Forums > Social Discussion > Vegetarianism.... Plants have feelings too
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artisan
1,576 posts
Location: Berkshire, UK
artisan
1,576 posts
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posted:
I would just like to mention out of general irritation that some veggie friends give me. They always ask how can I have a clean conscience because I eat meat? Uusally giving me a long lasting lecture also about how much healthier it is. I have no rpoblem with the healthy part. But I would like to inform you that plants have feelings too. If you have come across kirlian photography (aura photography) you can see strands coming from them. Well we know plants are alive of course but what about other tests that have been undergone? Plants react to the atmosphere around them eg music, smells, people talking.
Albeit they are a different form of life I just wish some veggies would stop taking the moral highground because I like meat.
All I can say is I appreciate every morsel of food that passes through my lips and I wonder where it came from and how that piece of food lived.
Views people?
Heres some linkage to show I aint a complete raving loony
linky link
Oh and if there are any fruitarians about who can give me a kick up the bum then go ahead.... I respect that you try not to harm anything to get your grub.
I would just like to mention out of general irritation that some veggie friends give me. They always ask how can I have a clean conscience because I eat meat? Uusally giving me a long lasting lecture also about how much healthier it is. I have no rpoblem with the healthy part. But I would like to inform you that plants have feelings too. If you have come across kirlian photography (aura photography) you can see strands coming from them. Well we know plants are alive of course but what about other tests that have been undergone? Plants react to the atmosphere around them eg music, smells, people talking.
Albeit they are a different form of life I just wish some veggies would stop taking the moral highground because I like meat.
All I can say is I appreciate every morsel of food that passes through my lips and I wonder where it came from and how that piece of food lived.
Views people?
Heres some linkage to show I aint a complete raving loony
linky link
Oh and if there are any fruitarians about who can give me a kick up the bum then go ahead.... I respect that you try not to harm anything to get your grub.
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
I am thoroughly heartened and happy to see that an almost (IMHO) nonsensical thread has ascended into a good philosophical debate.
Nice one chums!
This would have been a flame war on any other board
Josh
EDITED_BY: Pyrolific (1170394941)
I am thoroughly heartened and happy to see that an almost (IMHO) nonsensical thread has ascended into a good philosophical debate.
Nice one chums!
This would have been a flame war on any other board
Josh
EDITED_BY: Pyrolific (1170394941)
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
You asked how many plants it takes to feed an oyster, I correctly answered "many". Why get uptight about it?
I note you persist in the argument from final consequences fallacy. Now you throw in the strawman fallacy as well. I have never contended that morals are "objective".
Written by: dreamWritten by: my last post
, unlike the situation on land, where most autotrophs are plants, phytoplankton are a diverse groupWritten by: Jeff
A significant part of the diet of oysters is detritus composed of, or originally fed by green algae, a member of the plant kingdom, and a constitutive part of plankton
These two quotes say a similar thing. Some phytoplankton are plants some are not. Some of an oysters food (or the source of its food's food) will be plant based. Some will not. So to return to my question
How many plants does it take to feed an oyster?
The answer is a number between zero and many. The amount is indeterminable unless you either monitor the entire oyster's life (and its food life, and its food's food's life etc etc) or get an honest answer from it (I have failed at this, maybe you've had more success, what's the secret technique I've been missing).
The point is that it is generally unwise to draw a definite, fixed and universal line based on indeterminate and unprovable evidence. Doing so just ends up leading to sillyness such as contemplating the indeterminable amount of suffering caused by eating an oyster.
You asked how many plants it takes to feed an oyster, I correctly answered "many". Why get uptight about it?
Written by: dreamWritten by: jeff
That a moral code seems "unfair" for being easier to apply in affluent contries is irrelevent to it's validity
This is a point of metaphysical contention regarding the possibility of a set of universal, transcendental and objective morals. You contend that morals exist outside of context - as religious doctrines have done with great popularity throughout history. I contend that morals are products of a specific historical evolutionary process, and have been conditioned by a myriad of factors throughout the course of said history. To me, morals are not a set of abstract and universal concepts - especially if those concepts confer a lower level of morality upon the global poor - but should be practical means of ethical living which will vary from person to person, and from community to community.
I note you persist in the argument from final consequences fallacy. Now you throw in the strawman fallacy as well. I have never contended that morals are "objective".
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
I would add to this:
If all meat were produced organically (same goes for crops), it would result in a massive destruction of ecosystems, since organic farming requires far greater areas of land.
Written by: onewheeldave
The question of what would happen if most meat was raised organically is somewhat hypothetical- however, precedent shows that if it were to be the case, then organic does not necessarily=non-suffering.
I would add to this:
If all meat were produced organically (same goes for crops), it would result in a massive destruction of ecosystems, since organic farming requires far greater areas of land.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
jeff, can you expand on that please? Non-organic farming results in the destruction of ecosystems, so I don't see how you can use that as an argument for or against either method.
jeff, can you expand on that please? Non-organic farming results in the destruction of ecosystems, so I don't see how you can use that as an argument for or against either method.
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Both result in habitat destruction, in this case though need for land.
Organic need more land, so would result in more destruction. (I'm presuming wide spread adoption as a primary feeding mechanism. Simply converting a farm or two to organic would only reduce yield)
Written by: Sym
jeff, can you expand on that please? Non-organic farming results in the destruction of ecosystems, so I don't see how you can use that as an argument for or against either method.
Both result in habitat destruction, in this case though need for land.
Organic need more land, so would result in more destruction. (I'm presuming wide spread adoption as a primary feeding mechanism. Simply converting a farm or two to organic would only reduce yield)
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
However...
The prevalence of large scale, non-organic, intensive meat production indicates either an absense of caring or/and a failure to appreciate the consequences of such methods.
