Forums > Social Discussion > one thing too many "professionals" forget
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
i have met too many prima donnas in fire performance, to the point where i feel this statement is necessary. they feel that since they perform with fire, often with all the stage performance of WHITE NOISE, that they are entitled to treat anyone without a regular gig as nobodys, and the audience gets no respect at all, not so much as a bow, or a "thank you."
here's the point i am trying to make: AS PERFORMERS, EVERYTHING WE ARE AND EVERYTHING WE HAVE COMES WITH A DEBT. it is a debt we owe to the audience. we owe it to the people on the drums. we owe it to the person in the DJ booth. we owe it to the person who saw us perform and had the good graces to bring us into their fold by hiring or inviting us to perform for them. it is a debt that we are not done paying until the last memory of who we are and what we do is gone, faded into history. look at elvis. he'll never be done paying. no one will forget the "thank you, thank you very much" with the roguish turn of his lip as he spoke. but if you treat the audience like PVAEMENT to walk all over, never thank the drummers, the dj, or the people that brought you to where you are, you will be forgotten and forgotten quickly. FAME, NO MATTER HOW GREAT OR SMALL, IS FLEETING. never forget that. if fame is not what you're in it for, fine. personally i'm in it for the fun of performing, but fame has come anyway. even if i had no audience, i would still be performing, if only to myself. but i have an audience to please, so i perform to them. i do not use static performance routines, i play TO the crowd, not just IN FRONT of them. i thank them for attending, and call the drummers up to center stage for their rightful bow at the end of the show. i thank the people that brought me in to perform. i never forget. i never will. and neither should any other performer.
i have met too many prima donnas in fire performance, to the point where i feel this statement is necessary. they feel that since they perform with fire, often with all the stage performance of WHITE NOISE, that they are entitled to treat anyone without a regular gig as nobodys, and the audience gets no respect at all, not so much as a bow, or a "thank you."
here's the point i am trying to make: AS PERFORMERS, EVERYTHING WE ARE AND EVERYTHING WE HAVE COMES WITH A DEBT. it is a debt we owe to the audience. we owe it to the people on the drums. we owe it to the person in the DJ booth. we owe it to the person who saw us perform and had the good graces to bring us into their fold by hiring or inviting us to perform for them. it is a debt that we are not done paying until the last memory of who we are and what we do is gone, faded into history. look at elvis. he'll never be done paying. no one will forget the "thank you, thank you very much" with the roguish turn of his lip as he spoke. but if you treat the audience like PVAEMENT to walk all over, never thank the drummers, the dj, or the people that brought you to where you are, you will be forgotten and forgotten quickly. FAME, NO MATTER HOW GREAT OR SMALL, IS FLEETING. never forget that. if fame is not what you're in it for, fine. personally i'm in it for the fun of performing, but fame has come anyway. even if i had no audience, i would still be performing, if only to myself. but i have an audience to please, so i perform to them. i do not use static performance routines, i play TO the crowd, not just IN FRONT of them. i thank them for attending, and call the drummers up to center stage for their rightful bow at the end of the show. i thank the people that brought me in to perform. i never forget. i never will. and neither should any other performer.
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
SILVER Member
newbie
17 posts
Location: Kentucky, USA
newbie
17 posts
Location: Kentucky, USA
Posted:
Hello Frederick,
I fully agree with your rantings. You sound upset about some childish behaviours in your vicinity. I noticed you have a troupe. I need your advice if you have any to give about liability insurance. I started a thread about Foxfire Hypnotica being shut down by police. I would avoid repeating myself if you would not mind looking at this recent thread, and helping out a fledgling troupe with some experienced opinion.
Oh, and yes, we do thank everyone. We are so grateful we are downright giddy with thankfulness. Our drummers rock, and so do the folks who let us perform in their business parking lots, etc. There really are not enough thank you's in the world, but the people who are not saying them are just clouded with whatever's on their minds, and who knows? Maybe someone's dog died, so they were mean or short fused with others. I have been rude before, so I am no better.
Hello Frederick,
I fully agree with your rantings. You sound upset about some childish behaviours in your vicinity. I noticed you have a troupe. I need your advice if you have any to give about liability insurance. I started a thread about Foxfire Hypnotica being shut down by police. I would avoid repeating myself if you would not mind looking at this recent thread, and helping out a fledgling troupe with some experienced opinion.
