Forums > Help! > help with selling fire poi
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Member
2 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Member
2 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
I want to start traveling to diffrent carnavals/festevals and shows to sell fire poi and other things
what i would like to know is
are there any legal matters to think about
whats the best things to sell and what materal should i use
and last where i can find the materals cheap enought that they make a profit
cheers
skippy
xXx
I want to start traveling to diffrent carnavals/festevals and shows to sell fire poi and other things
what i would like to know is
are there any legal matters to think about
whats the best things to sell and what materal should i use
and last where i can find the materals cheap enought that they make a profit
cheers
skippy
xXx
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Well the first legal thing to consider is the high possibility that you may produce poi that are not well made and potentially dangerous. Seriously, if you don't know what materials are used in fire poi, then it sounds like you are somewhat of a newbie. Which is not an insult, just a fact.
Sounds like it would be worth you spending time learning about poi before you think of selling them. This site is a good place to start reading and researching about appropriate materials (eg kevlar wick), links, handles, manufacturing techniqes and safety hints etc. There are other sites as well.
As you learn poi yourself, invest in some good poi that are already manufactured well, learn what you think works well then gradually start making your own. That way if they are not well made you will figure that out yourself as you use them.
There are quite a few sources of good fire poi for people_ companies or makers who sell enough to be able to buy good quality safe fittings in bulk, and therefore cheaply. There might be things you can make to sell more profitably at festivals.. eg cone poi... that are more safe and easy to get into.
The other legal things are licences, product liability insurance and tax.
Good luck , have fun
gabe
Well the first legal thing to consider is the high possibility that you may produce poi that are not well made and potentially dangerous. Seriously, if you don't know what materials are used in fire poi, then it sounds like you are somewhat of a newbie. Which is not an insult, just a fact.
Sounds like it would be worth you spending time learning about poi before you think of selling them. This site is a good place to start reading and researching about appropriate materials (eg kevlar wick), links, handles, manufacturing techniqes and safety hints etc. There are other sites as well.
As you learn poi yourself, invest in some good poi that are already manufactured well, learn what you think works well then gradually start making your own. That way if they are not well made you will figure that out yourself as you use them.
There are quite a few sources of good fire poi for people_ companies or makers who sell enough to be able to buy good quality safe fittings in bulk, and therefore cheaply. There might be things you can make to sell more profitably at festivals.. eg cone poi... that are more safe and easy to get into.
The other legal things are licences, product liability insurance and tax.
Good luck , have fun
gabe
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
I just so much love the last question... 
Don't forget to let us know when you're successful, Skippy
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1217876627)
I just so much love the last question... Written by : skippy
where i can find the materals cheap enought that they make a profit
Don't forget to let us know when you're successful, Skippy
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1217876627)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
addict
489 posts
Location: Perth
489 posts
Location: Perth
Posted:
You have to tell us a bit more.
What fire experience have you had, what selling experience have you had etc.
For example, in Aus, Fire chucks are in the grey area of legality, fire hackysacks have just had a bit of controversy and I'm not 100% sure about the legality of them now. And fire toys may follow.
Also, festivals and events may have a problem as it's likely people will buy them, soak them in alcohol and spin them without experience at the concert.
I have to agree with newgabe... you'll need to do a lot of research, and not just info you can get from us, the spinners. And be forewarned, if a true spinner finds that you're trying to sell a dangerous or poor goods, you will get ripped down.
You have to tell us a bit more.
What fire experience have you had, what selling experience have you had etc.
For example, in Aus, Fire chucks are in the grey area of legality, fire hackysacks have just had a bit of controversy and I'm not 100% sure about the legality of them now. And fire toys may follow.
Also, festivals and events may have a problem as it's likely people will buy them, soak them in alcohol and spin them without experience at the concert.