That lack of care and ignorance of consequences applies not only to the suffering animals, but also, ultimately, to the human victims (see previous posts).
So, if organic meat production started to become the norm, it's highly likely that, in conjunction, there would be a corresponding large-scale decrease in meat eating anyway (as major motivations behind organic rearing include either caring about reducing animal suffering or about the consequences).
If so, then organic meat rearing would not adversely impact the environment.
However...
The prevalence of large scale, non-organic, intensive meat production indicates either an absense of caring or/and a failure to appreciate the consequences of such methods.
That lack of care and ignorance of consequences applies not only to the suffering animals, but also, ultimately, to the human victims (see previous posts).
So, if organic meat production started to become the norm, it's highly likely that, in conjunction, there would be a corresponding large-scale decrease in meat eating anyway (as major motivations behind organic rearing include either caring about reducing animal suffering or about the consequences).
If so, then organic meat rearing would not adversely impact the environment.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Happened upon some relevant stats whilst watching bbc news today (not saying they're 100% definite, feel free to post contrary links)-
1/3 of all arable land is used for meat production (i.e. either directly for keeping animals or for growing animal feed crops)
1/3 of all cereals grown are for animal feed
18% of greenhouse gases are livestock emmisions
Given the concern about global warming I think that close to 20% being caused by livestock farming is cause for concern.
And perhaps this is a way forward- focusing not so much on the suffering caused to the animals, but instead, also making people aware of the harmful consequences to humanity of using animals for food.
As previously mentioned, this problem will not be solved by purely switching to organic meat production (though, IMO, that will help) but by drastically lowering consumption of meat/animal produce.
It's worth noting that this does not require that everyone becomes 100% vegetarian or 100% vegan- it's more about-
1. eradicating the misconception that (in most cases) meat is necessary, or even beneficial, to health
2. coming to see meat/animal produce as being an occasional part of the diet
3. making it well known what the real consequences of meat/animal production are, both to the animals, to the environment and to humanity.
Happened upon some relevant stats whilst watching bbc news today (not saying they're 100% definite, feel free to post contrary links)-
1/3 of all arable land is used for meat production (i.e. either directly for keeping animals or for growing animal feed crops)
1/3 of all cereals grown are for animal feed
18% of greenhouse gases are livestock emmisions
Given the concern about global warming I think that close to 20% being caused by livestock farming is cause for concern.
And perhaps this is a way forward- focusing not so much on the suffering caused to the animals, but instead, also making people aware of the harmful consequences to humanity of using animals for food.
As previously mentioned, this problem will not be solved by purely switching to organic meat production (though, IMO, that will help) but by drastically lowering consumption of meat/animal produce.
It's worth noting that this does not require that everyone becomes 100% vegetarian or 100% vegan- it's more about-
1. eradicating the misconception that (in most cases) meat is necessary, or even beneficial, to health
2. coming to see meat/animal produce as being an occasional part of the diet
3. making it well known what the real consequences of meat/animal production are, both to the animals, to the environment and to humanity.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
i will never give up my omnivorous ways...give me a steak any time of day
personally, and that is it, perhaps here in wisconsin we just don't do it as well, but i have yet to see a healthy looking vegitarian, they all look wan
i've had to put animals down at the pet store...not the same but similar and i would kill an animal for food if i had to
i've worked on a farm...the animals were fine, their barn was nicer than the house
i will never give up my omnivorous ways...give me a steak any time of day
personally, and that is it, perhaps here in wisconsin we just don't do it as well, but i have yet to see a healthy looking vegitarian, they all look wan
i've had to put animals down at the pet store...not the same but similar and i would kill an animal for food if i had to
i've worked on a farm...the animals were fine, their barn was nicer than the house
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Personally I go more for the: "It's not so much about how you look"
Switching to a more balanced diet will stop a
load of suffering - which (in the end) will be accumulated in stress hormones and sit right in front of ourselves (just to mention the cold facts)...
Personally I switched from meatloving to vegetarianism (except for poultry and fish) and that was mainly because I visited a slaughterhouse on my 28th birthday... Certainly I would be able to kill for food for survival - I guess most would be - but there is no necessity at this point. Now I'm back to the entire food range - but IMHO with a "healthy" balance, little to no pork and beef.
I guess your summary is very much to the point OWD - meat certainly doesn't have to be a vital part of our daily diet.
Given the way animals are treated before they are slaughtered/ killed (at least in Europe) - all the transportation involved, the fact that they get fed their own kind (as non-meat based animals) and certainly the way in witch they get slaughtered is simply disgusting, but that's what we get when we industrialize the meat industry.
Organic "farming" is the way to go.
18% of the greenhouse gases are from livestock emissions? I am not quite sure about the number, but this might get exploited for "biogas" plants and production of electricity (wondering why this is not done already)...
One friend of mine put it nicely: "You're only a vegetarian, because your cucumber can't scream."
Valid point I think 
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1170471231)
Personally I go more for the: "It's not so much about how you look"
Switching to a more balanced diet will stop a
load of suffering - which (in the end) will be accumulated in stress hormones and sit right in front of ourselves (just to mention the cold facts)...Personally I switched from meatloving to vegetarianism (except for poultry and fish) and that was mainly because I visited a slaughterhouse on my 28th birthday... Certainly I would be able to kill for food for survival - I guess most would be - but there is no necessity at this point. Now I'm back to the entire food range - but IMHO with a "healthy" balance, little to no pork and beef.
I guess your summary is very much to the point OWD - meat certainly doesn't have to be a vital part of our daily diet.
Given the way animals are treated before they are slaughtered/ killed (at least in Europe) - all the transportation involved, the fact that they get fed their own kind (as non-meat based animals) and certainly the way in witch they get slaughtered is simply disgusting, but that's what we get when we industrialize the meat industry.
