Forums > Social Discussion > what the #$%* is going on in australia?
Login/Join to Participatelovable smart-ass
785 posts
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria
785 posts
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria
Posted:
Racial tensions spark Sydney beach violence
Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:20 PM ET
By Michael Perry
SYDNEY (Reuters) - Racial tension erupted into violence on a Sydney beach on Sunday when around 5,000 people, some yelling racist chants, attacked youths of a Middle Eastern background, saying they were defending their stretch of beach.
Thousands of local surfers and beachgoers gathered at Cronulla Beach after two young lifesavers were attacked last Sunday by a group of young men from Sydney's western suburbs.
Drunken youths chased and attacked Australians of Middle East appearance at the beach in Sydney's south, sending some cowering into shops and hotels for safety, as riot police and dog squads tried to stop the violence.
By Sunday night, violence had spread to a second beach, Maroubra, where men armed with baseball bats smashed cars. Police said a man was stabbed in the back in south Sydney in what media reports said appeared to be further racial violence.
As the crowd moved along the beach and foreshore, one man on the back of a truck shouted: "No more Lebs (Lebanese)" -- a chant picked up by the group around him. Others carried Australian flags and dressed in Australian sports shirts.
"This is Australia, if they don't like it they can go home," local resident Allan told reporters as he watched the violence.
Police arrested 12 people for offensive behavior and assault and blocked roads into Cronulla Beach, which was littered with broken beer bottles.
"The behavior that has been seen down here at Cronulla today is nothing short of disgusting and disgraceful. It is certainly not the Australian way," said Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Goodwin. He said some of those attacked were of Arabic background but had been born in Australia.
Cronulla resident Tertia Harry wept as she watched the violence. "I would expect scenes like this in South Africa but not here," she told reporters. "In 2005, there should not be this disgusting display of racism."
VIGILANTES
Cronulla Beach was the scene of an attack on two lifeguards last week and a brawl later in the week in which youths turned on a media crew.
Following the attacks on the volunteer lifesavers, a mobile telephone text campaign started, calling on Cronulla locals to rally this Sunday to protect their beach.
In response, a text campaign urged youths from western Sydney to be at Cronulla this Sunday to protect their mates.
All week police and politicians have been calling for calm.
Sydney's Islamic community blamed the violence at Cronulla Beach on "racist and irresponsible" sections of the media which turned a common youth issue into an issue of ethnicity.
"Innocent people have been bashed as a result of this simmering racial hatred," said Kaysar Trad, president of the Islamic Friendship Association of Australia.
link
this makes me angry and sad
Racial tensions spark Sydney beach violence
Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:20 PM ET
By Michael Perry
SYDNEY (Reuters) - Racial tension erupted into violence on a Sydney beach on Sunday when around 5,000 people, some yelling racist chants, attacked youths of a Middle Eastern background, saying they were defending their stretch of beach.
Thousands of local surfers and beachgoers gathered at Cronulla Beach after two young lifesavers were attacked last Sunday by a group of young men from Sydney's western suburbs.
Drunken youths chased and attacked Australians of Middle East appearance at the beach in Sydney's south, sending some cowering into shops and hotels for safety, as riot police and dog squads tried to stop the violence.
By Sunday night, violence had spread to a second beach, Maroubra, where men armed with baseball bats smashed cars. Police said a man was stabbed in the back in south Sydney in what media reports said appeared to be further racial violence.
As the crowd moved along the beach and foreshore, one man on the back of a truck shouted: "No more Lebs (Lebanese)" -- a chant picked up by the group around him. Others carried Australian flags and dressed in Australian sports shirts.
"This is Australia, if they don't like it they can go home," local resident Allan told reporters as he watched the violence.
Police arrested 12 people for offensive behavior and assault and blocked roads into Cronulla Beach, which was littered with broken beer bottles.
"The behavior that has been seen down here at Cronulla today is nothing short of disgusting and disgraceful. It is certainly not the Australian way," said Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Goodwin. He said some of those attacked were of Arabic background but had been born in Australia.
Cronulla resident Tertia Harry wept as she watched the violence. "I would expect scenes like this in South Africa but not here," she told reporters. "In 2005, there should not be this disgusting display of racism."
VIGILANTES
Cronulla Beach was the scene of an attack on two lifeguards last week and a brawl later in the week in which youths turned on a media crew.
Following the attacks on the volunteer lifesavers, a mobile telephone text campaign started, calling on Cronulla locals to rally this Sunday to protect their beach.
In response, a text campaign urged youths from western Sydney to be at Cronulla this Sunday to protect their mates.
All week police and politicians have been calling for calm.
Sydney's Islamic community blamed the violence at Cronulla Beach on "racist and irresponsible" sections of the media which turned a common youth issue into an issue of ethnicity.
"Innocent people have been bashed as a result of this simmering racial hatred," said Kaysar Trad, president of the Islamic Friendship Association of Australia.
link
this makes me angry and sad "is optimism in austria just a lack of information?"