I have to agree with newgabe... you'll need to do a lot of research, and not just info you can get from us, the spinners. And be forewarned, if a true spinner finds that you're trying to sell a dangerous or poor goods, you will get ripped down.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
now that's an angle... never heard of open hostility against people who sell crappy products... Kiwidoo is sold right here and there are 'true spinners' present. Never heard of a 'grey area' when it comes to the legality of fire toys (not even remotely at this point, apart from nunchucks) and what people do with these products on festival grounds is pretty much off your responsibility hence you may have to face organizers' not liking it. ¤ponders where to get methylated alcohol on a festival anyway¤
now that's an angle... never heard of open hostility against people who sell crappy products... Kiwidoo is sold right here and there are 'true spinners' present. Never heard of a 'grey area' when it comes to the legality of fire toys (not even remotely at this point, apart from nunchucks) and what people do with these products on festival grounds is pretty much off your responsibility hence you may have to face organizers' not liking it. ¤ponders where to get methylated alcohol on a festival anyway¤ the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
*contains usual advice*
You might also want to consider that asking for a LOT of information (and you are, most of what you ask has been discussed in more than one previous thread; technical forums and search function may help you there) using the bandwidth of a fire toy supplier with the aim to making profit from selling your own toys is a bit off.
A few people on here develop their own ideas and make profit. If you want to make bog-standard poi and sell them, using HoP to find advice happens a lot. But you're basically asking for info on manufacturing, materials, legal issues and marketing, that other people have taken a long time to figure out and improve on, to be presented as a finished product, that's a bit much.
(Also if you ever have a website to sell your stuff, or post more on here, please use a spellchecker and some punctuation)
Still, good luck with your ideas, but make sure you develop some of your own!!
*contains usual advice*
You might also want to consider that asking for a LOT of information (and you are, most of what you ask has been discussed in more than one previous thread; technical forums and search function may help you there) using the bandwidth of a fire toy supplier with the aim to making profit from selling your own toys is a bit off.
A few people on here develop their own ideas and make profit. If you want to make bog-standard poi and sell them, using HoP to find advice happens a lot. But you're basically asking for info on manufacturing, materials, legal issues and marketing, that other people have taken a long time to figure out and improve on, to be presented as a finished product, that's a bit much.
(Also if you ever have a website to sell your stuff, or post more on here, please use a spellchecker and some punctuation)
Still, good luck with your ideas, but make sure you develop some of your own!!
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
Yeah, you should actually be able to use the toys, so then you know whats good in a toy, whats bad in a toy, and which features make it safe and easy to use.
But really... are fire toys the ideal thing to be selling at a festival? Whenever I go to a festival theres the price of petrol, food, intoxicants plus the price of the ticket itself, often in excess of 100 dollars for the ticket alone, are people really going to want to impulse buy a fire poi set that will cost them $50+?
Perhaps the idea of selling Cone poi would be better? They're cheaper to manufacture and sell, you could stock a few glowing varieties perhaps, also.
But if you really want to be successful, research what you're getting into, know whats good, what feels nice, whats easy to learn with... Sell a quality product at a reasonable price, trying to cash in on the sudden and fleeting nature of many poi spinners fascination with poi will get you maybe a little cash, no satisfaction and it will essentially drive off that phenomenon alone, with perhaps a little warning each time you sell a toy. "Yeah, I got these poi from the guy at X festival, they're not that great, but eah" I doubt people will be likely to buy after a recommendation like that..
Yeah, you should actually be able to use the toys, so then you know whats good in a toy, whats bad in a toy, and which features make it safe and easy to use.
But really... are fire toys the ideal thing to be selling at a festival? Whenever I go to a festival theres the price of petrol, food, intoxicants plus the price of the ticket itself, often in excess of 100 dollars for the ticket alone, are people really going to want to impulse buy a fire poi set that will cost them $50+?
Perhaps the idea of selling Cone poi would be better? They're cheaper to manufacture and sell, you could stock a few glowing varieties perhaps, also.
But if you really want to be successful, research what you're getting into, know whats good, what feels nice, whats easy to learn with... Sell a quality product at a reasonable price, trying to cash in on the sudden and fleeting nature of many poi spinners fascination with poi will get you maybe a little cash, no satisfaction and it will essentially drive off that phenomenon alone, with perhaps a little warning each time you sell a toy. "Yeah, I got these poi from the guy at X festival, they're not that great, but eah" I doubt people will be likely to buy after a recommendation like that..
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
"Cone Poi"... guess "Sock Poi doesn't sound fancy enough?
But I'd guess you're right, M_N_S ... people going to a festival won't necessarily be shopping for firetoys, unless it's a Juggling Convention or something specific.
Take into consideration that festivals are around for a long time, firetoys just as well and that there might be a reason why not too many people offer firetoys on festivals... It might not be the case that nobody ever had the idea popping up before... Especially not if they are able to answer your last question satisfactory
Maybe it's not bad to have some firetoys in stock, along with other stuff - but a stall exclusively for firetoys? Not certain...
