensive) posts should have been removed.
WA: it might not necessarily be that some people are incapable of conflict management - maybe they are not willing to because this is the internet and they don't have to. OR maybe they try and just don't get heard or their attempts noticed.
On my part I noted that (in my opinion) one member seems to harbor serious grudges against another one and I addressed the same. I felt that it has not necessarily been the content but the way in which it got put. I.e. it might be true that a particular argument/statement has been based on emotions alone and would not stand validation based on facts.
Now I could say
a) "Sorry dear, but you know that this statement is simply not true (based on this and that fact to which I link right here)"
or I can say
b) "You're such an immature bitch - get out of the gene-pool .... yaddayaddda"
I myself am guilty as charged and often slap my truth into other peoples faces like a wet towel rather than holding it like a warm coat in a cold winters night to slip into.
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1264590953)
EDIT_REASON: point being made more easy
Without having thoroughly read each and every of the last posts:
Whilst we should try to adhere to HoP posting guidelines, it is simply impossible to fulfill all requirements at the same time. IF a post is the truth (or at least what I genuinely believes the truth to be) - it automatically is fair and beneficial to all concerned. IF a post is erroneous, someone else is to counter it (and should present evidence and ideally links to this evidence).
But even if all these guidelines are being fulfilled, it might not help building goodwill and better friendships... some people can't face the truth, have poor arguments and simply resent to reason.
This is not depending on the individual but quite often on the topic. I can be arguing very reasonable when it comes to HIV (prevention) but might have a problem keeping the cool when it comes to the right of bearing arms... Then again it depends on whether or not my cat is alive or has just gotten shot by the apprentice sniper next door.
IMO the Haiti thread should not have been deleted entirely but (if necessary) individual (offensive) posts should have been removed.
WA: it might not necessarily be that some people are incapable of conflict management - maybe they are not willing to because this is the internet and they don't have to. OR maybe they try and just don't get heard or their attempts noticed.
On my part I noted that (in my opinion) one member seems to harbor serious grudges against another one and I addressed the same. I felt that it has not necessarily been the content but the way in which it got put. I.e. it might be true that a particular argument/statement has been based on emotions alone and would not stand validation based on facts.
Now I could say
a) "Sorry dear, but you know that this statement is simply not true (based on this and that fact to which I link right here)"
or I can say
b) "You're such an immature bitch - get out of the gene-pool .... yaddayaddda"
I myself am guilty as charged and often slap my truth into other peoples faces like a wet towel rather than holding it like a warm coat in a cold winters night to slip into.
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1264590953)
EDIT_REASON: point being made more easy
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
268 posts
Location: In my own head, United Kingdom
Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
268 posts
Location: In my own head, United Kingdom
Posted:
I go to sleep and look what happens.
I cant be bothered to read them all right now, just to say
A friend is someone who knows everything about you and still likes you.
I go to sleep and look what happens.
I cant be bothered to read them all right now, just to say A friend is someone who knows everything about you and still likes you.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Originally Posted By: WoodlandApplenone of these will be served by being dishonest, worse it will mean that the friendships I am forming on this site will be built on a foundation of lies. There seems to be a lot of people on this site that is unable to deal with conflict.
Now that's cutting to the chase.
Originally Posted By: WoodlandApplenone of these will be served by being dishonest, worse it will mean that the friendships I am forming on this site will be built on a foundation of lies. There seems to be a lot of people on this site that is unable to deal with conflict.
Now that's cutting to the chase.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
I agree with the general sentiment in this thread that it's not about whether it's the "truth" or the like, or even difference of opinion, but all about how it's put.
Relationship and the like are made all-the-more fun through different opinions because that is how we learn new ways to view the world. Even if we don't choose to adopt that view, the learning of it is a good thing.
But to belittle people because of the difference doesn't foster relationships and is even less likely to make people see if from a different view if the different view comes across as hostile.
I remember distinctly a thread on here a few years back where I was on the fence and enjoying having a rather "agnostic" sort of view and reading what everyone had to say while taking in points from both sides. However one side then jumped down the throat of another and started belittling that side and questioning their intelligence. I then immediately took sides in the debate because I hated seeing someone being treated so poorly.
I jumped down from the fence, not because of "truth", not because of opinion, but because of feelings and human integrity.