Oh, and yes, we do thank everyone. We are so grateful we are downright giddy with thankfulness. Our drummers rock, and so do the folks who let us perform in their business parking lots, etc. There really are not enough thank you's in the world, but the people who are not saying them are just clouded with whatever's on their minds, and who knows? Maybe someone's dog died, so they were mean or short fused with others. I have been rude before, so I am no better.
Namaste,
Devakasi (Divinity Shining)
Internet Hate Machine
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
Posted:
The whole "you owe it to your audience" thing sounds pretentious to me.
When I perform *caution: possible (but rare) arrogance ahead* I perform for me. I love spinning. Love it. Cant get enough of it. And I spin for myself.
*is in a contreversial mood*
My opinion will change tomorow methinks
The whole "you owe it to your audience" thing sounds pretentious to me.
When I perform *caution: possible (but rare) arrogance ahead* I perform for me. I love spinning. Love it. Cant get enough of it. And I spin for myself.
*is in a contreversial mood*
My opinion will change tomorow methinks
The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."
Internet Hate Machine
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
Posted:
Having said that, I'm not a professional
Having said that, I'm not a professional
The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."
BRONZE Member
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
Fame is relative.
Fame is relative.
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If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Fred, you gotta get outta Oregon. From what you have shared with us in many of your posts, your surrounded by idiots and there are many other people out there that share your perspectives.
FRD, if you perform for yourself, you aren't really performing. Nothing wrong with that, unless you claim to be a performer whch you admitted you were not. If you do decide to become a performer, it's for the audience. You don't have to be a performer to spin though.
Fred, you gotta get outta Oregon. From what you have shared with us in many of your posts, your surrounded by idiots and there are many other people out there that share your perspectives.
FRD, if you perform for yourself, you aren't really performing. Nothing wrong with that, unless you claim to be a performer whch you admitted you were not. If you do decide to become a performer, it's for the audience. You don't have to be a performer to spin though.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
cody, sometimes i have to think you're so right. the thing is, the troupe is getting things rolling, and i think i may be able to affect a change here in the way things are done, and in the way performers treat people.
cody, sometimes i have to think you're so right. the thing is, the troupe is getting things rolling, and i think i may be able to affect a change here in the way things are done, and in the way performers treat people.
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
true. in my daytime life i am unknown. get me to an SCA event and i'm some kind of icon in my kingdom. i can't go anywhere without being known. but even in that setting i am honest enough with myself to acknowledge that the audience is the only reason i have that fame, the drummers are the only reason my performance has any soul, and the person in charge of the event is the only reason i am allowed to perform. relative though it may be, it is still there. it makes no difference how great or small, it is still there, right alongside the debt.
Written by: flash fire
Fame is relative.
true. in my daytime life i am unknown. get me to an SCA event and i'm some kind of icon in my kingdom. i can't go anywhere without being known. but even in that setting i am honest enough with myself to acknowledge that the audience is the only reason i have that fame, the drummers are the only reason my performance has any soul, and the person in charge of the event is the only reason i am allowed to perform. relative though it may be, it is still there. it makes no difference how great or small, it is still there, right alongside the debt.
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
SILVER Member
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted:
Dont worry about it dude.
I have been DJ'ing at clubs, pubs and parties for years and have found that most people in 'the profession' have dissapeared so far into their own colon that they cant even see the audience any more.
Unfortunately when a some people consider themselves a 'professional' in any area they suddenly feel that they have a right to look down on anyone they see as an 'amateur' or a 'part-timer'.
Most of these guys are simply losers who, in time, will cease getting work due to the fact that their employers will find other people who are just as talented but far less arrogant and, as a result, fit in with the scene better.
Its not really about owing anything to an audience or the DJ (believe me most of them need to be thanked less!) or even the organiser. Instead it is simply a case of understanding that you are just another part of the entertainment as a whole. No one piece can exist without the others.
Dont worry about it dude.
I have been DJ'ing at clubs, pubs and parties for years and have found that most people in 'the profession' have dissapeared so far into their own colon that they cant even see the audience any more.
Unfortunately when a some people consider themselves a 'professional' in any area they suddenly feel that they have a right to look down on anyone they see as an 'amateur' or a 'part-timer'.
Most of these guys are simply losers who, in time, will cease getting work due to the fact that their employers will find other people who are just as talented but far less arrogant and, as a result, fit in with the scene better.
