Forums > Social Discussion > Operation Rainbow
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190 posts
190 posts
Posted:
Heh, I heard about the mission but not it's name. Thats just [censored] up.
Israel is getting more and more like the gestapo and SS who when the resistance had struck agaisnt them, they would find out where the resistance members lived and destroy the entire town.
You think their history would give them a bit more insight.
hell, youd think the palestinians history would give them insight to, it's not like they aren't as equally the rejected and abused of the arab world that the jews were in the world.
Heh, I heard about the mission but not it's name. Thats just [censored] up.
Israel is getting more and more like the gestapo and SS who when the resistance had struck agaisnt them, they would find out where the resistance members lived and destroy the entire town.
You think their history would give them a bit more insight.
hell, youd think the palestinians history would give them insight to, it's not like they aren't as equally the rejected and abused of the arab world that the jews were in the world.
member
190 posts
190 posts
Posted:
Oh yeah some interesting quotes I grabbed off a website.
Amnesty in October 2003 wrote:
Huwaida Arraf founder of ISM writes in the Jerusalem Post
Christian Aid wrote:
Oh yeah some interesting quotes I grabbed off a website.
Amnesty in October 2003 wrote:
Quote:
In the past three years the Israeli army has destroyed some 4,000 Palestinian homes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, as well as vast areas of cultivated land, hundreds of factories and other commercial properties, roads and public buildings... The Israeli army says it has uncovered 70 smuggling tunnels in Rafah in the past three years and in the same period it has destroyed more than 1,000 homes in the area.
Huwaida Arraf founder of ISM writes in the Jerusalem Post
Quote:
From reading the Israeli news one would think these foreigners must only find terrorists in the West Bank and Gaza. In the past three years over 2,800 Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli military [some 20% under 18], over 40,000 injured and over 3 million put under random house arrest. Are they all terrorists?
Christian Aid wrote:
Quote:
The humanitarian situation in the West Bank and Gaza continues to deteriorate. The effects of continued incursions by the Israeli army into the West Bank and Gaza make life a constant struggle. Movement for Palestinians between towns and villages is severely restricted and every aspect of daily life has been affected, including access to healthcare and education....
The Israeli government's policy of closure across the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPTs), has led to a rise in unemployment among Palestinians. Unemployment currently stands at 53 per cent. In Gaza the average person now lives on £0.85 a day, which is below the official UN poverty line.
The continued construction of Israel's barrier in the West Bank has exacerbated the already dire humanitarian situation. It is estimated that the barrier will directly impact 875,000 Palestinians, affecting their access to healthcare, education and livelihoods, with many farmers having lost access to their farmland on the other side of the barrier.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I am a Jew and a staunch Zionist.
And yet I agree with the sentiments expressed here. The actions of the Israeli Government have been comparable with those of the Nazis.
I am a Jew and a staunch Zionist.
And yet I agree with the sentiments expressed here. The actions of the Israeli Government have been comparable with those of the Nazis.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
Hold up folks, what do you honestly know about the history of the country of Israel?
Isreal wasn't stolen, it was bought and since its purchase has been attacked by the Arab nations many times. Even though the Arabian nation of Iran orignially welcomed an Isreali state, they attacked it.
Have you ever heard of the phrase, "Once bitten, twice shy."?
Yes they may be going to the extreem, but it isn't without good reason. More Israelis have been killed due to terrorisim and war than those of their neighbors of Palistine.
Should you be angry that they are taking such harsh measures or should you be remoursful of the already dead children because of arab greed and hate?
I notice the article didn't say who killed the kids, could it have been stray Palistinian gunfire, or is it too much to think about the possibility that the Israeli army might not have done it?
Yes what they are doing is borderline inhumaine crule and down right wrong, but look at what they have gone through!
Hold up folks, what do you honestly know about the history of the country of Israel?
Isreal wasn't stolen, it was bought and since its purchase has been attacked by the Arab nations many times. Even though the Arabian nation of Iran orignially welcomed an Isreali state, they attacked it.
Have you ever heard of the phrase, "Once bitten, twice shy."?
Yes they may be going to the extreem, but it isn't without good reason. More Israelis have been killed due to terrorisim and war than those of their neighbors of Palistine.
Should you be angry that they are taking such harsh measures or should you be remoursful of the already dead children because of arab greed and hate?
I notice the article didn't say who killed the kids, could it have been stray Palistinian gunfire, or is it too much to think about the possibility that the Israeli army might not have done it?
Yes what they are doing is borderline inhumaine crule and down right wrong, but look at what they have gone through!
GOLD Member
grasshopper in training
124 posts
Location: Australia
grasshopper in training
124 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Excuse any anti-american sentiment you detect in my reply but...
"US President Bush said the bloodshed was "troubling", but told a Jewish-American audience that Israel had the "right to defend itself from terror"."
... Why the F#@$ is this man allowed to run this country?
It seems to me that the threat of america (and aust and UK) retaliating against peace-breakers has kept many of them in check. This almost seems to be an invitation to reak havock... as long as you use the same excuse (ie lie) as Bush does... we are destroying the terrorists.
