Forums > Social Discussion > Too nice for our own good? Video critique...
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
I was talking to a fellow CJ'er after I put up my work-in-progress up for critique.
We were saying it's very odd that on most sites, regardless of what it's about, when people submit their material (videos, photos, pictures, poems - whatever) people will happily critique away, being quite harsh in places.
Here, I can't recall many times when people give constructive criticism on videos...
It's usually all very postive, which is important, but in terms of helping people progress, wouldn't it be good if these for often followed by "but" ?
On the other sites I've seen (www.reflective.net springs to mind) no-one's ever been offended by constructive criticism, more often than not they come back a month later with a hugely improved video. As long as it's all done properly i.e. not "You're [censored], there wasn't a single hyperloop in there and your planes are rubbish" - I think people on here are big enough to take the odd "it's a bit scrappy at 1m 13s" or whatever.
Or does poi not merit criticism as it's beautiful to watch no matter how shoddily?
(NB. I don't have any video in mind at all here - it was just a general observation)
Ryan pulled apart my CJ video on cj.org - but that's exactly why I put it up. I have huge respect for Ryan as a CJ'er so I know, he knows what he's talking about (it's also something we've both been working on) - so perhaps this taints my view somewhat, if someone else had written what he had, I'd be less receptive, but I don't think so
Thoughts?
I was talking to a fellow CJ'er after I put up my work-in-progress up for critique.
We were saying it's very odd that on most sites, regardless of what it's about, when people submit their material (videos, photos, pictures, poems - whatever) people will happily critique away, being quite harsh in places.
Here, I can't recall many times when people give constructive criticism on videos...
It's usually all very postive, which is important, but in terms of helping people progress, wouldn't it be good if these for often followed by "but" ?
On the other sites I've seen (www.reflective.net springs to mind) no-one's ever been offended by constructive criticism, more often than not they come back a month later with a hugely improved video. As long as it's all done properly i.e. not "You're [censored], there wasn't a single hyperloop in there and your planes are rubbish" - I think people on here are big enough to take the odd "it's a bit scrappy at 1m 13s" or whatever.
Or does poi not merit criticism as it's beautiful to watch no matter how shoddily?
(NB. I don't have any video in mind at all here - it was just a general observation)
Ryan pulled apart my CJ video on cj.org - but that's exactly why I put it up. I have huge respect for Ryan as a CJ'er so I know, he knows what he's talking about (it's also something we've both been working on) - so perhaps this taints my view somewhat, if someone else had written what he had, I'd be less receptive, but I don't think so
Thoughts?
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
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Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Posted:
i think its very much down to the type of vid, and the level of those watching it...for example!
the nipp vid i just posted, that was all talked about on the night, from slower and better planes from smallboy to me while i was spinning, co si was doing horrid poi, that im hoping to fix my style while im in oz, to frodo and his convo with small and bams while spinning about his style!
to general chat and constructive critisism of spinners on tape you dont hear cos i cut teh audio...
now if you are putting up a tech vid, like your contact one, and it was me (a relativly inexperienced cj'er) was to watch, to me its blooming loverly, and the only thing i would have said seemed a lil off, was your mexican wave stuff, cos your not breakingyour wrist fully maybe, but you already posted about that so i didnt bother....
how ever if you are putting up a tech vid, and say ok, now teh 10 top ever cj'er i would like you to critic this vid, they will prob tell you more of what wrong mate, and wer eto have your fingers to get better moves and so on...
ita all a lil subjective if you ask me!
you have to remeber no one may want to be nasty, cos they like the vid as a stand alone vid you have done, or if they do, maybe its not just down to them saying at 1min 30 you should clean it up, maybe someone will say that on teh night you are recording it, possibly?
i dont knwo...anyone else?
i think its very much down to the type of vid, and the level of those watching it...for example!
the nipp vid i just posted, that was all talked about on the night, from slower and better planes from smallboy to me while i was spinning, co si was doing horrid poi, that im hoping to fix my style while im in oz, to frodo and his convo with small and bams while spinning about his style!
to general chat and constructive critisism of spinners on tape you dont hear cos i cut teh audio...
now if you are putting up a tech vid, like your contact one, and it was me (a relativly inexperienced cj'er) was to watch, to me its blooming loverly, and the only thing i would have said seemed a lil off, was your mexican wave stuff, cos your not breakingyour wrist fully maybe, but you already posted about that so i didnt bother....
how ever if you are putting up a tech vid, and say ok, now teh 10 top ever cj'er i would like you to critic this vid, they will prob tell you more of what wrong mate, and wer eto have your fingers to get better moves and so on...
ita all a lil subjective if you ask me!
you have to remeber no one may want to be nasty, cos they like the vid as a stand alone vid you have done, or if they do, maybe its not just down to them saying at 1min 30 you should clean it up, maybe someone will say that on teh night you are recording it, possibly?
i dont knwo...anyone else?