"Cone Poi"... guess "Sock Poi doesn't sound fancy enough?
But I'd guess you're right, M_N_S ... people going to a festival won't necessarily be shopping for firetoys, unless it's a Juggling Convention or something specific.
Take into consideration that festivals are around for a long time, firetoys just as well and that there might be a reason why not too many people offer firetoys on festivals... It might not be the case that nobody ever had the idea popping up before... Especially not if they are able to answer your last question satisfactory
Maybe it's not bad to have some firetoys in stock, along with other stuff - but a stall exclusively for firetoys? Not certain...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Hey cheeky Tom, they are different.
Sock poi are made from socks.
Which stretch. And some people like that. But I don't. No stretch for ME thanks.
Plus socks are knitted which gives them a particular texture. My favorite poi are quite slippery fabric. And the ball bit ends up bigger than the skinny stretched out bit. Yech
What I call cone poi are made of woven fabric that doesn't stretch, and hold their shape And can be pretty colours. And nicely shaped. And even have swivels and stuff.
So I guess, yep, *posher*. Exactly.
Written by :FireTom
"Cone Poi"... guess "Sock Poi doesn't sound fancy enough?
Hey cheeky Tom, they are different.
Sock poi are made from socks.
Which stretch. And some people like that. But I don't. No stretch for ME thanks.
Plus socks are knitted which gives them a particular texture. My favorite poi are quite slippery fabric. And the ball bit ends up bigger than the skinny stretched out bit. Yech
What I call cone poi are made of woven fabric that doesn't stretch, and hold their shape And can be pretty colours. And nicely shaped. And even have swivels and stuff.
So I guess, yep, *posher*. Exactly.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
addict
489 posts
Location: Perth
489 posts
Location: Perth
Posted:
Going by quite a few threads on HOP where people have been talking about their products, there have been many strong opinions about the safety and quality of such products. I.e. if there was someone selling poi made from material or that fibreglass stuff, wouldn't you want to say something to them about how the material will only last a certain number of burns and will fragment, allowing hot particles to fly around and get in eyes/breathe in.
Australia's just had some changes in law because some F***wit bought a fire hacky and held it in his hand. Not surprisingly he burnt himself and the publicity got them banned from sale (unless you're a professional).
There was talk about the ban expanding to include all fire toys.
*goes to find more info for everyone*
Written by :FireTom
Going by quite a few threads on HOP where people have been talking about their products, there have been many strong opinions about the safety and quality of such products. I.e. if there was someone selling poi made from material or that fibreglass stuff, wouldn't you want to say something to them about how the material will only last a certain number of burns and will fragment, allowing hot particles to fly around and get in eyes/breathe in.
Written by :FireTom
Never heard of a 'grey area' when it comes to the legality of fire toys (not even remotely at this point, apart from nunchucks)
Australia's just had some changes in law because some F***wit bought a fire hacky and held it in his hand. Not surprisingly he burnt himself and the publicity got them banned from sale (unless you're a professional).
There was talk about the ban expanding to include all fire toys.
*goes to find more info for everyone*
addict
489 posts
Location: Perth
489 posts
Location: Perth
Posted:
CE403*
CONSUMER AFFAIRS ACT 1971
ORDER PROHIBITING SUPPLY OF GOODS
I, Anne Marie Driscoll Commissioner for Consumer Protection in the State of Western Australia—
• being satisfied that a Consumer Affairs Authority, namely Chris Bowen, Minister for
Competition Policy and Consumer Affairs in the Commonwealth Government of Australia,
has, by notice dated 16 June 2008 and published in the Commonwealth of Australia Gazette
on 16 June 2008, made an Order or similar instrument (“the Corresponding Order”)
prohibiting the supply of goods described in the Schedule hereto; and
• considering it necessary in the interests of the safety of the public;
• Order pursuant to section 23R(2) of the Consumer Affairs Act 1971 that the supply to
consumers of goods described in the Schedule below is prohibited in this State for a period of
18 months; and
• Further order that this Order shall take effect upon the date of gazettal.
