Forums > Social Discussion > fire twirling = fossil fuel pollution?
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
hi everyone,
something that has been bothering me for a while and I think probly a bunch of you ppl to is that as much as I love fire twirling, I'm torn because it represents the most extravangant usage of fossil fuels (FFs)? I mean at least if I used FFs to power my car I would be getting some utility, but Fire twirling is purely for fun...I mean I dont really do it to entertain ppl either so I cant even justify it that way.
Is it really possible to call yourself environmentally responsible when your favourite pasttime is burning FFs for fun?
Where does this leave all the firey hippys? Or is 'firetwirling hippy' an oxymoron?
Josh
hi everyone,
something that has been bothering me for a while and I think probly a bunch of you ppl to is that as much as I love fire twirling, I'm torn because it represents the most extravangant usage of fossil fuels (FFs)? I mean at least if I used FFs to power my car I would be getting some utility, but Fire twirling is purely for fun...I mean I dont really do it to entertain ppl either so I cant even justify it that way.
Is it really possible to call yourself environmentally responsible when your favourite pasttime is burning FFs for fun?
Where does this leave all the firey hippys? Or is 'firetwirling hippy' an oxymoron?
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Flaming Lesbian
181 posts
Location: Portland, Oregon
181 posts
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted:
if anything, fire dancing is one of the most responsible forms of fossil fuel usage around. before any of us lit up, we learned as much as we could about whatever fuel we use. we respect the fuel as much as the fire, we know what happens when you do x with y.
most people don't care about the fossil fuels they put in their vehicle, or what goes into the power plant so they can have electricity, or even the difference between propane and natural gas in their water heater.
most people don't care about the fuels they waste on a daily basis, so since we care about the fuel we waste, we're obviously better people than they are ;]
if anything, fire dancing is one of the most responsible forms of fossil fuel usage around. before any of us lit up, we learned as much as we could about whatever fuel we use. we respect the fuel as much as the fire, we know what happens when you do x with y.
most people don't care about the fossil fuels they put in their vehicle, or what goes into the power plant so they can have electricity, or even the difference between propane and natural gas in their water heater.
most people don't care about the fuels they waste on a daily basis, so since we care about the fuel we waste, we're obviously better people than they are ;]
Lights dancing off my skin as chains wrap round it.
Pain is in a little box and I'm so glad I found it.
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
ha! ive pointed this out to more hippi-ish spinners than myself once, but i recieved a unexpectedly hostile reaction.
*geek chemical engineer mode on*
lets see, using my old normal sized firepoi, i would probably get 4 spins out of a litre of kero. id use maybe 1.5l of kero over a good night of spinning. this kerosene will be relatively pure - thus the combustion releases CO2, CO, and carbon soot into the atmosphere [the carbon and carbon monoxide represent incomplete combustion, which in the environment of a firespinner is uncontrollable].
per liter of fuel burnt, we'd be sending up roughly the same amount of crap into the air that a litre of petrol gives off - albeit with less CO2 and more CO.
say 20 spinners turn up to a meet - use 20 litres of kero - thats not even a single tank of petrol in a car! how many cars in australia? whats our petrol usage [i could find out but i cant be bothered]
in the scheme of things - compared with the emissions from the transportation, power industries [eg coal], gas, agriculture [from cows etc], its going to make bugger all difference.
but from a personal satisfaction perpective - sure it counts the only real environmentally friendly fuel would be biodiesel - because it exists within the atmospheric carbon cycle already - rather that conventional fossil fuels with add to the global carbon cycle.
but consider the act of driving to firespinning. for me it is a round trip of 50km - in which case id use about 5-6 litres of petrol in the first place!
ive more to write on this but have run out of time! byee!
ha! ive pointed this out to more hippi-ish spinners than myself once, but i recieved a unexpectedly hostile reaction.