Step (el-nombrie)
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
But not everyone can be there on the night - some people just practice on their own in their gardens, and videos present a great opportunity to give helpful advice.
No video on here is perfect (well OK, except Black and Blue
)
But it doesn't just have to techy video's that get critique - just general freespinning vids might have a few "glitches" which the spinner might not even realise they're doing - it's hard to spot your own faults.
And sometimes the best advice doesn't come from the experts, it comes from the newbies (or even people who don't do poi/CJ etc) as they don't know what to look for, but can tell when things don't work...
But not everyone can be there on the night - some people just practice on their own in their gardens, and videos present a great opportunity to give helpful advice.
No video on here is perfect (well OK, except Black and Blue
)But it doesn't just have to techy video's that get critique - just general freespinning vids might have a few "glitches" which the spinner might not even realise they're doing - it's hard to spot your own faults.
And sometimes the best advice doesn't come from the experts, it comes from the newbies (or even people who don't do poi/CJ etc) as they don't know what to look for, but can tell when things don't work...
Burner of Toast
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The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
HOP approach is far better and far more caring.
And the end result is that people get better and people feel better.
Oops realised that theres a massive critique of your last video sitting in my out tray that I forgot to send.
HOP approach is far better and far more caring.
And the end result is that people get better and people feel better.
Oops realised that theres a massive critique of your last video sitting in my out tray that I forgot to send.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Posted:
glass of my last vid, teh nipp one, or of durbs contact ball one?
glass of my last vid, teh nipp one, or of durbs contact ball one?
Step (el-nombrie)
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
But critique doesn't have to be upsetting...
No one here thinks they can't improve - we all teach one another tricks, why not teach/advise on how to clean up bits and pieces?
This is just out of curiosity by the way - I'm not angling for a change in the way HoP works, nor for everyone to start ripping my vids apart (I do that myself anyway )
And I was waiting for your critque too
Perhaps this is the way forward - if you want critique - ask for it...
But critique doesn't have to be upsetting...
No one here thinks they can't improve - we all teach one another tricks, why not teach/advise on how to clean up bits and pieces?
This is just out of curiosity by the way - I'm not angling for a change in the way HoP works, nor for everyone to start ripping my vids apart (I do that myself anyway
)And I was waiting for your critque too
Perhaps this is the way forward - if you want critique - ask for it...
Burner of Toast
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The Ministry of Manipulation
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The Ministry of Manipulation
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Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Mech: of durbs "nearly" videl.
>"Perhaps this is the way forward - if you want critique - ask for it... "
Nope, you still shouldn't get it, still shouldn't give it
Paul: Your asking for people to demonstrate advanced training techniques, which very few poeple have. Its a really REALLY difficult thing to do. Even most university tutors suck at this. Trust me, you don't want it.
HOP is a community and not just a message board, just go read juggling DB for a while and feel how unfriendly hard and rude it is compared to HOP. JuggDB, and most other forums don't have to be like that.
It focuses always on the positive.
It nurtures, the HOP kids are happy, they grow, they get better, they play better they make better videos.
They learn to be positive with others.... and the cycle gets better
Principle 1 - Dont criticise, condem or complain
(at all - Ever)
or in other words:
Dogs learn better if you give then biscuits and hugs,
then if you hit them and yell at them
An in other news: Breasts are great I love them
Mech: of durbs "nearly" videl.
>"Perhaps this is the way forward - if you want critique - ask for it... "
Nope, you still shouldn't get it, still shouldn't give it
Paul: Your asking for people to demonstrate advanced training techniques, which very few poeple have. Its a really REALLY difficult thing to do. Even most university tutors suck at this. Trust me, you don't want it.
HOP is a community and not just a message board, just go read juggling DB for a while and feel how unfriendly hard and rude it is compared to HOP. JuggDB, and most other forums don't have to be like that.
