Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Open Spinning
Login/Join to Participateenthusiast
384 posts
Location: West LA
384 posts
Location: West LA
Posted:
Most of the moves we know are kept in the same plane (exception for example atoms) and we transition from one plane more or less smoothly to the other. But why?
Open Spinning: Controlled Spinning where both Poi go through different planes.
! In order to understand Open Spinning it is important to break free from the concept of a figure8 !
One Poi: Find out how you can transition (with a figure?) in one beat from vertical plane to horizontal clockwise and horizontal anticlockwise (and back of course, hint: there are many different ways). Get REALLY comfortable with these. Practice with both hands. Then apply it to basic moves e.g. from a corkscrew to forward/backward butterfly and back again (every change in one "beat"). Get REALLY comfortable with these again. Play with the "almost endless" variations. Dont force it ! - try to feel the flow behind Open Spinning. A little bit of a mindtwister in the beginning . . .
I have seen some players already do some "open moves" but most of the time not as a concept but as a single one beat transition. But it is so much more! Open spinning is not transitioning, rather moves in 3D.
You can aply it to one Poi only, both at the same time, single plane change, double plane change(in one beat) . . endless . . .
I dont wanna give specific examples, play with it yourself and make up your own moves....
Like always: These moves have to be done clean or otherwise it will give you the "drunken master" impression. Start with only one, work on the basics. Only when practiced a lot one can discover their beauty. Remember: Everybodys first isolation is not the most beautiful thing too
andy
PS: This way I discovered that there are diferent versions of spinning trinity. Find out yourself
Most of the moves we know are kept in the same plane (exception for example atoms) and we transition from one plane more or less smoothly to the other. But why?
Open Spinning: Controlled Spinning where both Poi go through different planes.
! In order to understand Open Spinning it is important to break free from the concept of a figure8 !
One Poi: Find out how you can transition (with a figure?) in one beat from vertical plane to horizontal clockwise and horizontal anticlockwise (and back of course, hint: there are many different ways). Get REALLY comfortable with these. Practice with both hands. Then apply it to basic moves e.g. from a corkscrew to forward/backward butterfly and back again (every change in one "beat"). Get REALLY comfortable with these again. Play with the "almost endless" variations. Dont force it ! - try to feel the flow behind Open Spinning. A little bit of a mindtwister in the beginning . . .
I have seen some players already do some "open moves" but most of the time not as a concept but as a single one beat transition. But it is so much more! Open spinning is not transitioning, rather moves in 3D.
You can aply it to one Poi only, both at the same time, single plane change, double plane change(in one beat) . . endless . . .
I dont wanna give specific examples, play with it yourself and make up your own moves....
Like always: These moves have to be done clean or otherwise it will give you the "drunken master" impression. Start with only one, work on the basics. Only when practiced a lot one can discover their beauty. Remember: Everybodys first isolation is not the most beautiful thing too
andyPS: This way I discovered that there are diferent versions of spinning trinity. Find out yourself
To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
yo,
I was gonna start a topic like this, to do with 3d spinning.
gonna do a little list of plane structures.
2 plane: what we all know and love.
3 plane: trinity
4 plane: atomic
5 plane: ?
6 plane: i call it hex, you can either take a hexagonic plane structure or you can atomise trinity so that it looks like a star of david from above, this variation is more visually exciting i think.
multi plane: a call this strike plane, go on forget about them, just dont hit yourself!
I been watching newbies closly cos they do some amazing things, and ive come to the conclusion that 2 plane spinning is actually forced, and poi naturally want to have a more 3d shape. I think 3d spinning is the secret to loops and the like.
what poibox is onnabout is plane breaking, which has been discusssed alot before now. A good example is jo derry's buterfly to corkscew move, which looks sweet.
in conclusion open spinning is a great thing, and definatly the next step once you are comfotable in two planes, it adds severl degrees of complexity to everything. However it takes real diciplin and controle to learn anything with more than 2 planes, so get that down first.
