Forums > Technical Discussion > bending the staff?
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
I love my new staff, but being a total novice to it, I do tend to drop it on occasion. I have a 60" aluminum tube (7/8" diameter) with 24" of dowel wedged into each end. This is leaving the center with 12" more of open space. And of course there is some padding on the ends for protection (and added weight)
Its delightfully heavy for contact, a bit sluggish for super fast figure 8's and such, but the real problem is I notice that I am developing a wobble in the staff towards the center. At least a couple of times each spin, I have to massage it back into a semblance of straight.
But is it even worth doing this? Is the aluminum too thin, or should I simply stuff the tube completely with dowel? Im trying to avoid having the center too heavy as Im concentrating on contact moves.
I love my new staff, but being a total novice to it, I do tend to drop it on occasion. I have a 60" aluminum tube (7/8" diameter) with 24" of dowel wedged into each end. This is leaving the center with 12" more of open space. And of course there is some padding on the ends for protection (and added weight)
Its delightfully heavy for contact, a bit sluggish for super fast figure 8's and such, but the real problem is I notice that I am developing a wobble in the staff towards the center. At least a couple of times each spin, I have to massage it back into a semblance of straight.
But is it even worth doing this? Is the aluminum too thin, or should I simply stuff the tube completely with dowel? Im trying to avoid having the center too heavy as Im concentrating on contact moves.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
SILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Posted:
ive thought about putting maybe a foot of dowel into the center of my next staff, and glue that in there but both of mine just have some dowel in the end and only 6inches at that, the rest is hollow. Ive noticed a little bouce during steves occasionally but i can usually locate the bend and flex it back no problem.
ive thought about putting maybe a foot of dowel into the center of my next staff, and glue that in there but both of mine just have some dowel in the end and only 6inches at that, the rest is hollow. Ive noticed a little bouce during steves occasionally but i can usually locate the bend and flex it back no problem.
O.B.E.S.E.
Owned by Mynci!
BRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
right. And that's usually what I end up doing, flexing it back into shape.
So, the fact that it is bending here and there on occasion isn't overly worrying?
right. And that's usually what I end up doing, flexing it back into shape.
So, the fact that it is bending here and there on occasion isn't overly worrying?
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
SILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Posted:
i dont think so. I mean you COULD dowel the whole staff and then add washers or something to the ends (for contact weight) but the overall weight wil be much heavier. Im not saying its a bad idea, just ive never used one like that and cant imagine itd be better.
how thin is the wall of your aluminum tube?
The bending should be caused by dropping the staff, unless it lands oddly, since you said that it happens a couple times per session id GUESS your alum tube is too thin. Did you use a shower rod? i know those are really thin and terrible for staffs.
i dont think so. I mean you COULD dowel the whole staff and then add washers or something to the ends (for contact weight) but the overall weight wil be much heavier. Im not saying its a bad idea, just ive never used one like that and cant imagine itd be better.
how thin is the wall of your aluminum tube?
The bending should be caused by dropping the staff, unless it lands oddly, since you said that it happens a couple times per session id GUESS your alum tube is too thin. Did you use a shower rod? i know those are really thin and terrible for staffs.
O.B.E.S.E.
Owned by Mynci!
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Hmm, you haven't heard of anyone advocating aluminum with solid wodden core all the way through to prevent bending of the staff and adding weight to it?
Sorry, I'm stuck in metrics - your dimensions gimme syntax errors
I'm preferring 20mm staff with 1 - 1.5mm thickness and solid wodden cores (pine or any other soft wood).
Any hollow aluminum staff without core will bend at some stage, this or you're not daring enough
Hmm, you haven't heard of anyone advocating aluminum with solid wodden core all the way through to prevent bending of the staff and adding weight to it?
Sorry, I'm stuck in metrics - your dimensions gimme syntax errors
I'm preferring 20mm staff with 1 - 1.5mm thickness and solid wodden cores (pine or any other soft wood).Any hollow aluminum staff without core will bend at some stage, this or you're not daring enough
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
BRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
Well, my last major bend just occurred across my forehead. Is that daring enough? *holds icepack*
I have heard of solid cores, but for contact many have been advocating more for a displacement of the weight more towards the ends for the inertial leverage. Still, you have a point, and I may end up going that route.