It focuses always on the positive.
It nurtures, the HOP kids are happy, they grow, they get better, they play better they make better videos.
They learn to be positive with others.... and the cycle gets better
Principle 1 - Dont criticise, condem or complain
(at all - Ever)
or in other words:
Dogs learn better if you give then biscuits and hugs,
then if you hit them and yell at them
An in other news: Breasts are great
I love them GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
This is unbelievable, every where I go I am hearing about breasts, I may never leave this forum again.
As as rank outsider here i have have often thought about posting a vid me me and my staff.
So here it is you guys, I would post it, even though I know im not that good, the one thing that keeps me coming back here is the all round feeling of love and positiveness that the HOP people share.
Half of the videos i watch here make me want to put my staff down forever and just be a cheering part of the audience because I think 'I will never, ever do that' But then I read a post from one of those elite twirlers encouraging another learner to be patient or try it this way and thier being nice about it.
In fact most of the actual criticism i've rad here has been about vid quality and editing.
I guess my point is, I would not be scared to put up a vid here coz I know i'd feel better and keep spinning when the hop people soak it up.
Its nice to hear constructive criticism but at the same time, one cannot really learn fom the instructions of others but only from practise and insight. I believe its better to guide people gently and and let them find their own way and thus their own won style.
a
ps. i dont know guys outside of this board, but i reckon you all rock.
This is unbelievable, every where I go I am hearing about breasts, I may never leave this forum again.
As as rank outsider here i have have often thought about posting a vid me me and my staff.
So here it is you guys, I would post it, even though I know im not that good, the one thing that keeps me coming back here is the all round feeling of love and positiveness that the HOP people share.
Half of the videos i watch here make me want to put my staff down forever and just be a cheering part of the audience because I think 'I will never, ever do that' But then I read a post from one of those elite twirlers encouraging another learner to be patient or try it this way and thier being nice about it.
In fact most of the actual criticism i've rad here has been about vid quality and editing.
I guess my point is, I would not be scared to put up a vid here coz I know i'd feel better and keep spinning when the hop people soak it up.
Its nice to hear constructive criticism but at the same time, one cannot really learn fom the instructions of others but only from practise and insight. I believe its better to guide people gently and and let them find their own way and thus their own won style.
a
ps. i dont know guys outside of this board, but i reckon you all rock.
Love is the law.
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
True, I don't want to see HoP become a place where no-one posts videos and newbies get shouted at for being new...
But otherwise don't the "Hey that was great" comments become a bit neutral? As nobody ever says "Hey, that sucked"
True, you should never critisize - but you can always offer help
True, I don't want to see HoP become a place where no-one posts videos and newbies get shouted at for being new...
But otherwise don't the "Hey that was great" comments become a bit neutral? As nobody ever says "Hey, that sucked"
True, you should never critisize - but you can always offer help
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
The above post was typed with my tounge in my cheek by the way
No-one on here sucks
The above post was typed with my tounge in my cheek by the way
No-one on here sucks
Burner of Toast
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Carpal \'Tunnel
3,964 posts
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,964 posts
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Interesting subject Durbs - my few pence:
SPINNING:
Personally the way HOP works as Glass said is supportive, caring and makes everyone feel good about what they are doing - which at the end of the day, the chances are that if youve put footage up of yourself or others - its some of the best you got at that time.
I would like to think no matter how good someone is - we all know that we can get better whatever level were at, therefore critisism is not needed.
VIDEO EDITING:
This personally i think a bit of critisism / sugestions wouldnt hurt, mainly because HOP is a spinning educational / social site and video editing comes down to the individual knowledge of the editor.
As you rightly said Durbs when putting a vid together you dont notice your own mistakes - especially when you end up watching the vid coutless times through its construction.
The people that veiw the vid are in a prime position to suggest possible ways of improving shots/takes/transistions, however again this would come down to individual knoweldege and personal opinion.
So i guess what im saying is do we really need critisim or is it something that performers of any art want to obtain as they are ambitious about improving themselves?
Tiz a tough one but i think essentially id have to agree with Mr Glass.
Few pence spent...........
Interesting subject Durbs - my few pence:
SPINNING:
Personally the way HOP works as Glass said is supportive, caring and makes everyone feel good about what they are doing - which at the end of the day, the chances are that if youve put footage up of yourself or others - its some of the best you got at that time.
