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the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
So here in the little bip on the radar screen Rochester has the ten oclock news. I *never* watch the news because, well, it's depressing. However they do those blurbs in the beginning and it said "Tatoo's and our youth, can they help us identify problem causing children?" Ummm....Excuse me??So I watched it thinking that it had to be a misinterpretation on my part and low and behold, it wasn't. There was an actual section of the evening news about how tatoos and piercings are signs of violent and trouble making "children", or those prone to addictive and disruptive personalities. The report went on to say that the younger the person getting the tatoo the more likely they are to act out against society instead of being a productive member of the human race. Argh!!! I was already inflamed after watching a show on zero tolerance and this just put me off the deep end. In NYS a person can not legally get a tatoo under the age of 18 and if we are predisposed to be violent, it shows way before then. I got my tatoo when I was 18, and have often been part of conversations where people put down tatoos without realising I have one. I know I am not a trouble maker, and i take offense to being called a non-productive member of society because I chose to decorate my body with a daily reminder. It seems by the day that minds are closing tighter and tighter, distrust and fear are running rampant and I am at my wits end about what to do. *sigh*I think I need to go email that damn news station.Sorry, needed to vent and I think I scared my housemates with my reaction!!! 
------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...
So here in the little bip on the radar screen Rochester has the ten oclock news. I *never* watch the news because, well, it's depressing. However they do those blurbs in the beginning and it said "Tatoo's and our youth, can they help us identify problem causing children?" Ummm....Excuse me??So I watched it thinking that it had to be a misinterpretation on my part and low and behold, it wasn't. There was an actual section of the evening news about how tatoos and piercings are signs of violent and trouble making "children", or those prone to addictive and disruptive personalities. The report went on to say that the younger the person getting the tatoo the more likely they are to act out against society instead of being a productive member of the human race. Argh!!! I was already inflamed after watching a show on zero tolerance and this just put me off the deep end. In NYS a person can not legally get a tatoo under the age of 18 and if we are predisposed to be violent, it shows way before then. I got my tatoo when I was 18, and have often been part of conversations where people put down tatoos without realising I have one. I know I am not a trouble maker, and i take offense to being called a non-productive member of society because I chose to decorate my body with a daily reminder. It seems by the day that minds are closing tighter and tighter, distrust and fear are running rampant and I am at my wits end about what to do. *sigh*
------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
member
148 posts
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
148 posts
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
Posted:
I know what you mean. A less permanent but mire visually obvious "marker" is hair color. If you think it's rough with a tattoo, try going around town as a youth with jet colored hair. I was always a nice guy, but for some reason, you get told about "troubled" youth all the time. It was always a drag in school, after a number of incidents, which were hyped by the media (Columbine, Littleton...) Now the scools think they can mask the problem by making new dress codes...It just sickens me to think that a conscious decision to show how you feel inside, be it brightly, somewhat diffent colored hair, jet black/powder white makeup, tattoos, or whatever, can cause that much of a problem in a modern "civilized" society.-PSM ------------------"One can only see what one observes, and one observes only things which are already in the mind."-Alphonse Bertillon
I know what you mean. A less permanent but mire visually obvious "marker" is hair color. If you think it's rough with a tattoo, try going around town as a youth with jet colored hair. I was always a nice guy, but for some reason, you get told about "troubled" youth all the time. It was always a drag in school, after a number of incidents, which were hyped by the media (Columbine, Littleton...) Now the scools think they can mask the problem by making new dress codes...It just sickens me to think that a conscious decision to show how you feel inside, be it brightly, somewhat diffent colored hair, jet black/powder white makeup, tattoos, or whatever, can cause that much of a problem in a modern "civilized" society.-PSM ------------------"One can only see what one observes, and one observes only things which are already in the mind."-Alphonse Bertillon
One can only see what one observes, and one observes only things which are already in the mind.-Alphonse Bertillon
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
Oh, yeah, Pele, sadly this is nothing new. Police has IDed "suspects" for years based on tattoes of the prison and gang variety. A lot of gangs have stopped tattoing members and others are more reluctant to get tats in prison for fear of providing "evidence", so the cops have moved on to greener pastures, alt culture in general. It's the same old bigotry, scandalize something you don't understand. Make it easy, forumulaic, to understand the "criminal mind". Very safe, very easy. I'm sorry to say I'm not surprised in the least. All I can say is that those who've pushed the envelope then, help us all now. If we continue to demand proper respect for our self-expression, we'll make it easier for those down the line. Diana
Oh, yeah, Pele, sadly this is nothing new. Police has IDed "suspects" for years based on tattoes of the prison and gang variety. A lot of gangs have stopped tattoing members and others are more reluctant to get tats in prison for fear of providing "evidence", so the cops have moved on to greener pastures, alt culture in general. It's the same old bigotry, scandalize something you don't understand. Make it easy, forumulaic, to understand the "criminal mind". Very safe, very easy. I'm sorry to say I'm not surprised in the least. All I can say is that those who've pushed the envelope then, help us all now. If we continue to demand proper respect for our self-expression, we'll make it easier for those down the line. Diana
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Posted:
Raar!!This is a topic that makes me so angry. I have no tatoo's cause I don't want to get something I will regret later in life (and also I'm a chicken!)I had my navel pierced almost 8 years ago and it seems to be 'acceptable' now.I hate and detest the hassle of hair and would love to shave it all off, however I will be job hunting soon and I know that a skin head would affect my job prospects.My boyfriend has tatoos on his arms and he can't go to the local hot spring in his town because of the scandal it would cause.I first witnessed this type of discrimination when I was 13 years old. Friends of mine from Dublin (Ireland's capital) visited my hometown. One of the guys was quite tall, was wearing rocker gear and had quite a few piercings. We were messing around and wrapped toilet roll around his head (don't ask me why?) While he was unravelling it some of it fell and blew away and wham! we were nabbed by the gardai (police) demanding Fionn's name address and what the hell he was doing creating a *disturbance* in the town. The garda even rang the police station in Fionn's area to find out if he had a record!! No record was found, cause Fionn didn't have one, but he still wouldn't have been let go if my mother hadn't been walking down the street and asked the guard to 'let that nice boy go'.I'm almost 25, that incident happened a long time ago, but I can still remember how people make snap judgements on appearance.Small mindedness alas, still reigns supreme all these years later. Are people ever going to learn?? ------------------"London is a city coming down from its trip and there's going to be a lot of refugees" - Danny,Withnail & I
