Forums > Technical Discussion > Lookie at my new toy!
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the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
After a month of messing around, i've finally produced my first povStick! (pov = persistance of vision, not povo). first prototype is rather dodgy as i can't seem to get the timer interrupt on the pic chip to work propery
example pattern:
Non-Https Image Link
the device itself:
Non-Https Image Link
hopefully i'll eventually be able to put this on staves & pois
BTW, I really have to thank hyperlight & polarity (especially polarity's site about his led poi). if it wasn't for you guys, i'd probably would have never started this project thinking that it'll be too hard. Cheers!
EDIT: more patterns
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
and i just realised that the darned thing can't run all it's LEDs for more than 15mins as the batteries go flat (which is why the patterns look a little weird & dim at places)
EDITED_BY: The Misguided Oracle (1132020063)
After a month of messing around, i've finally produced my first povStick! (pov = persistance of vision, not povo). first prototype is rather dodgy as i can't seem to get the timer interrupt on the pic chip to work propery
example pattern:
Non-Https Image Link
the device itself:
Non-Https Image Link
hopefully i'll eventually be able to put this on staves & pois
BTW, I really have to thank hyperlight & polarity (especially polarity's site about his led poi). if it wasn't for you guys, i'd probably would have never started this project thinking that it'll be too hard. Cheers!
EDIT: more patterns
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
and i just realised that the darned thing can't run all it's LEDs for more than 15mins as the batteries go flat (which is why the patterns look a little weird & dim at places)
EDITED_BY: The Misguided Oracle (1132020063)
Internet Hate Machine
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
Posted:
Woooooooooooooooooo!
I likes!
Cannae wait to see your staffs
Woooooooooooooooooo!
I likes!
Cannae wait to see your staffs
The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."
GOLD Member
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
well, i'd have to find someway to make the pcb first... as opposed to doing it myself (which involves sitting 1/2 naked in my room & drilling 240+ holes by hand with a tiny little twist drill)
well, i'd have to find someway to make the pcb first... as opposed to doing it myself (which involves sitting 1/2 naked in my room & drilling 240+ holes by hand with a tiny little twist drill)
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
Is that picture actually the effect? It looks digital. If it really looks like that, its pretty damn cool.
Is that picture actually the effect? It looks digital. If it really looks like that, its pretty damn cool.
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
GOLD Member
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
yeah, the pic is really the effect. but it looks much cooler as a picture than in real life :P
yeah, the pic is really the effect. but it looks much cooler as a picture than in real life :P
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Funky stuff indeed, and i'm glad we inspired you enough to get started If you're struggling with interrupt code, I can have a look at it if you like? PM it to me and I'll see if I can spot anything obvious
Funky stuff indeed, and i'm glad we inspired you enough to get started
If you're struggling with interrupt code, I can have a look at it if you like? PM it to me and I'll see if I can spot anything obvious Cake or Death?
GOLD Member
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
thanks hyperlight, I'll fix up the stuff and attempt to comment my code (no comments at all whatsoever) before pm'ing you.
thanks hyperlight, I'll fix up the stuff and attempt to comment my code (no comments at all whatsoever) before pm'ing you.
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
heh, I like a challenge
heh, I like a challenge
Cake or Death?
GOLD Member
Member
13 posts
Location: lower saxony, Germany
Member
13 posts
Location: lower saxony, Germany
Posted:
Really looks good. What do you use as processor?
Really looks good. What do you use as processor?
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
What batteries are you using? By my calculations, they ought to draw a similar amount of current to my hyperlights. Try some NiMH batteries - you can get capacities right up to 2500mAh!
What batteries are you using? By my calculations, they ought to draw a similar amount of current to my hyperlights. Try some NiMH batteries - you can get capacities right up to 2500mAh!
Cake or Death?
GOLD Member
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
IgnisLeo, I'm using a PIC16F877A, though I think I could swap it out for any other 40pin PIC chip (assuming the pin-out is the same).