SCHEDULE
Particulars of Goods
Balls manufactured from fire resistant material, designed to be doused in flammable liquid and
ignited, and intended to be used for the purpose of amusement by kicking or throwing, including but
not limited to goods supplied as “Fire Footbag”, except where such goods are supplied for use by
professional entertainers or for theatrical use and where the purchaser is able to demonstrate such
qualifications or intended use.
Dated this 20th day of June 2008.
ANNE MARIE DRISCOLL, Commissioner for Consumer Protection.
CE403*
CONSUMER AFFAIRS ACT 1971
ORDER PROHIBITING SUPPLY OF GOODS
I, Anne Marie Driscoll Commissioner for Consumer Protection in the State of Western Australia—
• being satisfied that a Consumer Affairs Authority, namely Chris Bowen, Minister for
Competition Policy and Consumer Affairs in the Commonwealth Government of Australia,
has, by notice dated 16 June 2008 and published in the Commonwealth of Australia Gazette
on 16 June 2008, made an Order or similar instrument (“the Corresponding Order”)
prohibiting the supply of goods described in the Schedule hereto; and
• considering it necessary in the interests of the safety of the public;
• Order pursuant to section 23R(2) of the Consumer Affairs Act 1971 that the supply to
consumers of goods described in the Schedule below is prohibited in this State for a period of
18 months; and
• Further order that this Order shall take effect upon the date of gazettal.
SCHEDULE
Particulars of Goods
Balls manufactured from fire resistant material, designed to be doused in flammable liquid and
ignited, and intended to be used for the purpose of amusement by kicking or throwing, including but
not limited to goods supplied as “Fire Footbag”, except where such goods are supplied for use by
professional entertainers or for theatrical use and where the purchaser is able to demonstrate such
qualifications or intended use.
Dated this 20th day of June 2008.
ANNE MARIE DRISCOLL, Commissioner for Consumer Protection.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Thanks for the info, Nat
Thanks for the info, Nat
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
addict
489 posts
Location: Perth
489 posts
Location: Perth
Posted:
No worries!!
It's just worrying as poi are technically balls. though you swing them instead of kick or throw (though a police officer may not see the difference. )
Info was actually from Freo fire boards - I think it was Jorja.
EDITED_BY: natasqi (1218086915)
No worries!!
It's just worrying as poi are technically balls. though you swing them instead of kick or throw (though a police officer may not see the difference. )
Info was actually from Freo fire boards - I think it was Jorja.
EDITED_BY: natasqi (1218086915)
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
I have been made to do the odd throw with my poi so thats troubling.
And on cone/sock poi I do see a distinction as well... but most cone poi i've come across have lots of elasticity (Granted, they were for glow poi)
My socks actually have little to no elasticity left in them, they're brilliant to spin with, I do love them so. They're a bit worse for wear and I have had to replace one end of them but they feel so nice, the lack of swivels is a letdown though...
And they've gotten much longer since I started, so now I can do ridiculously long spiral wraps... THATS a nice feeling, does get annoying having to wrap them round my hands so much to get a regular length or buzzsaw length but they were only my second pair of sock poi and my first actually got lost within the first few weeks of poi, so they may as well be my only ones.
They'll be at CG with me this year, natasgi if we happen to bump into one another there you can then view my not-stretchy anymore sock poi. ^_^
What a bizarre and semi-off topic rant.
Back on topic, FireTom has pretty much nailed the idea I was trying to convey, I think... I wouldn't try selling just fire poi, try a range of props, it'll look more attractive and if you're selling glow poi you could even have some on around the stall at night to attract attention! From there if the fire poi are selling a lot better than expected, simply make that a larger component of the stall, start out very balanced then lean with a bias toward the stuff thats selling since you'll have a better idea of whats selling.
But thats my 2 cents. ^_^
I have been made to do the odd throw with my poi so thats troubling.
And on cone/sock poi I do see a distinction as well... but most cone poi i've come across have lots of elasticity (Granted, they were for glow poi)
My socks actually have little to no elasticity left in them, they're brilliant to spin with, I do love them so. They're a bit worse for wear and I have had to replace one end of them but they feel so nice, the lack of swivels is a letdown though...
And they've gotten much longer since I started, so now I can do ridiculously long spiral wraps... THATS a nice feeling, does get annoying having to wrap them round my hands so much to get a regular length or buzzsaw length but they were only my second pair of sock poi and my first actually got lost within the first few weeks of poi, so they may as well be my only ones.