My apologies for the english units. I got lazy about posting the metrics as well.
my 5ft staff is 152 cm. The 24" dowels are 60 cm each, leaving the hollow part in the center at approx. 32 cm. Its in that 32 cm that the bends are occurring.
Well, my last major bend just occurred across my forehead. Is that daring enough? *holds icepack*
I have heard of solid cores, but for contact many have been advocating more for a displacement of the weight more towards the ends for the inertial leverage. Still, you have a point, and I may end up going that route.
My apologies for the english units. I got lazy about posting the metrics as well.
my 5ft staff is 152 cm. The 24" dowels are 60 cm each, leaving the hollow part in the center at approx. 32 cm. Its in that 32 cm that the bends are occurring.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
ouch
no worries, the universal measurement (for me) is from the centre of the staff toyoru armpit. If the staff comfortably passes, it's the right length.
solid core: also applicable to contact staff, whereas one without is limiting the staff to contact exclusively.
You can still add weight towards the end (lead or other kind of metal inlays).
It's just all about what you're aiming for. There is no "universal law" regarding anything in making your own staff or poi or whatever. The only "universal law" is you.
All I'm trying is to help you to avoid adjustments necessary to your staff after each and every training or performance...
ouch no worries, the universal measurement (for me) is from the centre of the staff toyoru armpit. If the staff comfortably passes, it's the right length.
solid core: also applicable to contact staff, whereas one without is limiting the staff to contact exclusively.
You can still add weight towards the end (lead or other kind of metal inlays).
It's just all about what you're aiming for. There is no "universal law" regarding anything in making your own staff or poi or whatever. The only "universal law" is you.
All I'm trying is to help you to avoid adjustments necessary to your staff after each and every training or performance...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,099 posts
Location: Bideford and Bath, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,099 posts
Location: Bideford and Bath, United Kingdom
Posted:
wight at the ends is better for contact but I had a fully cored staff that was excellent for contact so it doesn't hold you back.
I currently have no core or plugs in my double staffs that are 5 ft and made with very thick walled aluminium, and they're great for contact to which is mainly what I use them.
Also I f your getting many bends in the same place I wouldn't recommend just always bending it back as it will probably cause metal fatigue and it will break
and no ones like a broken staff
wight at the ends is better for contact but I had a fully cored staff that was excellent for contact so it doesn't hold you back.
I currently have no core or plugs in my double staffs that are 5 ft and made with very thick walled aluminium, and they're great for contact to which is mainly what I use them.
Also I f your getting many bends in the same place I wouldn't recommend just always bending it back as it will probably cause metal fatigue and it will break
and no ones like a broken staff
UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."
Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump
Pinker than thou
336 posts
Location: A little pink world all my own..
336 posts
Location: A little pink world all my own..
Posted:
I got a chromed curtain rail and filled it with dowel once, lovely staff it was...
Took it along to (name of venue withheld), lent it to someone, told them to bring it back when they were done, found it an hour and a half later kicking around on the floor and horribly bent. Never been the same since.
So:
1) A solid core won't stop it bending.
2) Once it's bent once, that's it. Whole thing's
3) Don't ever lend your lovely staff to idiots who can't do staff.
4) Don't ever lend your lovely staff to winkers who don't bring it back when they're done.
Yes, there is a deliberate typo.
I got a chromed curtain rail and filled it with dowel once, lovely staff it was...
Took it along to (name of venue withheld), lent it to someone, told them to bring it back when they were done, found it an hour and a half later kicking around on the floor and horribly bent. Never been the same since.
So:
1) A solid core won't stop it bending.
2) Once it's bent once, that's it. Whole thing's
3) Don't ever lend your lovely staff to idiots who can't do staff.
4) Don't ever lend your lovely staff to winkers who don't bring it back when they're done.