*geek chemical engineer mode on*
lets see, using my old normal sized firepoi, i would probably get 4 spins out of a litre of kero. id use maybe 1.5l of kero over a good night of spinning. this kerosene will be relatively pure - thus the combustion releases CO2, CO, and carbon soot into the atmosphere [the carbon and carbon monoxide represent incomplete combustion, which in the environment of a firespinner is uncontrollable].
per liter of fuel burnt, we'd be sending up roughly the same amount of crap into the air that a litre of petrol gives off - albeit with less CO2 and more CO.
say 20 spinners turn up to a meet - use 20 litres of kero - thats not even a single tank of petrol in a car! how many cars in australia? whats our petrol usage [i could find out but i cant be bothered]
in the scheme of things - compared with the emissions from the transportation, power industries [eg coal], gas, agriculture [from cows etc], its going to make bugger all difference.
but from a personal satisfaction perpective - sure it counts the only real environmentally friendly fuel would be biodiesel - because it exists within the atmospheric carbon cycle already - rather that conventional fossil fuels with add to the global carbon cycle.
but consider the act of driving to firespinning. for me it is a round trip of 50km - in which case id use about 5-6 litres of petrol in the first place!
ive more to write on this but have run out of time! byee!
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Interesting thread!
The rational option, if you're REALLY concerned with FFs, is glow. But then that uses batteries, which are charged by electricity powered by powerstations which use FFs (usually) and aren't really the same thing anyway. So you should only ever use practice poi. But then you wouldn't be able to do it in the dark...
People smoke, and people use loads of electricity in their homes and burn gas to heat their homes... most people use cars, or use a bus.
A very few people spin fire (next to the people who fall into the above groups). It's not a justification, but it's a fact that lots of us live to spin fire. I think if you can try to reduce your other emissions at all - put on a sweater rather than turn up the heating, do some poi rather than watching TV, quit smoking - you can at least balance it out a bit.
And as Thor says, I think most people who work with fire are more knowledgable and therefore are able to be more responisble with their FF consumption.
And as Dentrassi says, the emissions from Parrafin/Kerosene are relativley similar to car emissions. If I'm spinning of an evening I'll be there all evening - if not, I usually end up taxiing all my mates around because I'm the only one with a car.
Interesting thread!
The rational option, if you're REALLY concerned with FFs, is glow. But then that uses batteries, which are charged by electricity powered by powerstations which use FFs (usually) and aren't really the same thing anyway. So you should only ever use practice poi. But then you wouldn't be able to do it in the dark...
People smoke, and people use loads of electricity in their homes and burn gas to heat their homes... most people use cars, or use a bus.
A very few people spin fire (next to the people who fall into the above groups). It's not a justification, but it's a fact that lots of us live to spin fire. I think if you can try to reduce your other emissions at all - put on a sweater rather than turn up the heating, do some poi rather than watching TV, quit smoking - you can at least balance it out a bit.
And as Thor says, I think most people who work with fire are more knowledgable and therefore are able to be more responisble with their FF consumption.
And as Dentrassi says, the emissions from Parrafin/Kerosene are relativley similar to car emissions. If I'm spinning of an evening I'll be there all evening - if not, I usually end up taxiing all my mates around because I'm the only one with a car.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
most of the 'hippies' i know have flown on an aeroplane to go travelling.
second to heavy industry, air travel is one of the largest polluters going - bigger than cars even, and loads of the 'environmentally concerned' people i know use one of those too (or worse a big dirty van).
ff consumption on the level of a being a firespinner is negligable imho.
using the argument that 'driving a car at least gets you somewhere' is not applicable.
you *want* to get somewhere in a certain amount of time so you *choose* to use a ff burning vehicle - that's still your choice as there are alternatives.
you choose to spin fire which necessitates burning ff's - this is no more or less selfish to the environment than riding in a car is as far as i'm concerned.
stop using cars and planes, dramatically reduce your electricity and natural gas consumption, recycle all your waste, then talk to me about stopping firespinning.
most of the 'hippies' i know have flown on an aeroplane to go travelling.
second to heavy industry, air travel is one of the largest polluters going - bigger than cars even, and loads of the 'environmentally concerned' people i know use one of those too (or worse a big dirty van).
ff consumption on the level of a being a firespinner is negligable imho.
using the argument that 'driving a car at least gets you somewhere' is not applicable.
you *want* to get somewhere in a certain amount of time so you *choose* to use a ff burning vehicle - that's still your choice as there are alternatives.
you choose to spin fire which necessitates burning ff's - this is no more or less selfish to the environment than riding in a car is as far as i'm concerned.
stop using cars and planes, dramatically reduce your electricity and natural gas consumption, recycle all your waste, then talk to me about stopping firespinning.
