Forums > Social Discussion > The Debates
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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
So I thought Kerry did much better than Bush. Neither did spectacularly, but Bush came out of it looking like a blundering idiot with all his "ums" and "uhs" and his blind idealism.
Kerry spoke fluently, and although he contradicted himself a few times, I thought he did very well. Before last night, I didn't want Kerry as my president, although I was going to vote for him because I liked Bush far less.
But now I like the idea of having Kerry as a President.
So I thought Kerry did much better than Bush. Neither did spectacularly, but Bush came out of it looking like a blundering idiot with all his "ums" and "uhs" and his blind idealism.
Kerry spoke fluently, and although he contradicted himself a few times, I thought he did very well. Before last night, I didn't want Kerry as my president, although I was going to vote for him because I liked Bush far less.
But now I like the idea of having Kerry as a President.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
We don't get to see the whole thing in the UK - but I would love to have seen it...
How do these things work? Is it just an open debate between the two? Or are there certain predetermined points they have to discuss?
We don't get to see the whole thing in the UK - but I would love to have seen it...
How do these things work? Is it just an open debate between the two? Or are there certain predetermined points they have to discuss?
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
God's illgitament son
1,489 posts
Location: state of confusion
1,489 posts
Location: state of confusion
Posted:
I missed the debates, but I'm reading all the articales on it today (I love msnbc.com) the over all view is what you're saying Lightning..........Bush bombed.......
I missed the debates, but I'm reading all the articales on it today (I love msnbc.com) the over all view is what you're saying Lightning..........Bush bombed.......
You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too
SILVER Member
....
344 posts
Location: Midlands - nr cov, United Kingdom
....
344 posts
Location: Midlands - nr cov, United Kingdom
Posted:
According to the paper there are set rules on what can and cannot be said, or asked or discussed, and the format it has to go in.
The opinion of the paper was that these rules render "debate" effectively useless...
It was in the paper; it MUST be true
Lynne
Written by: Durbs
We don't get to see the whole thing in the UK - but I would love to have seen it...
How do these things work? Is it just an open debate between the two? Or are there certain predetermined points they have to discuss?
According to the paper there are set rules on what can and cannot be said, or asked or discussed, and the format it has to go in.
The opinion of the paper was that these rules render "debate" effectively useless...
It was in the paper; it MUST be true
Lynne "But what would you do with a brain if you had one?"
Dorothy Gale
SILVER Member
old hand
899 posts
Location: New York City, USA
old hand
899 posts
Location: New York City, USA
Posted:
Bush came off like an ass and at times seemed to get really upset at things Kerry said.
It was interesting.
Raph
Written by: Lightning?
So I thought Kerry did much better than Bush. Neither did spectacularly, but Bush came out of it looking like a blundering idiot with all his "ums" and "uhs" and his blind idealism.
Kerry spoke fluently, and although he contradicted himself a few times, I thought he did very well. Before last night, I didn't want Kerry as my president, although I was going to vote for him because I liked Bush far less.
But now I like the idea of having Kerry as a President.
Bush came off like an ass and at times seemed to get really upset at things Kerry said.
It was interesting.
Raph
Hot Schtuff
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
Posted:
Wish somebody else was better for job as president. I don't want either of them to win.
Wish somebody else was better for job as president. I don't want either of them to win.
RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.
"if i jump in the fire, will you?"
633 posts
Location: USA, wishing I was in SA
633 posts
Location: USA, wishing I was in SA
Posted:
i thought that Kerry did well and that Bush did Not so well !
i to havent seen too much of kerry until last night and i thought that he had some good ideas and that his campaign was a little more focused on what we can do here at home ! where as bush was all about find that O-dude ! and kicking doors down and bla-bla-bla . i did like that fact that both of them feel strong about the some of the same topics ! its a little more comforting to know that either way they are still fighting for the individual!
well thats my 2cents , i think kerry might have this one!
i thought that Kerry did well and that Bush did Not so well !
i to havent seen too much of kerry until last night and i thought that he had some good ideas and that his campaign was a little more focused on what we can do here at home ! where as bush was all about find that O-dude ! and kicking doors down and bla-bla-bla . i did like that fact that both of them feel strong about the some of the same topics ! its a little more comforting to know that either way they are still fighting for the individual!
well thats my 2cents , i think kerry might have this one!
i like breaking the Law 
, of Gravity !