Raar!!This is a topic that makes me so angry. I have no tatoo's cause I don't want to get something I will regret later in life (and also I'm a chicken!)I had my navel pierced almost 8 years ago and it seems to be 'acceptable' now.I hate and detest the hassle of hair and would love to shave it all off, however I will be job hunting soon and I know that a skin head would affect my job prospects.My boyfriend has tatoos on his arms and he can't go to the local hot spring in his town because of the scandal it would cause.I first witnessed this type of discrimination when I was 13 years old. Friends of mine from Dublin (Ireland's capital) visited my hometown. One of the guys was quite tall, was wearing rocker gear and had quite a few piercings. We were messing around and wrapped toilet roll around his head (don't ask me why?) While he was unravelling it some of it fell and blew away and wham! we were nabbed by the gardai (police) demanding Fionn's name address and what the hell he was doing creating a *disturbance* in the town. The garda even rang the police station in Fionn's area to find out if he had a record!! No record was found, cause Fionn didn't have one, but he still wouldn't have been let go if my mother hadn't been walking down the street and asked the guard to 'let that nice boy go'.I'm almost 25, that incident happened a long time ago, but I can still remember how people make snap judgements on appearance.Small mindedness alas, still reigns supreme all these years later. Are people ever going to learn?? ------------------"London is a city coming down from its trip and there's going to be a lot of refugees" - Danny,Withnail & I
Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.
- W B Yeats
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
i guess im safe, i have no tattoo's, piercings, or odd hair colors*phew*but you guys do, you rebelious punks you.it must be something in the ink, you know, the ink gets in your blood, and suddenly whammo, you instantly turn from nice happy productive member of society into an evil little satan devil. its true its true, i saw it on tv. and all of the goodness in your soul gets drained out through the holes in your skin from the piercings. and we all know that alternative hair colors are really the mark of the beast, the bible says forehead but thats only because hair grows near the forehead. its a sad sad world we live in, when we let these hooligans run around doing dirty things, like... dancing and stuff. i say we round em all up and ship em off to the moon. yea, then society will suddenly be wonderful, isnt it fun to be able to pin all our problems on such aesthetic preferences? you know, i hear that people with freckles are really demons. really, im telling you, all those people that look different, they are whats the problem with society. we were going to analyze them to see if physical appearance truly did determine the content of the heart, but then we realized that would cost too much money and if we get the wrong answer we might have to find a different scapegoat, so now we just preach it like a fact from behind the glass of a tv screen, its pretty easy here, weve already got them all programmed to watch us four hours a day, we tell their kids what to believe and what is acceptable. thank God (who we dont believe in) that we have such control over all the little clones, or they might all go and get themselves possessed with these evil tattoos.hmm, that started out as friendly sarcasm from how people think of kids w/ tattoos, but somehow it ended in my eternal hate for hollywood... hmm, sorry
i guess im safe, i have no tattoo's, piercings, or odd hair colors*phew*but you guys do, you rebelious punks you.it must be something in the ink, you know, the ink gets in your blood, and suddenly whammo, you instantly turn from nice happy productive member of society into an evil little satan devil. its true its true, i saw it on tv. and all of the goodness in your soul gets drained out through the holes in your skin from the piercings. and we all know that alternative hair colors are really the mark of the beast, the bible says forehead but thats only because hair grows near the forehead. its a sad sad world we live in, when we let these hooligans run around doing dirty things, like... dancing and stuff. i say we round em all up and ship em off to the moon. yea, then society will suddenly be wonderful, isnt it fun to be able to pin all our problems on such aesthetic preferences? you know, i hear that people with freckles are really demons. really, im telling you, all those people that look different, they are whats the problem with society. we were going to analyze them to see if physical appearance truly did determine the content of the heart, but then we realized that would cost too much money and if we get the wrong answer we might have to find a different scapegoat, so now we just preach it like a fact from behind the glass of a tv screen, its pretty easy here, weve already got them all programmed to watch us four hours a day, we tell their kids what to believe and what is acceptable. thank God (who we dont believe in) that we have such control over all the little clones, or they might all go and get themselves possessed with these evil tattoos.hmm, that started out as friendly sarcasm from how people think of kids w/ tattoos, but somehow it ended in my eternal hate for hollywood... hmm, sorry
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
shhh!!but the latest statistical evidence PROVES that drinking water leads to becoming a Mass Murderer!!!! its true! the correlation was 100%Every single Mass Murderer interviewed confessed that they occassionally drank water as children...sometimes in groups and sometimes alone. Drinking water has been linked with other problematic behaviour - in studies being conducted worldwide!Ban it I say!---------but seriously, what comes first, the attitude or the tattoo? perhaps we should just cut out everyone from society who requires support from the state of any kind! yay! noone will have to pay any tax!! yay!!this is a particularly sore point for me in case you couldnt tell.I have to say Pele, the more stories like this you tell, the more I'm think the US of A is not for you (or your son).Josh
shhh!!but the latest statistical evidence PROVES that drinking water leads to becoming a Mass Murderer!!!! its true! the correlation was 100%Every single Mass Murderer interviewed confessed that they occassionally drank water as children...sometimes in groups and sometimes alone. Drinking water has been linked with other problematic behaviour - in studies being conducted worldwide!Ban it I say!---------but seriously, what comes first, the attitude or the tattoo? perhaps we should just cut out everyone from society who requires support from the state of any kind! yay! noone will have to pay any tax!! yay!!this is a particularly sore point for me in case you couldnt tell.I have to say Pele, the more stories like this you tell, the more I'm think the US of A is not for you (or your son).Josh
BRONZE Member
member
156 posts
Location: madagascar, USA
member
156 posts
Location: madagascar, USA
Posted:
i have one point that i want to raise as far as bigoted means of identifiying "societial problems" based on appearance. it is something that cannot be decided upon like a new tattoo or piercing- it is race. every heard of the term "racial profiling?" it is a trend that cops seems to be real fond of. sadly racism and racial profiling are still present in our society and manifest in everything from the subtle "norms" we are taught everyday, to the blantant examples that includes a disporpotionatly high persentage of minorities in our jails and the occurance of hate crimes. as angering/depressing as it is racism is something that we must acknowledge and make efforts to change. i may have just opened up another can of p.c. worms with simply touching on this subject but i thought it would be a good thing to address.