I would like to think no matter how good someone is - we all know that we can get better whatever level were at, therefore critisism is not needed.
VIDEO EDITING:
This personally i think a bit of critisism / sugestions wouldnt hurt, mainly because HOP is a spinning educational / social site and video editing comes down to the individual knowledge of the editor.
As you rightly said Durbs when putting a vid together you dont notice your own mistakes - especially when you end up watching the vid coutless times through its construction.
The people that veiw the vid are in a prime position to suggest possible ways of improving shots/takes/transistions, however again this would come down to individual knoweldege and personal opinion.
So i guess what im saying is do we really need critisim or is it something that performers of any art want to obtain as they are ambitious about improving themselves?
Tiz a tough one but i think essentially id have to agree with Mr Glass.
Few pence spent...........
"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
aaaaaaaaand.....
As HoP is such a lovely, fluffy place - surely no-one's going to get upset if someone says "You do that behind the back move too many times, chop it up a little"
When I say "critcism" I don't mean big things like a list of bits to improve - just help nudges...
aaaaaaaaand.....
As HoP is such a lovely, fluffy place - surely no-one's going to get upset if someone says "You do that behind the back move too many times, chop it up a little"
When I say "critcism" I don't mean big things like a list of bits to improve - just help nudges...
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Right, I'm off to sulk
Right, I'm off to sulk
Burner of Toast
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Carpal \'Tunnel
3,964 posts
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,964 posts
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., United Kingdom
Posted:
***puts arm round sulking Durbs and hand him a doobey***
How can i improve my Falmouth Vid Durbs
***puts arm round sulking Durbs and hand him a doobey
***How can i improve my Falmouth Vid Durbs
"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
*snif* Fank ooo Strugz *snif*
*snif* Fank ooo Strugz *snif*
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
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Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Posted:
owww i kneo how to impove your falmouth vid - TAKE ME OUT OF IT!
owww i kneo how to impove your falmouth vid - TAKE ME OUT OF IT!
Step (el-nombrie)
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
That applies to most vids though
That applies to most vids though
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
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Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Posted:
shut it you, and get back to your crying corner!
shut it you, and get back to your crying corner!
Step (el-nombrie)
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
Yeah, HoP is a pretty positive place and everyone's quite suportive. If people got shot down they might get a bit depressed or bitter and never post a video again - which would be a loss. Also people often don't want or need criticism - a 'Cool!' serves them well and they move on.
Personally sometimes people have asked me for comments and criticism - and I can be pretty harsh, but I know Glass will always be more critical!
Yeah, HoP is a pretty positive place and everyone's quite suportive. If people got shot down they might get a bit depressed or bitter and never post a video again - which would be a loss. Also people often don't want or need criticism - a 'Cool!' serves them well and they move on.
Personally sometimes people have asked me for comments and criticism - and I can be pretty harsh, but I know Glass will always be more critical!
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
But I'm not talking about shooting people down, I'm talking about "That's really nice, lovely flow, x-move in particular looks really tight - but you might want to watch your timining in chasing the sun" or something
But I'm not talking about shooting people down, I'm talking about "That's really nice, lovely flow, x-move in particular looks really tight - but you might want to watch your timining in chasing the sun" or something
Burner of Toast
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addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
Posted:
I dont mind, u can say what ever you want about my videos....except "that was utterly jedi".
And u know, some people actually leave the glitches in the on purpose. Nothing wrong with being human. Its to easy to edit untill its flawless. But i dont see the point, to me its about sharing, not "ooohhh look how good i am."
The other thing i believe is, a video is not a true record of your actuall ability. I mean ITS ONLY A VIDEO! Its not like you can see it from all dimentions like u could if you were there. And if 1 newbe watch's my videos and learns a move or even better finds inspriation, then its all good and thats all i can hope for.
I dont mind, u can say what ever you want about my videos....except "that was utterly jedi".
And u know, some people actually leave the glitches in the on purpose. Nothing wrong with being human. Its to easy to edit untill its flawless. But i dont see the point, to me its about sharing, not "ooohhh look how good i am."
The other thing i believe is, a video is not a true record of your actuall ability. I mean ITS ONLY A VIDEO! Its not like you can see it from all dimentions like u could if you were there. And if 1 newbe watch's my videos and learns a move or even better finds inspriation, then its all good and thats all i can hope for.
