Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > A couple of definitions: insides and inversions
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enthusiast
213 posts
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
enthusiast
213 posts
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Ok, this thread is probably going to be one of those that'll run for only a couple of posts but I think it'll be a useful one to have on here, especially for people searching. I've tried to find out for myself through searches what these terms refer to but all I can find are references without any clear definition. Besides which, different people seem to use them differently, some saying that a buzzsaw is an inversion and others talking about inverted buzzsaws, but maybe I've misunderstood. Either way I think it'd be handy to have some proper definitions laid down somewhere that'll definately come up in searches.
So if anyone could oblige I'd be very grateful.
Cheers all x
Ok, this thread is probably going to be one of those that'll run for only a couple of posts but I think it'll be a useful one to have on here, especially for people searching. I've tried to find out for myself through searches what these terms refer to but all I can find are references without any clear definition. Besides which, different people seem to use them differently, some saying that a buzzsaw is an inversion and others talking about inverted buzzsaws, but maybe I've misunderstood. Either way I think it'd be handy to have some proper definitions laid down somewhere that'll definately come up in searches.
So if anyone could oblige I'd be very grateful.
Cheers all x
Will those capable of telekinesis please raise my hand?
A little bit of a board whore
147 posts
Location: Glasgow
147 posts
Location: Glasgow
Posted:
What about doing a big definitions thread, and then getting someone to make it sticky.
I mean, I have no idea what a wibble is, and I'm only just learning what airwraps, isolations and hyperloops are. This would help newbies and confused veterans alike.
What about doing a big definitions thread, and then getting someone to make it sticky.
I mean, I have no idea what a wibble is, and I'm only just learning what airwraps, isolations and hyperloops are. This would help newbies and confused veterans alike.
Ancient wiseman say "It is very strange person, who, when left alone in room with teacosy, does not try it on"
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Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
theres a wikipoidia on sherc...
theres a wikipoidia on sherc...
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
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Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
I thought that wikipoidia wasn't up anymore, I can't seem to find anything but dead links
Edit..
I might have known, just a couple of minutes after saying I couldn't find it, I found it
It seems that the link on the spherculism main page needs updating from .com to .net
Click me, click me
EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1139925105)
I thought that wikipoidia wasn't up anymore, I can't seem to find anything but dead links
Edit..
I might have known, just a couple of minutes after saying I couldn't find it, I found it
It seems that the link on the spherculism main page needs updating from .com to .net
Click me, click me
EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1139925105)
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
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Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
and I see there hgas been no bump of the inversions and atomics thread, wich pretty much defines the whole subject, through discussion rather than imposition...
and I see there hgas been no bump of the inversions and atomics thread, wich pretty much defines the whole subject, through discussion rather than imposition...
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Posted:
your right.. different people use the word inversion to mean different stuff, same with inside... there is no definition, you have to lean how difefernt people use the word, which is hard on the internet.
the way i see it is simple. an inversion describes the realtion between you hands when you spin. in particular anything with you hands facing each other is an inversion. (buzzsaws (0 degree inversion) and barrel rolls (1st degree inversion) are some examples)
inside is like outside, but in between your arms and your body.
but like nx says the best thing to do is read the inversions thread, and also revs thread on [Old link]
is good.
[Old link]
EDITED_BY: oli (1139929260)
your right.. different people use the word inversion to mean different stuff, same with inside... there is no definition, you have to lean how difefernt people use the word, which is hard on the internet.
the way i see it is simple. an inversion describes the realtion between you hands when you spin. in particular anything with you hands facing each other is an inversion. (buzzsaws (0 degree inversion) and barrel rolls (1st degree inversion) are some examples)
inside is like outside, but in between your arms and your body.
but like nx says the best thing to do is read the inversions thread, and also revs thread on [Old link]
is good.