Organic "farming" is the way to go.
18% of the greenhouse gases are from livestock emissions? I am not quite sure about the number, but this might get exploited for "biogas" plants and production of electricity (wondering why this is not done already)...
One friend of mine put it nicely: "You're only a vegetarian, because your cucumber can't scream."
Valid point I think EDITED_BY: FireTom (1170471231)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
let me rephrase what i said with previous clauses about being in wisconsin, but the vegitarians were very sickly looking-that i knew. if the diet makes you look unhealthy, then something is missing.
i'm sure it can be suplimented with pill or a reorganization of diet, but some do not do that. many had health problems
but anyways...that has just been my experience
let me rephrase what i said with previous clauses about being in wisconsin, but the vegitarians were very sickly looking-that i knew. if the diet makes you look unhealthy, then something is missing.
i'm sure it can be suplimented with pill or a reorganization of diet, but some do not do that. many had health problems
but anyways...that has just been my experience
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
In the UK, back in the days when there were more misconceptions about vegetarianism, and vegetarians were generally considered either finnicky or downright strange, it was common view that vegetarians were sickly/pasty looking.
These days of course there's so many people thriving on veggie diets, including models and atheletes, along with the clear medical evidence that, in most cases, vegetarian diets are healthier than non-veggie diets.
I suspect that any truth to the sickly/pasty claims in the old days, were due to the fact that, with all the prejudice and misconceptions against vegetarianism, that only those who really cared would ignore the peer pressure and actually become veggie.
That would generally be the most sensitive people and generally, especially amongst the young, that kind of sensitivity and compassion tends to arise through personal suffering.
For example, the suffering of being a sickly individual, especially if you live in a culture that is prejudiced against those who look unusually pale or sicky.
ie if ever it was/is the case that veggies in a given area do look pale/sickly, it's going to be because, in that area, pale/sickly people are drawn to vegetarianism, rather than vegetarianism causing ill-health.
If Wisconsin vegetarians do look ill/sickly, i'm afraid that says more about Wisconsin that it does about vegetarianism
Vegetarianism is good for health- that's established and proven medical fact.
It's a myth that vegetarians require any more specil supplements than meat-eaters do- a good, balanced vegetarian diet provides all nutrients necessary to health.
Conversely, many of those who include meat in their diet, suffer effects of malnutrition due to their diet not being balanced.
At the end of the day, whether meat-eater or veggie, what matters is whether your diet is good or bad, and a good diet is at least as easy to achieve as a vegetarian, as it is as a meat-eater.
Written by: faithinfire
let me rephrase what i said with previous clauses about being in wisconsin, but the vegitarians were very sickly looking-that i knew. if the diet makes you look unhealthy, then something is missing.
i'm sure it can be suplimented with pill or a reorganization of diet, but some do not do that. many had health problems
but anyways...that has just been my experience
In the UK, back in the days when there were more misconceptions about vegetarianism, and vegetarians were generally considered either finnicky or downright strange, it was common view that vegetarians were sickly/pasty looking.
These days of course there's so many people thriving on veggie diets, including models and atheletes, along with the clear medical evidence that, in most cases, vegetarian diets are healthier than non-veggie diets.
I suspect that any truth to the sickly/pasty claims in the old days, were due to the fact that, with all the prejudice and misconceptions against vegetarianism, that only those who really cared would ignore the peer pressure and actually become veggie.
That would generally be the most sensitive people and generally, especially amongst the young, that kind of sensitivity and compassion tends to arise through personal suffering.
For example, the suffering of being a sickly individual, especially if you live in a culture that is prejudiced against those who look unusually pale or sicky.
ie if ever it was/is the case that veggies in a given area do look pale/sickly, it's going to be because, in that area, pale/sickly people are drawn to vegetarianism, rather than vegetarianism causing ill-health.
If Wisconsin vegetarians do look ill/sickly, i'm afraid that says more about Wisconsin that it does about vegetarianism
Vegetarianism is good for health- that's established and proven medical fact.
It's a myth that vegetarians require any more specil supplements than meat-eaters do- a good, balanced vegetarian diet provides all nutrients necessary to health.
Conversely, many of those who include meat in their diet, suffer effects of malnutrition due to their diet not being balanced.
At the end of the day, whether meat-eater or veggie, what matters is whether your diet is good or bad, and a good diet is at least as easy to achieve as a vegetarian, as it is as a meat-eater.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Myth Busters did a multi-week well rounded test of this theory and busted it out of the water.
My high school biology class did as well.
So did my college botany class.
That being said, if I wasn't meant to eat meat, my body wouldn't be built to do so. I also find that I not only feel healthier but do better when I eat meat vs. not.
Being a vegetarian does not equate to being healthier. I've known several who were overweight and out of shape, and even a few of those were vegan. A bad diet is a bad diet, irregardless of your pro-con stance in this.
I have stayed with vegans and veggies. I have cooked meat in their kitchens (with permission), making sure to completely sterlize everything when I was done. They don't lecture me, I don't lecture them. It's all about respect...and unfortunately some people simply do not have it for the choices others make.
Written by: Little_Miss_Nebula
Plants react to the atmosphere around them eg music, smells, people talking.
Myth Busters did a multi-week well rounded test of this theory and busted it out of the water.
My high school biology class did as well.
So did my college botany class.
That being said, if I wasn't meant to eat meat, my body wouldn't be built to do so. I also find that I not only feel healthier but do better when I eat meat vs. not.
Being a vegetarian does not equate to being healthier. I've known several who were overweight and out of shape, and even a few of those were vegan. A bad diet is a bad diet, irregardless of your pro-con stance in this.