I think a few more examples would be in order, especially working out how the forms fit together.
T
yo,
I was gonna start a topic like this, to do with 3d spinning.
gonna do a little list of plane structures.
2 plane: what we all know and love.
3 plane: trinity
4 plane: atomic
5 plane: ?
6 plane: i call it hex, you can either take a hexagonic plane structure or you can atomise trinity so that it looks like a star of david from above, this variation is more visually exciting i think.
multi plane: a call this strike plane, go on forget about them, just dont hit yourself!
I been watching newbies closly cos they do some amazing things, and ive come to the conclusion that 2 plane spinning is actually forced, and poi naturally want to have a more 3d shape. I think 3d spinning is the secret to loops and the like.
what poibox is onnabout is plane breaking, which has been discusssed alot before now. A good example is jo derry's buterfly to corkscew move, which looks sweet.
in conclusion open spinning is a great thing, and definatly the next step once you are comfotable in two planes, it adds severl degrees of complexity to everything. However it takes real diciplin and controle to learn anything with more than 2 planes, so get that down first.
I think a few more examples would be in order, especially working out how the forms fit together.
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
your right on the money there nix.. I got into a bit of openspinning from playing with tangles and such... but unfrotunately, as usual, don't have the control to push it as far as I'd like yet..
your right on the money there nix.. I got into a bit of openspinning from playing with tangles and such... but unfrotunately, as usual, don't have the control to push it as far as I'd like yet..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
SILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Posted:
hmm, just had a thought. it went like this...
i was thinking surely atomic is two planes at 90 degrees to each other (each poi is allways in the same plane???), normall being two planes at 180 to each other(effectivly just one plane????).
and then i though since you only got two poi, anything with more than two planes is gonna be a bit different, cos each poi is gonna have to change planes if you want more than two... i assume this is what trinity is about. but i dunno...
im a bit confused about all this.. but what i reckon is there is two types of 'open spinning' a type with two planes, that are at a fixed angle to each other, and you have one poi in each plane, eg atomics? and stuff with any ammount of planes, but each poi changes plane.. this happens in normall spinning anyway.. and is what andy is on about, i think.
hmm?? that could all be nonsense.
EDITED_BY: oli (1099738322)
hmm, just had a thought. it went like this...
i was thinking surely atomic is two planes at 90 degrees to each other (each poi is allways in the same plane???), normall being two planes at 180 to each other(effectivly just one plane????).
and then i though since you only got two poi, anything with more than two planes is gonna be a bit different, cos each poi is gonna have to change planes if you want more than two... i assume this is what trinity is about. but i dunno...
im a bit confused about all this.. but what i reckon is there is two types of 'open spinning' a type with two planes, that are at a fixed angle to each other, and you have one poi in each plane, eg atomics? and stuff with any ammount of planes, but each poi changes plane.. this happens in normall spinning anyway.. and is what andy is on about, i think.
hmm?? that could all be nonsense.
EDITED_BY: oli (1099738322)
Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
had a bit more of a play with this..
andy YOU ARE THE MAN
LOL
I havent as good as I'd like to fluidly transfer them the way I want, but I have been playing with different timings.. between ending up in butterfly some places, same direction others, I've tried to play with timings in a few ways.. 1: the basic just spend more time on an axis(plane) then the other.. 3/4 cricle, rather than say 1/2 or whole.. 2: the typicaly changing of timings in the circle.. split time and normal time make for fun transitions, but I have to say qurater time makes the most beautiful patterns...
had a bit more of a play with this..
andy YOU ARE THE MAN
LOL
I havent as good as I'd like to fluidly transfer them the way I want, but I have been playing with different timings.. between ending up in butterfly some places, same direction others, I've tried to play with timings in a few ways.. 1: the basic just spend more time on an axis(plane) then the other.. 3/4 cricle, rather than say 1/2 or whole.. 2: the typicaly changing of timings in the circle.. split time and normal time make for fun transitions, but I have to say qurater time makes the most beautiful patterns...