I think that too often on the internet people forget that there is a real person on the other side of the keyboard. A real person with thoughts, feelings and emotions. Often with a personal reason or experience behind whatever they are saying. HoP is very good with this the vast majority of the time, but sometimes instances do appear where people forget that.
I agree with the general sentiment in this thread that it's not about whether it's the "truth" or the like, or even difference of opinion, but all about how it's put.
Relationship and the like are made all-the-more fun through different opinions because that is how we learn new ways to view the world. Even if we don't choose to adopt that view, the learning of it is a good thing.
But to belittle people because of the difference doesn't foster relationships and is even less likely to make people see if from a different view if the different view comes across as hostile.
I remember distinctly a thread on here a few years back where I was on the fence and enjoying having a rather "agnostic" sort of view and reading what everyone had to say while taking in points from both sides. However one side then jumped down the throat of another and started belittling that side and questioning their intelligence. I then immediately took sides in the debate because I hated seeing someone being treated so poorly.
I jumped down from the fence, not because of "truth", not because of opinion, but because of feelings and human integrity.
I think that too often on the internet people forget that there is a real person on the other side of the keyboard. A real person with thoughts, feelings and emotions. Often with a personal reason or experience behind whatever they are saying. HoP is very good with this the vast majority of the time, but sometimes instances do appear where people forget that.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Ok yes, that is a good point
And I'm completely loving your posts in this thread to keep it all at an appropriate level of insane
Ok yes, that is a good point
And I'm completely loving your posts in this thread to keep it all at an appropriate level of insane
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Originally Posted By: This Jaded FleshAnd we have a mod that can see no other use for a mature forum other than sex and swearing... Such sadness.
Le sigh.
It's all about context.
"Give me a mature section... and I'll show you how to build goodwill!"
Hence my "sex and swearing" comment. Don't read any more than that into it.
Give us some examples of what would go in a mature section and we'll take it from there.
Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNovice^^^
That is an immature assumption considering many issues for debate aren't even PG by nature like abortion, human rights, genocide, doctrine/religion... The list goes on and on... I don't think a sociology class or even what I read for literature in high school can be knocked down to PG by the MPAA standards atleast!
Why should "abortion, human rights, genocide, doctrine/religion" not be discussed in a PG forum? What age limit are you intending to use here? Over 18? Because under 18s don't need to know about abortion? Or they don't get to discuss human rights or political matters?
Over 16?
How is this enforced anyway?
I can't think of any topics that can't be discussed on the HoP boards (without stretching into bad taste) if people use language properly.
Doesn't PG mean "General viewing but some scenes may be unsuitable for young children"?
Anyway, you're all having far too much fun up there on your soap boxes and high horses, so do carry on
Originally Posted By: This Jaded FleshAnd we have a mod that can see no other use for a mature forum other than sex and swearing... Such sadness.
Le sigh.
It's all about context.
"Give me a mature section... and I'll show you how to build goodwill!"
Hence my "sex and swearing" comment. Don't read any more than that into it.
Give us some examples of what would go in a mature section and we'll take it from there.
Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNovice^^^
That is an immature assumption considering many issues for debate aren't even PG by nature like abortion, human rights, genocide, doctrine/religion... The list goes on and on... I don't think a sociology class or even what I read for literature in high school can be knocked down to PG by the MPAA standards atleast!
Why should "abortion, human rights, genocide, doctrine/religion" not be discussed in a PG forum? What age limit are you intending to use here? Over 18? Because under 18s don't need to know about abortion? Or they don't get to discuss human rights or political matters?
Over 16?
How is this enforced anyway?
I can't think of any topics that can't be discussed on the HoP boards (without stretching into bad taste) if people use language properly.
Doesn't PG mean "General viewing but some scenes may be unsuitable for young children"?
Anyway, you're all having far too much fun up there on your soap boxes and high horses, so do carry on
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
Well I'm glad you asked that Durbs and I'd be most happy to answer!
I used those topics as examples because conversations debating the facts often go to the realm where the 4 rules of the FAQ do not meld together as they are supposed to and people get extremely defensive and offended because of their stance regardless of how civil and politically correct the opposition may be. I've noticed like some others have said there are many overly sensitive people who react to a debate as though someone took a swing at them and the issues I listed as examples tend to bring forth challenging of beliefs and stances which does surpass the "PG" level and historically tears people apart.