Its not really about owing anything to an audience or the DJ (believe me most of them need to be thanked less!) or even the organiser. Instead it is simply a case of understanding that you are just another part of the entertainment as a whole. No one piece can exist without the others.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I certainly agree with the sentiment.
But most of the club gigs I'm hired for I'm essentially "atmosphere". There's some guy stilt walking over there and there's some guy juggling fire over there and there's some scantily clad chick haning from the rafters and oh, hey, there's some guy over there spinning fire.
It would be really awkward if I did anything else but slip away when I was done.
If I'd ever seen a firespinner stop after a show and bow and stop the party to thank the DJs and drummers in the situations that I spin, I'd think he was the most arrogant **** I'd ever seen. Even our self proclaimed egomaniacs don't do that.
But I don't think that's the situation you're talking about. If there is a main performance and the spinners are bowing, they should acknowledge their support. You're right.
I certainly agree with the sentiment.
But most of the club gigs I'm hired for I'm essentially "atmosphere". There's some guy stilt walking over there and there's some guy juggling fire over there and there's some scantily clad chick haning from the rafters and oh, hey, there's some guy over there spinning fire.
It would be really awkward if I did anything else but slip away when I was done.
If I'd ever seen a firespinner stop after a show and bow and stop the party to thank the DJs and drummers in the situations that I spin, I'd think he was the most arrogant **** I'd ever seen. Even our self proclaimed egomaniacs don't do that.
But I don't think that's the situation you're talking about. If there is a main performance and the spinners are bowing, they should acknowledge their support. You're right.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
I gotta agree with NYC mostly.
and the times where i might be the center of attention, well, i'm usually to psyched and jumpy and dizzy and all sort of other stuff to do much more than try and find the safety to put out my wicks. and once that essential is done, well, usually the audience has moved on to something else.
besides, i don't see individual performers in cirque du soliel or something like that taking bows when they finish. sure at the end, but that is really only appropriate for a real, organized show where the audience watches the whole thing intently. in the few cases where i am involved in that, then yeah, it is proper to take a bow.
also most people who tune out an audience are doing it for reasons like concentration or getting over stage fright.
I gotta agree with NYC mostly.
and the times where i might be the center of attention, well, i'm usually to psyched and jumpy and dizzy and all sort of other stuff to do much more than try and find the safety to put out my wicks. and once that essential is done, well, usually the audience has moved on to something else.
besides, i don't see individual performers in cirque du soliel or something like that taking bows when they finish. sure at the end, but that is really only appropriate for a real, organized show where the audience watches the whole thing intently. in the few cases where i am involved in that, then yeah, it is proper to take a bow.
also most people who tune out an audience are doing it for reasons like concentration or getting over stage fright.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Vanize and NYC, your points and perspective are well taken and in those cases, yes going out of your way to grandstand yourself is over the top. But when you are "the" performance and when you finish, the audience is there and they are clapping and cheering, you need to acknowledge them and share it with the drummers.
My strongest talent is performing. I can do the simplest moves and capture an audience, I almost don't need to concentrate on the moves anymore they just happen and you can focus on the audience. It's almost impossible for me to be ambiant and I attempt to be as humbe as possible. I don't look down to new spinners, i embrace them and teach them.
I'm trying to communicate facts, and i may come accross as arrogant, but I want to show a perspective and a joy I don't think many of you have experienced by performing for the crowd.
Vanize and NYC, your points and perspective are well taken and in those cases, yes going out of your way to grandstand yourself is over the top. But when you are "the" performance and when you finish, the audience is there and they are clapping and cheering, you need to acknowledge them and share it with the drummers.
My strongest talent is performing. I can do the simplest moves and capture an audience, I almost don't need to concentrate on the moves anymore they just happen and you can focus on the audience. It's almost impossible for me to be ambiant and I attempt to be as humbe as possible. I don't look down to new spinners, i embrace them and teach them.
I'm trying to communicate facts, and i may come accross as arrogant, but I want to show a perspective and a joy I don't think many of you have experienced by performing for the crowd.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I think I pretty clearly said that Cody.
Written by: NYC
But I don't think that's the situation you're talking about. If there is a main performance and the spinners are bowing, they should acknowledge their support. You're right.