Hyperlight, I'm using 3xAA batteries. but then the thing is each LED is actually a package with 3 seprate LEDs (it's a 4 legged LED actually), so 16 x 3 x 20mA = 960mA ... i just swapped the batts today, dosen't seem to fix the probs of some of the LEDs being dim... weird... I hope i didn't screw something up as I really really don't want to remake this PCB (way too many holes to drill by hand).
With NiMH batts, what's kind of drain rate I can expect from it? I mean although it can spit out 2500mAh, i don't I should be running something that requires 2500mA per hr from it :P
also next version of this is gonna be single colour, but will have 32 LEDs on each side of the board, so I'll definately need something that'll give that enough juice.
IgnisLeo, I'm using a PIC16F877A, though I think I could swap it out for any other 40pin PIC chip (assuming the pin-out is the same).
Hyperlight, I'm using 3xAA batteries. but then the thing is each LED is actually a package with 3 seprate LEDs (it's a 4 legged LED actually), so 16 x 3 x 20mA = 960mA ... i just swapped the batts today, dosen't seem to fix the probs of some of the LEDs being dim... weird... I hope i didn't screw something up as I really really don't want to remake this PCB (way too many holes to drill by hand).
With NiMH batts, what's kind of drain rate I can expect from it? I mean although it can spit out 2500mAh, i don't I should be running something that requires 2500mA per hr from it :P
also next version of this is gonna be single colour, but will have 32 LEDs on each side of the board, so I'll definately need something that'll give that enough juice.
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Yeah, that's what I thought. If all three leds (well technically they're luxeons not LEDs, but close enough) are on in my hyperlights, they draw ~1.05A. the 2500mAh refers to how much energy is stored. If I ran all three LEDs continuously, I would (theoretically) get 2.5 hours. NiMH batteries are better than regular alchaline batteries because they retain their voltage (~1.2v) for something approaching 80% of their capacity, and can also cope with very high current drains.
Running strobed patterns, I get something like 5 or 6 hours of light (maybe more) before I notice them starting to dim!!!
40 pin chip controlling 16 LEDs which have 3 legs each? Means you'd be controlling ~13 LEDs, and that's assuming all 40 pins are outputs, which they clearly won't be... so either you've got some sort of magic powers, or you're using something like a multiplexor. Looks to me then like you've got four driver chips, and two multiplexors (or is it de-multiplexors? I can never remember which is which). Am I close?
Yeah, that's what I thought. If all three leds (well technically they're luxeons not LEDs, but close enough
) are on in my hyperlights, they draw ~1.05A. the 2500mAh refers to how much energy is stored. If I ran all three LEDs continuously, I would (theoretically) get 2.5 hours. NiMH batteries are better than regular alchaline batteries because they retain their voltage (~1.2v) for something approaching 80% of their capacity, and can also cope with very high current drains.Running strobed patterns, I get something like 5 or 6 hours of light (maybe more) before I notice them starting to dim!!!
40 pin chip controlling 16 LEDs which have 3 legs each? Means you'd be controlling ~13 LEDs, and that's assuming all 40 pins are outputs, which they clearly won't be... so either you've got some sort of magic powers, or you're using something like a multiplexor. Looks to me then like you've got four driver chips, and two multiplexors (or is it de-multiplexors? I can never remember which is which). Am I close?
Cake or Death?