I have stayed with vegans and veggies. I have cooked meat in their kitchens (with permission), making sure to completely sterlize everything when I was done. They don't lecture me, I don't lecture them. It's all about respect...and unfortunately some people simply do not have it for the choices others make.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I should perhaps point out that I'm not a vegetarian myself, as I occasionally eat fish.
I used to be one and, for a time, I was also a vegan. The amount of misunderstanding and, occasionally, prejudice, I encountered from meat-eating members of my family, was pretty alarming.
Some people genuinely believe that, if you cut out meat, you're going to get ill.
As Pele points out, what matters is whether your diet is good or not.
There are bad veggie diets, just as much as there are bad meat containing diets.
If you eat junk, you'll get ill, whether that junk is veggie or whether it contains meat.
If you over-eat and eat loads of fatty or sugary junk, you'll get fat, veggie or non-veggie.
What isn't true, is that vegetarians are somehow more likely to suffer ill-health, or that a vegetarian is in more need of supplements that a meat-eater- that's a myth and a very common one.
If you eat a good, balanced veggie diet, you'll be fine (unless you have some minor medical condition that means you need meat).
If you eat a deficient, unbalanced veggie diet, then you'll get ill, but no more so than if you eat a deficient, unbalanced meat containing diet.
Of course, that's a completely seperate issue from the animal-suffering and environmental consequences of our meat industry.
I should perhaps point out that I'm not a vegetarian myself, as I occasionally eat fish.
I used to be one and, for a time, I was also a vegan. The amount of misunderstanding and, occasionally, prejudice, I encountered from meat-eating members of my family, was pretty alarming.
Some people genuinely believe that, if you cut out meat, you're going to get ill.
As Pele points out, what matters is whether your diet is good or not.
There are bad veggie diets, just as much as there are bad meat containing diets.
If you eat junk, you'll get ill, whether that junk is veggie or whether it contains meat.
If you over-eat and eat loads of fatty or sugary junk, you'll get fat, veggie or non-veggie.
What isn't true, is that vegetarians are somehow more likely to suffer ill-health, or that a vegetarian is in more need of supplements that a meat-eater- that's a myth and a very common one.
If you eat a good, balanced veggie diet, you'll be fine (unless you have some minor medical condition that means you need meat).
If you eat a deficient, unbalanced veggie diet, then you'll get ill, but no more so than if you eat a deficient, unbalanced meat containing diet.
Of course, that's a completely seperate issue from the animal-suffering and environmental consequences of our meat industry.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Strange enough I am likely to disagree with you on ONE point you're making - even though I support pretty much everything else that you have been stating.
As far as my informations go, there are a few, if not only one amino-acid that you can't get on a pure veggie based diet: Kreatin or Keratin, I guess was it's name and is responsible for building up muscles in the body.
I would like to repeat that to the individual itself, it clearly doesn't matter how they look (apart from the outside projection of others, who can't see beyond the shell), but how they feel inside. Personally I rather have interaction with somebody looking palish (and being a nice person), than with someone looking all stuffed up (and being aggressive).
The true fact is, that the stress hormones of the animals are in the meat we're eating and this certainly has an effect on ourselves. But - as OWD pointed out - there are bad quality veggies and there is good quality meat (which is rarely to be found in the Coles and Woolies meat department) - if you want to eat meat, choose your supply carefully, same applies to veggies.
A 2kg steak for a buck is most likely NOT "harvested" in an appropriate manner
Strange enough I am likely to disagree with you on ONE point you're making - even though I support pretty much everything else that you have been stating.
As far as my informations go, there are a few, if not only one amino-acid that you can't get on a pure veggie based diet: Kreatin or Keratin, I guess was it's name and is responsible for building up muscles in the body.
I would like to repeat that to the individual itself, it clearly doesn't matter how they look (apart from the outside projection of others, who can't see beyond the shell), but how they feel inside. Personally I rather have interaction with somebody looking palish (and being a nice person), than with someone looking all stuffed up (and being aggressive).
The true fact is, that the stress hormones of the animals are in the meat we're eating and this certainly has an effect on ourselves. But - as OWD pointed out - there are bad quality veggies and there is good quality meat (which is rarely to be found in the Coles and Woolies meat department) - if you want to eat meat, choose your supply carefully, same applies to veggies.
A 2kg steak for a buck is most likely NOT "harvested" in an appropriate manner
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Neither kreatine nor keratine are amino acids
Not sure which one it is, but basically, if a diet has to be supplemented, it is not a healthy diet. A vegan diet for example does not contain enough vitamin B12, which is why vegans get asked to supplement it. Especially children have problems with B12-deficiency, and you will get asked to supplement it before operations if you don't already do. If you don't they may wake up from narcosis with serious problems.
https://www.veganhealth.org/b12/cases
I know there's probably many opposite examples of healthy vegan babies, but I personally know of one case where a girl nearly killed her unborn child with her vegan diet.
(https://www.childbirthsolutions.com/articles/pregnancy/vegandiet/index.php in case anyone should wonder how to eat vegan during pregnancy WITHOUT harming yourself and your baby)
It's up to everyone how they eat, but I'd advocate letting your children have a more complete diet until they're old enough to make up their own minds about what they want to eat and realise the importance of supplements.
Neither kreatine nor keratine are amino acids
Not sure which one it is, but basically, if a diet has to be supplemented, it is not a healthy diet. A vegan diet for example does not contain enough vitamin B12, which is why vegans get asked to supplement it. Especially children have problems with B12-deficiency, and you will get asked to supplement it before operations if you don't already do. If you don't they may wake up from narcosis with serious problems.
https://www.veganhealth.org/b12/cases
I know there's probably many opposite examples of healthy vegan babies, but I personally know of one case where a girl nearly killed her unborn child with her vegan diet.