I think I pretty clearly said that Cody.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
you don't come across as arrogant to me, Cody. the thing is that when i do a show, i do a SHOW. i don't just perform a static choreography. yes, there is often a patter, but it's not all rehearsed. i perform TO the crowd, not IN FRONT of them. it's more akin to street performance. the applause raised for the drummers is between sets, and usually includes a request to get them refreshments. at the end of the show i thank the audience for attending, and our host for having us. this is the credit where it's due bit, and most performers seem to skip it entirely, or act as if they're simply owed the world because they are one of, oh, i don't know, thousands out there that perform with fire? and most of the time the most arrogant ones are those with the least stage presence. and NYC, i took your post in as a whole, not just a bit. i agree with you that if someone stopped the dj in the middle of his set to raise a round of applause for him, that guy would not only be deemed arrogant, but most likely would be headed for the door early. however if it came after the set was done, i don't think i'd view him/her as arrogant.
Written by: Cody
I'm trying to communicate facts, and i may come accross as arrogant, but I want to show a perspective and a joy I don't think many of you have experienced by performing for the crowd.
you don't come across as arrogant to me, Cody. the thing is that when i do a show, i do a SHOW. i don't just perform a static choreography. yes, there is often a patter, but it's not all rehearsed. i perform TO the crowd, not IN FRONT of them. it's more akin to street performance. the applause raised for the drummers is between sets, and usually includes a request to get them refreshments. at the end of the show i thank the audience for attending, and our host for having us. this is the credit where it's due bit, and most performers seem to skip it entirely, or act as if they're simply owed the world because they are one of, oh, i don't know, thousands out there that perform with fire? and most of the time the most arrogant ones are those with the least stage presence. and NYC, i took your post in as a whole, not just a bit. i agree with you that if someone stopped the dj in the middle of his set to raise a round of applause for him, that guy would not only be deemed arrogant, but most likely would be headed for the door early. however if it came after the set was done, i don't think i'd view him/her as arrogant.
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
so. what about the times when you are spinning and people are watching, but you don't want to be performing..
what do you do then?
R
so. what about the times when you are spinning and people are watching, but you don't want to be performing..
what do you do then?
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Turn your headphones up?
Know the feeling though Rob - not personally with poi, but with CJ. Curse it's hypnotic appearance
Turn your headphones up?
Know the feeling though Rob - not personally with poi, but with CJ. Curse it's hypnotic appearance
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
this is gonna sound REAL arrogant... but i never just spin. if i light, it's showtime. i am a performer, not a spinner. spinners can be blase' about what they do, i on the other hand cannot. it's not in my nature.chalk it up to the class clown in me, but i just can't. when you get the same audience members by and large at each show you do all year, it's hard not to push yourself to up the ante. are you familiar with the SCA? in the SCA, you get people who attend multiple events scattered all over the area all year round, which means that if you perform at all, you can't just be static. you have to push it to keep it interesting. before my troupe hit the scene in my kingdom, getting drummers was like pulling teeth. there wasn't much crowd to speak of, as spinning was just sort of a fringe activity. none of the performers bowed, none played to the audience, and to be honest they didn't look like they were performing at all, so much as rehearsing... now, the audience gathers before we perform, and the drummers come from out of the woodwork. and why? because we were the first to take a bow, to thank the drummers, and to thank the audience. at the end of each show, i even have the drummers come out and take their rightful bow...(let's face it, the show is every it as much theirs as it is ours.) it's these little things that give the audience the understanding that it isn't just about us, and that we enjoyed entertaining them as much (if not more) as they enjoyed the show. the drummers have at times come to me and thanked me for giving then the appreciation they got. no one did that before us, and the performers before us were also "professionals..." you know the type, the ones that mention they're professionals within two sentences of the start of any conversation, never once looking you in the eye if you also perform unless you kowtow to their "superiority." you want to know what feels the best about our performances? the times when we hear about someone in need... two people with broken backs, one girl killed by a train with a destitute family left behind, and another man who was hit by a car on his motorcycle and hospitalized for weeks... these people were people we passed a hat for. not a single red cent of that money left with us, and we wouldn't have it any other way... we did something to pay back on the debt. how many here can say they fault me for that? i doubt there's anyone.
Written by: bluecat
so. what about the times when you are spinning and people are watching, but you don't want to be performing..
what do you do then?