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
sleeping with angels
508 posts
Location: anaheim CA usa
sleeping with angels
508 posts
Location: anaheim CA usa
Posted:
i try to concerve fuel there fore i burn less fuel so less polution
i try to concerve fuel there fore i burn less fuel so less polution
SLEEP WITH ANGELS muckieha
activist for HoPper liberation.
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
Posted:
An interesting thread indeed. I can see where you are coming from on this one although from a personal point of view i can say that the amount of fossil fuels i use in spinning is quite possibly much less than the amount i probably use up electricity-wise talking on HoP everyday!
I have no facts but am sure that no matter how much you spin with fire, the amount of fossil fuel actually burnt and subsequent environmental effects no where near matches the amount burnt through other daily activites.
But I mgiht have a bit more a think about this one because 'tis very interesting.
Can anyone confirm whether or not paraffin is the most refined version of oil, or least? I always under the impression that despite being a fossil fuel it was environmentally better than some other fuels
An interesting thread indeed. I can see where you are coming from on this one although from a personal point of view i can say that the amount of fossil fuels i use in spinning is quite possibly much less than the amount i probably use up electricity-wise talking on HoP everyday!
I have no facts but am sure that no matter how much you spin with fire, the amount of fossil fuel actually burnt and subsequent environmental effects no where near matches the amount burnt through other daily activites.
But I mgiht have a bit more a think about this one because 'tis very interesting.
Can anyone confirm whether or not paraffin is the most refined version of oil, or least? I always under the impression that despite being a fossil fuel it was environmentally better than some other fuels
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.
God's illgitament son
1,489 posts
Location: state of confusion
1,489 posts
Location: state of confusion
Posted:
what he said
Written by: Dentrassi
*geek chemical engineer mode on*
lets see, using my old normal sized firepoi, i would probably get 4 spins out of a litre of kero. id use maybe 1.5l of kero over a good night of spinning. this kerosene will be relatively pure - thus the combustion releases CO2, CO, and carbon soot into the atmosphere [the carbon and carbon monoxide represent incomplete combustion, which in the environment of a firespinner is uncontrollable].
per liter of fuel burnt, we'd be sending up roughly the same amount of crap into the air that a litre of petrol gives off - albeit with less CO2 and more CO.
say 20 spinners turn up to a meet - use 20 litres of kero - thats not even a single tank of petrol in a car! how many cars in australia? whats our petrol usage [i could find out but i cant be bothered]
but consider the act of driving to firespinning. for me it is a round trip of 50km - in which case id use about 5-6 litres of petrol in the first place!
what he said
You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too
SILVER Member
slack rating - 9.5
2,216 posts
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Kingdom
slack rating - 9.5
2,216 posts
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
i've been considering this a while.
in terms of damadge to the environment through fire spinning, i think that the most direct effect come not from burning the fuel but from spillages and excess fuel leaking/spraying onto the surrounding area and then entering the local micro-ecosystem, especially cnsidering that many of us like to spin in areas of natural beauty. i'm no scientist though so i don't know exactly how damadging this could be...
i've been considering this a while.
in terms of damadge to the environment through fire spinning, i think that the most direct effect come not from burning the fuel but from spillages and excess fuel leaking/spraying onto the surrounding area and then entering the local micro-ecosystem, especially cnsidering that many of us like to spin in areas of natural beauty. i'm no scientist though so i don't know exactly how damadging this could be... It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett
BRONZE Member
Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
6,140 posts
Location: Over There, United Kingdom
Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
6,140 posts
Location: Over There, United Kingdom
Posted:
To be perfectly honest, i never even thought of it!
