Written by: Stone
Dave, it doesn’t necessarily follow that because someone is a vegan they contribute much less harm to the environment, than a meat eater.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
it's undeniable that the vegan causes less harm, both environmentally and in terms of animal suffering, than does the meat-eater.
Or, do you say otherwise?
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by:
Someone eating occasional meat and dairy products grown in local organic farms alongside locally produced unpackaged fruit veg and cereals will more than likely have a far lesser environmental impact than a vegan eating processed foods imported halfway round the world (nuts, soya, etc - things lots of vegans consume to get protein and cant be grown in the UK), which has been grown on arable land that has recently seen the clearance of old growth forest, has been grown using a plethora of pesticides and insecticides and whose food comes wrapped up in loads of plastics which are then not recycled.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: stone
Dave, sorry I don’t follow your logic. All things are not equal...........
Written by: stone
“Environmental groups, such as Greenpeace and the WWF, have reported that both soybean cultivation and the threat to increase soybean cultivation in Brazil is destroying huge areas of Amazon rainforest and encouraging deforestation. Besides destruction of the rainforest, it destroys unique biodiversity and causes a billion dollar's loss on technology from bionics revenue” (wiki).
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
Soya's main use in the UK is as feed for livestock. After the oil has been extracted the resulting high-protein meal is widely used in animal feed, forming an essential fuel for intensively reared cattle, pigs and poultry.
Written by:
The animal feed industry uses 77% of the soybean meal produced primarily as an amino acid and protein source in diets. Consequently, soybeans are an integral component of the US agriculture industry, and use of the soybean in animal feed formulations is important to the viability of the agriculture industry. The continued dominance of soybean use in animal feed applications is dependent upon designing soybean seed compositions that will benefit animal production
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
However, how valid is the comparison you suggest, between a vegan eating produce shipped halfway around the world & a meat-eater eating locally produced organic meat/animal produce?
I used the term 'all other things being roughly equal'- the comparison you suggest is a bit dubious on those terms.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: OWD
if meat-eaters are going to continue using soy in their arguments against veganism, could they address the point I posted above, which is that the majority of soy seems to be used for animal feed, not vegans?
Written by: soil association
Organic cows graze on pastures which have not been treated with artificial pesticides and fertilisers
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
Written by: dream
You clearly have no desire to listen to anything beyond a childlike good/bad binary between meat eaters and vegans.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: dreamWritten by: OWD
if meat-eaters are going to continue using soy in their arguments against veganism, could they address the point I posted above, which is that the majority of soy seems to be used for animal feed, not vegans?
If you need me to state the completely obvious than i will...Written by: soil association
Organic cows graze on pastures which have not been treated with artificial pesticides and fertilisers
This being from the association which certifies farms as organic.
As the UK doesn't have pastures of soya as it isn't a viable crop under UK climate (source UNFAO - https://faostat.fao.org/site/340/DesktopDefault.aspx?PageID=340 they list what nations produce what crops) its fairly safe to say that the pastures these animals graze on aren't soy.
So organic meat eaters are responsible for the devastating carbon footprint of locally grown grass.
Whereas soymilk not only involves the food miles, but is responsible for deforestation - as you've pointed out.
I don't know the relative footprints of locally grown grass and imported soya responsible for the felling of the amazon, but I'd guess that the grass has a footprint less than one tenth of the soy.
However, on the other hand intensive factory farming requires the importation of vast amounts of feed for their vast number of animals housed on small areas of land (often in sheds 24/7). As soy is a high protein food it is used to bulk up factory farmed animals. So these animals have 10x the footprint of the vegans who eat the same soy.
Once again you manage to homogenize the evil meat industry rather than dealing with the specific case I presented.
I've gotten somewhat bored with pointing that out to you... You clearly have no desire to listen to anything beyond a childlike good/bad binary between meat eaters and vegans.
Written by: dream
However, on the other hand intensive factory farming requires the importation of vast amounts of feed for their vast number of animals housed on small areas of land (often in sheds 24/7). As soy is a high protein food it is used to bulk up factory farmed animals. So these animals have 10x the footprint of the vegans who eat the same soy.
Written by: dream
Once again you manage to homogenize the evil meat industry rather than dealing with the specific case I presented.
Written by: dream
You clearly have no desire to listen to anything beyond a childlike good/bad binary between meat eaters and vegans....
...I'm outta here...
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
... simplify ...
Written by: faithinfire
actually, there is growing demand for organic meats.
a store just opened in my neighborhood,and is doing very well. milwaukee has the public market which has tons of local organic foods. bf got some meat there that was out of this world in taste.
organic meat demand is growing because many cooking shows are promoting buying locally and organicly. it's even been on oprah, the difference in taste of organic foods, including meat. most of the cooking shows that i watch, encourage organic meats. my family is starting to cook with organic meats, my friends cook with organics...they feel better about their foods and thinks it has a better taste
point being, the organic meat industry is growing and cannot be so easily dismissed...maybe now you can, but i would argue against it at least in this concientious forum.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by:
Soya's main use in the UK is as feed for livestock. After the oil has been extracted the resulting high-protein meal is widely used in animal feed, forming an essential fuel for intensively reared cattle, pigs and poultry.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: faithinfire
pro-meat have been discounted simply because what we see as acceptable, anti-meat does not
one might even say it's discrimination
Written by: faithinfire
and personally, discounting the strawberries is a bit rash. these illegal wells are significantly reducing the water table according to the article, thereby not just hurting the land the strawberries are on but other land lower on the water table. they are grown as organic foods, but are hurting the environment...
for us the environmental cost of eating meat, we consider as acceptable as those who fly
as i said, for the most part, i do not fly, and shall continue to eat meat in moderation
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: Stone
Vegans have to eat at least five times as much food to get the same amount of protein as meat eaters.
Written by:
As you say :Written by:
Soya's main use in the UK is as feed for livestock. After the oil has been extracted the resulting high-protein meal is widely used in animal feed, forming an essential fuel for intensively reared cattle, pigs and poultry.
As far a soy beans go, the bulk of the soybeans are grown for oil production, with the high-protein defatted and "toasted" soy meal used as livestock feed ie. the soy meal is fed to animals after the oil has been extracted.
Written by:
Soybean oil is the world's most widely used edible oil. In the United States, soybean oil accounts for nearly 80% of edible oil consumption.
Almost all margarine and shortenings contain soybean oil. It also is frequently found in mayonnaise, salad dressings, frozen foods, imitation dairy and meat products and commercially baked goods.
Written by:
I think you are pointing the finger at the grain fed meat industry. Cows, sheep and other ruminants are designed to eat grass, which is pretty indigestible, that’s why the have four stomachs.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: faithinfire
well, if strawberries are produced in this manner...it stands to follow that other produce might benefit from illegal wells
Written by: faithinfire
natural or organic may not always mean better
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!