Yes, there is a deliberate typo.
A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the 
up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)
BRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
That sux, Nigel. Sounds like that staff was pretty similar to my own. So I think Ill just keep fiddling around until I have gotten better at not dropping it before I build another. And for that I'll look for that thicker ali tubing that yoni mentioned.
And, no, I wouldn't lend out Polly to anyone. I keep a lighter bamboo staff around for anyone who wants to play.
That sux, Nigel.
Sounds like that staff was pretty similar to my own. So I think Ill just keep fiddling around until I have gotten better at not dropping it before I build another. And for that I'll look for that thicker ali tubing that yoni mentioned.And, no, I wouldn't lend out Polly to anyone. I keep a lighter bamboo staff around for anyone who wants to play.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
bending solid core staffs? The core been from a single piece? ... wow that's incredible and suxx so much 
*waves fist at winkers who abuse and up other peoples staffs*
bending solid core staffs? The core been from a single piece? ... wow that's incredible and suxx so much *waves fist at winkers who abuse and
up other peoples staffs* the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
old hand
716 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
old hand
716 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
even with 1.5mm walls you will still get a bent staff eventually. Putting a core (all the way through) in will help stop it from bending but wont give as nice a weight distribution. You can weight the ends with other stuff but be careful, the heavier your staff is, the more it hurts (putting a core in will make it hurt more too, if its hollow it has a little flex to it).
I used a seriously heavy staff with full wooden core and lead weights in the ends for about 4 years, it was a lovely staff and after all that time relativly straight. I had to stop using it though, after a few cracks to the knee and elbow took several months to heal (still get problems with my knee).
My current staff is hollow, 140cm, titanium, 0.7mm wall thickness with 80cm of 2.5cm rope at each end. It is a lot more succeptible to bending but drops from contact are mostly ok, high throws are out. It's the best staff ive ever had for contact and doesnt hurt too much when i hit myself. It will only last about a year though, after that the tubing will be too bent (bending back never quite gets it the same), i figure its worth spending £20 on a new tube every year or so for a really nice staff.
Squid: I wouldnt worry too much about bending you staff, bend it back and just make a new one every now and again, its good to learn how to make a staff just the way you like and it isnt that expensive.
Basically its personal preference how you make it; core = less likley to bend, hollow = better weight distribution
Written by: Rellizate
Curtian poles are incredibly thin. They have a wall thickness of 0.56mm. You want at least 1.5mm aliminium walls (common size).
even with 1.5mm walls you will still get a bent staff eventually. Putting a core (all the way through) in will help stop it from bending but wont give as nice a weight distribution. You can weight the ends with other stuff but be careful, the heavier your staff is, the more it hurts (putting a core in will make it hurt more too, if its hollow it has a little flex to it).
I used a seriously heavy staff with full wooden core and lead weights in the ends for about 4 years, it was a lovely staff and after all that time relativly straight. I had to stop using it though, after a few cracks to the knee and elbow took several months to heal (still get problems with my knee).
My current staff is hollow, 140cm, titanium, 0.7mm wall thickness with 80cm of 2.5cm rope at each end. It is a lot more succeptible to bending but drops from contact are mostly ok, high throws are out. It's the best staff ive ever had for contact and doesnt hurt too much when i hit myself. It will only last about a year though, after that the tubing will be too bent (bending back never quite gets it the same), i figure its worth spending £20 on a new tube every year or so for a really nice staff.
Squid: I wouldnt worry too much about bending you staff, bend it back and just make a new one every now and again, its good to learn how to make a staff just the way you like and it isnt that expensive.
Basically its personal preference how you make it; core = less likley to bend, hollow = better weight distribution
"Don't do it naked!"
BRONZE Member
member
47 posts
Location: Gold Coast, Qld, Australia
member
47 posts
Location: Gold Coast, Qld, Australia
Posted:
As above squid, how do attach wicks and what type
As above squid, how do attach wicks and what type
Crime does not pay ... as well as politics.