But after reading all the points above i'm not too worried, i don't drive, i only use public transport, so i'm probably saving more FF then i use spinning fire (i dont tend to spin much fire anyway)
To be perfectly honest, i never even thought of it!
But after reading all the points above i'm not too worried, i don't drive, i only use public transport, so i'm probably saving more FF then i use spinning fire (i dont tend to spin much fire anyway)
Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Hmm...has anyone tried using everclear (95% ethyl alcohol [grain source]) for fire?
Hmm...has anyone tried using everclear (95% ethyl alcohol [grain source]) for fire?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
Posted:
Ask yourself what would happen if we didn't burn it? Someone else would.
Contrary to popular opinion the oil industry is largely driven by plastics; petrol and the ilk are the volatile stuff they can't use with the fractionation colomn being set to crack only as much as is needed to meet demand. If everyone drove alcohol cars or whatever, the only real impact on the environment would come from the energy saved in the cracking process because the companies dispose of the volatiles by burning them. (admittedly it'd be a cleaner burn, but they're still producing the CO2)
At present an oil reserve is shut down at 40% depletion. There's no danger of us running out of oil at anytime soon either.
We'd do a lot better by worrying about all the plastic we use, cutting back there is what's going to reduce production at source most effectively.
Ask yourself what would happen if we didn't burn it? Someone else would.
Contrary to popular opinion the oil industry is largely driven by plastics; petrol and the ilk are the volatile stuff they can't use with the fractionation colomn being set to crack only as much as is needed to meet demand. If everyone drove alcohol cars or whatever, the only real impact on the environment would come from the energy saved in the cracking process because the companies dispose of the volatiles by burning them. (admittedly it'd be a cleaner burn, but they're still producing the CO2)
At present an oil reserve is shut down at 40% depletion. There's no danger of us running out of oil at anytime soon either.
We'd do a lot better by worrying about all the plastic we use, cutting back there is what's going to reduce production at source most effectively.
There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
Hey all,
Id like to clarify that I wasnt suggesting that doing fire is more polluting than driving a car, just that there is a valid argument for driving a car for eg (utility), and no valid argument for doing fire (fire is purely art or love or something). Im not saying that cutting out fire twirling would make you into an environmentally friendly human, I think we all agree that a few litres of kero here or there is only a drop in the ocean compared to all the other forms of FF using technology.
Cole - your argument about people choosing to use cars being the same as ppl choosing to do fire only applies if they live in an urban area with good public transport, and even then I think its tenuous. After all if you are going to go down that path of argument, ppl could just choose to live in a cave eating mites, any other choice eg going out at all is wasting FFs).
Lightning,
yeah I've seen alcohol used, and it looks nice, although not much light comes off. It looks more like glow...but with the sexiness of flame. Probly wouldnt work in windy conditions.
Josh
Hey all,
Id like to clarify that I wasnt suggesting that doing fire is more polluting than driving a car, just that there is a valid argument for driving a car for eg (utility), and no valid argument for doing fire (fire is purely art or love or something). Im not saying that cutting out fire twirling would make you into an environmentally friendly human, I think we all agree that a few litres of kero here or there is only a drop in the ocean compared to all the other forms of FF using technology.
Cole - your argument about people choosing to use cars being the same as ppl choosing to do fire only applies if they live in an urban area with good public transport, and even then I think its tenuous. After all if you are going to go down that path of argument, ppl could just choose to live in a cave eating mites, any other choice eg going out at all is wasting FFs).
Lightning,
yeah I've seen alcohol used, and it looks nice, although not much light comes off. It looks more like glow...but with the sexiness of flame. Probly wouldnt work in windy conditions.
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I’ve thought about this one, but it generally ends up in the too hard basket.
I don’t think you can justify fire twirling by saying “look at all those people driving cars, they are just wasting fossil fuel”. Though, in the scheme of things, fire twirling probably only represents a minuscule percentage of total fuel use.