i have one point that i want to raise as far as bigoted means of identifiying "societial problems" based on appearance. it is something that cannot be decided upon like a new tattoo or piercing- it is race. every heard of the term "racial profiling?" it is a trend that cops seems to be real fond of. sadly racism and racial profiling are still present in our society and manifest in everything from the subtle "norms" we are taught everyday, to the blantant examples that includes a disporpotionatly high persentage of minorities in our jails and the occurance of hate crimes. as angering/depressing as it is racism is something that we must acknowledge and make efforts to change. i may have just opened up another can of p.c. worms with simply touching on this subject but i thought it would be a good thing to address.
enthusiast
237 posts
237 posts
Posted:
My 2 cents......Pele, I hear ya, having had my lip pierced twice and eyebrows twice, a tattoo and experimenting with multi coloured, multi mohawked/spiked hair doos. I have experienced sublevel service at many establishments because I look like a 'feral'. I also spend a lot of time with a skin head as well. Tends to make me look a little tougher than I am but some assume I'm a roughian. (similar attitudes to the ones you witnessed) BUTAt least over here in Aussie (can't speak for other countries) the acceptance of piercings and tattos does seem to be growing a little. EG I went in to a bank and there was a girl with an eyebrow ring working as a teller.EG I ahve just started working for a multinational (I know, I know, I feel like a sellout) and was told, after discussing my previous piercings (I have taken them out but they will return!!) that I could get them done again if I wanted. My tatt is also on my forearm in plain view and a lot of people comment and ask about it with interest. The reality is that I took them out so I could get the kind of job I've got but at least there is SOME acceptance. I've also purchased my own tattooing equipment and intend to get up and running soon (trying to track down cheap sterilization equipment). When I tell people this, from all walks of life, I have the most unlikely people say that they either have one or want one. Some people have really surprised me with this.I guess what my point is is that the establishment like to try and hold EVERYONE down. Whether it's debt, appearance etc. In reality they can't and won't win. There are too many ppl like the ones posting here who have respect for anothers individual choice. So fear not Pele, wonderful twirler and mum, hopefully there is enough of us out there to keep it real.Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke
My 2 cents......Pele, I hear ya, having had my lip pierced twice and eyebrows twice, a tattoo and experimenting with multi coloured, multi mohawked/spiked hair doos. I have experienced sublevel service at many establishments because I look like a 'feral'. I also spend a lot of time with a skin head as well. Tends to make me look a little tougher than I am but some assume I'm a roughian. (similar attitudes to the ones you witnessed) BUTAt least over here in Aussie (can't speak for other countries) the acceptance of piercings and tattos does seem to be growing a little. EG I went in to a bank and there was a girl with an eyebrow ring working as a teller.EG I ahve just started working for a multinational (I know, I know, I feel like a sellout
) and was told, after discussing my previous piercings (I have taken them out but they will return!!) that I could get them done again if I wanted. My tatt is also on my forearm in plain view and a lot of people comment and ask about it with interest. The reality is that I took them out so I could get the kind of job I've got but at least there is SOME acceptance. I've also purchased my own tattooing equipment and intend to get up and running soon (trying to track down cheap sterilization equipment). When I tell people this, from all walks of life, I have the most unlikely people say that they either have one or want one. Some people have really surprised me with this.I guess what my point is is that the establishment like to try and hold EVERYONE down. Whether it's debt, appearance etc. In reality they can't and won't win. There are too many ppl like the ones posting here who have respect for anothers individual choice. So fear not Pele, wonderful twirler and mum, hopefully there is enough of us out there to keep it real.Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke addict
521 posts
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / Chennai, India (UK) (...
521 posts
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / Chennai, India (UK) (...
Posted:
Well (as those of you who saw my nickpage on that thread about putting a face to the name)I used to have piercings and funny hair but had to remove them as the school where I am repeating my A levels would not allow me to have them in. I tink its really unfair that people put violent anti-social behaviour and piercing and tatooing together because as far as I can see there is no link at all.Ok there are disruptive people with tatoo's and piercings but there are disruptive people without these decorations and that is all they are.peace out garbo
[This message has been edited by garbo (edited 02 May 2001).]