I'm only advocating a bit more open-mindedness and patience with people working out disputes. On the thread that was deleted Woodland Apple and myself had a pretty firey looking debate going on only because of the American stereotype that he has learned and my stating facts about what I see everyday in the lives of the average American for my area. Without people talking about things from experience and working out misunderstandings there is no community or moving forward, but it seems regardless of how socially conscious we tried to be several notifications were sent on a thread where it wasn't warranted. People do come on here are argue without facts or truth which is requirement #1 and ignorance is normally quite offensive, but when the truth is told it's considered offensive no matter how it is stated. That is baffling to me.
The Haiti thread was one of the most civil threads that turned productive with strong stances I have seen since being on here, but somehow it was on a watch list because of people who are IMO way too easily offended or who lack just cause to start a serious inquiry about infractions. So I wouldn't call it so much of being on "my high horse" but more of a plea for common sense and freedom of speech with clear guidelines so this little snafu doesn't happen again.
I'm also waiting for my PM to be replied to from the person who requested it and makes my HoP life a living hell, but somehow it's wrong for me to call out her post let alone that the post came from a person who could be incorrect. Not her, but her posts that are a representation of her. She has made remarks on this thread that I could notify as "fighting words" and "startin' shiznit", but somehow it's okay for some to speak in an antagonistic manner and not others regardless of how they word themselves to keep it to the point. Asking me to build a friendship with someone who thinks they are better than me and treats me like a 2nd class citizen or scapegoat is just wrong so why isn't she disciplined? This is just an example of the flaw in the system and things that slide by due to seeming popularity.
Without clear guidelines that are reasonable people's toes will be stepped on while others seemingly get favoritism. I don't believe in radical extremism, but it exists without a fair and balanced look at content explored versus the "rules" and where said content is bound to go.
Did that make sense, I hope it did because very few people around here get the point of what I'm saying and take it in contexts I did not intend. Mistakes happen and that's cool, but they do start drama at times and you can only expect so much from the empathic lacking medium of text and emoticons.
Well I'm glad you asked that Durbs and I'd be most happy to answer!
I used those topics as examples because conversations debating the facts often go to the realm where the 4 rules of the FAQ do not meld together as they are supposed to and people get extremely defensive and offended because of their stance regardless of how civil and politically correct the opposition may be. I've noticed like some others have said there are many overly sensitive people who react to a debate as though someone took a swing at them and the issues I listed as examples tend to bring forth challenging of beliefs and stances which does surpass the "PG" level and historically tears people apart.
I'm only advocating a bit more open-mindedness and patience with people working out disputes. On the thread that was deleted Woodland Apple and myself had a pretty firey looking debate going on only because of the American stereotype that he has learned and my stating facts about what I see everyday in the lives of the average American for my area. Without people talking about things from experience and working out misunderstandings there is no community or moving forward, but it seems regardless of how socially conscious we tried to be several notifications were sent on a thread where it wasn't warranted. People do come on here are argue without facts or truth which is requirement #1 and ignorance is normally quite offensive, but when the truth is told it's considered offensive no matter how it is stated. That is baffling to me.
The Haiti thread was one of the most civil threads that turned productive with strong stances I have seen since being on here, but somehow it was on a watch list because of people who are IMO way too easily offended or who lack just cause to start a serious inquiry about infractions. So I wouldn't call it so much of being on "my high horse" but more of a plea for common sense and freedom of speech with clear guidelines so this little snafu doesn't happen again.
I'm also waiting for my PM to be replied to from the person who requested it and makes my HoP life a living hell, but somehow it's wrong for me to call out her post let alone that the post came from a person who could be incorrect. Not her, but her posts that are a representation of her. She has made remarks on this thread that I could notify as "fighting words" and "startin' shiznit", but somehow it's okay for some to speak in an antagonistic manner and not others regardless of how they word themselves to keep it to the point. Asking me to build a friendship with someone who thinks they are better than me and treats me like a 2nd class citizen or scapegoat is just wrong so why isn't she disciplined? This is just an example of the flaw in the system and things that slide by due to seeming popularity.
Without clear guidelines that are reasonable people's toes will be stepped on while others seemingly get favoritism. I don't believe in radical extremism, but it exists without a fair and balanced look at content explored versus the "rules" and where said content is bound to go.
Did that make sense, I hope it did because very few people around here get the point of what I'm saying and take it in contexts I did not intend. Mistakes happen and that's cool, but they do start drama at times and you can only expect so much from the empathic lacking medium of text and emoticons.