As far as motor vehicles go, if I had the chance I would raise the price of fuel, especially in the US, where I hear it is extremely cheep. Cheep fuel only seems to encourage people to drive monster fuel guzzling vehicles. So, I suppose trying to be more efficient by using spin-off buckets etc. will reduce wastage and help people keep a clear conscience.
And, I’m not sure that burning fuel on Kevlar is a more efficient process than burning fuel in a car engine. I would expect more emissions from the incomplete combustion of fire poi; but I would love to be corrected on that.
So what are the answers?
I suppose we have to look at the alternative. Everclear and canola oil is one, but are their any others?
Not very helpful, I’m afraid.
I’ve thought about this one, but it generally ends up in the too hard basket.
I don’t think you can justify fire twirling by saying “look at all those people driving cars, they are just wasting fossil fuel”. Though, in the scheme of things, fire twirling probably only represents a minuscule percentage of total fuel use.
As far as motor vehicles go, if I had the chance I would raise the price of fuel, especially in the US, where I hear it is extremely cheep. Cheep fuel only seems to encourage people to drive monster fuel guzzling vehicles. So, I suppose trying to be more efficient by using spin-off buckets etc. will reduce wastage and help people keep a clear conscience.
And, I’m not sure that burning fuel on Kevlar is a more efficient process than burning fuel in a car engine. I would expect more emissions from the incomplete combustion of fire poi; but I would love to be corrected on that.
So what are the answers?
I suppose we have to look at the alternative. Everclear and canola oil is one, but are their any others?
Not very helpful, I’m afraid.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
I think on this one we may just have to admit that we aren't doing anything great for the environment.
But is that enough to make anyone stop?
I think on this one we may just have to admit that we aren't doing anything great for the environment.
But is that enough to make anyone stop?
Getting to the other side 
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
okay, but air travel was my main point josh.
most people i know that use aeroplanes do so for purely recreational reasons - how many times have you flown and out of those times, how many times have you actually *needed* to use an aeroplane?
probably about as many times as you have *needed* to spin fire...?
and addressing your argument about cars:
the attitude that you have to use a car or public transport to get around is a terrible one - bicycles pollute far less than cars, buses or trains do for example...
yes, there are times when you 'need' to use a car or train (lots of luggage/long distances to travel) but most times it is a choice of convenience (more comfortable, easier, faster so you don't have to leave as early and so on) rather than a necessity.
Written by: Josh
Cole - your argument about people choosing to use cars being the same as ppl choosing to do fire only applies if they live in an urban area with good public transport, and even then I think its tenuous. After all if you are going to go down that path of argument, ppl could just choose to live in a cave eating mites, any other choice eg going out at all is wasting FFs).
okay, but air travel was my main point josh.
most people i know that use aeroplanes do so for purely recreational reasons - how many times have you flown and out of those times, how many times have you actually *needed* to use an aeroplane?
probably about as many times as you have *needed* to spin fire...?
and addressing your argument about cars:
the attitude that you have to use a car or public transport to get around is a terrible one - bicycles pollute far less than cars, buses or trains do for example...
yes, there are times when you 'need' to use a car or train (lots of luggage/long distances to travel) but most times it is a choice of convenience (more comfortable, easier, faster so you don't have to leave as early and so on) rather than a necessity.
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
I wish I had the type of public transport system you seem to Cole!
I live in Bangor, a reasonably sized town about 25mins drive away from Belfast - where I work.
If I was to take public transport to work it would take close to two hours by walking, bus, train, followed by another longer walk to my office. This is more than simply inconvenient - it would be impossible.
Then I would be stuck, as I finish work at 11pm and the last bus home is at 10.30pm, last train at 10.55pm (there is no way I can ask to be let out early, the deadline is at 11pm).
If the government laid on a fully operational and comprehensive (also clean and on-time) bus or train service I would have no problems using it. And I have no problems paying for it through, I dunno, a cut in the defence budget... or even raised taxes.
I wish I had the type of public transport system you seem to Cole!
I live in Bangor, a reasonably sized town about 25mins drive away from Belfast - where I work.
If I was to take public transport to work it would take close to two hours by walking, bus, train, followed by another longer walk to my office. This is more than simply inconvenient - it would be impossible.