(https://www.childbirthsolutions.com/articles/pregnancy/vegandiet/index.php in case anyone should wonder how to eat vegan during pregnancy WITHOUT harming yourself and your baby)
It's up to everyone how they eat, but I'd advocate letting your children have a more complete diet until they're old enough to make up their own minds about what they want to eat and realise the importance of supplements.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
of course you are right, it does depend on your diet veg or omni...but...
just because i am in wisconsin doesn't mean that these people were from wisconsin, i was sort of kidding when i implied we don't know how to eat a proper veg diet...the college i went to was well known for it's environmental and conservation
in two of my classes, i was one of two omnivores. much of the class had anemia, or low immune systems...my neighbor and my cousin both look pale. there are those that are healthy looking but from my experience it is not the majority...
then again, there are probably many people i don't know are vegitarians and look just fine
maybe it's just the sickly ones that feel the need to explain themselves because they look sickly
of course you are right, it does depend on your diet veg or omni...but...
just because i am in wisconsin doesn't mean that these people were from wisconsin, i was sort of kidding when i implied we don't know how to eat a proper veg diet...the college i went to was well known for it's environmental and conservation
in two of my classes, i was one of two omnivores. much of the class had anemia, or low immune systems...my neighbor and my cousin both look pale. there are those that are healthy looking but from my experience it is not the majority...
then again, there are probably many people i don't know are vegitarians and look just fine
maybe it's just the sickly ones that feel the need to explain themselves because they look sickly
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Your body can commit murder. It's a moral issue, not a physical one. I'm veggie but if it was a matter of survival I would take a life and eat meat.
The fact is it's not, it's a matter of choice. I choose not to support the killing of animals to satisfy certain tastes in me. In my mind that is the most moral thing for me to do.
I also accept that others don't share my attitude and that's cool too. I don't like that others eat meat but I accept it and don't try to change their minds about it. Funnily enough, meat-eaters spend a LOT of time trying to tell me I'm wrong/stupid/wasting my life/a wimp/gay (yeah, nice)/not a real man for being a veggie. Perhaps it's worth examining this phenomenon, particularly in the context of this thread (OP at least). Perhaps because the norm is omnivor..osity (?!) no-one seems to care when minorities are challenged for their differences. Myself included, to be fair, but it's as big/bigger a phenomenon than veggies trying to "convert" others, at least in my experience.
I choose not to eat things of the same order of life as me, despite the fact I could if I wanted to. To me it is an unpleasant thought and one which I cannot feel emotionally comfortable with. I don't think the fact that plants are also alive makes me a hypocrite, which is what seems to be being implied. We all have to eat something. We're lucky enough in the west (largely) to have a choice. I choose one which doesn't end the lives of animals.
All calorific energy comes from photosynthesis, be it plant or animal. By choosing just to eat the plant and not possibly be making something else suffer for our personal taste, I feel more morally secure. I don't see a problem with that, so long as I don't foist it upon others. Please don't try and make me feel bad because someone's taken some photos. We all have to eat something! I'm just choosing to eat something which doesn't exhibit pain or suffering behaviours. And isn't essentially the same thing as me. I like life. I imagine so do other animals. Plants - not so sure
Written by: Pele
That being said, if I wasn't meant to eat meat, my body wouldn't be built to do so.
Your body can commit murder. It's a moral issue, not a physical one. I'm veggie but if it was a matter of survival I would take a life and eat meat.
The fact is it's not, it's a matter of choice. I choose not to support the killing of animals to satisfy certain tastes in me. In my mind that is the most moral thing for me to do.
I also accept that others don't share my attitude and that's cool too. I don't like that others eat meat but I accept it and don't try to change their minds about it. Funnily enough, meat-eaters spend a LOT of time trying to tell me I'm wrong/stupid/wasting my life/a wimp/gay (yeah, nice)/not a real man for being a veggie. Perhaps it's worth examining this phenomenon, particularly in the context of this thread (OP at least). Perhaps because the norm is omnivor..osity (?!) no-one seems to care when minorities are challenged for their differences. Myself included, to be fair, but it's as big/bigger a phenomenon than veggies trying to "convert" others, at least in my experience.
I choose not to eat things of the same order of life as me, despite the fact I could if I wanted to. To me it is an unpleasant thought and one which I cannot feel emotionally comfortable with.
I don't think the fact that plants are also alive makes me a hypocrite, which is what seems to be being implied. We all have to eat something. We're lucky enough in the west (largely) to have a choice. I choose one which doesn't end the lives of animals.All calorific energy comes from photosynthesis, be it plant or animal. By choosing just to eat the plant and not possibly be making something else suffer for our personal taste, I feel more morally secure. I don't see a problem with that, so long as I don't foist it upon others. Please don't try and make me feel bad because someone's taken some photos. We all have to eat something! I'm just choosing to eat something which doesn't exhibit pain or suffering behaviours. And isn't essentially the same thing as me. I like life. I imagine so do other animals. Plants - not so sure
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
should have given more specific info:
Creatin is some nitrogenous organic acid which seems to play a vital role in building up muscles.
WikInfo about Creatine
should have given more specific info:Creatin is some nitrogenous organic acid which seems to play a vital role in building up muscles.
WikInfo about Creatine
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
oh i remember someone saying something about that, their doctor was mad
i've asked vegetarians why, but i never tried to convert them...they always tried to convert me...i guess it's all about who you know :P
oh i remember someone saying something about that, their doctor was mad
i've asked vegetarians why, but i never tried to convert them...they always tried to convert me...i guess it's all about who you know :P
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
_kevlarsoul_, I absolutely refuse to be brought into a moral issue discussion on this topic. I will point out that the fact that your experience about veggies not being pushy on meat eaters might be because you are one. Usually religious zealots don't try to convert those who are already in their church, right? Same here.