A bowl of soup with some one you love is better than steak with some one you hate. Proverbs 15, 17
BRONZE Member
member
47 posts
Location: Gold Coast, Qld, Australia
member
47 posts
Location: Gold Coast, Qld, Australia
Posted:
Depending on how the wick is fastened, weight distribution on the ends of the staff is important, if you are using screws and washers, all with the heads on one side, x that by 4 makes staff unbalanced the entire lenght, almost an opposing force or as I have experienced, the staff will wobble
Depending on how the wick is fastened, weight distribution on the ends of the staff is important, if you are using screws and washers, all with the heads on one side, x that by 4 makes staff unbalanced the entire lenght, almost an opposing force or as I have experienced, the staff will wobble
Crime does not pay ... as well as politics.
A bowl of soup with some one you love is better than steak with some one you hate. Proverbs 15, 17
SILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Posted:
i built both of my staffs with all the hardware on one side, not sure WHY but i have though, "Hmmm maybe it would have better ballance if the hardware was on oppisite sides". But its really not that big of a deal i dotn think.
i built both of my staffs with all the hardware on one side, not sure WHY but i have though, "Hmmm maybe it would have better ballance if the hardware was on oppisite sides". But its really not that big of a deal i dotn think.
O.B.E.S.E.
Owned by Mynci!
BRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA
Posted:
Sorry. Havent been online to respond.
Since this is only a practice staff for me to begin learning (both spinning and building staves), I had opted for experimental padding. I used 6 feet (1.8 meters) of denim cotton, with a 3 inch (7.6 cm) width. They're more for padding than anything else, but they had a close weight feel to kevlar and the dense weave I needed to tighten a screw through.
These denim strips are wrapped tightly and screwed in using 2 self-tapping screws at 1 1/2 inch length. (3.8 cm) Those screws go through the aluminum and into the wood dowel.
Coincidentally, I did actually place the hardware on opposing sides, but more for symmetry than because I was aware of the balance issue.
Im still learning how to make a clean attachment for the barrel knot, so I havent drilled holes through metal tubing yet. When I do, I have quite a bit of 3/8" (.375")(.95cm) kevlar rope that I was thinking about trying. I like the idea of knots over hardware, for reducing exposed metal, plus the sheer aesthetics of its look.
Sorry. Havent been online to respond.
Since this is only a practice staff for me to begin learning (both spinning and building staves), I had opted for experimental padding. I used 6 feet (1.8 meters) of denim cotton, with a 3 inch (7.6 cm) width. They're more for padding than anything else, but they had a close weight feel to kevlar and the dense weave I needed to tighten a screw through.
These denim strips are wrapped tightly and screwed in using 2 self-tapping screws at 1 1/2 inch length. (3.8 cm) Those screws go through the aluminum and into the wood dowel.
Coincidentally, I did actually place the hardware on opposing sides, but more for symmetry than because I was aware of the balance issue.
Im still learning how to make a clean attachment for the barrel knot, so I havent drilled holes through metal tubing yet. When I do, I have quite a bit of 3/8" (.375")(.95cm) kevlar rope that I was thinking about trying. I like the idea of knots over hardware, for reducing exposed metal, plus the sheer aesthetics of its look.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
BRONZE Member
member
47 posts
Location: Gold Coast, Qld, Australia
member
47 posts
Location: Gold Coast, Qld, Australia
Posted:
Currently using 3mm Aluminium tube 1200mm long, aint no way you going to bend it on your head and get up I started out using hose clamps to fix/clamp wick material down, wicks are 100mm across, weight dry is 850gm and 1150gm when soaked, probably a bit on the shortish side for contact but I'm working on it
Currently using 3mm Aluminium tube 1200mm long, aint no way you going to bend it on your head and get up
I started out using hose clamps to fix/clamp wick material down, wicks are 100mm across, weight dry is 850gm and 1150gm when soaked, probably a bit on the shortish side for contact but I'm working on it Crime does not pay ... as well as politics.
A bowl of soup with some one you love is better than steak with some one you hate. Proverbs 15, 17