Well (as those of you who saw my nickpage on that thread about putting a face to the name)I used to have piercings and funny hair but had to remove them as the school where I am repeating my A levels would not allow me to have them in. I tink its really unfair that people put violent anti-social behaviour and piercing and tatooing together because as far as I can see there is no link at all.Ok there are disruptive people with tatoo's and piercings but there are disruptive people without these decorations and that is all they are.peace out garbo
[This message has been edited by garbo (edited 02 May 2001).] be excellent to each other: safe:
member
336 posts
Location: NY, USA
336 posts
Location: NY, USA
Posted:
Sometimes I feel like the people in the newsroom have nothing better to do that think up dumb-ass little sections like that one. they stretch the truth to make the storycatch some one's attention (Much like it did yours Pele) just to get ratings. Meanwhile they don't realize that they are brainwashing a bunch of impressionable people into thinking like a caveman.I think the people that tell us about all these problems are the ones that cause them- too worried about their story, not about the impacts.------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...
Sometimes I feel like the people in the newsroom have nothing better to do that think up dumb-ass little sections like that one. they stretch the truth to make the storycatch some one's attention (Much like it did yours Pele) just to get ratings. Meanwhile they don't realize that they are brainwashing a bunch of impressionable people into thinking like a caveman.I think the people that tell us about all these problems are the ones that cause them- too worried about their story, not about the impacts.------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...
Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...
member
15 posts
Location: London UK
15 posts
Location: London UK
Posted:
Wow I was going to get a tatoo because I thought it would look sexy!, I had no idea it would lead to me having an addictive and disruptive personalitie ! I might just have to think twice about it now!!!
Wow I was going to get a tatoo because I thought it would look sexy!, I had no idea it would lead to me having an addictive and disruptive personalitie ! I might just have to think twice about it now!!!
BRONZE Member
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
Posted:
Pele, it was obvious to me when i met you that you are not a productive member of society, that you have an aggressive behavior (same goes for your son, what a brat!), and are predisposed to create troubles with all your evil fire toys. I didn't even see your tatoo. If I had, I probably wouldn't have talked to you. Nobody should interact with people who have tatoos. I mean, they're dangerous people you know? At least that's what they say on TV...nomad
Pele, it was obvious to me when i met you that you are not a productive member of society, that you have an aggressive behavior (same goes for your son, what a brat!), and are predisposed to create troubles with all your evil fire toys. I didn't even see your tatoo. If I had, I probably wouldn't have talked to you. Nobody should interact with people who have tatoos. I mean, they're dangerous people you know? At least that's what they say on TV...nomad
addict
521 posts
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / Chennai, India (UK) (...
521 posts
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / Chennai, India (UK) (...
Posted:
Oh, if anyone is thinking of getting a tatoo and is finding it difficult to decide what they want done I design black tribal tatoo's (personally I think that yoou shold design your own but the offer is there if anyone is interested)peace outgarbo
Oh, if anyone is thinking of getting a tatoo and is finding it difficult to decide what they want done I design black tribal tatoo's (personally I think that yoou shold design your own but the offer is there if anyone is interested)peace outgarbo
be excellent to each other: safe:
enthusiast
237 posts
237 posts
Posted:
Garbo, if you have any designs emailable (?)I'd love to see some of your work. my address is tobynels@au1.ibm.com
Garbo, if you have any designs emailable (?)I'd love to see some of your work. my address is tobynels@au1.ibm.com
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
N8, I agree with the newcasters and "journalists" being the ones to really propagate the problems. They feed on people's fears and create these idiotic notions which turn to paranoia's. THe thing is, I spoke with my mom about this earler today (she saw the same broadcast) and she agreed with it!!!! Now, I know she thinks I am freaky but she knows I am not a trouble maker, per se (okay, so sometimes when I am in defensive parent mode I like to rock the boat). Her attitude was odd to me since a good half of my family, if not more, has tatoo's and piercings. My uncle was an award winning tatoo-ist and I design tat's for a friends studio. Amazing to me how blind people choose to be, and ***so*** scary.Diana, I think your statement on police identification and gang type tat's and such are relevant, but the ability to id someone by a tat as opposed to me getting treated on the street differently, in my opinion are two different things. One is an admittedly not always fair means of catching someone while the other is a pre-judgement. Though I also see gang type tat's as more of a branding of who belongs to what "family" as opposed to tat's which can be an intricate art form and expression.It's funny. I am on the PTA, I help with my son's T-ball league, I helped begin a charity organization for pagans as well as one for wildlife rehabitlitation centers in the area. I can see where I am a horrible person, really.Berzerker...there is a difference between selling out and survival. I say, get the job, then do the hair, tat's and piercings when they can't do much about it!Nomad...to see my tat would've meant my dropping trou. 
(It's on my hip you silly perverts!!!! ) And with how shy I can be there is *no* way that was ganna happen!And Josh, tell me something I don't know! 
National pride has *never* been a strong suit of mine. Now I just need to find a country that will let me in!!! Thanks and blessings all....------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...
N8, I agree with the newcasters and "journalists" being the ones to really propagate the problems. They feed on people's fears and create these idiotic notions which turn to paranoia's. THe thing is, I spoke with my mom about this earler today (she saw the same broadcast) and she agreed with it!!!! Now, I know she thinks I am freaky but she knows I am not a trouble maker, per se (okay, so sometimes when I am in defensive parent mode I like to rock the boat). Her attitude was odd to me since a good half of my family, if not more, has tatoo's and piercings. My uncle was an award winning tatoo-ist and I design tat's for a friends studio. Amazing to me how blind people choose to be, and ***so*** scary.Diana, I think your statement on police identification and gang type tat's and such are relevant, but the ability to id someone by a tat as opposed to me getting treated on the street differently, in my opinion are two different things. One is an admittedly not always fair means of catching someone while the other is a pre-judgement. Though I also see gang type tat's as more of a branding of who belongs to what "family" as opposed to tat's which can be an intricate art form and expression.It's funny. I am on the PTA, I help with my son's T-ball league, I helped begin a charity organization for pagans as well as one for wildlife rehabitlitation centers in the area. I can see where I am a horrible person, really.Berzerker...there is a difference between selling out and survival. I say, get the job, then do the hair, tat's and piercings when they can't do much about it!