Truth be told, I am tired of hearing the "because it's cruel" line. So is the production of cotton clothes and of junk food, and many supposedly "organic" foods. I am of the opinion that this is much like religion, sexuality and politics, make your choice and do it. Eat meat or don't. I don't need to know about it unless I am cooking for you.
My point is that if we were not meant to eat meat, as many vegs that I know have pointed out, my body would not be designed to do so.
No matter what we put into our bodies, it is a choice..from what we eat and drink, to what drugs we take, to every other facet of life...it's all a choice. I don't need announcements, banners and flags or people debating with me over why their choice is better than mine..because unless they switch bodies with me, they won't know that...ever.
Brigit, you bring up a wonderful point about children.
When I stay in Az with the vegan friends there was a child in the house. She wasn't vegan *but* ate like one due to the adults she was around. Her grandfather told me she is actually not overly healthy because her diet wasn't supplimented or well balanced, especially during growth spurts. And she loved meat. The first time I cooked it there, she came in and begged to have some (which I have no issue with obviously). I do fear that some parents may not fully concider the rammifications on the health of their children, veggie or not. A kids diet of nothing but meat, potatoes and junk food is not healthy either.
It's about choice, balance and respect...for all of it... vegetables, meat, fruit and everything in the middle. If I were to make a moral dilemma over everything I ate or drank, because let me tell you...veggie farms kill animals too...I'd starve. Instead I choose to live and enjoy and realise I accept my part of the food chain. I know how to eat to feel my best (though I may not always do it lol) and really don't care what others think, or eat, unless it is my son.
My only wish, that more people focussed on living their own lives vs. arguing about how others *should* live theirs.
_kevlarsoul_, I absolutely refuse to be brought into a moral issue discussion on this topic. I will point out that the fact that your experience about veggies not being pushy on meat eaters might be because you are one. Usually religious zealots don't try to convert those who are already in their church, right? Same here.
Truth be told, I am tired of hearing the "because it's cruel" line. So is the production of cotton clothes and of junk food, and many supposedly "organic" foods. I am of the opinion that this is much like religion, sexuality and politics, make your choice and do it. Eat meat or don't. I don't need to know about it unless I am cooking for you.
My point is that if we were not meant to eat meat, as many vegs that I know have pointed out, my body would not be designed to do so.
No matter what we put into our bodies, it is a choice..from what we eat and drink, to what drugs we take, to every other facet of life...it's all a choice. I don't need announcements, banners and flags or people debating with me over why their choice is better than mine..because unless they switch bodies with me, they won't know that...ever.
Brigit, you bring up a wonderful point about children.
When I stay in Az with the vegan friends there was a child in the house. She wasn't vegan *but* ate like one due to the adults she was around. Her grandfather told me she is actually not overly healthy because her diet wasn't supplimented or well balanced, especially during growth spurts. And she loved meat. The first time I cooked it there, she came in and begged to have some (which I have no issue with obviously). I do fear that some parents may not fully concider the rammifications on the health of their children, veggie or not. A kids diet of nothing but meat, potatoes and junk food is not healthy either.
It's about choice, balance and respect...for all of it... vegetables, meat, fruit and everything in the middle. If I were to make a moral dilemma over everything I ate or drank, because let me tell you...veggie farms kill animals too...I'd starve. Instead I choose to live and enjoy and realise I accept my part of the food chain. I know how to eat to feel my best (though I may not always do it lol) and really don't care what others think, or eat, unless it is my son.
My only wish, that more people focussed on living their own lives vs. arguing about how others *should* live theirs.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
ummmm are you saying that because you don't suffer from the deficiency, no one does?
just wondering
ummmm are you saying that because you don't suffer from the deficiency, no one does?
just wondering
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
ie- If you eat meat you get some of your creatine from food- if you don't eat meat, your liver produces it.
The supplementation issue is very simple- vegetarians are in no more need of supplements than meat eaters are (with possible exceptions for some medical conditions).
A good veggie diet provides all necessary nutrients.
The fact that, historically, whole communities have lived their entire lives and thrived on vegetarian diets (for example, many buddhist communities) indicates the truth of this.
In the past, there was a lot of prejuduce and misunderstanding about meat-free diets; one of which was that those who didn't eat meat either required supplements, or, that they had to be especially careful with their diet to avoid malnutrition (more so than meat-eaters).
These days we know better- if someone's suffering malnutrition, it's purely cos they're eating a bad diet and as many meat-eaters suffer from that as do vegetarians.
In the UK, the medical profession is currently encouraging people to cut meat consumption for the same reason it encourages them to quit smoking- cos they believe it will improve the health of the public.
Written by: wiki article
In humans, typically half of stored creatine originates from food (mainly from meat and fish). However, endogenous synthesis of creatine in the liver is sufficient for normal activities. This is evidenced by the fact that, even though vegetables do not contain creatine, vegetarians do not suffer from creatine deficiency.
ie- If you eat meat you get some of your creatine from food- if you don't eat meat, your liver produces it.
The supplementation issue is very simple- vegetarians are in no more need of supplements than meat eaters are (with possible exceptions for some medical conditions).
A good veggie diet provides all necessary nutrients.
The fact that, historically, whole communities have lived their entire lives and thrived on vegetarian diets (for example, many buddhist communities) indicates the truth of this.
In the past, there was a lot of prejuduce and misunderstanding about meat-free diets; one of which was that those who didn't eat meat either required supplements, or, that they had to be especially careful with their diet to avoid malnutrition (more so than meat-eaters).
These days we know better- if someone's suffering malnutrition, it's purely cos they're eating a bad diet and as many meat-eaters suffer from that as do vegetarians.