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
three quick points.
1) A few years ago on this board people did manage to stick to the supposedly 'impossible to reconcile' posting guidelines, people who have been on the boards for a few years or more would hopefully remember that. I know that some of the people who are posting on this thread have in the past been both supported by these guidelines, and occasionally had a rap on the knuckles in settling disputes around their interpretation. If you want to make the argument that the web is more antagonistic than it used to be and so the posting guides are out-moded - go for it
2) Please everyone don't get your knickers in a knot over the Haiti thread deletion, it was an honest mistake, there is no conspiracy to gag the board. Speaking for myself only, I can say that I was enjoying the honest and thorough debate - its why we established the social discussion forum in the first place.
3) All topics are up for discussion in this forum do a search on most of the above listed topics and you will probably find a thorough discussion on it. I don't think we need a mature forum, as long as the discussions are conducted with tact and diplomacy and don't overtly condone illegal activities and the like (rules you would find on most websites) you will be fine.
EDITED_BY: Pyrolific (1264634575)
three quick points.
1) A few years ago on this board people did manage to stick to the supposedly 'impossible to reconcile' posting guidelines, people who have been on the boards for a few years or more would hopefully remember that. I know that some of the people who are posting on this thread have in the past been both supported by these guidelines, and occasionally had a rap on the knuckles in settling disputes around their interpretation. If you want to make the argument that the web is more antagonistic than it used to be and so the posting guides are out-moded - go for it
2) Please everyone don't get your knickers in a knot over the Haiti thread deletion, it was an honest mistake, there is no conspiracy to gag the board. Speaking for myself only, I can say that I was enjoying the honest and thorough debate - its why we established the social discussion forum in the first place.
3) All topics are up for discussion in this forum do a search on most of the above listed topics and you will probably find a thorough discussion on it. I don't think we need a mature forum, as long as the discussions are conducted with tact and diplomacy and don't overtly condone illegal activities and the like (rules you would find on most websites) you will be fine.
EDITED_BY: Pyrolific (1264634575)
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: Pyrolific
2) Please everyone don't get your knickers in a knot over the Haiti thread deletion, it was an honest mistake, there is no conspiracy to gag the board. Speaking for myself only, I can say that I was enjoying the honest and thorough debate - its why we established the social discussion forum in the first place.
I appreciate this very much, I hope the post in particular that I notified on that thread did come to your attention as it was out of line, but might I ask how the debate was interpreted as "heated" and "being monitored" as was described by Durbs?
I thought a ton of progress and good use of debate was on the thread, but alas it's gone so time for other things. I just think that many things get screwed up when posts are typed because of the medium so slackness and forgiveness by mods is crucial, if it's an honest mistake surely you can see how that could look like a conspiracy.
It's all good and technically I'm still a newb here so please be patient. Such insanity doesn't happen where I mod on another board.
(just kidding, but the rules said I had to put some emoticon there if there's a possibility of something sounding like a slam or a silly poke or something... wow this is complicated! )
EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1264636994)
EDIT_REASON: thought something may be perceived as contoversial so followed FAQ to letter
Originally Posted By: Pyrolific
2) Please everyone don't get your knickers in a knot over the Haiti thread deletion, it was an honest mistake, there is no conspiracy to gag the board. Speaking for myself only, I can say that I was enjoying the honest and thorough debate - its why we established the social discussion forum in the first place.
I appreciate this very much, I hope the post in particular that I notified on that thread did come to your attention as it was out of line, but might I ask how the debate was interpreted as "heated" and "being monitored" as was described by Durbs?
I thought a ton of progress and good use of debate was on the thread, but alas it's gone so time for other things. I just think that many things get screwed up when posts are typed because of the medium so slackness and forgiveness by mods is crucial, if it's an honest mistake surely you can see how that could look like a conspiracy.
It's all good and technically I'm still a newb here so please be patient. Such insanity doesn't happen where I mod on another board.
(just kidding, but the rules said I had to put some emoticon there if there's a possibility of something sounding like a slam or a silly poke or something... wow this is complicated! )EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1264636994)
EDIT_REASON: thought something may be perceived as contoversial so followed FAQ to letter
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
BRONZE Member
addict
474 posts
Location: Australia
addict
474 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Originally Posted By: Pyrolific2) Please everyone don't get your knickers in a knot over the Haiti thread deletion, it was an honest mistake,
actually, I quite like my higher morale ground. Im sitting in between Keith Richards and Mother Teresa.