Then I would be stuck, as I finish work at 11pm and the last bus home is at 10.30pm, last train at 10.55pm (there is no way I can ask to be let out early, the deadline is at 11pm).
If the government laid on a fully operational and comprehensive (also clean and on-time) bus or train service I would have no problems using it. And I have no problems paying for it through, I dunno, a cut in the defence budget... or even raised taxes.
Getting to the other side
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
i wasn't saying 'never use a car'.
what i was saying was, there are often a lot of compromises made when using cars.
i was suggesting using alternatives like for example, a bicycle whenever possible.
for you (who at 25 mins drive from work could possibly live as far as 25 miles away) that is unfeasible and your unsocialble hours prevent your use of public transport so you have to use a car.
fair enough
public transport is obviously only better for the environment when there are lots of people using it anyway - my last train back home from london is at midnight so its not so different here really.
if you did work normal hours though you might consider public transport.
two hours is not such a massive journey time - my journey to work takes me approximately an hour and a half door-to-door and this *includes* a ten minute car journey to the train station!
with a bike ride replacing the car journey, my commute would be extended to about 2 hours but i would freely admit that the part of my trip i spend in a car is out of convenience, not necessity (plus, to make myself feel better i could use the excuse that i am a passenger in a car that is making this journey whether i get in it or not - mum's car pool style).
again though, my main point was air travel.
environmentally concerned people go travelling all the time, getting there by plane and thus dumping unsepakable amounts of pollution into the atmosphere - and all this just on the whim of wanting to visit a foreign land for the sole purpose of self-fulfilment.
spinning fire is purely for your own benefit too but causes a *lot* less damage to the environment.
thus i say, give up the luxury of air travel way before you think about giving up firespinning on the grounds of being a polluter
Written by: coleman
yes, there are times when you 'need' to use a car ... (...long distances to travel)...
i wasn't saying 'never use a car'.
what i was saying was, there are often a lot of compromises made when using cars.
i was suggesting using alternatives like for example, a bicycle whenever possible.
for you (who at 25 mins drive from work could possibly live as far as 25 miles away) that is unfeasible and your unsocialble hours prevent your use of public transport so you have to use a car.
fair enough
public transport is obviously only better for the environment when there are lots of people using it anyway - my last train back home from london is at midnight so its not so different here really.
if you did work normal hours though you might consider public transport.
two hours is not such a massive journey time - my journey to work takes me approximately an hour and a half door-to-door and this *includes* a ten minute car journey to the train station!
with a bike ride replacing the car journey, my commute would be extended to about 2 hours but i would freely admit that the part of my trip i spend in a car is out of convenience, not necessity (plus, to make myself feel better i could use the excuse that i am a passenger in a car that is making this journey whether i get in it or not - mum's car pool style).
again though, my main point was air travel.
environmentally concerned people go travelling all the time, getting there by plane and thus dumping unsepakable amounts of pollution into the atmosphere - and all this just on the whim of wanting to visit a foreign land for the sole purpose of self-fulfilment.
spinning fire is purely for your own benefit too but causes a *lot* less damage to the environment.
thus i say, give up the luxury of air travel way before you think about giving up firespinning on the grounds of being a polluter
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
I cycle 100 miles week to get to and from work.
This is getting harder in the winter though.
Not only is it green, I have a tight ass too.
I cycle 100 miles week to get to and from work.
This is getting harder in the winter though.
Not only is it green, I have a tight ass too.
Love is the law.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Cole - what you said about needing to go on aeroplanes compared to needing to spin fire... good point!
Cole - what you said about needing to go on aeroplanes compared to needing to spin fire... good point!
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
yep I think your point about air travel is an excellent one Cole, the only thing I could say to counter that is there is no other way to travel to most other countries from Aus
I think its possible to travel by ferry through indonesia and malaysia and singapore to Thailand, and then to travel overland to europe for example, but it would take a very long time, cost a really large amount of money, and in some places be quite dangerous. Its something I want to do before I die too My parents used to know some ppl that rode from Oz to London on a motorbike through afghanistan and Iraq...a bit of a dangerous trip these days.