R
this is gonna sound REAL arrogant... but i never just spin. if i light, it's showtime. i am a performer, not a spinner. spinners can be blase' about what they do, i on the other hand cannot. it's not in my nature.chalk it up to the class clown in me, but i just can't. when you get the same audience members by and large at each show you do all year, it's hard not to push yourself to up the ante. are you familiar with the SCA? in the SCA, you get people who attend multiple events scattered all over the area all year round, which means that if you perform at all, you can't just be static. you have to push it to keep it interesting. before my troupe hit the scene in my kingdom, getting drummers was like pulling teeth. there wasn't much crowd to speak of, as spinning was just sort of a fringe activity. none of the performers bowed, none played to the audience, and to be honest they didn't look like they were performing at all, so much as rehearsing... now, the audience gathers before we perform, and the drummers come from out of the woodwork. and why? because we were the first to take a bow, to thank the drummers, and to thank the audience. at the end of each show, i even have the drummers come out and take their rightful bow...(let's face it, the show is every it as much theirs as it is ours.) it's these little things that give the audience the understanding that it isn't just about us, and that we enjoyed entertaining them as much (if not more) as they enjoyed the show. the drummers have at times come to me and thanked me for giving then the appreciation they got. no one did that before us, and the performers before us were also "professionals..." you know the type, the ones that mention they're professionals within two sentences of the start of any conversation, never once looking you in the eye if you also perform unless you kowtow to their "superiority." you want to know what feels the best about our performances? the times when we hear about someone in need... two people with broken backs, one girl killed by a train with a destitute family left behind, and another man who was hit by a car on his motorcycle and hospitalized for weeks... these people were people we passed a hat for. not a single red cent of that money left with us, and we wouldn't have it any other way... we did something to pay back on the debt. how many here can say they fault me for that? i doubt there's anyone.
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
hmmm.
never just spin? i'm talking about the times when you are out in a park, or at a spinning meet, not at a non fire based event.
must say that post does come ccross as a bit arrogant, but i agree your motives are good
i'd really like to see a performance of yours some time and to maybe get you into the fun of just spinning for yourself too
(from one performer to another )
R
hmmm.
never just spin? i'm talking about the times when you are out in a park, or at a spinning meet, not at a non fire based event.
must say that post does come ccross as a bit arrogant, but i agree your motives are good
i'd really like to see a performance of yours some time
and to maybe get you into the fun of just spinning for yourself too (from one performer to another
)R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
SILVER Member
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted:
Judge Jules
Written by: Frederick the Reckless
if someone stopped the dj in the middle of his set to raise a round of applause for him, that guy would not only be deemed arrogant, but most likely would be headed for the door early.
Judge Jules
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Sorry NYC I did miss that part, my bad
There is a different reaction for each situation. I hear what your saying blue cat, and there is nothing wrong with spinning for yourself. It's fun. I guess the misscommunication occurs when your performing or claiming to be performing. I'm a bit of a ham like Fred and it's actually pretty hard to just spin. I started a fire troup that practices once a week. It's been around for 5 years or so and there are alot of new spinners and intermediate spinners. If I go out just to spin, even for myself, everybody watches me and it becomes a performance. Yes sometimes I am working on something new and not focusing on the crowd, but the event is a practice. If it ends up being a performance at the end, I smile and acknowledge it. I don't bow or point out the drummers, It's just a casual thing in my environment. Now if I'm somewhere else that is geared towards performing to a crowd, it all changes. I only do what I can do well, not practice new moves, and I try to create a beginning a middle and an end to my performance for the audience.
I'm more fire spinner than I am a poi spinner. I hate to practice without fire, but I do it so I can learn new things to do with fire. True I would be much better if I just practiced without fire, but, well, I like fire.
And Fred, I really like and applaud you for your charity work. The only real barrier that keeps me from becoming a full time professional spinner it the actual collecting of money. It's just a personal feeling, I just want to have fun.
Sorry NYC I did miss that part, my bad
There is a different reaction for each situation. I hear what your saying blue cat, and there is nothing wrong with spinning for yourself. It's fun. I guess the misscommunication occurs when your performing or claiming to be performing. I'm a bit of a ham like Fred and it's actually pretty hard to just spin. I started a fire troup that practices once a week. It's been around for 5 years or so and there are alot of new spinners and intermediate spinners. If I go out just to spin, even for myself, everybody watches me and it becomes a performance. Yes sometimes I am working on something new and not focusing on the crowd, but the event is a practice. If it ends up being a performance at the end, I smile and acknowledge it. I don't bow or point out the drummers, It's just a casual thing in my environment. Now if I'm somewhere else that is geared towards performing to a crowd, it all changes. I only do what I can do well, not practice new moves, and I try to create a beginning a middle and an end to my performance for the audience.
