Forums > Social Discussion > Energy calculations (and peak oil) doomsday discussion thread
Login/Join to Participatejourneyman
97 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
97 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Posted:
As prommised under "hydrogen Powered Cars" Ive starded a new thread for energy calculations, etc.
Some quick calculations to consider THERE ARE 2 ERRORS HERE the Earth's radius is 6.36*10^6m and I forgot to convert 1KW into 1000W SO THE FOLLOWING IS NOT CORRECT see post 4 on this thread for the correct calculations and remember that doing sums when tired is not a good idea.
Radius of Earth = 3.37 * 10^6 M, Therefore area of Eath cut down the centre and stuck in the sun = 3.57*10^13 M2
Area of Earth * solar intensity( 1kw per m2) *24Hr * 3600 seconds per hour = 3.08*10^18 Joules per day.
Assuming 2% of this energy is converted to biomass and 1/3 of the Earth is not under water , Thats 1.85 * 10^17 joules to play with.
Thats about 31 MJ per person per day. CORRECTION ITS ACTUALLY 12238MJ
One value Ive recently heard for the energy practically able to be harnessed from a litre of hydrocabon fuel, (9.1 kilowatt hours ), equates to about 33 MJ.
SEE FURTHER DOWN FOR CORRECTED SUMS ,Ive left this up to make it easier to spot were the errors were and I'll remove it in a few days time.
Now you see the problem with biofuel, hydrogen from solar, etc, THERE JUST IS NOT ENOUGH ENERGY COMMING IN TO REPLACE WHAT WE USE. The only option is to live within our means.
For even more bad news on how soon that time will come, look up stuff on "peak oil" and dispare if your satisfaction comes from anything reliant on fossil fuels.
EDITED_BY: The_Magnesium_Master (1131569533)
As prommised under "hydrogen Powered Cars" Ive starded a new thread for energy calculations, etc.
Some quick calculations to consider THERE ARE 2 ERRORS HERE the Earth's radius is 6.36*10^6m and I forgot to convert 1KW into 1000W SO THE FOLLOWING IS NOT CORRECT see post 4 on this thread for the correct calculations and remember that doing sums when tired is not a good idea.
Radius of Earth = 3.37 * 10^6 M, Therefore area of Eath cut down the centre and stuck in the sun = 3.57*10^13 M2
Area of Earth * solar intensity( 1kw per m2) *24Hr * 3600 seconds per hour = 3.08*10^18 Joules per day.
Assuming 2% of this energy is converted to biomass and 1/3 of the Earth is not under water , Thats 1.85 * 10^17 joules to play with.
Thats about 31 MJ per person per day. CORRECTION ITS ACTUALLY 12238MJ
One value Ive recently heard for the energy practically able to be harnessed from a litre of hydrocabon fuel, (9.1 kilowatt hours ), equates to about 33 MJ.
SEE FURTHER DOWN FOR CORRECTED SUMS ,Ive left this up to make it easier to spot were the errors were and I'll remove it in a few days time.
Now you see the problem with biofuel, hydrogen from solar, etc, THERE JUST IS NOT ENOUGH ENERGY COMMING IN TO REPLACE WHAT WE USE. The only option is to live within our means.
For even more bad news on how soon that time will come, look up stuff on "peak oil" and dispare if your satisfaction comes from anything reliant on fossil fuels.
EDITED_BY: The_Magnesium_Master (1131569533)
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
hmm, interesting new twist in here...
Hope: I hope things are going to work out any ways with or w/out my personal contribution (see how I smartly merge the two preceding connotations?) I hope, because I don't know anything really, but I tend to believe in this or that opinion/ thesis/ philosophy/ prediction(according to my individual wiring - glass half empty or half full)
I can see clear evidence of global warming and notice the prices for oil rising. Oil prices *are* rising, but is this really due to diminishing supply? Or is it due to the ongoing crisis with Iran, the situation in Iraq and missing investments from major oil companies, hurricanes affecting the US oil production, Chinas increasing demand? Does it really mean that we're doomed? That mankind will be wiped off the surface (by 2012)?
We look at the evidence and everyone is drawing different conclusions according to their personality... IMHO
Tesla develops a sports car that runs on 100% electricity. The sea levels are rising, but also more water vaporises. Greenlanders start pragmatically growing tomatoes and utilize the changing conditions to their benefit (article). The land in lower altitude might get flooded, but there still is vast open space in the northern hemisphere that might provide mankind with enough room and food.
There are so many extraordinary sources of energy, we still are looking for a way to efficiently utilize the power of lightning, solar power by far ain't exploited as is the heat generated in planet earths core.
*humms: emancipate yourself from mental slavery...*
hmm, interesting new twist in here...
Hope: I hope things are going to work out any ways with or w/out my personal contribution (see how I smartly merge the two preceding connotations?) I hope, because I don't know anything really, but I tend to believe in this or that opinion/ thesis/ philosophy/ prediction(according to my individual wiring - glass half empty or half full)
I can see clear evidence of global warming and notice the prices for oil rising. Oil prices *are* rising, but is this really due to diminishing supply? Or is it due to the ongoing crisis with Iran, the situation in Iraq and missing investments from major oil companies, hurricanes affecting the US oil production, Chinas increasing demand? Does it really mean that we're doomed? That mankind will be wiped off the surface (by 2012)?
We look at the evidence and everyone is drawing different conclusions according to their personality... IMHO
Tesla develops a sports car that runs on 100% electricity. The sea levels are rising, but also more water vaporises. Greenlanders start pragmatically growing tomatoes and utilize the changing conditions to their benefit (article). The land in lower altitude might get flooded, but there still is vast open space in the northern hemisphere that might provide mankind with enough room and food.