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
well i think its up to the individual who is in the vid / made the vid to ask for critisism if they want it, otherwise a bit of respect is enough
Durbs, I cant crit your contact cuz I'm not a contact expert. If you want critique on your doubles - well I'm your man
Josh
well i think its up to the individual who is in the vid / made the vid to ask for critisism if they want it, otherwise a bit of respect is enough
Durbs, I cant crit your contact cuz I'm not a contact expert. If you want critique on your doubles - well I'm your man
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
I see what you mean Durbs. Most people (probably myself included) can't give advice so well, and many people can't take advice well (myself included!) and will pick on the comments as an attack and get defensive.
So people probably see it as best to just be overly positive.
As a wider comment I do notice that in some countries (such as the US) people are a lot more likely to be supportive of people trying things and having a go. Whereas in the UK we like to take the piss. Have a look at American Idol compared to Pop Idol (UK). In the US a diabolical singer gets told something vaguely positive & is dismissed nicely. In the UK they're told to get a job in McDonalds!
I see what you mean Durbs. Most people (probably myself included) can't give advice so well, and many people can't take advice well (myself included!) and will pick on the comments as an attack and get defensive.
So people probably see it as best to just be overly positive.
As a wider comment I do notice that in some countries (such as the US) people are a lot more likely to be supportive of people trying things and having a go. Whereas in the UK we like to take the piss. Have a look at American Idol compared to Pop Idol (UK). In the US a diabolical singer gets told something vaguely positive & is dismissed nicely. In the UK they're told to get a job in McDonalds!
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
ha! for the australian idol, they got some bloke with a nice english accent.
its fantastic! for some reason the english accent can make a comment so much more cutting.
but to the topic.... if those wanting blunt comments /constructive critisism... surely all they have to do is ask? there were several videos on COL 4 that i had loads of advice for, from the video aspect, the showmanship aspect.. and a few other aspects which elude me at this point, but i felt uneasy posting constructive critisism that was not asked for... in part cos i never got around to getting an entry in, but also for the fact that it was HoP.
im of two minds - its great that this wonderful community on HoP has been created with such a positive mindset, and the mods do their best to remove all those weird randoms who sign up and post bewilderingly stupid comments. i know if i need a cheer, that theres always genuine souls on here that can make me laugh when i need it.
on the other hand - constructive critisism is good, as long as both parties involves understand that, and due to the massive epic sagas weve had on even nomenclature *coughcoughhyperloopscoughairwrapscough*... its apparent that anyone can get the wrong idea when communicating via text format.
i would normally come up to some final grandiose conclusion, but i really cant be bothered coming to any sort of resolution at this time of a friday evening.
and for the point. you are all welcome to dissect and abuse this post as much as you wish, just keep it constructive.
ha! for the australian idol, they got some bloke with a nice english accent.
its fantastic! for some reason the english accent can make a comment so much more cutting.
but to the topic.... if those wanting blunt comments /constructive critisism... surely all they have to do is ask? there were several videos on COL 4 that i had loads of advice for, from the video aspect, the showmanship aspect.. and a few other aspects which elude me at this point, but i felt uneasy posting constructive critisism that was not asked for... in part cos i never got around to getting an entry in, but also for the fact that it was HoP.
im of two minds - its great that this wonderful community on HoP has been created with such a positive mindset, and the mods do their best to remove all those weird randoms who sign up and post bewilderingly stupid comments. i know if i need a cheer, that theres always genuine souls on here that can make me laugh when i need it.
on the other hand - constructive critisism is good, as long as both parties involves understand that, and due to the massive epic sagas weve had on even nomenclature *coughcoughhyperloopscoughairwrapscough*... its apparent that anyone can get the wrong idea when communicating via text format.
i would normally come up to some final grandiose conclusion, but i really cant be bothered coming to any sort of resolution at this time of a friday evening.
and for the point. you are all welcome to dissect and abuse this post as much as you wish, just keep it constructive.
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
enthusiast
384 posts
Location: West LA
384 posts
Location: West LA
Posted:
Very nice topic !
"Advice"(I know it better) and "critique"(Do it this way not like you do it) are often the source of conflict.
"Suggestion" and "feedback" would be much better.
Everyone has its own preferences and points of view on spinning, and points of view differ - can you really say which point is better? Only because someone can spin 5beatbhb DOES NOT mean he knows Poi better than you (but many people think so).