Nomad...to see my tat would've meant my dropping trou. (It's on my hip you silly perverts!!!! ) And with how shy I can be there is *no* way that was ganna happen!And Josh, tell me something I don't know! National pride has *never* been a strong suit of mine. Now I just need to find a country that will let me in!!! Thanks and blessings all....------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir... Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
Posted:
Try France...nomad
Try France...
nomad member
336 posts
Location: NY, USA
336 posts
Location: NY, USA
Posted:
Not to get of the subject but for those of you "problems to society" that have ink done... I'm curious, whatcha got, and why?I have three Japanese script on my lower back in bright green w/ black outline. It reads "Wordpainter" because my calling in life is definately to writting, and the meaning of my Ink is the only thing I will EVER label myself as.Just thought I'd throw that out for response.N8.
Not to get of the subject
but for those of you "problems to society" that have ink done... I'm curious, whatcha got, and why?I have three Japanese script on my lower back in bright green w/ black outline. It reads "Wordpainter" because my calling in life is definately to writting, and the meaning of my Ink is the only thing I will EVER label myself as.Just thought I'd throw that out for response.N8. Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
about the racial prejudices, i think the only reason that is such a big deal today is because noone will let it die. the media feeds on it, we have affirmative action, we learn in schools about how the "white people" put the "black people" in slavery (even though my relatives came from europe after this whole slavery thing, and i never did anything to anyone). and as a result we end up putting all the races against eachother. they think that by having all these tv shows (where they usually blow everything out of proportion for ratings) they will decrease racism, but to be honest, growing up in the military i never noticed race. i never noticed that some shows had all white people, others had all black people, and others mixed races (the same applies with sexes). but after watching all this crap, i will notice on a comercial if all the people are minorities. if they really want to end racism, they need to let it die, as it is they end up making it about the group, in my sociology class, we read all this stuff about how fewer black people graduate from top colleges when compared to white people (the ratio was 39 to 11 i think it was taken in '92 but i dont recall). they shouldnt even do surveys like that. because then it ends up making it seem like there is some sort of group competition, and as a result the people choosing who enters the college will inevitably notice the race or sex or religeon or whatever of the person they are thinking of enrolling. if they ignored it, people would eventually not notice it, it isnt a big deal to most of the world except that stupid shows make it into one. i honestly believe the biggest reason there is racism is because of the media, and all these racial oriented things like affirmative action, the nazis, BET, all that stuff. they shove race and sex into our faces and so we inevitably notice the races and sexes of the people around us, whereas if they wouldnt bring it to our attention every chance they got, most all of us would simply stop noticing. and that is when inequality would truly end. everyone would be equal when everyone stopped judging based on race and sex and whatever, not when the graduation ratio is 1:1. or we intentionally put more of those kinds of people into wherever they are weak. that just makes what they are trying to downplay all the more obvious. the reason we have racism in the world today is because hollywood and all these politically run organizations refuse to let it die.rebbrother
about the racial prejudices, i think the only reason that is such a big deal today is because noone will let it die. the media feeds on it, we have affirmative action, we learn in schools about how the "white people" put the "black people" in slavery (even though my relatives came from europe after this whole slavery thing, and i never did anything to anyone). and as a result we end up putting all the races against eachother. they think that by having all these tv shows (where they usually blow everything out of proportion for ratings) they will decrease racism, but to be honest, growing up in the military i never noticed race. i never noticed that some shows had all white people, others had all black people, and others mixed races (the same applies with sexes). but after watching all this crap, i will notice on a comercial if all the people are minorities. if they really want to end racism, they need to let it die, as it is they end up making it about the group, in my sociology class, we read all this stuff about how fewer black people graduate from top colleges when compared to white people (the ratio was 39 to 11 i think it was taken in '92 but i dont recall). they shouldnt even do surveys like that. because then it ends up making it seem like there is some sort of group competition, and as a result the people choosing who enters the college will inevitably notice the race or sex or religeon or whatever of the person they are thinking of enrolling. if they ignored it, people would eventually not notice it, it isnt a big deal to most of the world except that stupid shows make it into one. i honestly believe the biggest reason there is racism is because of the media, and all these racial oriented things like affirmative action, the nazis, BET, all that stuff. they shove race and sex into our faces and so we inevitably notice the races and sexes of the people around us, whereas if they wouldnt bring it to our attention every chance they got, most all of us would simply stop noticing. and that is when inequality would truly end. everyone would be equal when everyone stopped judging based on race and sex and whatever, not when the graduation ratio is 1:1. or we intentionally put more of those kinds of people into wherever they are weak. that just makes what they are trying to downplay all the more obvious. the reason we have racism in the world today is because hollywood and all these politically run organizations refuse to let it die.rebbrother
BRONZE Member
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
Posted:
Mmmm... that gets tricky. I don't think letting it die hoping that the problem will take care of itself is a good solution to end racism. The mass-media sucks (I guess we all agree on that) and is far from fulfilling its original public service mission of INFORMATION and EDUCATION. Mass-media often throws oil on the fire (sorry, couldn't help it) and makes discussing matters like this more complicated because they just fuel opposite passions. However, when there is such overwhelming evidence as racial profiling or salary disparities according to race (just to pick 2), we can't just "let it die" and bury it hoping that people will stop noticing. We have to make sure people know about the problem and are aware of what's going on in their own country. The hard part is to have them hear about it in an intelligent way, not a scandalizing/ratings-fueled way that serves them the crap they want to hear.Nomad
Mmmm... that gets tricky. I don't think letting it die hoping that the problem will take care of itself is a good solution to end racism. The mass-media sucks (I guess we all agree on that) and is far from fulfilling its original public service mission of INFORMATION and EDUCATION. Mass-media often throws oil on the fire (sorry, couldn't help it) and makes discussing matters like this more complicated because they just fuel opposite passions. However, when there is such overwhelming evidence as racial profiling or salary disparities according to race (just to pick 2), we can't just "let it die" and bury it hoping that people will stop noticing. We have to make sure people know about the problem and are aware of what's going on in their own country. The hard part is to have them hear about it in an intelligent way, not a scandalizing/ratings-fueled way that serves them the crap they want to hear.Nomad
member
336 posts
Location: NY, USA
336 posts
Location: NY, USA
Posted:
Humm, Well put Nomad. Well put indeed.