Originally Posted By: Pyrolific2) Please everyone don't get your knickers in a knot over the Haiti thread deletion, it was an honest mistake,
actually, I quite like my higher morale ground. Im sitting in between Keith Richards and Mother Teresa.
sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Originally Posted By: EoNmy stating facts about what I see everyday in the lives of the average American for my area
would be a good start to back your observations (and statistics) with links.
Originally Posted By: EoNit was on a watch list because of people who are IMO way too easily offended or who lack just cause to start a serious inquiry about infractions
that might be due to the nature of each personality or else to the very the context of (derogatory) vocabulary used.
Originally Posted By: EoNwhy isn't she disciplined?
who tells you that she isn't?
I almost recall the exact wording of your reply to her one line comment and addressed you on it as I found it absolutely unjustified. I would have found your wording a personalized attack - though you seem not ready to understand that. This is not about USsian or Western stereotypes... she did a remark and voiced her (emotional) opinion. And you got all over her like a hungry dog in a candy store.
This is not about favoring one member over the other (due to registration date) - I did take sides with people who were new on the board and whose opinions greatly differed from my own and who even chose to offend me prior - and after.
It is more along the lines: don't charge a member by her/his choice of words or emotional arguments.
Sometimes we choose to dislike someone (without ever having seen this person) for very subtle reasons. We're ready to strike every time we even see the avatar in front of a post or reading her/his name. English is not my first language but I reckon it's called "grudge" or at least "retention"... Not that I experienced the same with anyone here
but sometimes - when being called on it, it's wise to review one's own post, to rephrase and taking that (personally cutting) edge out of it.
And it always helps to do a quick google and back up your claims national debt does not equal poverty ... it's often about very unfortunate distribution of resources and wealth only ...
Originally Posted By: EoNmy stating facts about what I see everyday in the lives of the average American for my area
would be a good start to back your observations (and statistics) with links.
Originally Posted By: EoNit was on a watch list because of people who are IMO way too easily offended or who lack just cause to start a serious inquiry about infractions
that might be due to the nature of each personality or else to the very the context of (derogatory) vocabulary used.
Originally Posted By: EoNwhy isn't she disciplined?
who tells you that she isn't?
I almost recall the exact wording of your reply to her one line comment and addressed you on it as I found it absolutely unjustified. I would have found your wording a personalized attack - though you seem not ready to understand that. This is not about USsian or Western stereotypes... she did a remark and voiced her (emotional) opinion. And you got all over her like a hungry dog in a candy store.
This is not about favoring one member over the other (due to registration date) - I did take sides with people who were new on the board and whose opinions greatly differed from my own and who even chose to offend me prior - and after.
It is more along the lines: don't charge a member by her/his choice of words or emotional arguments.
Sometimes we choose to dislike someone (without ever having seen this person) for very subtle reasons. We're ready to strike every time we even see the avatar in front of a post or reading her/his name. English is not my first language but I reckon it's called "grudge" or at least "retention"... Not that I experienced the same with anyone here
but sometimes - when being called on it, it's wise to review one's own post, to rephrase and taking that (personally cutting) edge out of it. And it always helps to do a quick google and back up your claims
national debt does not equal poverty ... it's often about very unfortunate distribution of resources and wealth only ... the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
Originally Posted By: This Jaded FleshHIV and AIDs anyone? Uganda? Cannibalism, why can't we? Capital punishment, what is so wrong about it? I could take us all on a trip through the wild world of human morality, even further than these topics and fight both sides. Anyone want to come along? ^^b I promise it's a trip you wouldn't forget.
All of these topics are open to debate on this board AFAIK. I wont participate (probably) because I've kinda lost interest in confirming my own beliefs as right, but I will read with great interest!
As a quick aside;
I can understand how people might have thought there was a conspiracy to gag the board, but really Durbs was on the money. Normally we wouldnt delete a topic like that, we would move it into quarantine (The recycle bin) where we all would have a look at it and perhaps ask a few people to modify their posts before re-introducing it. I'm sure it was a simple mistake on the part of the mod in question, and they certainly didnt intend for the thread to disappear.
I don't know if a system restore can get back a deleted thread without deleting all the other incremental changes (ie posts) made since then. ie we would lose more than we gain.