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I don't think it will have any effect on the outcome unfortunately.
My country is not so smart either.
I don't think it will have any effect on the outcome unfortunately.
My country is not so smart either.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
not only was there a fat rule book about what they were discussing, they had specific height for the lecterns and they had to be 3 metres aopart so no one would notice the height distance!
the whole thing was 'timetabled' so they had a specific length of time to speak on each subject.
i wish i had seen it, just ot see if it was as bad as i think i must have been. Hardly spontaneous debate??
Written by:
How do these things work? Is it just an open debate between the two? Or are there certain predetermined points they have to discuss?
not only was there a fat rule book about what they were discussing, they had specific height for the lecterns and they had to be 3 metres aopart so no one would notice the height distance!
the whole thing was 'timetabled' so they had a specific length of time to speak on each subject.
i wish i had seen it, just ot see if it was as bad as i think i must have been. Hardly spontaneous debate??
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
i've just discovered, you can watch it here.
click on video by the article at the top of the page, then 'watch whole video'.
i've just discovered, you can watch it here.
click on video by the article at the top of the page, then 'watch whole video'.
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
People keep talking about how much Bush is screwing things up but surely he's not running the country on his own. Will things really change much swapping one ruler for another?
The other point that's been floating around in my head is when individual Americans are questioned (at least by the British media) they seem to want Bush out but it is also believed that Bush will win the next election. Who is actually voting for him?
*goes off to ponder and build elaborate conspiracy*
People keep talking about how much Bush is screwing things up but surely he's not running the country on his own. Will things really change much swapping one ruler for another?
The other point that's been floating around in my head is when individual Americans are questioned (at least by the British media) they seem to want Bush out but it is also believed that Bush will win the next election. Who is actually voting for him?
*goes off to ponder and build elaborate conspiracy*
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
hopefully, because when a different party the whole lot changes doesn't it - or maybe not in britain, where new labout & the tories are fighting for the midle road!
Written by: Domino
People keep talking about how much Bush is screwing things up but surely he's not running the country on his own. Will things really change much swapping one ruler for another?
hopefully, because when a different party the whole lot changes doesn't it - or maybe not in britain, where new labout & the tories are fighting for the midle road!
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
SILVER Member
spiny norman
314 posts
Location: Cincinnati,damn it, USA
spiny norman
314 posts
Location: Cincinnati,damn it, USA
Posted:
yes this last debate was very structured, but the next one it "town meeting" format, where people in audience can ask questions, i think that will be very interesting, and it will paint a more realistic picture of what the candidates arre actualy like, i hope people ask good questions
there is also a vice - presidential debate which should be interesting, just because cheney and edwards are so different
i want to take this oppurtonity to BEG people to vote, im not old enough to vote in this election, and its killing me, so please vote, this is an important election
today, monday october 4 is the last day to register
peace/democracy/fire
yes this last debate was very structured, but the next one it "town meeting" format, where people in audience can ask questions, i think that will be very interesting, and it will paint a more realistic picture of what the candidates arre actualy like, i hope people ask good questions
there is also a vice - presidential debate which should be interesting, just because cheney and edwards are so different
i want to take this oppurtonity to BEG people to vote, im not old enough to vote in this election, and its killing me, so please vote, this is an important election
today, monday october 4 is the last day to register
peace/democracy/fire
if you think that our kiss was all in the lips, come on you got it all wrong man, and if you think that our dance was all in the hips then, oh well, do the twist -The White Stripes
BRONZE Member
Llamas are larger than frogs.