I'm more fire spinner than I am a poi spinner. I hate to practice without fire, but I do it so I can learn new things to do with fire. True I would be much better if I just practiced without fire, but, well, I like fire.
And Fred, I really like and applaud you for your charity work. The only real barrier that keeps me from becoming a full time professional spinner it the actual collecting of money. It's just a personal feeling, I just want to have fun.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
i'm certainly not denying my hamminess. just that sometimes all i want to do is not be watched. 99% i'm up there showing off like there was no tomorrow.
so i'm with ya on most of that cody.
as an aside tho; i am full time, but i've never passed a hat. i only do free shows(as in, free for audience, i get paid by bookers) and i think that creates a totally different bond with an audience than busking does. what do you guys think?
i'm certainly not denying my hamminess. just that sometimes all i want to do is not be watched. 99% i'm up there showing off like there was no tomorrow.
so i'm with ya on most of that cody.
as an aside tho; i am full time, but i've never passed a hat. i only do free shows(as in, free for audience, i get paid by bookers) and i think that creates a totally different bond with an audience than busking does. what do you guys think?
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
vodka, i do spin for myself as well, it's called PRACTICE...LOL and i do that in private with my troupe. it gives us a chance to flub a move without worrying an audience.
at this time i should clarify a bit on performance. when onstage, i feed off the crowd, they feed off me. i feed off the drummers, they feed off me. it's a sort of symbiosis kind of feeling. it all builds into this sort of circuit, that gathers energy and eventually overloads to the point where people will come to me and tell me sunday that they haven't slept since friday's show.
vodka, i do spin for myself as well, it's called PRACTICE...LOL and i do that in private with my troupe. it gives us a chance to flub a move without worrying an audience.
at this time i should clarify a bit on performance. when onstage, i feed off the crowd, they feed off me. i feed off the drummers, they feed off me. it's a sort of symbiosis kind of feeling. it all builds into this sort of circuit, that gathers energy and eventually overloads to the point where people will come to me and tell me sunday that they haven't slept since friday's show.
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
They slept through the show?
Written by: Frederick the Reckless
..............................it all builds into this sort of circuit, that gathers energy and eventually overloads to the point where people will come to me and tell me sunday that they haven't slept since friday's show.
They slept through the show?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
ah, you know what i mean... (pokes Dave)
ah, you know what i mean... (pokes Dave)
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
Yeah but do you not just spin for yourself? Like on your own, because you enjoy spinning?
Written by: Frederick the Reckless
vodka, i do spin for myself as well, it's called PRACTICE...LOL and i do that in private with my troupe.
Yeah but do you not just spin for yourself? Like on your own, because you enjoy spinning?
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Interesting thread.
As a professional performer myself, I focus on the entertainment factor of what I'm doing.
an example is that I attend a juggling club here in Auckland, and I am probably the worst juggler there. However, I believe I am one of the best PERFORMERS of the group.
Forgetting about the audience is fine for some people, but not for me.
As far the as the event coordinator is concerned, its the audience reaction that creates value from an entertainment point of view.
If some guy can stand on the stage with a toothpick and a watermelon and have the crowd in stitches just by wiggling his ears, then he deserves just as much payment as me with my double firestaves, unicycle and cheeky grin.
If the crowd enjoy his hsow more than mine, he deserves more than me, and did a better job.
It's only by working with the audience that we earn our keep as entertainers (if getting paid to entertain) and that is how I judge myself when performing.
Oops, gotta get ready for a Guy Fawkes fire gig at the Auckland Viaduct (the weather looks challenging too)...
Ciao!
Interesting thread.
As a professional performer myself, I focus on the entertainment factor of what I'm doing.
an example is that I attend a juggling club here in Auckland, and I am probably the worst juggler there. However, I believe I am one of the best PERFORMERS of the group.
Forgetting about the audience is fine for some people, but not for me.
As far the as the event coordinator is concerned, its the audience reaction that creates value from an entertainment point of view.
If some guy can stand on the stage with a toothpick and a watermelon and have the crowd in stitches just by wiggling his ears, then he deserves just as much payment as me with my double firestaves, unicycle and cheeky grin.
If the crowd enjoy his hsow more than mine, he deserves more than me, and did a better job.