Cheers,
Originally Posted By: This Jaded FleshHIV and AIDs anyone? Uganda? Cannibalism, why can't we? Capital punishment, what is so wrong about it? I could take us all on a trip through the wild world of human morality, even further than these topics and fight both sides. Anyone want to come along? ^^b I promise it's a trip you wouldn't forget.
All of these topics are open to debate on this board AFAIK. I wont participate (probably) because I've kinda lost interest in confirming my own beliefs as right, but I will read with great interest!
As a quick aside;
I can understand how people might have thought there was a conspiracy to gag the board, but really Durbs was on the money. Normally we wouldnt delete a topic like that, we would move it into quarantine (The recycle bin) where we all would have a look at it and perhaps ask a few people to modify their posts before re-introducing it. I'm sure it was a simple mistake on the part of the mod in question, and they certainly didnt intend for the thread to disappear.
I don't know if a system restore can get back a deleted thread without deleting all the other incremental changes (ie posts) made since then. ie we would lose more than we gain.
Cheers,
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: FireTomthat might be due to the nature of each personality or else to the very the context of (derogatory) vocabulary used.
I think there is a lot more to it than that, but I consider many things that are not "blatantly derogatory" more offensive and demeaning in nature.
Quote:who tells you that she isn't?
I almost recall the exact wording of your reply to her one line comment and addressed you on it as I found it absolutely unjustified. I would have found your wording a personalized attack - though you seem not ready to understand that. This is not about USsian or Western stereotypes... she did a remark and voiced her (emotional) opinion. And you got all over her like a hungry dog in a candy store.
Look, I don't care anymore and trust me you have this all wrong...
Like I said, I would've said it to anyone else who had the ignorance and nerve to say such things. I believe in personal accountability and that she was asking for it. I will say nothing else on the matter as no one sees eye to eye with me on what offenses including premeditated stupidity and just trying to get attention or validation that I consider far worse than someone with the decency and respect to tell me to go *bleep* myself which I would accept with much more kindness because of the honesty and integrity of such open dialogue.
Quote:This is not about favoring one member over the other (due to registration date) - I did take sides with people who were new on the board and whose opinions greatly differed from my own and who even chose to offend me prior - and after.
It is more along the lines: don't charge a member by her/his choice of words or emotional arguments.
Then don't blame me for holding them accountable for their negligent vocalizations and having my own opinion!
Quote:Sometimes we choose to dislike someone (without ever having seen this person) for very subtle reasons. We're ready to strike every time we even see the avatar in front of a post or reading her/his name. English is not my first language but I reckon it's called "grudge" or at least "retention"... Not that I experienced the same with anyone here but sometimes - when being called on it, it's wise to review one's own post, to rephrase and taking that (personally cutting) edge out of it.
Well, no offense Tom, but English is my first language and this is NOT personal and where I come from saying ignorant things can get you beat down or shot. Is that right? No, I think it's horrible! Does it mean people should say what they want and not be held accountable because they carefully formulated how to be passive aggressive? No! I can tell you that I'm a very nice and very tolerant person, but there are people who ask for criticism and not being honest and telling them the straight dope is more of a disservice because they are unable to take criticism and they think whatever they do is just fine. Balance, my dear, balance
Do you really think knowing people face to face makes it better always or changes things? I think it can go either way, but from what I can tell so far I'd rather not have that to deal with.
Quote:And it always helps to do a quick google and back up your claims national debt does not equal poverty ... it's often about very unfortunate distribution of resources and wealth only ...
Tell me how I go about googling the forgotten and those hiding from the census and trying to be under the radar to not worsen their lives. You cannot google everything. If I'm an eye witness that is what it is, take it or leave it.
These sources are not updated quickly enough nor are the appropriate parties even polled here. Also note the United States is 50 states so looking at something on a federal level is absurd anyway. Google and such things are why people are getting stupider and more naive. They think they can just point and click their way through exams and be the expert of everything. I don't encourage this practice as many web pages like Wikipedia are a bunch of BS written by whoever.*shrugs*
I hope you aren't offended or this is wrong for me to say, but my integrity and values aren't worth such sacrifice and scrutiny. Unless people have a moderate/open/centric approach and address me without these unfounded assumptions and with enough respect that I can point out what individually irritates me that may not be so conventional (or should I say covered under the usual playbook), I'm not an individual, just an outsider with no allies all over a big miscommunication and the inability to relate to how I think. I'm not the only one in the world who thinks like I do, so I may be the minority here but it doesn't mean that your accusations or values or anything else are any better or worse than mine.