[Old link]
EDITED_BY: oli (1139929260)
Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
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Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
poi goes punk has nice clear explanation of inversions (with video)
the degrees thing oli posted will help sort out how the buzzsaw stand in relation to the (I hate using old vulgar terms but.... ) buzzsaw weave.. (:sigh:)
the stuff richee and I are discussing, hopefully some people can follow, but if not, don't worry because its a bit deep in the nerd side..
poi goes punk has nice clear explanation of inversions (with video)
the degrees thing oli posted will help sort out how the buzzsaw stand in relation to the (I hate using old vulgar terms but.... ) buzzsaw weave.. (:sigh:)
the stuff richee and I are discussing, hopefully some people can follow, but if not, don't worry because its a bit deep in the nerd side..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
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1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
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Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
Ok, here I am:
Inside -
a)Pick up one Poi.
b)Bend your back. (Like turned "U")
c)Let your Poi down.
d)With one hand and one Poi. Make circle, and now, "between your body and hand", between the turned U..
e)Done? Your first inside.
-----------
Inversion (bit harder, thanks Blue)
a)Pick up both Poi.
b) Stay straight.
c)Place your one Poi on opposide shoulder and and let it rest.
(this make circular space between your hand and body, gap.)
d)Start circling with your other hand and Poi.
e)Try to pass with the Poi throught the gap. (the funny part).
f)Done? You are inverting.
:R
Ps; Definitions
Iversion - Spinning in hand plane.
Inside - Spinning between hand plane and buzzsaw.
Buzzsaw - Spinning in Poi plane.
(Theory of Frame unity - The Frame)
Ok, here I am:
Inside -
a)Pick up one Poi.
b)Bend your back. (Like turned "U")
c)Let your Poi down.
d)With one hand and one Poi. Make circle, and now, "between your body and hand", between the turned U..
e)Done? Your first inside.
-----------
Inversion (bit harder, thanks Blue)
a)Pick up both Poi.
b) Stay straight.
c)Place your one Poi on opposide shoulder and and let it rest.
(this make circular space between your hand and body, gap.)
d)Start circling with your other hand and Poi.
e)Try to pass with the Poi throught the gap. (the funny part).
f)Done? You are inverting.
:R
Ps; Definitions
Iversion - Spinning in hand plane.
Inside - Spinning between hand plane and buzzsaw.
Buzzsaw - Spinning in Poi plane.
(Theory of Frame unity - The Frame)
POI THEO(R)IST
SILVER Member
enthusiast
213 posts
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
enthusiast
213 posts
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Excellent, cheers guys. Nx, as I said in the first post I have done some extensive searching and only found the types of definition you describe: those achieved through discussion. My problem was that you can't have a conclusive definition based on differences of opinion and usage, so I was just trying to clear things up, not to get info out of people without doing the research, so I'm sorry if it came accross that way. Oli, Rev and Richee, thanks a lot. It seems I'll just have to get used to different people using different terms for different things. I suppose as you become familiar with a type of moves you can understand it by what is actually being described rather than worrying about the words used to describe it.
EDITED_BY: Tom_Shill (1139944344)
Excellent, cheers guys. Nx, as I said in the first post I have done some extensive searching and only found the types of definition you describe: those achieved through discussion. My problem was that you can't have a conclusive definition based on differences of opinion and usage, so I was just trying to clear things up, not to get info out of people without doing the research, so I'm sorry if it came accross that way
. Oli, Rev and Richee, thanks a lot. It seems I'll just have to get used to different people using different terms for different things. I suppose as you become familiar with a type of moves you can understand it by what is actually being described rather than worrying about the words used to describe it.EDITED_BY: Tom_Shill (1139944344)
Will those capable of telekinesis please raise my hand?
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Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
I think for the most part we all use these definitions the same..
the confusion comes from:
1- buzzsaw was a term before inversion..
2- inversion was/is typically applied to the inverted weave..
3- degrees helps us to understand that a buzzsaw is an inversion of 0-degree.. and so now buzzsaw is also an inversion, even though its not what is described when we talk of inversions (in most cases), since most of the time we are wanting to talk about inverted weaves which are the hot topic (I mean who cares about buzzsaws anyway haha.. )
4- buzzsaw now also has a new conceptual definition as per richee's framing.. whihc casts a new ligh on the relationship between inversions, and insides, and what not..