GOLD Member
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
Well, the 40pin chip has something like 36 io lines, i was orginally going to go with only 12x3 leds, but after doing a bit of research, i ended up using 6x 8-bit serial to parallel shift-registers to drive the LEDs (looks like 2 diff components because they came from 2 batches or something...), not sure if that's the problem with the leds not getting enough current now (although the datasheet says that they should... problem is that i learnt this is bits & pieces, so now i'm having trouble trying to troubleshoot my circuit problems)
so in the end 16x3 leds are being controlled by 8 io lines
btw, I was wondering, is there possibiliy that i can get away with running 2x 20mA LEDs from an output line on the PIC? (though i think that'll mean 1.28A going though the PIC if all LEDs are on)? or must i finally learn how to use transistors :P
EDITED_BY: The Misguided Oracle (1132297821)
Well, the 40pin chip has something like 36 io lines, i was orginally going to go with only 12x3 leds, but after doing a bit of research, i ended up using 6x 8-bit serial to parallel shift-registers to drive the LEDs (looks like 2 diff components because they came from 2 batches or something...), not sure if that's the problem with the leds not getting enough current now (although the datasheet says that they should... problem is that i learnt this is bits & pieces, so now i'm having trouble trying to troubleshoot my circuit problems)
so in the end 16x3 leds are being controlled by 8 io lines
btw, I was wondering, is there possibiliy that i can get away with running 2x 20mA LEDs from an output line on the PIC? (though i think that'll mean 1.28A going though the PIC if all LEDs are on)? or must i finally learn how to use transistors :P
EDITED_BY: The Misguided Oracle (1132297821)
SILVER Member
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
Posted:
Very nice. I'm thinking space invaders, but I wouldn't want to try that with Luxeons 32 LEDs at £8 each= £256 ($AU600).
Never thought of using shift registers, so I've been stuck at 4 RGB leds as I've only got 16 I/O lines on my 16F88s.
I've been trying to come up with something for a couple of LED fire swords. I've got some Ubicom SX28s (about 40 times as fast as PICs) that could handle the extra cycles needed.
With shift registers I could use 32 RGB leds for each sword (superfluxes I think ), and still have plenty of I/O lines to spare for memory and controls. I'd need a heck of a lot of wire though.
Note to self: Buy shares in copper mining company
Did you check to total output current of the shift registers? The per channel current may be right for the LEDs, but on most chips the maximum combined output can't equal the number of outputs X current per channel, so there could be less current than you expect. I'm still using transistors and current limiting resistors. They take a lot of soldering, but I'm getting near optimum current to each LED.
Very nice. I'm thinking space invaders, but I wouldn't want to try that with Luxeons
32 LEDs at £8 each= £256 ($AU600).Never thought of using shift registers, so I've been stuck at 4 RGB leds as I've only got 16 I/O lines on my 16F88s.
I've been trying to come up with something for a couple of LED fire swords. I've got some Ubicom SX28s (about 40 times as fast as PICs) that could handle the extra cycles needed.
With shift registers I could use 32 RGB leds for each sword (superfluxes I think
), and still have plenty of I/O lines to spare for memory and controls. I'd need a heck of a lot of wire though. Note to self: Buy shares in copper mining company
Did you check to total output current of the shift registers? The per channel current may be right for the LEDs, but on most chips the maximum combined output can't equal the number of outputs X current per channel, so there could be less current than you expect. I'm still using transistors and current limiting resistors. They take a lot of soldering, but I'm getting near optimum current to each LED.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
GOLD Member
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
I checked the datasheet for the shift regs (74HC595), I think it is able to dissipate enough power to run all the leds connected to it at once. has 500mW dissipation & I'm running 8 x 20mA x 2~3.1v (depending on colour). so that should keep me withing the 500mW (well, the blue & green leds are being run at 3.1v, so it's awfully close to the maximum).
The weird thing however is that it ran perfectly well the first time round. in first pic, you could actually see yellow, but when i gave that same pattern another go, i no longer see yellow except for 4 leds in the centre which are very dim... I'm begining to think I might have somewhat fried the shift reg or something like that :|
I checked the datasheet for the shift regs (74HC595), I think it is able to dissipate enough power to run all the leds connected to it at once. has 500mW dissipation & I'm running 8 x 20mA x 2~3.1v (depending on colour). so that should keep me withing the 500mW (well, the blue & green leds are being run at 3.1v, so it's awfully close to the maximum).
The weird thing however is that it ran perfectly well the first time round. in first pic, you could actually see yellow, but when i gave that same pattern another go, i no longer see yellow except for 4 leds in the centre which are very dim... I'm begining to think I might have somewhat fried the shift reg or something like that :|
GOLD Member
Member
13 posts
Location: lower saxony, Germany
Member
13 posts
Location: lower saxony, Germany
Posted:
Thanks for the info about the PIC. Considering the data sheet, one output line can only source 25mA, so I think you will have to use a transistor if trying to drive 2x20mA. But that should not be a big problem.