319 posts
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Llamas are larger than frogs.
319 posts
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posted:
WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TEACH BUSH HOW YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PRONOUNCE "IRAQ"?!?!?! I know it seems like a kind of trivial thing, but it really shows a lot of disrespect for the country if he can't even pronounce the name correctly; and since we've been listening to him say it for 4 years, hardly anyone says it right now.
WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TEACH BUSH HOW YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PRONOUNCE "IRAQ"?!?!?! I know it seems like a kind of trivial thing, but it really shows a lot of disrespect for the country if he can't even pronounce the name correctly; and since we've been listening to him say it for 4 years, hardly anyone says it right now.
"I know a good deal more than a boiled carrot."
"Fire!" "Where?" "Nowhere, I was just illustrating the misuse of free speech."
"if i jump in the fire, will you?"
633 posts
Location: USA, wishing I was in SA
633 posts
Location: USA, wishing I was in SA
Posted:
so how do you say it then ??? im pretty sure that i say it correctly ... "i-rr-aa-k" , its e , not I , right !?!?
*phonics, they suck!"
so how do you say it then ??? im pretty sure that i say it correctly ... "i-rr-aa-k" , its e , not I , right !?!?
*phonics, they suck!"
i like breaking the Law , of Gravity !
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
i think he says it more 'irrak', while i think its more of an 'eye-raak' sound. well, thats how i say it.
i think he says it more 'irrak', while i think its more of an 'eye-raak' sound. well, thats how i say it.
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
The correct pronunciation (at least as close as you can get in the English language) is "ee-rock." In reality, it's a slightly gutteral "r". (I have a lot of Arab friends and coworkers).
The correct pronunciation (at least as close as you can get in the English language) is "ee-rock." In reality, it's a slightly gutteral "r". (I have a lot of Arab friends and coworkers).
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
but to the australia ear - americans say 'rock' like 'rark.'
so for aussies i think it should be 'ee-rark' which for us is similar to an american sayingyanks say 'ee-rock'
but to the australia ear - americans say 'rock' like 'rark.'
so for aussies i think it should be 'ee-rark' which for us is similar to an american sayingyanks say 'ee-rock'
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Australian accents are sexy.
Australian accents are sexy.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
you find steve irwin's voice attractive?
you find steve irwin's voice attractive?
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
Hot Schtuff
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
Posted:
It depends on where you live I believe. I pronounce it I-raq. Lot's of people in my area do as well. I never hear it pronounced E-raq unless watching the national news stations. It has to do with your accent, and where you live geographically as to how you pronounce certain words. At least that's what I've noticed.
It depends on where you live I believe. I pronounce it I-raq. Lot's of people in my area do as well. I never hear it pronounced E-raq unless watching the national news stations. It has to do with your accent, and where you live geographically as to how you pronounce certain words. At least that's what I've noticed.
RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
The fact is, though, both parties (both in the UK and in the US) offer so little that is different from the other, I mean in real terms - they'll alter figures by a fraction of a percentage, but the equation stays the same - that there's really no alternative. And because it's been that way for so long, if a viable alternative arises, people are too conditioned into numbness, too removed by hype and spin and other such annoying words, and too afraid of change to implement it. Which is a shame.
Like the man says in Waking Life, just before he sets himself on fire - "Do you want the puppet on the left or the puppet on the right?"
I think we should elect President Palmer from 24. He'd sort everything out.
Woo! 100 posts!
Written by: Tao StarWritten by: Domino
People keep talking about how much Bush is screwing things up but surely he's not running the country on his own. Will things really change much swapping one ruler for another?
hopefully, because when a different party the whole lot changes doesn't it - or maybe not in britain, where new labout & the tories are fighting for the midle road!