Not many people are really able to say "do it this way cause this way it is better/more efficient/..." but due to my experience you can definitely say it and critizise!
About being "overly positive": I think that can be quite dangerous too. If you personally think that something looks crap - be honset, say it (of course in a nice way), even if that spinner is far more experienced, but if you are too positive people think that was good, dont improve and stick to it.
Personally i prefer to give critizising feedback in PM - my 2 cents
have a nice day
see you on the EJC
andy
Very nice topic !
"Advice"(I know it better) and "critique"(Do it this way not like you do it) are often the source of conflict.
"Suggestion" and "feedback" would be much better.
Everyone has its own preferences and points of view on spinning, and points of view differ - can you really say which point is better? Only because someone can spin 5beatbhb DOES NOT mean he knows Poi better than you (but many people think so).
Not many people are really able to say "do it this way cause this way it is better/more efficient/..." but due to my experience you can definitely say it and critizise!
About being "overly positive": I think that can be quite dangerous too. If you personally think that something looks crap - be honset, say it (of course in a nice way), even if that spinner is far more experienced, but if you are too positive people think that was good, dont improve and stick to it.
Personally i prefer to give critizising feedback in PM - my 2 cents
have a nice day
see you on the EJC
andy
To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Ooo, how I wish I was going to the EJC....
Nice points all above there (Quite glad someone agreed with me a bit, was getting a bit worried there)
I agree that "suggestion" and "feedback" are better phrases - but that's really just wording and amounts to the same thing.
One thing I would interject (what a great word...) is that you don't have to be a better spinner to offer feedback - especially in terms of showmanship - infact, it can be better coming from a newbie. Things like planes, facing the audiance, general demeanor/attitude (e.g. do they stand rock still when spinning) can be noticed by everyone - especially if they don't know what they are looking for
But I do strongly agree that text (especially for some reason internet text) is diificult to communicate in - and it would take some very good writing to keep a positive spin on things if you're offering critique/feedback. Perhaps for this reason it's best to keep it cheery - unless they ask for it
Ooo, how I wish I was going to the EJC....
Nice points all above there
(Quite glad someone agreed with me a bit, was getting a bit worried there)I agree that "suggestion" and "feedback" are better phrases - but that's really just wording and amounts to the same thing.
One thing I would interject (what a great word...) is that you don't have to be a better spinner to offer feedback - especially in terms of showmanship - infact, it can be better coming from a newbie. Things like planes, facing the audiance, general demeanor/attitude (e.g. do they stand rock still when spinning) can be noticed by everyone - especially if they don't know what they are looking for
But I do strongly agree that text (especially for some reason internet text) is diificult to communicate in - and it would take some very good writing to keep a positive spin on things if you're offering critique/feedback. Perhaps for this reason it's best to keep it cheery - unless they ask for it
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
GOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'd never really noticed but yeah you have a good point Durbs. Positive ciritsism is quite lacking here, I always just presumed it was done by pm or something.
Positive critisism is just as important as positive praise.
So long as it doesn't become agressive or offensive it's vital to make anyone better.
The first time I saw myself on vid after a couple months spinning (I think I just got my beamers) I changed my style completely; I wish someone had told me how boring my weaves were to watch no matter how perfect or how many variations I did. Now weaves are probably what I do least when I spin all because I could positively critique myself instead of my mates all going "oooh" & "aaah" and "that looks good" just for the sake of it.
Although I must say Durbs your vids always raise a smile for me, but entitling your vids with titles such as "trying" or "sloppy contact" etc kinda shows folks you've already critiqued it yourself and that you appreciate it isn't perfect, they're more likely to send good wishes to those vids as the flipside has already been taken care of by your good self.
I'd never really noticed but yeah you have a good point Durbs. Positive ciritsism is quite lacking here, I always just presumed it was done by pm or something.
Positive critisism is just as important as positive praise.
So long as it doesn't become agressive or offensive it's vital to make anyone better.
The first time I saw myself on vid after a couple months spinning (I think I just got my beamers) I changed my style completely; I wish someone had told me how boring my weaves were to watch no matter how perfect or how many variations I did. Now weaves are probably what I do least when I spin all because I could positively critique myself instead of my mates all going "oooh" & "aaah" and "that looks good" just for the sake of it.