-Alfred Dorfer
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Fair point Rouge.
My complaint, is the Howard government is not showing strong anti-racism leadership. Quite the contrary, I would suggest. It’s one thing to ask Herald (Herald/Sun?) readers if they think they are racist, and get a predictable answer. But what about if we asked people in Indonesia or Malaysia if they thought Australia was a racist country? Their view of Australia won’t change until we change. Like the communities view of the Lebanese or Australians won’t change until the Lebanese and Australian community shows the rest of the world that they have changed.
cheers
Fair point Rouge.
My complaint, is the Howard government is not showing strong anti-racism leadership. Quite the contrary, I would suggest. It’s one thing to ask Herald (Herald/Sun?) readers if they think they are racist, and get a predictable answer. But what about if we asked people in Indonesia or Malaysia if they thought Australia was a racist country? Their view of Australia won’t change until we change. Like the communities view of the Lebanese or Australians won’t change until the Lebanese and Australian community shows the rest of the world that they have changed.
cheers
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
What would show anti-racism leadership? Just out of interest. Because to be honest I don't really know. I think then that government would run the risk of being criticised for being "un-Australian" and neglecting our "roots", even though, as I said before, what roots exactly are they talking about?
What would show anti-racism leadership? Just out of interest. Because to be honest I don't really know. I think then that government would run the risk of being criticised for being "un-Australian" and neglecting our "roots", even though, as I said before, what roots exactly are they talking about?
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
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ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
stone, (and others)
the reason i found this article particularly relevant to the issue is because is does tackle the Australian identification of what a racist is - becuase despite our terrible past and track record - we still get all up tight when WE are labelled as racist.
As soon as we are labelled racist - you think White Supremacy, KKK etc - groups which focus on violence as a fair justfication of their beliefs theres a bunch of them in Oz unfortunately - as in any country - and most Aussies would be horrified to think that they agree support these deluded f*ckwits.
The single anti 'middle eastern appearance' riot in Cronulla i believe is primarily not due to some off-branch of Hilter Youth - it was due to a combintation of tension, testosterone, and alcohol. hell - the primary instagator revving has appeared on national TV apologising profusely.
Most Sydneysiders are repulsed by what we think of racism - but what the averrage persecption of racism is the Neo Nazies - what the article pointed out is that we cannot approach racism by targeting white supremacy groups & violence - because most of us would be horrified at being associated with such.
Instead - many Australians think in terms of racial stereotypical and catagorisation - as a justification to subvert racism - this is what can only be overcome by more cross culteral interaction and understanding.
We need differnent tactics to approach and nationally recognise & change this way of thinking - as opposed to the kids driving around the Shire with petrol bombs, molotov cocktails, and various metallic weapons in the boot which should all be locked up in a looney asylum till they calm down.
does that make a bit more sense?
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1135346836)
stone, (and others)
the reason i found this article particularly relevant to the issue is because is does tackle the Australian identification of what a racist is - becuase despite our terrible past and track record - we still get all up tight when WE are labelled as racist.
As soon as we are labelled racist - you think White Supremacy, KKK etc - groups which focus on violence as a fair justfication of their beliefs theres a bunch of them in Oz unfortunately - as in any country - and most Aussies would be horrified to think that they agree support these deluded f*ckwits.
The single anti 'middle eastern appearance' riot in Cronulla i believe is primarily not due to some off-branch of Hilter Youth - it was due to a combintation of tension, testosterone, and alcohol. hell - the primary instagator revving has appeared on national TV apologising profusely.
Most Sydneysiders are repulsed by what we think of racism - but what the averrage persecption of racism is the Neo Nazies - what the article pointed out is that we cannot approach racism by targeting white supremacy groups & violence - because most of us would be horrified at being associated with such.
Instead - many Australians think in terms of racial stereotypical and catagorisation - as a justification to subvert racism - this is what can only be overcome by more cross culteral interaction and understanding.
We need differnent tactics to approach and nationally recognise & change this way of thinking - as opposed to the kids driving around the Shire with petrol bombs, molotov cocktails, and various metallic weapons in the boot which should all be locked up in a looney asylum till they calm down.
does that make a bit more sense?
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1135346836)
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
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2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
Agreed.
However now that we are in agreement, it gets a little tricky. Its the one that used to drive me to tear my hair out when I was young and idealistic. What tactics? How do we do this?
In the wildest realms of my imagination I can think of a world where people "are not judged by the colour of their skin", or by their gender, or by their wealth. For me, its a realm where the phrase "of middle eastern appearance" is either unnecessary as people do not "see" race, or is so devoid of value judgement that it could be said without blinking an eye.
But how do we move from here to there? Are we asking people to give up identifying with their race? A truly race-neutral society would require that no one think of themselves as "of" a particular race or nation. Just like to live in a gender neutral society I would have to give up all identification with the sisterhood, no longer able to think of myself as "a strong woman ".