The fact is, though, both parties (both in the UK and in the US) offer so little that is different from the other, I mean in real terms - they'll alter figures by a fraction of a percentage, but the equation stays the same - that there's really no alternative. And because it's been that way for so long, if a viable alternative arises, people are too conditioned into numbness, too removed by hype and spin and other such annoying words, and too afraid of change to implement it. Which is a shame.
Like the man says in Waking Life, just before he sets himself on fire - "Do you want the puppet on the left or the puppet on the right?"
I think we should elect President Palmer from 24. He'd sort everything out.
Woo! 100 posts!
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
Hot Schtuff
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
Posted:
Rant warning:
Ok you've been warned
I wish there was a way that I could still watch my normal shows on tv without the interuption of ANY political debate! I'm not voting this year and so don't see why I should watch it. Besides they show hi-lights on the local and national news anyways. Why don't one newschannel decide to broadcast it and let the rest have their normal shows on.
God I wish there was such a thing as a spliter box for TV's! My roomie is so interested in this election, and she's from India!
Why!?
Ok rant over
Rant warning:
Ok you've been warned
I wish there was a way that I could still watch my normal shows on tv without the interuption of ANY political debate! I'm not voting this year and so don't see why I should watch it. Besides they show hi-lights on the local and national news anyways. Why don't one newschannel decide to broadcast it and let the rest have their normal shows on.
God I wish there was such a thing as a spliter box for TV's! My roomie is so interested in this election, and she's from India!
Why!?
Ok rant over
RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
idle curiosity - why arent you voting?
idle curiosity - why arent you voting?
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Well, I thought the V.P. debates were much more evenly matched. I actually have respect for Cheney. I hate his guts and I think Edwards was right to call him out on the gay marriage hypocracy thing, but I respect him.
Can't say the same of Bush.
Well, I thought the V.P. debates were much more evenly matched. I actually have respect for Cheney. I hate his guts and I think Edwards was right to call him out on the gay marriage hypocracy thing, but I respect him.
Can't say the same of Bush.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
although you can see the difference much more when it comes to huge decisions like do we start a war or not.
ok so there might be piddling differences in tax and spending, but it's the huge important decisions that matter more anyway right?
Written by: nearly_all_goneWritten by: Tao StarWritten by: Domino
People keep talking about how much Bush is screwing things up but surely he's not running the country on his own. Will things really change much swapping one ruler for another?
hopefully, because when a different party the whole lot changes doesn't it - or maybe not in britain, where new labout & the tories are fighting for the midle road!
The fact is, though, both parties (both in the UK and in the US) offer so little that is different from the other, I mean in real terms - they'll alter figures by a fraction of a percentage, but the equation stays the same - that there's really no alternative.
although you can see the difference much more when it comes to huge decisions like do we start a war or not.
ok so there might be piddling differences in tax and spending, but it's the huge important decisions that matter more anyway right?
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
I meant something along the lines of "core group of people that need to be pleased, not nessarily the voters" "core group of civil servants that will remain" and "people in power make similar decisions because of the circumstances, and to become someone in power you need to act like someone in power" but couldn't really find the words.
For example, I think it's unlikely that if Kerry is elected he will pull out of Iraq.
I meant something along the lines of "core group of people that need to be pleased, not nessarily the voters" "core group of civil servants that will remain" and "people in power make similar decisions because of the circumstances, and to become someone in power you need to act like someone in power" but couldn't really find the words.
For example, I think it's unlikely that if Kerry is elected he will pull out of Iraq.
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
BRONZE Member
Llamas are larger than frogs.
319 posts
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Llamas are larger than frogs.
319 posts
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posted:
I think it was a bad idea for Cheney to make himself seem so smart during the debates after Bush looked like a bit of an idiot in his...it's certainly not helping Bush with disproving the theory that Cheney is the real one running the show!
I think it was a bad idea for Cheney to make himself seem so smart during the debates after Bush looked like a bit of an idiot in his...it's certainly not helping Bush with disproving the theory that Cheney is the real one running the show!