Although I must say Durbs your vids always raise a smile for me, but entitling your vids with titles such as "trying" or "sloppy contact" etc kinda shows folks you've already critiqued it yourself and that you appreciate it isn't perfect, they're more likely to send good wishes to those vids as the flipside has already been taken care of by your good self.
Let's relight this forum 
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
Im going to go sit in the 'tell me if what im doing is crap, cos thats the only way im going to know its crap, and thus is the only way im going to make it better' corner.
course, i'd much rather someone say 'yeah, your weave is good, but you spin too fast' to someone saying 'nah, you suck, you spin way to fast, and theres no btb stuff, and what the hell was that thing you did at 1'30"?', but at the end of the day, both of those things are going to help me get better. sure, one will make me feel better about it, but they both get the job done.
and thats my 1/50th of a dollar.
Im going to go sit in the 'tell me if what im doing is crap, cos thats the only way im going to know its crap, and thus is the only way im going to make it better' corner.
course, i'd much rather someone say 'yeah, your weave is good, but you spin too fast' to someone saying 'nah, you suck, you spin way to fast, and theres no btb stuff, and what the hell was that thing you did at 1'30"?', but at the end of the day, both of those things are going to help me get better. sure, one will make me feel better about it, but they both get the job done.
and thats my 1/50th of a dollar.
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
SILVER Member
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Rampant whirler.
2,418 posts
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Posted:
Whats the opinion on everyone that posts on HoP these days? (5 years on from the OP)
I whirl on my own for the most part so I offer constructive criticism whenever I can. I mean it with the best intentions because a lot of the time I don't realise some of the errors I make and even if I do, being reminded to keep on top of them is helpful because often I get lazy.
Not long ago I was told that I should keep going in a particular motion because you can get an extra half beat of isolation on the way back. It was true! I'd started out doing the full motion but gotten lazy as I had gotten more comfortable with it, I never would have even realised had I not been told...
Another question is, for those who have seen and received criticism from me, does it come across the right way or can I seem too harsh?? Some constructive criticism on my constructive criticism perhaps?
Whats the opinion on everyone that posts on HoP these days? (5 years on from the OP)
I whirl on my own for the most part so I offer constructive criticism whenever I can. I mean it with the best intentions because a lot of the time I don't realise some of the errors I make and even if I do, being reminded to keep on top of them is helpful because often I get lazy.
Not long ago I was told that I should keep going in a particular motion because you can get an extra half beat of isolation on the way back. It was true! I'd started out doing the full motion but gotten lazy as I had gotten more comfortable with it, I never would have even realised had I not been told...
Another question is, for those who have seen and received criticism from me, does it come across the right way or can I seem too harsh?? Some constructive criticism on my constructive criticism perhaps?
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
I think that it still depends.
Some people put up videos just for show and when they get critiqued they get offended because they did not solicit it.
Others want it and don't receive it.
Others don't care.
I've seen it all.
We went through a phase where there was alot of critique and very little construction. A time where people forgot you need to have both the good and the bad highlighted in order for it to be constructive criticism. Otherwise it's just criticism and no one likes that.
But now, it seems to have evened out.
As for how you critique, I couldn't tell ya. I don't make anything other than promo videos and personal review videos of any of my/our work, and even then only got a video camera less than a year ago (I used to pay someone for promo filming). I don't think promos are fitting for on here, so, I've never posted anything for anyone to critique on.
I think that it still depends.
Some people put up videos just for show and when they get critiqued they get offended because they did not solicit it.
Others want it and don't receive it.
Others don't care.
I've seen it all.
We went through a phase where there was alot of critique and very little construction. A time where people forgot you need to have both the good and the bad highlighted in order for it to be constructive criticism. Otherwise it's just criticism and no one likes that.
But now, it seems to have evened out.
As for how you critique, I couldn't tell ya. I don't make anything other than promo videos and personal review videos of any of my/our work, and even then only got a video camera less than a year ago (I used to pay someone for promo filming). I don't think promos are fitting for on here, so, I've never posted anything for anyone to critique on.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Posted:
MNS: You seem fair from what I have seen.
I really need to get some videos up myself.
It seems to be reasonable these days, from what I have seen.
MNS: You seem fair from what I have seen.
I really need to get some videos up myself.
It seems to be reasonable these days, from what I have seen.
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland
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