If we went for that, we would lose good things as well as bad. Is it worth it? Racism and identity based on race are two sides of the same coin.
But is there another way to define ourselves that goes outside "othering"? Othering is the process that people go through when they divide the world up into "Us" & "Them". They give attributes to the others, which are often very negative, to separate and distance. But also to say "we are not like them".
If only, rather than saying "we are like this, and they are like this", we could stop at "we are like this". If only we could see the world in terms of "us" and "another group of us" (not well-expressed, but I hope you get what I mean). Expressing identity outside of "us" and "them".
Written by: Dentrassi
We need differnent tactics to approach and nationally recognise & change this way of thinking
Agreed.
However now that we are in agreement, it gets a little tricky. Its the one that used to drive me to tear my hair out when I was young and idealistic. What tactics? How do we do this?
In the wildest realms of my imagination I can think of a world where people "are not judged by the colour of their skin", or by their gender, or by their wealth. For me, its a realm where the phrase "of middle eastern appearance" is either unnecessary as people do not "see" race, or is so devoid of value judgement that it could be said without blinking an eye.
But how do we move from here to there? Are we asking people to give up identifying with their race? A truly race-neutral society would require that no one think of themselves as "of" a particular race or nation. Just like to live in a gender neutral society I would have to give up all identification with the sisterhood, no longer able to think of myself as "a strong woman ".
If we went for that, we would lose good things as well as bad. Is it worth it? Racism and identity based on race are two sides of the same coin.
But is there another way to define ourselves that goes outside "othering"? Othering is the process that people go through when they divide the world up into "Us" & "Them". They give attributes to the others, which are often very negative, to separate and distance. But also to say "we are not like them".
If only, rather than saying "we are like this, and they are like this", we could stop at "we are like this". If only we could see the world in terms of "us" and "another group of us" (not well-expressed, but I hope you get what I mean). Expressing identity outside of "us" and "them".
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
SILVER Member
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2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
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2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
Oh, btw, in all these discussions I often worry that I end up sounding like a pompous git, cos I seem as though I am saying I don't do any of the bad things talked about. But the reality is that I am just as guilty of relying on racial and gender stereotypes as the next person.
Oh, btw, in all these discussions I often worry that I end up sounding like a pompous git, cos I seem as though I am saying I don't do any of the bad things talked about. But the reality is that I am just as guilty of relying on racial and gender stereotypes as the next person.
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
SILVER Member
Sweet talented nutter
2,615 posts
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia
Sweet talented nutter
2,615 posts
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia
Posted:
The whole event has been comeing for a long time though.
The whole event has been comeing for a long time though.
that shrewd and knavish sprite
Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy
I am the merry wander of the night -puk
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Denrassi, I would hope we still get all up tight when WE are labelled as racist. I don’t jump to White Supremacy, KKK etc when people are called racist.
I agree “we need different tactics to approach and nationally recognise & change this way of thinking.” That’s where Howard failed, he denied the whole thing, and sets the example of intolerance on the world stage and at home. If he led by example, like saying SORRY, then it would change the racial climate in Australia.
Rozi we need a paradime shift, I'm getting that throuigh my Landmark Education.
cheers for 2006
Denrassi, I would hope we still get all up tight when WE are labelled as racist. I don’t jump to White Supremacy, KKK etc when people are called racist.
I agree “we need different tactics to approach and nationally recognise & change this way of thinking.” That’s where Howard failed, he denied the whole thing, and sets the example of intolerance on the world stage and at home. If he led by example, like saying SORRY, then it would change the racial climate in Australia.
Rozi we need a paradime shift, I'm getting that throuigh my Landmark Education.
cheers for 2006
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
Dreamweaver
9 posts
Location: USA
Dreamweaver
9 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
ignorant people in small groups... when you see somebody takin charge you should beat them down
ignorant people in small groups... when you see somebody takin charge you should beat them down
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Codfort, in the 2 years since stone's post, we've changed government and we have a more progressive government controlling the senate, house of representatives and most states.
A democracy is the lesser evil than many of it's alternatives.
ps i heart this country.
Codfort, in the 2 years since stone's post, we've changed government and we have a more progressive government controlling the senate, house of representatives and most states.
A democracy is the lesser evil than many of it's alternatives.
ps i heart this country.
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Thanks bender
Codfert, the third anniversary of the Cronulla riots is coming up in December, but I’m not sure why you decided to bump this thread with a suich an inflammatory statement.
Originally Posted By: codfertignorant people in small groups... when you see somebody takin charge you should beat them down
I don’t think beating people down has ever solved anything.
Thanks bender
Codfert, the third anniversary of the Cronulla riots is coming up in December, but I’m not sure why you decided to bump this thread with a suich an inflammatory statement.
Originally Posted By: codfertignorant people in small groups... when you see somebody takin charge you should beat them down
I don’t think beating people down has ever solved anything.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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