Using a transistor could eventually also be a solution for the dim LEDs currently in your circuit. One output line may source enough current for one active LED, but if all LEDs of one chip are on, the chip may not be capable of sourcing enough current for all lines.
Thanks for the info about the PIC. Considering the data sheet, one output line can only source 25mA, so I think you will have to use a transistor if trying to drive 2x20mA. But that should not be a big problem.
Using a transistor could eventually also be a solution for the dim LEDs currently in your circuit. One output line may source enough current for one active LED, but if all LEDs of one chip are on, the chip may not be capable of sourcing enough current for all lines.
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Is that with fresh batteries?
Looking at those photo's, half of each pattern looks dim. I wonder if the sizes of the tracks on your PCB are smaller on the half driving the bottom compared to the top (or visa versa).
Written by: The Misguided Oracle
The weird thing however is that it ran perfectly well the first time round. in first pic, you could actually see yellow, but when i gave that same pattern another go, i no longer see yellow except for 4 leds in the centre which are very dim... I'm begining to think I might have somewhat fried the shift reg or something like that :|
Is that with fresh batteries?
Looking at those photo's, half of each pattern looks dim. I wonder if the sizes of the tracks on your PCB are smaller on the half driving the bottom compared to the top (or visa versa).
Cake or Death?
GOLD Member
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
yup, fresh set of batts
yup, fresh set of batts
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
How strange! Oh, and Polarity...
...try and tell me you're not tempted?
How strange! Oh, and Polarity...
Written by:
Very nice. I'm thinking space invaders, but I wouldn't want to try that with Luxeons 32 LEDs at £8 each= £256 ($AU600).
...try and tell me you're not tempted?
Cake or Death?
GOLD Member
enthusiast
389 posts
Location: Utrecht [NL], Netherlands
enthusiast
389 posts
Location: Utrecht [NL], Netherlands
Posted:
Yeah, and you'll go blind... damn those bitches are bright!
Yeah, and you'll go blind... damn those bitches are bright!
"Don’t know how long, this one’s gonna take;
I could fail, but I’d rather be a fuckup, than a fake"
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Posted:
Wow I like the last picture. How big is that device up there? It looks huge, think you would be able to shrink it in the future?
Wow I like the last picture. How big is that device up there? It looks huge, think you would be able to shrink it in the future?
Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat
'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
journeyman
89 posts
Location: Limoges (France)
89 posts
Location: Limoges (France)
Posted:
Looks great !
Looks great !
GOLD Member
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
Haha, Polarity, I can't wait wait to be blinded by your LED sword you'd be the funkiest jedi around. And I can run around screaming "ahhhh my eyes! my eyes!"
It's currently 5.6cm x 11.5cm it could be smaller if i used a double sided board & some surface mount comonents. And if i can find a way of etching this properly (since doing it by hand isn't all that great). Although this is more a proof of concept, I'm working towards eventually making and entire staff like this.
UCOF, what in the world is that machine for?
Haha, Polarity, I can't wait wait to be blinded by your LED sword
you'd be the funkiest jedi around. And I can run around screaming "ahhhh my eyes! my eyes!"Written by: Brit_Joe
Wow I like the last picture. How big is that device up there? It looks huge, think you would be able to shrink it in the future?
It's currently 5.6cm x 11.5cm it could be smaller if i used a double sided board & some surface mount comonents. And if i can find a way of etching this properly (since doing it by hand isn't all that great). Although this is more a proof of concept, I'm working towards eventually making and entire staff like this.
UCOF, what in the world is that machine for?
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Its for shrinking stuff
Its for shrinking stuff
GOLD Member
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
Shrinking eh? I wish I had that when I was packing my bags to move over there ... but only if they had something to expand it back again
Shrinking eh? I wish I had that when I was packing my bags to move over there
... but only if they had something to expand it back again GOLD Member
enthusiast
389 posts
Location: Utrecht [NL], Netherlands
enthusiast
389 posts
Location: Utrecht [NL], Netherlands
Posted:
So how's your project progressing Misguided Oracle?