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
enthusiast
384 posts
Location: West LA
384 posts
Location: West LA
Posted:
Nx: Important thought you mentioned it in the vids section - "boxes vs. atomics". The difference if the planes intersect or just "touch" at the ends. Applies to 2,3 and more planes too... endless...
Oli: think I understand everything you say - no nonsense, but that doesnt say anything when I say it
Rev: You are already playing with timing changes in plane changes?!? Respekt! I am aware of their existance but this gonna take some time until i feel comfortable enough with the normal plane changes. Keep us updated! (Timing changes with normal spinning(2 planes) are complex enough already imo)
Riddle me this: What is the difference between an atomic weave and an atomic butterfly weave)
need some rest . . . good night everyone
Nx: Important thought you mentioned it in the vids section - "boxes vs. atomics". The difference if the planes intersect or just "touch" at the ends. Applies to 2,3 and more planes too... endless...
Oli: think I understand everything you say - no nonsense, but that doesnt say anything when I say it
Rev: You are already playing with timing changes in plane changes?!? Respekt! I am aware of their existance but this gonna take some time until i feel comfortable enough with the normal plane changes. Keep us updated! (Timing changes with normal spinning(2 planes) are complex enough already imo)
Riddle me this: What is the difference between an atomic weave and an atomic butterfly weave
)need some rest . . . good night everyone
To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
poibox..
the thing is.. I've been kinda playing with this kinda stuff.. it started with two things.. colemans disccsion of using an 's' to change the direction of the poi.. and the axis turn that i did with tangles.. mainly the latter.. because the latter got me thinking of moving with the poi like a gyrascope...
now don't give me too much respect.. I'm not fully on the level yet.. glowsticks are tooo light to really control this stuff enough to do it in.. but my chains tend to do a bit better... none of it compares to my socks.. I'm going to make a new set for christmas... but anyway.. the socks work best because if you use thick socks it tends to to have mroe ar resistance and slows things alot,... the slow pace helps you leanr to swing things.. and you can always later tie a knot on the poihead end of the socks to speed them up.. but the socks help work this stuff BIGTIME..
I dont know enough about atomics to answer your question there.. but I do know that 1 vert poi + 1 horizontal poi = badass spin session..
poibox..
the thing is.. I've been kinda playing with this kinda stuff.. it started with two things.. colemans disccsion of using an 's' to change the direction of the poi.. and the axis turn that i did with tangles.. mainly the latter.. because the latter got me thinking of moving with the poi like a gyrascope...
now don't give me too much respect.. I'm not fully on the level yet.. glowsticks are tooo light to really control this stuff enough to do it in.. but my chains tend to do a bit better... none of it compares to my socks.. I'm going to make a new set for christmas... but anyway.. the socks work best because if you use thick socks it tends to to have mroe ar resistance and slows things alot,... the slow pace helps you leanr to swing things.. and you can always later tie a knot on the poihead end of the socks to speed them up.. but the socks help work this stuff BIGTIME..
I dont know enough about atomics to answer your question there.. but I do know that 1 vert poi + 1 horizontal poi = badass spin session..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
SILVER Member
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posted:
the meanest plane break i know is just to learn to flick your poi off to the side when they're above your head. it's the same principle as being able to bring your arms to your side during a weave to change into a butterfly. when you get good at it on the side, it's seemless -- same above/behind the head. I've found a mention or two of doing this BTH before, but always disguised as 'the 10 o'clock plane break' or some such. really, you can MORE smoothly transition a 5 beat weave into a b-fly above the head because your body's not in the way to throw off the illusion of seamlessness.
instant 5beat weave to BTH butterfly and back, forward and reverse (drop trailing hand first). it's a plane break, so don't expect it to be 90 degree clean, though.
i admit it.. i can't spin on plane to save my life.
edit -- >>A good example is jo derry's buterfly to corkscew move, which looks sweet
OMG! The man can do this in front of him consistently? vid link anyone?