5- inside is a term like plane that applies to things in the general sense and in a specific sense.. for instance I can talk baout a plane as being the line made when you look at a flat poi circle.. or I can talk about a plane as being this whole area in whihc my poi 'could' spin.. spinning anywhere on the right side for instance is a right side plane.. however, the right side plane is madeup of several individual planes..
inside is similar. inside is a plane facing (relation of poi to body).. but it als gets used as a general term like when I do a ttn one poi passes inisde the other.. even though neither of them is in an 'inside plane'... similarly some people refer to a buzzsaw like spin as being inside..
all of this is VERY confusing.. and the only way to dissect it is to either a) know what someone is talking about, b) put it into context with what else is being said by that person and try to determine whihc meanings apply (they obviously don't overlap well so its kinda easy to determine one over the other), or c) in the worse case, just ask..,
I think for the most part we all use these definitions the same..
the confusion comes from:
1- buzzsaw was a term before inversion..
2- inversion was/is typically applied to the inverted weave..
3- degrees helps us to understand that a buzzsaw is an inversion of 0-degree.. and so now buzzsaw is also an inversion, even though its not what is described when we talk of inversions (in most cases), since most of the time we are wanting to talk about inverted weaves which are the hot topic (I mean who cares about buzzsaws anyway haha.. )
4- buzzsaw now also has a new conceptual definition as per richee's framing.. whihc casts a new ligh on the relationship between inversions, and insides, and what not..
5- inside is a term like plane that applies to things in the general sense and in a specific sense.. for instance I can talk baout a plane as being the line made when you look at a flat poi circle.. or I can talk about a plane as being this whole area in whihc my poi 'could' spin.. spinning anywhere on the right side for instance is a right side plane.. however, the right side plane is madeup of several individual planes..
inside is similar. inside is a plane facing (relation of poi to body).. but it als gets used as a general term like when I do a ttn one poi passes inisde the other.. even though neither of them is in an 'inside plane'... similarly some people refer to a buzzsaw like spin as being inside..
all of this is VERY confusing.. and the only way to dissect it is to either a) know what someone is talking about, b) put it into context with what else is being said by that person and try to determine whihc meanings apply (they obviously don't overlap well so its kinda easy to determine one over the other), or c) in the worse case, just ask..,
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
poi goes punk is useful for 3 bt inversions.
once we get some vid up of the other inversions and all the inside weaves, things will become even more confusing, or more clear.
til then
poi goes punk is useful for 3 bt inversions.
once we get some vid up of the other inversions and all the inside weaves, things will become even more confusing, or more clear.
til then
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
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Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
I have the second degree ones in there too.. I'm just lacking the time to put the bf versions up. which are the same as the atomic ones.. so I, at least, don't see the point in making vids for both.. similarly, half the antispin ones flow like normal spin ones, if you turn your body right...
I figure people will come around to the inside stuff pretty quick, when they learn to tighten the planes up so that a front to rear walplane pattern is now done comepletely in front.. haha.. because once you do that all sorts of planeshifts come natural...
when are you releasing your vid arashi?
I have the second degree ones in there too.. I'm just lacking the time to put the bf versions up. which are the same as the atomic ones.. so I, at least, don't see the point in making vids for both.. similarly, half the antispin ones flow like normal spin ones, if you turn your body right...
I figure people will come around to the inside stuff pretty quick, when they learn to tighten the planes up so that a front to rear walplane pattern is now done comepletely in front.. haha.. because once you do that all sorts of planeshifts come natural...
when are you releasing your vid arashi?
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
when my life slows down. i am SLAMMED for time.
when my life slows down. i am SLAMMED for time.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
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Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
we need to just plan a day when you and I can get together.. I'm sure lots of people would want to see that, and then neither of us have an excuse..
no, I don't really see that happening.. but it's a nice thought.. I mean you're only 456 miles away
we need to just plan a day when you and I can get together.. I'm sure lots of people would want to see that, and then neither of us have an excuse..
no, I don't really see that happening.. but it's a nice thought.. I mean you're only 456 miles away
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
SILVER Member
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posted:
mostly the same ones that have always been available over the head, only without having to duck.
even more fun than the front is the sides. transitions into and out of WW using BTB inverse like front AND the ability to turn it all in the other direction without moving your feet?! unnecessarily cool. 
and are the the words "2nd degree", "butterfly", "inside", and "antispin" are supposed to refer the same move?! or were you saying second degree butterfly insides were the same as the similar atomics, and that half of (butterfly?) antispin insides are the same as normal ones. 