In the UK, the medical profession is currently encouraging people to cut meat consumption for the same reason it encourages them to quit smoking- cos they believe it will improve the health of the public.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Spanner, basically you're agreeing with me, yes? Just arguing that I should've said "her BAD vegan diet" instead of "her vegan diet", which already specifies it to HER diet and definitely did harm the poor unborn child... And I even put the disclaimer in the same post that there are healthy babies of vegan mothers, I mean, come on, seriously, how much more obvious can I be to state that it's not due to just being vegan, but being vegan and neglecting the specific needs of a becoming mother?!?
Personally though I've never met anyone who ONLY ate meat. But nevermind... I think this is just splitting hairs and quite obviously missing my point which I've made by posting a link to responsible vegan eating during pregnancy.
Pele, your post reminds me of stories of children eating wallpaper because it had elements not present in their diet, or women of an African tribe eating soil because it contained essential metals (zinc or aluminium, can't remember which one) they didn't get enough of during pregnancy. Basically, your body knows what it needs, so it often will go for "weird" foods during times when it needs them. Too tired to find a link right now, but I did read that choccie cravings during periods for example are to do with iron deficiency and subside if you eat more meat. (hop-discussion-forums-disclaimer, not saying anyone should eat more meat because of that...)
Spanner, basically you're agreeing with me, yes? Just arguing that I should've said "her BAD vegan diet" instead of "her vegan diet", which already specifies it to HER diet and definitely did harm the poor unborn child... And I even put the disclaimer in the same post that there are healthy babies of vegan mothers, I mean, come on, seriously, how much more obvious can I be to state that it's not due to just being vegan, but being vegan and neglecting the specific needs of a becoming mother?!?
Personally though I've never met anyone who ONLY ate meat. But nevermind... I think this is just splitting hairs and quite obviously missing my point which I've made by posting a link to responsible vegan eating during pregnancy.
Pele, your post reminds me of stories of children eating wallpaper because it had elements not present in their diet, or women of an African tribe eating soil because it contained essential metals (zinc or aluminium, can't remember which one) they didn't get enough of during pregnancy. Basically, your body knows what it needs, so it often will go for "weird" foods during times when it needs them. Too tired to find a link right now, but I did read that choccie cravings during periods for example are to do with iron deficiency and subside if you eat more meat. (hop-discussion-forums-disclaimer, not saying anyone should eat more meat because of that...)
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
I've seen/read alot about that as well. There was a nutritional study released recently that stated that there is, to date, no scientific support to the statement that cravings are linked to a deficiency.
However, I believe that there does need to be more studies on it. I know that when suffering fatigue and mild headaches that if I eat something iron rich like dark, leafy greens or red meat that they tend to subside, especially around that time. I also know that I crave salt when I am heading down a dehydration road, and if I drink more the craving goes away.
However, either way there is an omni or a veggie help for it.
Where people assume that veggies are/can be imbalanced to the detriment of health, so are meat eating diets. Let's look at Atkins, which removes carbs from the diet and has been linked to increases in liver issues, increases in cholesterol and an increase protein based kidney stones.
Which brings us back around to the fact that if you take the basic nutrients that our bodies need and eat in a balanced way, you *should* be relatively healthy (like those disclaimers? ).
Written by: Birgit
Pele, your post reminds me of stories of children eating wallpaper because it had elements not present in their diet, or women of an African tribe eating soil because it contained essential metals (zinc or aluminium, can't remember which one) they didn't get enough of during pregnancy. Basically, your body knows what it needs, so it often will go for "weird" foods during times when it needs them. Too tired to find a link right now, but I did read that choccie cravings during periods for example are to do with iron deficiency and subside if you eat more meat. (hop-discussion-forums-disclaimer, not saying anyone should eat more meat because of that...)
I've seen/read alot about that as well. There was a nutritional study released recently that stated that there is, to date, no scientific support to the statement that cravings are linked to a deficiency.
However, I believe that there does need to be more studies on it. I know that when suffering fatigue and mild headaches that if I eat something iron rich like dark, leafy greens or red meat that they tend to subside, especially around that time. I also know that I crave salt when I am heading down a dehydration road, and if I drink more the craving goes away.
However, either way there is an omni or a veggie help for it.
Where people assume that veggies are/can be imbalanced to the detriment of health, so are meat eating diets. Let's look at Atkins, which removes carbs from the diet and has been linked to increases in liver issues, increases in cholesterol and an increase protein based kidney stones.
Which brings us back around to the fact that if you take the basic nutrients that our bodies need and eat in a balanced way, you *should* be relatively healthy (like those disclaimers?
). Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
oooooooooh don't get me started on Atkins. Here's from my article on annoying things about women's magazines... not to be taken entirely seriously since the main point of the article was to make people laugh.
There's also a good Foamy the Squirrel ("Fatkins").
https://scarysquirrel.home.comcast.net/fatkins1.html
(feel free to remove if unsuitable, he does tend to swear quite a lot...)
oooooooooh don't get me started on Atkins. Here's from my article on annoying things about women's magazines... not to be taken entirely seriously since the main point of the article was to make people laugh.
Written by: myself. Published in November.
3. The Atkins diet, representing all one-sided diets. In the world.
I’ll get to the point with this one or I will rant on for pages. There is nothing wrong with carbs. The most important biochemical reactions in our bodies are based on carbohydrates and how to get energy from them. It’s what the whole breathing and oxygen thing is all about. If you eat more calories than you burn, you will get fat. It won’t matter if they are carbs, fat, or protein.
If you eat only protein and fat, your body will burn those, of course. Part of them will go into the “gluconeogenesis”, a process in which the deprived body makes the carbs you don’t feed it. And if someone ever praises that “light feeling” they get during the Atkins diet, this is a mix of being hypoglycaemic, and poisoning the body with ketones and acids which lower your pH, hence the term “ketoacidosis”. It’s a symptom in diseases such as untreated diabetes.