-- dut
EDITED_BY: Dut (1100659815)
the meanest plane break i know is just to learn to flick your poi off to the side when they're above your head. it's the same principle as being able to bring your arms to your side during a weave to change into a butterfly. when you get good at it on the side, it's seemless -- same above/behind the head. I've found a mention or two of doing this BTH before, but always disguised as 'the 10 o'clock plane break' or some such. really, you can MORE smoothly transition a 5 beat weave into a b-fly above the head because your body's not in the way to throw off the illusion of seamlessness.
instant 5beat weave to BTH butterfly and back, forward and reverse (drop trailing hand first). it's a plane break, so don't expect it to be 90 degree clean, though.
i admit it.. i can't spin on plane to save my life.
edit -- >>A good example is jo derry's buterfly to corkscew move, which looks sweet
OMG! The man can do this in front of him consistently? vid link anyone?
-- dut
EDITED_BY: Dut (1100659815)
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
There isn't any lol. Atomics are weird
Written by: PoiBoxII
Riddle me this: What is the difference between an atomic weave and an atomic butterfly weave
need some rest . . . good night everyone
There isn't any lol. Atomics are weird
"Moo," said the happy cow.
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
Cool, so atomic planes cross at the center and box planes touch at their perimeter. I dig that.
Does that means you can transition from box weave to butterfly box weave through an atomic weave?
I do a lot lot of 'open' spinning. I spent ages working on tidy 90 degree plane changes, then worked a load of box stuff ~ still don't use the top and bottom of the box tho.
I find by getting all perfectionist on the 90 degrees, i can then forget it all and spin anywhere.
Never really been in to trinity, 5ity or 6ity For me its all about sin and cos, 0 and 90. Once you can control that precisely you can make any other angle.
anywho, i'll read this thread properly later and comment on it.
m
Cool, so atomic planes cross at the center and box planes touch at their perimeter. I dig that.
Does that means you can transition from box weave to butterfly box weave through an atomic weave?
I do a lot lot of 'open' spinning. I spent ages working on tidy 90 degree plane changes, then worked a load of box stuff ~ still don't use the top and bottom of the box tho.
I find by getting all perfectionist on the 90 degrees, i can then forget it all and spin anywhere.
Never really been in to trinity, 5ity or 6ity
For me its all about sin and cos, 0 and 90. Once you can control that precisely you can make any other angle.anywho, i'll read this thread properly later and comment on it.
m
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
GOLD Member
stranger
16 posts
Location: Oakland, CA, USA
stranger
16 posts
Location: Oakland, CA, USA
Posted:
Whoa. Digging deep in the HOP archives to research...
Anyway this "open spinning" sounds like what I've been obsessing with over the last few years. What I've been calling 'plane bending'
Does anyone know if this type of spinning has gone further? Any references?
Here is a recent video I posted where I use this type of spinning at the very beginning and then at 2:15 - 3:00:
EDITED_BY: IanMichaelSmith (1266202194)
Whoa. Digging deep in the HOP archives to research...
Anyway this "open spinning" sounds like what I've been obsessing with over the last few years. What I've been calling 'plane bending'
Does anyone know if this type of spinning has gone further? Any references?
Here is a recent video I posted where I use this type of spinning at the very beginning and then at 2:15 - 3:00:
EDITED_BY: IanMichaelSmith (1266202194)
SILVER Member
Poi explorer
108 posts
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Poi explorer
108 posts
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posted:
Yeah there seems to be a knowledge gap between the 'old' generation of poi spinning and the new spinners. I realized this when I was browsing through the dead spherculism forum archives.
I sometimes do the 'drunken master' style and so I use this open spinning thing with no real clear planes or timing, but I haven't encountered any videos besides yours showcasing it.