-- dut
Written by: Rev
I have the second degree ones in there too.. I'm just lacking the time to put the bf versions up. which are the same as the atomic ones.. so I, at least, don't see the point in making vids for both.. similarly, half the antispin ones flow like normal spin ones, if you turn your body right...
I figure people will come around to the inside stuff pretty quick, when they learn to tighten the planes up so that a front to rear walplane pattern is now done comepletely in front.. haha.. because once you do that all sorts of planeshifts come natural...
mostly the same ones that have always been available over the head, only without having to duck.
even more fun than the front is the sides. transitions into and out of WW using BTB inverse like front AND the ability to turn it all in the other direction without moving your feet?! unnecessarily cool. and are the the words "2nd degree", "butterfly", "inside", and "antispin" are supposed to refer the same move?!
or were you saying second degree butterfly insides were the same as the similar atomics, and that half of (butterfly?) antispin insides are the same as normal ones. -- dut
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Bastard Newbie Messiah
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Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
I'm saying that if you can do something butterfly, then you can do something atomic because its the exact same thing.. its just a matter of how flat you make your planes..
I'm also saying that ALL insides are the same... fundementally.. just like a weave is a weave no matter where you do it.. if I do it btb or utl or using insides, its still the same ole weave and it doesnt do anything different... as far as insides go, they are the same as all the outsides.. so if you can bf weave.. you can bf weave with insides.. if you can antispin weave.. you can antispin weave with insides.. and so forth...
If you've seen one inside, you've seen them all... and if you've done any moves going from front to rear wallplane, then you've done that pattern as it would be done with insides if your planes were brought closer together.. think of it like doing a corkscrew that goes down to your knees and up over your head versus one that just goes above and below the arms.. its still just a corkscrew.. and seriously doubt that you need visual aid to learn how to do one instead of the other..
as far as the antispin inversions.. because of the body position required for inversions.. half of the inversions roll with a same direction flow.. remember inversions take place on a cusp.. they operate on an axis for the most part.. so what's antispin on one side of that axis is really same direction on the other.. so you might start out with the hands moving against the flow, and as you exit that same inversions you are moving with the flow.. but still twisted up like antispin and able to go straight back into the antispin pattern on the other side.. that's part of the reason I gave up on them for now.. I think I need to get some of my basics a little more refined before I explore that further..
I'm saying that if you can do something butterfly, then you can do something atomic because its the exact same thing.. its just a matter of how flat you make your planes..
I'm also saying that ALL insides are the same... fundementally.. just like a weave is a weave no matter where you do it.. if I do it btb or utl or using insides, its still the same ole weave and it doesnt do anything different... as far as insides go, they are the same as all the outsides.. so if you can bf weave.. you can bf weave with insides.. if you can antispin weave.. you can antispin weave with insides.. and so forth...
If you've seen one inside, you've seen them all... and if you've done any moves going from front to rear wallplane, then you've done that pattern as it would be done with insides if your planes were brought closer together.. think of it like doing a corkscrew that goes down to your knees and up over your head versus one that just goes above and below the arms.. its still just a corkscrew.. and seriously doubt that you need visual aid to learn how to do one instead of the other..
as far as the antispin inversions.. because of the body position required for inversions.. half of the inversions roll with a same direction flow.. remember inversions take place on a cusp.. they operate on an axis for the most part.. so what's antispin on one side of that axis is really same direction on the other.. so you might start out with the hands moving against the flow, and as you exit that same inversions you are moving with the flow.. but still twisted up like antispin and able to go straight back into the antispin pattern on the other side.. that's part of the reason I gave up on them for now.. I think I need to get some of my basics a little more refined before I explore that further..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
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