Humm, Well put Nomad. Well put indeed.
Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
erm - Racism existed before TV shows did.in fact - I'd be willing to wager that there is no period in recorded history in which racism has not existed. We are slowly crawling towards equality for the first time in our history. Ignoring this problem will not make it go away.Education is the only way. Racism may not have a huge impact on you - but I bet if you asked a group of ppl from a minority of some description whether or not they feel that they are discriminated against on the basis of their minority membership - I bet you would find that they *do* think its a big deal.As a matter of fact, ask a woman if she has ever felt that someone has discriminated against them on the basis of their gender. Ask them if they are unhappy with the fact that in most industries they will have to work harder, longer to get the *same* pay as a man in the same position (and dont even worry about advancement).The only reason you can even *think* that its an issue that would dissappear by us ignoring it, is because of all the good work ppl are doing to try to rectify the situation.The whole system is geared towards the majority group population - ignore the problem, and it will continue as it is, as it always has.Josh-The Man's got a sure fire system...an economic prison.[This message has been edited by [Josh] (edited 02 May 2001).]
erm - Racism existed before TV shows did.in fact - I'd be willing to wager that there is no period in recorded history in which racism has not existed. We are slowly crawling towards equality for the first time in our history. Ignoring this problem will not make it go away.Education is the only way. Racism may not have a huge impact on you - but I bet if you asked a group of ppl from a minority of some description whether or not they feel that they are discriminated against on the basis of their minority membership - I bet you would find that they *do* think its a big deal.As a matter of fact, ask a woman if she has ever felt that someone has discriminated against them on the basis of their gender. Ask them if they are unhappy with the fact that in most industries they will have to work harder, longer to get the *same* pay as a man in the same position (and dont even worry about advancement).The only reason you can even *think* that its an issue that would dissappear by us ignoring it, is because of all the good work ppl are doing to try to rectify the situation.The whole system is geared towards the majority group population - ignore the problem, and it will continue as it is, as it always has.Josh-The Man's got a sure fire system...an economic prison.[This message has been edited by [Josh] (edited 02 May 2001).]
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Well said both Josh and Nomad.As a single mother, freak of my very closed minded town and a rather known female (wihtin the confines of my comfort zone here)yup bigotry is alive and well. I have seen racisim, agism, sexism...and being a young single never-wed mother I have seen that -ism, whatever it is called. I agree that ignoring it won't make it go away but head on collisions only result in stronger convictions and nothing solved. Nope, I don't know how to solve these issues and unfortunately I don't think they can be solved. I think there are geographic areas where people are more tolerant of things but they still have some scape goat. Fear is part of human nature and hatred/bigotry is borne of fear/insecurities, ignorance and frustration. Until someone figures out a way for everyone to be brilliant, have no stress or fears/insecurities, there will always be someone hating someone somewhere for something ridiculous. We all face it at some point, we all (hopefully) live through it. It is inescapable and inevitable, even for the white well bred majority male...somewhere he will be hated by someone for the color of his skin, because he is male, etc.....*sigh*I don't like it and if I don't vent, then I seethe and I will become the hater instead of the hatee. In the end I would rather be the target than someone else who isn't comfortable/capable of being that strong. My theory is that if hatred is pointed at me I can stand up for myself and anyone else (my son, for example), I can handle it for the grain of salt it is worth, which is better than someone else being trampled. Things are getting better and that is a good, but all things seem to cycle and come back around. With the Zero Tolerance and dress code issues, etc...it's it beginning to look like the times have cycled back around again and the witch hunts have begun.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...
Well said both Josh and Nomad.As a single mother, freak of my very closed minded town and a rather known female (wihtin the confines of my comfort zone here)yup bigotry is alive and well. I have seen racisim, agism, sexism...and being a young single never-wed mother I have seen that -ism, whatever it is called. I agree that ignoring it won't make it go away but head on collisions only result in stronger convictions and nothing solved. Nope, I don't know how to solve these issues and unfortunately I don't think they can be solved. I think there are geographic areas where people are more tolerant of things but they still have some scape goat. Fear is part of human nature and hatred/bigotry is borne of fear/insecurities, ignorance and frustration. Until someone figures out a way for everyone to be brilliant, have no stress or fears/insecurities, there will always be someone hating someone somewhere for something ridiculous. We all face it at some point, we all (hopefully) live through it. It is inescapable and inevitable, even for the white well bred majority male...somewhere he will be hated by someone for the color of his skin, because he is male, etc.....*sigh*I don't like it and if I don't vent, then I seethe and I will become the hater instead of the hatee. In the end I would rather be the target than someone else who isn't comfortable/capable of being that strong. My theory is that if hatred is pointed at me I can stand up for myself and anyone else (my son, for example), I can handle it for the grain of salt it is worth, which is better than someone else being trampled. Things are getting better and that is a good, but all things seem to cycle and come back around. With the Zero Tolerance and dress code issues, etc...it's it beginning to look like the times have cycled back around again and the witch hunts have begun.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
member
515 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
member
515 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
We found a website that states that masturbation leads to mass murdering as well, and all sex shops should be banned, and cucumbers and carrots should be sold pre-sliced *grin*this was a true website as well!!!