Yeah there seems to be a knowledge gap between the 'old' generation of poi spinning and the new spinners. I realized this when I was browsing through the dead spherculism forum archives.
I sometimes do the 'drunken master' style and so I use this open spinning thing with no real clear planes or timing, but I haven't encountered any videos besides yours showcasing it.
SILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Posted:
Is surprising how little poi has advanced in some areas.
Is surprising how little poi has advanced in some areas.
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland
addict
413 posts
413 posts
Posted:
Knowledge comes with time.
Knowledge comes with time.
SILVER Member
Poi explorer
108 posts
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Poi explorer
108 posts
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posted:
Well yeah, knowledge comes with time but poi knowledge shouldn't be hidden. I consider myself to be a pretty good poi spinner and even though I'm discovering and practicing new variations and concepts every day I greatly suspect most of it has been discovered and/or done by somebody else somewhere in the past yet there doesn't seem to be any online written or video record of it.
Well yeah, knowledge comes with time but poi knowledge shouldn't be hidden. I consider myself to be a pretty good poi spinner and even though I'm discovering and practicing new variations and concepts every day I greatly suspect most of it has been discovered and/or done by somebody else somewhere in the past yet there doesn't seem to be any online written or video record of it.
SILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Posted:
I doubt it is deliberately hidden.
Most people probably just do not bother. Or spend their time spinning, not online.
I doubt it is deliberately hidden.
Most people probably just do not bother. Or spend their time spinning, not online.
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland
BRONZE Member
shadow stranger
462 posts
Location: Carmi, Illinois, USA
shadow stranger
462 posts
Location: Carmi, Illinois, USA
Posted:
the other day i found out one of my buddies spins poi and he's been doin it for about 5 years and he learned some moves but his plane control isnt very good but he does things i havent seen before he just spins it where ever and its like he just practiced from starting out where you cant do anything but spin randomly around yourself and its crazy lookin
would this be considered open spinning?
EDITED_BY: Midkiff (1269540780)
the other day i found out one of my buddies spins poi and he's been doin it for about 5 years and he learned some moves but his plane control isnt very good but he does things i havent seen before he just spins it where ever and its like he just practiced from starting out where you cant do anything but spin randomly around yourself and its crazy lookin
would this be considered open spinning?EDITED_BY: Midkiff (1269540780)
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus
SILVER Member
UFO Spotting
350 posts
Location: Queensland, Australia
UFO Spotting
350 posts
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posted:
i hope so cause my plane control is up2 sh**
i hope so cause my plane control is up2 sh**
would rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a frontal lobotomy
"The dangers of life are infinate and among them is safety"(geothe)
SILVER Member
newbie
26 posts
Location: USA
newbie
26 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
(Mods, staff: There must be some way to actually group or link forums together instead of locking one and referring people to an old one. It would be neat to read old and new thoughts on one topic in one place!)
If you have a solid feel for your planes and conditioned awareness of your poi, you can go crazy and yet be completely in control.
Many mention the "ultimate goal" of poi is to truly be able to move freely without planning move by move. Ah, poi is so wonderful!
.
(Mods, staff: There must be some way to actually group or link forums together instead of locking one and referring people to an old one. It would be neat to read old and new thoughts on one topic in one place!)
If you have a solid feel for your planes and conditioned awareness of your poi, you can go crazy and yet be completely in control.
Many mention the "ultimate goal" of poi is to truly be able to move freely without planning move by move. Ah, poi is so wonderful!
.
BRONZE Member
Cooler than bubblegum!
2,501 posts
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Cooler than bubblegum!
2,501 posts
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Posted:
The only time I do good poi is when I am moving free instead of trying to be awesome.
The only time I do good poi is when I am moving free instead of trying to be awesome.
The popcorn extends life... The popcorn expands consciousness...
© 1998 - 2025 Home of Poi
All prices converted to United States dollars using XE.com