It's only by working with the audience that we earn our keep as entertainers (if getting paid to entertain) and that is how I judge myself when performing.
Oops, gotta get ready for a Guy Fawkes fire gig at the Auckland Viaduct (the weather looks challenging too)...
Ciao!
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BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
yeah, it's called practice. if i'm doing it for myself, it's not performing. think it through. like when i cook just for myself, it's a pretty plain affair. if i cook for others, then the nice spices come out, the extras are added, etc. spinning for myself, it's just spinning. i do it because i like it, yes, but it's not performing in my mind. in other words, please do not be so bloody simple-minded as to think for a second that i do not do this for the love of doing it. when i practice, it's fun, yes... but onstage where i get the energy and feedback from the crowd, THAT'S PERFORMANCE TIME. and if you are the only entertainment in that show, you owe it to the audience to give them a show. if you just spin, fine. you're not performing. if you read the crowd, play to their desires, interact with them, (within reason, mind you, no lighting their cigarette with a poi) and play TO them, that's performance. everything else is glorified rehearsal. and the audience is what drives me to perform this way. this is of course my opinion, and i hope you realize that i understand where you're coming from... if all you care to do is spin for yourself, cool. when i do that i call it practice.
yeah, it's called practice. if i'm doing it for myself, it's not performing. think it through. like when i cook just for myself, it's a pretty plain affair. if i cook for others, then the nice spices come out, the extras are added, etc. spinning for myself, it's just spinning. i do it because i like it, yes, but it's not performing in my mind. in other words, please do not be so bloody simple-minded as to think for a second that i do not do this for the love of doing it. when i practice, it's fun, yes... but onstage where i get the energy and feedback from the crowd, THAT'S PERFORMANCE TIME. and if you are the only entertainment in that show, you owe it to the audience to give them a show. if you just spin, fine. you're not performing. if you read the crowd, play to their desires, interact with them, (within reason, mind you, no lighting their cigarette with a poi) and play TO them, that's performance. everything else is glorified rehearsal. and the audience is what drives me to perform this way. this is of course my opinion, and i hope you realize that i understand where you're coming from... if all you care to do is spin for yourself, cool. when i do that i call it practice.
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
I don't agree that it's just called practise. Drilling a move over and over may be practise, but just seeing what comes out and enjoying it is called spinning. No offense dude, but the way you said it before it sounds like you only drill with non-fire then go and spin with fire.
yeah, and sometimes I actually enjoy eating? And save all the nice food for myself...
I think perhaps we have missed some of the meditative side of spinning. Where's andy when you need him?
I don't agree that it's just called practise. Drilling a move over and over may be practise, but just seeing what comes out and enjoying it is called spinning. No offense dude, but the way you said it before it sounds like you only drill with non-fire then go and spin with fire.
yeah, and sometimes I actually enjoy eating? And save all the nice food for myself...
I think perhaps we have missed some of the meditative side of spinning. Where's andy when you need him?
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
don't pretend to know me. you don't. you're addressing something and arguing the difference by way of semantics. when i practice, i practice lit. when i practice, i enjoy it. you call it spinning, i call it practice. when i say "spinning," i refer to people who have ZERO stage presence. they just stand there, manipulate the prop, and generally are forgotten in five minutes. so we have a different definition of what the words mean. quit proselytizing. you see it your way, i see it mine. neither of us is gonna change the way the other uses these words. and now can we get back on the bloody topic?
don't pretend to know me. you don't. you're addressing something and arguing the difference by way of semantics. when i practice, i practice lit. when i practice, i enjoy it. you call it spinning, i call it practice. when i say "spinning," i refer to people who have ZERO stage presence. they just stand there, manipulate the prop, and generally are forgotten in five minutes. so we have a different definition of what the words mean. quit proselytizing. you see it your way, i see it mine. neither of us is gonna change the way the other uses these words. and now can we get back on the bloody topic?
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
Internet Hate Machine
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
Posted:
Yeah....
Still comes off as pretentious to me...
Yeah....
Still comes off as pretentious to me...
The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."
BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
charles, thank you for your input. it's nice to see that someone can stay on topic, as opposed to having a bickering match over semantics.
i see you know exactly where i am coming from, too.
charles, thank you for your input. it's nice to see that someone can stay on topic, as opposed to having a bickering match over semantics.
i see you know exactly where i am coming from, too.
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
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