I guess the other thing is that a lot of ppl that go travelling get a much broader sense of the wholeness of the human race than those who stay at home living and dying where they were born. This is obviously not the same point tho, but I think more good comes from international travel than just self-gratification, but this is maybe just me trying to justify my own self-gratification from travel?
Id cycle from where I live, but the only person I know who used to ride the road every day got runover and nearly crushed to death....I hate that, but its a problem when the road you live on is prepared to be a race track once a year. This cant be the case for most ppl tho.
When I lived in the city I used to ride to work everyday and I loved it. None of these get negate the strength of your argument in general tho cole.
Josh
yep I think your point about air travel is an excellent one Cole, the only thing I could say to counter that is there is no other way to travel to most other countries from Aus
I think its possible to travel by ferry through indonesia and malaysia and singapore to Thailand, and then to travel overland to europe for example, but it would take a very long time, cost a really large amount of money, and in some places be quite dangerous. Its something I want to do before I die too
My parents used to know some ppl that rode from Oz to London on a motorbike through afghanistan and Iraq...a bit of a dangerous trip these days. I guess the other thing is that a lot of ppl that go travelling get a much broader sense of the wholeness of the human race than those who stay at home living and dying where they were born. This is obviously not the same point tho, but I think more good comes from international travel than just self-gratification, but this is maybe just me trying to justify my own self-gratification from travel?
Id cycle from where I live, but the only person I know who used to ride the road every day got runover and nearly crushed to death....I hate that, but its a problem when the road you live on is prepared to be a race track once a year. This cant be the case for most ppl tho.
When I lived in the city I used to ride to work everyday and I loved it. None of these get negate the strength of your argument in general tho cole.
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
which opens up an entirely new area of contact staff
anyway... i suppose the only way for travelling hippies to avoid air travel is to hire a canoe - which is just silly. noones perfects - but its up to the individual what concessions to make in regards to general practicality.
Written by: ado-p
I cycle 100 miles week to get to and from work.
This is getting harder in the winter though.
Not only is it green, I have a tight ass too.
which opens up an entirely new area of contact staff
anyway... i suppose the only way for travelling hippies to avoid air travel is to hire a canoe - which is just silly. noones perfects - but its up to the individual what concessions to make in regards to general practicality.
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
BRONZE Member
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
Posted:
hmmmm i had not really thought about it until now, i know its not a good thing and i do alot for the enviroment but i still feel guilty for thinking "Well i do do alot for the enviroment so this one little bit will not make much difference" but that is how the world has got fudged up in the first place, with each person not thinking they would make a difference but combinded wrecked it for the rest of us now i have thoughts of little girls and star fish going through my head (Its a fable) oh bugger if only i had not read this thread
hmmmm i had not really thought about it until now, i know its not a good thing and i do alot for the enviroment but i still feel guilty for thinking "Well i do do alot for the enviroment so this one little bit will not make much difference" but that is how the world has got fudged up in the first place, with each person not thinking they would make a difference but combinded wrecked it for the rest of us
now i have thoughts of little girls and star fish going through my head (Its a fable) oh bugger if only i had not read this thread Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows
not a stranger
558 posts
Location: wales
558 posts
Location: wales
Posted:
It don't matter.
People have always burned stuff and they aways will.
If you were not fire spinning you would be doing something else.
Sitting by the fire
Watching TV
On the computer
Inside with the lights and heating on
etc.
All these thngs burn fossil fuel.
So, one way or another it all works out even. Or so it seems to me.
Anyway, there is nothing as nice, or as primordial, as fire. Wether you are spinning it or sitting by it, fire is good.
It don't matter.
People have always burned stuff and they aways will.
If you were not fire spinning you would be doing something else.
Sitting by the fire
Watching TV
On the computer
Inside with the lights and heating on
etc.
All these thngs burn fossil fuel.
So, one way or another it all works out even. Or so it seems to me.
Anyway, there is nothing as nice, or as primordial, as fire. Wether you are spinning it or sitting by it, fire is good.
Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road
BRONZE Member
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
Posted:
i still feel bad though
i still feel bad though
Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows
BRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
Just curious, I'm not sure how effective it would be but has anyone tried to spin with biodiesel? It's got a pretty high flashpoint and is considered 'non-flammible' but the NFPA but it's clean...
Just curious, I'm not sure how effective it would be but has anyone tried to spin with biodiesel? It's got a pretty high flashpoint and is considered 'non-flammible' but the NFPA but it's clean...
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
not a stranger
558 posts
Location: wales
558 posts
Location: wales
Posted:
Well don't.
Spinning fire isthe best thing ever invented.
Enjoy it.
And if you want to make up for any assumed damage you think you might be doing to the environment, turn off the fridge, or unplug the video off stand by while you spin.
Something like that, you know what I mean.
Then it will all outweigh itself and nothing will be different or worse than if you had never spun fire.
Well don't.
Spinning fire isthe best thing ever invented.
Enjoy it.
And if you want to make up for any assumed damage you think you might be doing to the environment, turn off the fridge, or unplug the video off stand by while you spin.
Something like that, you know what I mean.
Then it will all outweigh itself and nothing will be different or worse than if you had never spun fire.
Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road
BRONZE Member
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
Posted:
hmmmm now that i could do
hmmmm now that i could do
Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows
not a stranger
558 posts
Location: wales
558 posts
Location: wales
Posted:
Yeah!
Spin your chip pan oil.
You'll smell of chips!(like half the cars round here did a while ago)
Yummy,
Yeah!
Spin your chip pan oil.
You'll smell of chips!(like half the cars round here did a while ago)
Yummy,
Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road
PLATINUM Member
*Tickles pretty strangers*
610 posts
Location: Australia
*Tickles pretty strangers*
610 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
This is an issue that I have often thought about, I have often wondered just HOW damaging it is to our environment, so I am glad that we have a thread to debate it. As with all other aspects of spinning I guess I just have to say respect it, the fuel and our Earth, be aware of what your doing, and hopefully some day we can find a more enviro-friendly fuel...
I don't think the arguement
"well if we didn't use it someone else would" is very good though... if no one used it, there would be no market.
..anyways, yes, twirling is nasty for our world,
Sorry World
This is an issue that I have often thought about, I have often wondered just HOW damaging it is to our environment, so I am glad that we have a thread to debate it. As with all other aspects of spinning I guess I just have to say respect it, the fuel and our Earth, be aware of what your doing, and hopefully some day we can find a more enviro-friendly fuel...
I don't think the arguement
"well if we didn't use it someone else would" is very good though... if no one used it, there would be no market.
..anyways, yes, twirling is nasty for our world,
Sorry World
What if I should fall right through the centre of the Earth and come out the other side where people walk upside-down?!
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
If you really think that you're affecting the global environment or atmosphere by spinning fire I think you're flattering yourself a bit too much.
How much fossil fuel was used to create this post? Or to read it? Or to respond to it?
I think focusing on the minute uses of fossil fuel disrespects the larger uses and is counter productive.
There are REAL ways to significantly cut down on fossil fuel use and 'not fire spinning' is not one of them.
Sometimes when we think we are being responsible, we are not because we aren't thinking of the amount of waste generated in making certain products.
I'm gonna do my part by shutting my computer off and going to bed.
Then again, what good is all of this shooting going on in Iraq if I can't at least get some cheap oil out of it.
If you really think that you're affecting the global environment or atmosphere by spinning fire I think you're flattering yourself a bit too much.
How much fossil fuel was used to create this post? Or to read it? Or to respond to it?
I think focusing on the minute uses of fossil fuel disrespects the larger uses and is counter productive.
There are REAL ways to significantly cut down on fossil fuel use and 'not fire spinning' is not one of them.
Sometimes when we think we are being responsible, we are not because we aren't thinking of the amount of waste generated in making certain products.
I'm gonna do my part by shutting my computer off and going to bed.
Then again, what good is all of this shooting going on in Iraq if I can't at least get some cheap oil out of it.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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