They are just different and that's cool with me, if this is how it is I'll go back to places online where I can be myself and not have all of this militant liberalism imposed on me.*shrugs* Not worth wasting my real life our over that I could be doing much more productive things and less stressful. I have my own definitions of what I respect, despise, is offensive, and compassionate. It just doesn't match up with anyone else's so it is what it is.
Peace out!
Originally Posted By: FireTomthat might be due to the nature of each personality or else to the very the context of (derogatory) vocabulary used.
I think there is a lot more to it than that, but I consider many things that are not "blatantly derogatory" more offensive and demeaning in nature.
Quote:who tells you that she isn't?
I almost recall the exact wording of your reply to her one line comment and addressed you on it as I found it absolutely unjustified. I would have found your wording a personalized attack - though you seem not ready to understand that. This is not about USsian or Western stereotypes... she did a remark and voiced her (emotional) opinion. And you got all over her like a hungry dog in a candy store.
Look, I don't care anymore and trust me you have this all wrong...
Like I said, I would've said it to anyone else who had the ignorance and nerve to say such things. I believe in personal accountability and that she was asking for it. I will say nothing else on the matter as no one sees eye to eye with me on what offenses including premeditated stupidity and just trying to get attention or validation that I consider far worse than someone with the decency and respect to tell me to go *bleep* myself which I would accept with much more kindness because of the honesty and integrity of such open dialogue.
Quote:This is not about favoring one member over the other (due to registration date) - I did take sides with people who were new on the board and whose opinions greatly differed from my own and who even chose to offend me prior - and after.
It is more along the lines: don't charge a member by her/his choice of words or emotional arguments.
Then don't blame me for holding them accountable for their negligent vocalizations and having my own opinion!
Quote:Sometimes we choose to dislike someone (without ever having seen this person) for very subtle reasons. We're ready to strike every time we even see the avatar in front of a post or reading her/his name. English is not my first language but I reckon it's called "grudge" or at least "retention"... Not that I experienced the same with anyone here
but sometimes - when being called on it, it's wise to review one's own post, to rephrase and taking that (personally cutting) edge out of it. Well, no offense Tom, but English is my first language and this is NOT personal and where I come from saying ignorant things can get you beat down or shot. Is that right? No, I think it's horrible! Does it mean people should say what they want and not be held accountable because they carefully formulated how to be passive aggressive? No! I can tell you that I'm a very nice and very tolerant person, but there are people who ask for criticism and not being honest and telling them the straight dope is more of a disservice because they are unable to take criticism and they think whatever they do is just fine. Balance, my dear, balance
Do you really think knowing people face to face makes it better always or changes things? I think it can go either way, but from what I can tell so far I'd rather not have that to deal with.
Quote:And it always helps to do a quick google and back up your claims
national debt does not equal poverty ... it's often about very unfortunate distribution of resources and wealth only ... Tell me how I go about googling the forgotten and those hiding from the census and trying to be under the radar to not worsen their lives. You cannot google everything. If I'm an eye witness that is what it is, take it or leave it.
These sources are not updated quickly enough nor are the appropriate parties even polled here. Also note the United States is 50 states so looking at something on a federal level is absurd anyway. Google and such things are why people are getting stupider and more naive. They think they can just point and click their way through exams and be the expert of everything. I don't encourage this practice as many web pages like Wikipedia are a bunch of BS written by whoever.*shrugs*
I hope you aren't offended or this is wrong for me to say, but my integrity and values aren't worth such sacrifice and scrutiny. Unless people have a moderate/open/centric approach and address me without these unfounded assumptions and with enough respect that I can point out what individually irritates me that may not be so conventional (or should I say covered under the usual playbook), I'm not an individual, just an outsider with no allies all over a big miscommunication and the inability to relate to how I think. I'm not the only one in the world who thinks like I do, so I may be the minority here but it doesn't mean that your accusations or values or anything else are any better or worse than mine.
They are just different and that's cool with me, if this is how it is I'll go back to places online where I can be myself and not have all of this militant liberalism imposed on me.*shrugs* Not worth wasting my real life our over that I could be doing much more productive things and less stressful. I have my own definitions of what I respect, despise, is offensive, and compassionate. It just doesn't match up with anyone else's so it is what it is.
Peace out!
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
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