There are so many extraordinary sources of energy, we still are looking for a way to efficiently utilize the power of lightning, solar power by far ain't exploited as is the heat generated in planet earths core.
*humms: emancipate yourself from mental slavery...*
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
hope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope
despair: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Despair
I think it's pretty telling that hope has a ton of stuff written about it, and nobody has bothered for despair.
Hope inspires action when there isn't any rational reason to do something. My vote doesn't count in an election, if I vote or if I don't makes no difference, if the margin is greater than 1, and it usually is. If I turn off a light or not, doesn't make a difference, or if I take a plastic bag from the supermarket and add it to the already large amount of rubbish I produce. But I hope it might make a difference, without any evidence or real chance that it will. I hope my actions can affect the world, even if I don't see the effects.
hope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope
despair: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Despair
I think it's pretty telling that hope has a ton of stuff written about it, and nobody has bothered for despair.
Hope inspires action when there isn't any rational reason to do something. My vote doesn't count in an election, if I vote or if I don't makes no difference, if the margin is greater than 1, and it usually is. If I turn off a light or not, doesn't make a difference, or if I take a plastic bag from the supermarket and add it to the already large amount of rubbish I produce. But I hope it might make a difference, without any evidence or real chance that it will. I hope my actions can affect the world, even if I don't see the effects.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Usually I take named plastic bag and put the rubbish inside... makes it less bad...
Are we not inclined to think that our good deeds make that difference, but hoping that our "bad" deeds won't? ... something I love about the human mind.
Some ppl act better out of despair, some from hope... it's individuality I reckon - and education.
Does it appear as if I am hijacking this thread?
I'll be quiet now.
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1190475455)
Usually I take named plastic bag and put the rubbish inside...
makes it less bad...Are we not inclined to think that our good deeds make that difference, but hoping that our "bad" deeds won't? ... something I love about the human mind.
Some ppl act better out of despair, some from hope... it's individuality I reckon - and education.
Does it appear as if I am hijacking this thread?
I'll be quiet now.EDITED_BY: FireTom (1190475455)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
GOLD Member
Introverted
833 posts
Location: Norf London, United Kingdom
Introverted
833 posts
Location: Norf London, United Kingdom
Posted:
Interesting ecological analogy
Well I thought so anyway.
Interesting ecological analogy
Well I thought so anyway.
My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean
If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?
GOLD Member
Introverted
833 posts
Location: Norf London, United Kingdom
Introverted
833 posts
Location: Norf London, United Kingdom
Posted:
Finally some mainstream exposure
About time. This is the first mainstream expose on peak oil I've seen, hopefully other papers will pick up the gauntlet and run with it.
Finally some mainstream exposure
About time. This is the first mainstream expose on peak oil I've seen, hopefully other papers will pick up the gauntlet and run with it.
My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean
If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
wanted to reply to this ages ago but got sidetracked by life
Good points you raise MCP. Looks like I have to adjust my definitions of hope and despair. Thanks!
I saw hope as being in the religious context; 'I hope I go to heaven after I die' - in my mind this kind of hope has been fed to people over the ages to help them through a tough life without offering any options. If this kind of hope were applied to climate change, eg 'I hope science finds the answer' it would be an excuse not to do anything on a personal level...
EDITED_BY: Pyrolific (1193093182)
wanted to reply to this ages ago but got sidetracked by life
Good points you raise MCP. Looks like I have to adjust my definitions of hope and despair. Thanks!
I saw hope as being in the religious context; 'I hope I go to heaven after I die' - in my mind this kind of hope has been fed to people over the ages to help them through a tough life without offering any options. If this kind of hope were applied to climate change, eg 'I hope science finds the answer' it would be an excuse not to do anything on a personal level...
EDITED_BY: Pyrolific (1193093182)
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
hope has it's dark side too...
"In Human, All Too Human, philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche had this to say about hope:
Hope. Pandora brought the jar with the evils and opened it. It was the gods' gift to man, on the outside a beautiful, enticing gift, called the "lucky jar." Then all the evils, those lively, winged beings, flew out of it. Since that time, they roam around and do harm to men by day and night. One single evil had not yet slipped out of the jar. As Zeus had wished, Pandora slammed the top down and it remained inside. So now man has the lucky jar in his house forever and thinks the world of the treasure. It is at his service; he reaches for it when he fancies it. For he does not know that that jar which Pandora brought was the jar of evils, and he takes the remaining evil for the greatest worldly good--it is hope, for Zeus did not want man to throw his life away, no matter how much the other evils might torment him, but rather to go on letting himself be tormented anew. To that end, he gives man hope. In truth, it is the most evil of evils because it prolongs man's torment. "
hope has it's dark side too...
"In Human, All Too Human, philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche had this to say about hope:
Hope. Pandora brought the jar with the evils and opened it. It was the gods' gift to man, on the outside a beautiful, enticing gift, called the "lucky jar." Then all the evils, those lively, winged beings, flew out of it. Since that time, they roam around and do harm to men by day and night. One single evil had not yet slipped out of the jar. As Zeus had wished, Pandora slammed the top down and it remained inside. So now man has the lucky jar in his house forever and thinks the world of the treasure. It is at his service; he reaches for it when he fancies it. For he does not know that that jar which Pandora brought was the jar of evils, and he takes the remaining evil for the greatest worldly good--it is hope, for Zeus did not want man to throw his life away, no matter how much the other evils might torment him, but rather to go on letting himself be tormented anew. To that end, he gives man hope. In truth, it is the most evil of evils because it prolongs man's torment. "
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
which is why hope dies last - after all man has perished already...
which is why hope dies last - after all man has perished already...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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