"I know a good deal more than a boiled carrot."
"Fire!" "Where?" "Nowhere, I was just illustrating the misuse of free speech."
"if i jump in the fire, will you?"
633 posts
Location: USA, wishing I was in SA
633 posts
Location: USA, wishing I was in SA
Posted:
"ya think " .... sorry , but that does seem a bit too obvious !
"ya think " .... sorry , but that does seem a bit too obvious !
i like breaking the Law , of Gravity !
stranger
1 post
Location: in the wake of hurricane ivan
1 post
Location: in the wake of hurricane ivan
Posted:
The most pronounced differences between the American parties are found on social issues, generally. Currently gay marriage is the social issue that may force this sort of obvious distinction, though it has yet to do so in any meanigful way. In recent history, abortion, affirmative action, and other broad social fields are where the ideologies have been played out. Even in these topic areas, the difference is mostly in rhetoric, since there has been little substantial or lasting policy accomplished in any of these fields since roe v wade in 1974.
In a more practical sense, 2 party government offers very little in the way of diversity of opinion/representation. There are a variety of ways in which the Democratic ideal can be circumvented by an crafy, enterprising corporate/political elite. These range in complexity, but all have at their core the limitation of choices, or the channeling of opinion into one of two columns. They can be pretty well understood by watching the Treehouse of Horrors where Kang and Kodos run for president.
The recent Miller beer ads that ran here in the US are another favorite metaphor for US politics. Here, the beers (Bud and Miller) are running against each other. Presumably, the public can take theri pick of one of two watered down, insubstantial beers that are identical to one another once the labling is removed
The current war seems to be the chosen battleground for this years 2 party farce, but I'm not too certain that Gore would have kept us out of Iraq. What is fairly certain, however, is that a lot more of the US's traditional allies (sorry, Poland) would be there with us. It would have been an international, multilateral debacle instead of a uniquely american one. Surely, there would have been enough egg to for all of the world's faces.
sorry for the missive.
St.
The most pronounced differences between the American parties are found on social issues, generally. Currently gay marriage is the social issue that may force this sort of obvious distinction, though it has yet to do so in any meanigful way. In recent history, abortion, affirmative action, and other broad social fields are where the ideologies have been played out. Even in these topic areas, the difference is mostly in rhetoric, since there has been little substantial or lasting policy accomplished in any of these fields since roe v wade in 1974.
In a more practical sense, 2 party government offers very little in the way of diversity of opinion/representation. There are a variety of ways in which the Democratic ideal can be circumvented by an crafy, enterprising corporate/political elite. These range in complexity, but all have at their core the limitation of choices, or the channeling of opinion into one of two columns. They can be pretty well understood by watching the Treehouse of Horrors where Kang and Kodos run for president.
The recent Miller beer ads that ran here in the US are another favorite metaphor for US politics. Here, the beers (Bud and Miller) are running against each other. Presumably, the public can take theri pick of one of two watered down, insubstantial beers that are identical to one another once the labling is removed
The current war seems to be the chosen battleground for this years 2 party farce, but I'm not too certain that Gore would have kept us out of Iraq. What is fairly certain, however, is that a lot more of the US's traditional allies (sorry, Poland) would be there with us. It would have been an international, multilateral debacle instead of a uniquely american one. Surely, there would have been enough egg to for all of the world's faces.
sorry for the missive.
St.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Thats what I meant. Wish I could have put it so clearly!
See what I mean?
Written by: tinylight
In a more practical sense, 2 party government offers very little in the way of diversity of opinion/representation. There are a variety of ways in which the Democratic ideal can be circumvented by an crafy, enterprising corporate/political elite. These range in complexity, but all have at their core the limitation of choices, or the channeling of opinion into one of two columns.
Thats what I meant. Wish I could have put it so clearly!
Written by: tinylight
They can be pretty well understood by watching the Treehouse of Horrors where Kang and Kodos run for president.
See what I mean?
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
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