We found a website that states that masturbation leads to mass murdering as well, and all sex shops should be banned, and cucumbers and carrots should be sold pre-sliced *grin*this was a true website as well!!!
- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Posted:
I have to say I am a bit nervous of racism. My boyfriend is Japanese and he and I are moving to London this summer. Before that we are visiting my home town and there are a lot of small minded individuals out there who pick fights for no reason, and seeing a mixed race couple together would definitely excite these ignorant pricks. You know the kids chantSticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.Well it's not name calling we am worried about.
I have to say I am a bit nervous of racism. My boyfriend is Japanese and he and I are moving to London this summer. Before that we are visiting my home town and there are a lot of small minded individuals out there who pick fights for no reason, and seeing a mixed race couple together would definitely excite these ignorant pricks. You know the kids chantSticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.Well it's not name calling we am worried about.
Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.
- W B Yeats
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
kat- that is really cool, i lived in japan for three years. i doubt you'd have anythign to worry about in london though, i know of some japanese people who lived there and they said the people were pretty cool, one even had a high paying job at a bank (6 figures) hope all goes well in your home town though.as far as the other stuff goes, i dont think that we should let nazis run around killing people and burning crosses or whatever it is they do, but what i am saying is that political correctness, in it's possibly well meant attempt to destroy racism, has only made it that much more obvious. most people dont notice races unless they are told to. whether from upbringing, or from television or whatever. i suppose you dont have to agree, thats fine, but quite honestly i bet its going to get worse before it gets better. and by that i mean as far as peoples mindsets are concerned, not statistics. statistics (like the graduation ratio i mentioned earlier) will probably get better, but that will probably be because of gov't regulation as opposed to people eliminating racism. imo, as people's mindsets change, so will their actions. if we downplay differences and promote harmony between races, i believe we will be more successful than forcing competition to be equal (although one would have to wonder how equal affirmative action really is). because then there is still competition, its still how many blacks are in this sort of job verses how many whites. do you see at least what im trying to say?
kat- that is really cool, i lived in japan for three years. i doubt you'd have anythign to worry about in london though, i know of some japanese people who lived there and they said the people were pretty cool, one even had a high paying job at a bank (6 figures) hope all goes well in your home town though.as far as the other stuff goes, i dont think that we should let nazis run around killing people and burning crosses or whatever it is they do, but what i am saying is that political correctness, in it's possibly well meant attempt to destroy racism, has only made it that much more obvious. most people dont notice races unless they are told to. whether from upbringing, or from television or whatever. i suppose you dont have to agree, thats fine, but quite honestly i bet its going to get worse before it gets better. and by that i mean as far as peoples mindsets are concerned, not statistics. statistics (like the graduation ratio i mentioned earlier) will probably get better, but that will probably be because of gov't regulation as opposed to people eliminating racism. imo, as people's mindsets change, so will their actions. if we downplay differences and promote harmony between races, i believe we will be more successful than forcing competition to be equal (although one would have to wonder how equal affirmative action really is). because then there is still competition, its still how many blacks are in this sort of job verses how many whites. do you see at least what im trying to say?
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
i guess what my statement boils down to is that equality doesnt come from equal numbers, it comes from accepting mindsets. in their attempt to make the numbers equal i believe they are going to make peoples mindsets less accepting.
i guess what my statement boils down to is that equality doesnt come from equal numbers, it comes from accepting mindsets. in their attempt to make the numbers equal i believe they are going to make peoples mindsets less accepting.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Posted:
Hey Redbrother Where in Japan did you live and why? You are still in school right, did you come over with your folks? I am over here working but am moving home soon. A small part of the reason I'm going to leave is I'm getting very pissed off at doing boring translation work constantly and unless I take up English teaching or move to Tokyo I can't think of any way I could stay in Akita and not do translation work. GRRRRRRR! Still it's Golden week and I have the next four days off tra,la,la,la.la.(It's 5 o clock and Kat get's ready to sign off for a weekend of fun!!!!!)
Hey Redbrother Where in Japan did you live and why? You are still in school right, did you come over with your folks? I am over here working but am moving home soon. A small part of the reason I'm going to leave is I'm getting very pissed off at doing boring translation work constantly and unless I take up English teaching or move to Tokyo I can't think of any way I could stay in Akita and not do translation work. GRRRRRRR! Still it's Golden week and I have the next four days off tra,la,la,la.la.(It's 5 o clock and Kat get's ready to sign off for a weekend of fun!!!!!)
Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.
- W B Yeats
addict
521 posts
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / Chennai, India (UK) (...
521 posts
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / Chennai, India (UK) (...
Posted:
BEZERKER Will try and get some scanned in and will send them to you.may take a while cause I am in the middle of exam preperaion.peace outgarbo
BEZERKER Will try and get some scanned in and will send them to you.may take a while cause I am in the middle of exam preperaion.peace outgarbo
be excellent to each other: safe:
BRONZE Member
member
107 posts
Location: east randolph, VT USA
member
107 posts
Location: east randolph, VT USA
Posted:
i know i'm coming in late, and i haven't even read the whole thread yet, but redbrother made me think.ya know, you're safe anyway. you're christian. you're "normal". you're what george bush wants you to be. you belong to the people who are advocating the small-mindedness.which i don't mean as a criticism, but it's totally true. see, (another shocking thing, maybe i should have put it on the thread!) i used to be a christian, and even have a BA in biblical theology. but i've been a pagan for years and years now, and ya know? i'm the same person. i haven't changed all that much. as a matter of fact, now i have a nice, respectable job, and i own a farm. i don't even club anymore (cause i own a farm!). but people's impressions of me have changed drastically. suddenly, you're not one of "them" anymore, and poof...i'm a threat. goddamn, i even stopped wearing goth gear regularly (which i wore as a christian!). i have lots of piercings and a tat, but none of them are visible, and i even have normal colored hair. sure, i have a girlfriend, but we don't live together - in fact, i'm actually married (to a gay guy - we want to have kids!) and *look* completely normal. but i'm not a part of the religious right, so i must be a trouble maker.whatever.{maybe i should delete this cause someone's gonna get offended, but it's just so true. sorry for using you as an example, red}and incidentaly, for the record, pele's kid is one of the most well-mannered children i know. not only that, but he listened to me - a complete stranger - when i asked him to do/not do whatever. and that's a *great* reason to target a kid as a trouble maker in school. AAAAAAAAGH![This message has been edited by ykaterina (edited 04 May 2001).]