I've been playing a bit around... ever thought of hidden messages?
Non-Https Image Link
oh well. soon ill be ordering 60 superflux leds, 60 transistors, at least 10 shift regs and 6 red laser diodes... trust me, im not up to something
So how's your project progressing Misguided Oracle?
I've been playing a bit around... ever thought of hidden messages?
Non-Https Image Link
oh well. soon ill be ordering 60 superflux leds, 60 transistors, at least 10 shift regs and 6 red laser diodes... trust me, im not up to something
"Don’t know how long, this one’s gonna take;
I could fail, but I’d rather be a fuckup, than a fake"
GOLD Member
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
project isn't going as well as i'd like. Kinda stuck on how to make a staff (that'll be usable for contact and won't shatter into a million pieces if i drop it) that's lit all the way from end to end... electronics & programming shouldn't be that big a problem. it's just the actual design & mounting of leds that's driving me nuts...
oh and i've thought of the hidden messages thing, only problem is that you'd have to move it pretty fast if you want to display a message of any decent length rather than just "hello"
project isn't going as well as i'd like. Kinda stuck on how to make a staff (that'll be usable for contact and won't shatter into a million pieces if i drop it) that's lit all the way from end to end... electronics & programming shouldn't be that big a problem. it's just the actual design & mounting of leds that's driving me nuts...
oh and i've thought of the hidden messages thing, only problem is that you'd have to move it pretty fast if you want to display a message of any decent length rather than just "hello"
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
How wide can the handle be? I've only got one staff and it's ~2cm diameter. The biggest problem I can foresee is going to be stashing the batteries somewhere, getting a reasonable weight at either end, and probably most difficult of all; making something that won't bend too much when thrown about. I've got some polycarbonate tube which is ~22mm ID with a 2mm wall. It's pretty tough, but probably rather wide for what we want.
How wide can the handle be? I've only got one staff and it's ~2cm diameter. The biggest problem I can foresee is going to be stashing the batteries somewhere, getting a reasonable weight at either end, and probably most difficult of all; making something that won't bend too much when thrown about. I've got some polycarbonate tube which is ~22mm ID with a 2mm wall. It's pretty tough, but probably rather wide for what we want.
Cake or Death?
enthusiast
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posted:
Yup
It's a bugger!
Good luck!
I'll shamelessly plug my site, though...
https://www.mo-seph.com/main/fire/coldfire/staff
And I've got new designs in my head, but no time to do them
Written by: The Misguided Oracle
electronics & programming shouldn't be that big a problem. it's just the actual design & mounting of leds that's driving me nuts...
Yup
It's a bugger!
Good luck!
I'll shamelessly plug my site, though...
https://www.mo-seph.com/main/fire/coldfire/staff
And I've got new designs in my head, but no time to do them
monkeys ate my brain
GOLD Member
enthusiast
389 posts
Location: Utrecht [NL], Netherlands
enthusiast
389 posts
Location: Utrecht [NL], Netherlands
Posted:
@mo-seph. that staff of yours looks like what I have in my head. but im going for a rgb version still have to work a secure design, like everyone does. at the moment im in for gluegun or epoxy (though the last is not transparent...)
for my poi (and future staff projects) im now about to order around 20 shift-regs, 100 transistors and some other stuff. and when my bank account allows me to (just a few days I hope) ill be ordering around 100 superflux rgb leds...
im insane?
Naaaaaah!
@mo-seph. that staff of yours looks like what I have in my head. but im going for a rgb version
still have to work a secure design, like everyone does. at the moment im in for gluegun or epoxy (though the last is not transparent...)for my poi (and future staff projects) im now about to order around 20 shift-regs, 100 transistors and some other stuff. and when my bank account allows me to (just a few days I hope) ill be ordering around 100 superflux rgb leds...
im insane?
Naaaaaah!
"Don’t know how long, this one’s gonna take;
I could fail, but I’d rather be a fuckup, than a fake"
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