They'll be at CG with me this year, natasgi if we happen to bump into one another there you can then view my not-stretchy anymore sock poi. ^_^
What a bizarre and semi-off topic rant.
Back on topic, FireTom has pretty much nailed the idea I was trying to convey, I think... I wouldn't try selling just fire poi, try a range of props, it'll look more attractive and if you're selling glow poi you could even have some on around the stall at night to attract attention! From there if the fire poi are selling a lot better than expected, simply make that a larger component of the stall, start out very balanced then lean with a bias toward the stuff thats selling since you'll have a better idea of whats selling.
But thats my 2 cents. ^_^
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
MNS - "missing swivel" tie a knot just above the end of the sock (above the ball), they'll behave much different.
MNS - "missing swivel" tie a knot just above the end of the sock (above the ball), they'll behave much different.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
It was actually only the hyperloops and stuff like that that I needed the swivels to stop em twisting up. I think it angles in enough naturally that the knot wouldn't alter it much, unless it alters it in a way I havent thought of. I'll give it a try anyway, thanks for the tip.
Where did skippy go??
EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1218190357)
It was actually only the hyperloops and stuff like that that I needed the swivels to stop em twisting up. I think it angles in enough naturally that the knot wouldn't alter it much, unless it alters it in a way I havent thought of. I'll give it a try anyway, thanks for the tip.
Where did skippy go??
EDITED_BY: Mother_Natures_Son (1218190357)
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Good question, maybe he's looking for equipment cheap enough to make a profit, or he's seriously reconsidering his entire approach... Ha, another entrepreneur successfully buggered off (hope not)
Good question, maybe he's looking for equipment cheap enough to make a profit, or he's seriously reconsidering his entire approach... Ha, another entrepreneur successfully buggered off
(hope not) the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
enthusiast
360 posts
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
enthusiast
360 posts
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
Posted:
If you're mainly looking for a source of cash at festivals, start by selling glowsticks. They're easy to make a profit on, have a much larger market and aren't really dangerous.
Poi & fire gear are quite difficult to make a profit on to be honest. Some friends of mine started up a fire toys business, had a decent looking website & a stall for festivals, and still struggled to generate enough cash to make it worthwhile. I think part of the problem is that for the size of the customer base the market is fairly saturated, which leads to price competition.
I looked at making my own monkey fists a while back & found that the price of kevlar rope (in the small quantities require) isn't much cheaper than buying the finished product. If I factored in the time it would take it ended up cheaper buying the finshed product because places like HoP buy at wholesale prices & probably have a few tricks up their sleeves with regards to manufacturing aswell.
If you're mainly looking for a source of cash at festivals, start by selling glowsticks. They're easy to make a profit on, have a much larger market and aren't really dangerous.
Poi & fire gear are quite difficult to make a profit on to be honest. Some friends of mine started up a fire toys business, had a decent looking website & a stall for festivals, and still struggled to generate enough cash to make it worthwhile. I think part of the problem is that for the size of the customer base the market is fairly saturated, which leads to price competition.
I looked at making my own monkey fists a while back & found that the price of kevlar rope (in the small quantities require) isn't much cheaper than buying the finished product. If I factored in the time it would take it ended up cheaper buying the finshed product because places like HoP buy at wholesale prices & probably have a few tricks up their sleeves with regards to manufacturing aswell.
BRONZE Member
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
*shows bare wrists* Look carefully ..... nothing up my sleeves!!
But yes - when you factor in your time (and especially with monkey fists because they're such a dificult knot to get right) buying from the professionals should always be cheaper than doing it yourself.
Written by :GeoffonTour04
If I factored in the time it would take it ended up cheaper buying the finshed product because places like HoP buy at wholesale prices & probably have a few tricks up their sleeves with regards to manufacturing aswell.
*shows bare wrists* Look carefully ..... nothing up my sleeves!!
But yes - when you factor in your time (and especially with monkey fists because they're such a dificult knot to get right) buying from the professionals should always be cheaper than doing it yourself.
Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread
I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it. 
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
One aspect being that making 10 is only little more than making 2... especially when you already made 200 and have routine.
Don't trust GMC it's not up the sleeves, it's between thumb and index
One aspect being that making 10 is only little more than making 2... especially when you already made 200 and have routine.
Don't trust GMC it's not up the sleeves, it's between thumb and index
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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