i know i'm coming in late, and i haven't even read the whole thread yet, but redbrother made me think.ya know, you're safe anyway. you're christian. you're "normal". you're what george bush wants you to be. you belong to the people who are advocating the small-mindedness.which i don't mean as a criticism, but it's totally true. see, (another shocking thing, maybe i should have put it on the thread!) i used to be a christian, and even have a BA in biblical theology. but i've been a pagan for years and years now, and ya know? i'm the same person. i haven't changed all that much. as a matter of fact, now i have a nice, respectable job, and i own a farm. i don't even club anymore (cause i own a farm!). but people's impressions of me have changed drastically. suddenly, you're not one of "them" anymore, and poof...i'm a threat. goddamn, i even stopped wearing goth gear regularly (which i wore as a christian!). i have lots of piercings and a tat, but none of them are visible, and i even have normal colored hair. sure, i have a girlfriend, but we don't live together - in fact, i'm actually married (to a gay guy - we want to have kids!) and *look* completely normal. but i'm not a part of the religious right, so i must be a trouble maker.whatever.{maybe i should delete this cause someone's gonna get offended, but it's just so true. sorry for using you as an example, red}and incidentaly, for the record, pele's kid is one of the most well-mannered children i know. not only that, but he listened to me - a complete stranger - when i asked him to do/not do whatever. and that's a *great* reason to target a kid as a trouble maker in school. AAAAAAAAGH![This message has been edited by ykaterina (edited 04 May 2001).]
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
thats okay, but i dont really want to get into a religeous arguement, that would leave everyone (including myself) rather frustrated.also, i do see your point, but you also have to remember that alot of christians are very close minded when it comes to appearances (probably because they pick and choose which Bible verses to follow). i believe i did a good job in choosing an open minded church, but i do know of alot of friends who have really been burned out by other christians becaues of being judged for how they look. being a christian "freak" makes you a target among some less accepting christians, whereas the non-christians, while getting judged by the same people, dont really have to worry about being harrassed because they're considered to be just another "worldly" (i hate that term) person, living in sin. i guess im trying to say that yea, i am a christian, mostly white, and a male, and so i do fall into some majorities, but that doesnt neccessarily mean that everyone accepts me as well. i'm sure most everyone has sufferend ridicule for their appearance in some form or another . not beautiful vs too sluty, minority being oppressed vs majority being seen as the "oppressor", too freaky vs too normal, no matter what group you fall into, there is always another group different from you that will look down on you for something, like this post for example, alot of christians judge me negatively and the music i listen to by sound and appearance, whereas you are saying that i can't identify with you because i am a christian and therefore a majority. oh well, i guess we all have our own struggles, personally i just try to avoid people who dont like me, it makes my life much less strenuous.redbrotherGod bless
thats okay, but i dont really want to get into a religeous arguement, that would leave everyone (including myself) rather frustrated.also, i do see your point, but you also have to remember that alot of christians are very close minded when it comes to appearances (probably because they pick and choose which Bible verses to follow). i believe i did a good job in choosing an open minded church, but i do know of alot of friends who have really been burned out by other christians becaues of being judged for how they look. being a christian "freak" makes you a target among some less accepting christians, whereas the non-christians, while getting judged by the same people, dont really have to worry about being harrassed because they're considered to be just another "worldly" (i hate that term) person, living in sin. i guess im trying to say that yea, i am a christian, mostly white, and a male, and so i do fall into some majorities, but that doesnt neccessarily mean that everyone accepts me as well. i'm sure most everyone has sufferend ridicule for their appearance in some form or another . not beautiful vs too sluty, minority being oppressed vs majority being seen as the "oppressor", too freaky vs too normal, no matter what group you fall into, there is always another group different from you that will look down on you for something, like this post for example, alot of christians judge me negatively and the music i listen to by sound and appearance, whereas you are saying that i can't identify with you because i am a christian and therefore a majority. oh well, i guess we all have our own struggles, personally i just try to avoid people who dont like me, it makes my life much less strenuous.redbrotherGod bless
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
kat- i lived in okinawa (small island to the south of mainland) my dad is in the air force (retires next month) and since i am just now finishing high school, i had to go w/ the family wherever we moved. we moved there in the middle of my 7th grade year, i think thats probably january of 96, then in the middle of my 10th grade year (probably 99) we moved here to ks. and ive lived here for a little over 2 years now, might move at the end of the summer again though.how about you? how long and come you live in japan? did you just learn japanese and decide to move there as an interpreter?
kat- i lived in okinawa (small island to the south of mainland) my dad is in the air force (retires next month) and since i am just now finishing high school, i had to go w/ the family wherever we moved. we moved there in the middle of my 7th grade year, i think thats probably january of 96, then in the middle of my 10th grade year (probably 99) we moved here to ks. and ive lived here for a little over 2 years now, might move at the end of the summer again though.how about you? how long and come you live in japan? did you just learn japanese and decide to move there as an interpreter?
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