But go on ahead and do it to yourselves, and buy “low carb diet chocolate bars” containing 17% glycerol that other, more-sensible-than-you women would only get into their body in the form of lubricants.
There's also a good Foamy the Squirrel ("Fatkins").
https://scarysquirrel.home.comcast.net/fatkins1.html
(feel free to remove if unsuitable, he does tend to swear quite a lot...)
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
I'm going to have to disagree with your logic on this matter. Cruelty in agriculture or clothing would not exonerate cruelty in the name of meat, and neither does the fact that humans evolved to take advantage of meat (see tu quoque and appeal to nature). It may be true that humans require a certain amount of meat to remain healthy, but that doesn't mean we can't try and minimise the level of animal suffering needed to do it.
Written by: Pele
Truth be told, I am tired of hearing the "because it's cruel" line. So is the production of cotton clothes and of junk food, and many supposedly "organic" foods. I am of the opinion that this is much like religion, sexuality and politics, make your choice and do it. Eat meat or don't. I don't need to know about it unless I am cooking for you.
My point is that if we were not meant to eat meat, as many vegs that I know have pointed out, my body would not be designed to do so.
I'm going to have to disagree with your logic on this matter. Cruelty in agriculture or clothing would not exonerate cruelty in the name of meat, and neither does the fact that humans evolved to take advantage of meat (see tu quoque and appeal to nature). It may be true that humans require a certain amount of meat to remain healthy, but that doesn't mean we can't try and minimise the level of animal suffering needed to do it.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
Posted:
Continueing of topic--you know, Birgit, recent research has demonstrated that the idea of total calories in vs. calories expended equation as the sole accounting of weight gain is way over simplistic. Certain genetic types use calories from certain foods( proteins, carbs fats etc, very differently. Some of that research show that what form of calories you eat ( and when) can make a radical difference in weight gain or loss ( for some people) .
Not suggesting that in support of any particular diet, certainly not the Atkins. But pointing out that that caloric formula is now bring tossed by many obesity researchers, thought to be so drastically over simplistic as to be useless.
Continueing of topic--you know, Birgit, recent research has demonstrated that the idea of total calories in vs. calories expended equation as the sole accounting of weight gain is way over simplistic. Certain genetic types use calories from certain foods( proteins, carbs fats etc, very differently. Some of that research show that what form of calories you eat ( and when) can make a radical difference in weight gain or loss ( for some people) .
Not suggesting that in support of any particular diet, certainly not the Atkins. But pointing out that that caloric formula is now bring tossed by many obesity researchers, thought to be so drastically over simplistic as to be useless.
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
and it says in the subtitle that it's about one-sided diets. Like, making ONE type of source of calories seem like the devil that needs to be avoided at all cost (health included).
Though in the end, things like WHEN you eat calories will very obviously influence if you get the chance to burn them, so I see no contradiction there.
EDITED_BY: Birgit (1170679003)
Written by: Birgit
not to be taken entirely seriously since the main point of the article was to make people laugh.
and it says in the subtitle that it's about one-sided diets. Like, making ONE type of source of calories seem like the devil that needs to be avoided at all cost (health included).
Though in the end, things like WHEN you eat calories will very obviously influence if you get the chance to burn them, so I see no contradiction there.
EDITED_BY: Birgit (1170679003)
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
It just sometimes gets frustrating if you're trying to contribute to a discussion and try and make it very clear that you're not generalising, and get a response that says you shouldn't be generalising, but nevermind...
yeah, it is a form of pica, and with the soil it's called geophagy or geophagia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophagy
Seems like people are still disagreeing on whether it can be beneficial, or overall the risk of infection from bacteria in the ground is higher than any potential benefits.
It just sometimes gets frustrating if you're trying to contribute to a discussion and try and make it very clear that you're not generalising, and get a response that says you shouldn't be generalising, but nevermind...
yeah, it is a form of pica, and with the soil it's called geophagy or geophagia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophagy
Seems like people are still disagreeing on whether it can be beneficial, or overall the risk of infection from bacteria in the ground is higher than any potential benefits.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
(someone i heard of (friend of friend) thoughts of drinking some poisonous liquid, like drain cleaner while she was pregnant...it wasn't suicidal but a craving...doctor said it was an acute case of pica, my cousin had all sorts of wierd cravings)
see i was looking for the creatine quote and i didn't say it, if i had i wouldn't have posted that-sorry
and ultimately, while simplistic the caloric formula is right. if you eat more calories than you burn, you get fat. therefore it is important to consider how your body breaks down the food you put in it and how long it takes. this takes into account the when and what. if you eat ice cream in the afternoon before a run, you might get a boost of sugar energy and tire, but the calories would be more likely burnt off than if you ate it before bed. i believe sugars and fats break down quickly and that is why people gain weight, because it gets stored rather than used.
this is why i advocate ice cream sundaes for breakfast
where did this discussion start and where is it heading?
(someone i heard of (friend of friend) thoughts of drinking some poisonous liquid, like drain cleaner while she was pregnant...it wasn't suicidal but a craving...doctor said it was an acute case of pica, my cousin had all sorts of wierd cravings)
see i was looking for the creatine quote and i didn't say it, if i had i wouldn't have posted that-sorry
and ultimately, while simplistic the caloric formula is right. if you eat more calories than you burn, you get fat. therefore it is important to consider how your body breaks down the food you put in it and how long it takes. this takes into account the when and what. if you eat ice cream in the afternoon before a run, you might get a boost of sugar energy and tire, but the calories would be more likely burnt off than if you ate it before bed. i believe sugars and fats break down quickly and that is why people gain weight, because it gets stored rather than used.
this is why i advocate ice cream sundaes for breakfast
where did this discussion start and where is it heading?
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
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