I am so mad at the whole situation and the polititions and so discusted and amazed and confused at the people who voted them in and CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THEM!
And even home of poi, a place i have always found to be full of sensible, open minded poeple is showing some of the same stupididy that has caused millions of deaths... an eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.
This madness can't continue for much longer can it?
hugs to you all, looper
Excuse any anti-american sentiment you detect in my reply but...
"US President Bush said the bloodshed was "troubling", but told a Jewish-American audience that Israel had the "right to defend itself from terror"."
... Why the F#@$ is this man allowed to run this country?
It seems to me that the threat of america (and aust and UK) retaliating against peace-breakers has kept many of them in check. This almost seems to be an invitation to reak havock... as long as you use the same excuse (ie lie) as Bush does... we are destroying the terrorists.
I am so mad at the whole situation and the polititions and so discusted and amazed and confused at the people who voted them in and CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THEM!
And even home of poi, a place i have always found to be full of sensible, open minded poeple is showing some of the same stupididy that has caused millions of deaths... an eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.
This madness can't continue for much longer can it?
hugs to you all, looper There is a world made of air, one of earth and one of water.
And there is one made of fire, and all of them fight for supremacy. They are fighting now, in my head.
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
my well used two cents again...
Personally, i dont think that the middle east will ever fully settle themselves down, and all get along. the wars have been waging there for hundreds, thousands of years, and chances are, they will continue to do so for that long. the racial hatred that has been bred into the children, and their children, and so on, will see to that.
my well used two cents again...
Personally, i dont think that the middle east will ever fully settle themselves down, and all get along. the wars have been waging there for hundreds, thousands of years, and chances are, they will continue to do so for that long. the racial hatred that has been bred into the children, and their children, and so on, will see to that.
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Posted:
Exactly - they should know better! Aren't we all taught to learn from mistakes and wrongdoings
Two wrongs do not make a right! And I don't care whats happened in the past, such behaviour I can never condone.
I have met lsome ovely Israeli's on my travels, devastated by events occuring in their country, many with no intention of returning, who believe their is NO EXCUSE for the horrific treatment towards Palestinians. I have also had discussions with muslims settled in London who defended Palestinian suicide bombers, saying 'how could you blame them after the way they had been treated'! I understand why people feel they have to use violence when there voices are not heard, but violence begets violence and it can never ever be condoned
Quote:
Yes what they are doing is borderline inhumaine crule and down right wrong, but look at what they have gone through!
Exactly - they should know better! Aren't we all taught to learn from mistakes and wrongdoings
Two wrongs do not make a right! And I don't care whats happened in the past, such behaviour I can never condone.I have met lsome ovely Israeli's on my travels, devastated by events occuring in their country, many with no intention of returning, who believe their is NO EXCUSE for the horrific treatment towards Palestinians. I have also had discussions with muslims settled in London who defended Palestinian suicide bombers, saying 'how could you blame them after the way they had been treated'! I understand why people feel they have to use violence when there voices are not heard, but violence begets violence and it can never ever be condoned
Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.
- W B Yeats
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
More dead. As they fire into a crowd.
Did you just make that up or do you honestly believe that? I can't remember figures but something like 10 times more Palestinians have been killed.
Are you trying to say that the Israeli's haven't killed innocent children? I've seen a soldiar shoot a father trying to protect his child by huddling in a corner. What you've said is speculative and deflective of the point.
EDITED_BY: DeepSoulSheep (1084973154)
More dead. As they fire into a crowd.
Quote:
More Israelis have been killed due to terrorisim and war than those of their neighbors of Palistine.
Did you just make that up or do you honestly believe that? I can't remember figures but something like 10 times more Palestinians have been killed.
Quote:
I notice the article didn't say who killed the kids, could it have been stray Palistinian gunfire, or is it too much to think about the possibility that the Israeli army might not have done it?
Are you trying to say that the Israeli's haven't killed innocent children? I've seen a soldiar shoot a father trying to protect his child by huddling in a corner. What you've said is speculative and deflective of the point.
EDITED_BY: DeepSoulSheep (1084973154)
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
No I am not saying the Israelis are innocent of killing children, what in the world would make you try to put those words in my mouth?
And 10x more palistinies have been killed than Israelis where do you get that number, think about it how many years of war has Israel seen? Not to mention people strapping bombs to their chests and running onto school busses and into markets.
Yes the should know better, you are so absolutly right, I am not advocating what they have done, just it is hard to get angry at them when they have been through so much crap. They are sick of it and I dont blame them for being sick of being the target of almost every arab nation.
No I am not saying the Israelis are innocent of killing children, what in the world would make you try to put those words in my mouth?
And 10x more palistinies have been killed than Israelis where do you get that number, think about it how many years of war has Israel seen? Not to mention people strapping bombs to their chests and running onto school busses and into markets.
Yes the should know better, you are so absolutly right, I am not advocating what they have done, just it is hard to get angry at them when they have been through so much crap. They are sick of it and I dont blame them for being sick of being the target of almost every arab nation.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Posted:
My first reaction to that statement was Bollocks, stop talking through your ass. Sigh.. However just cause your beliefs are different to mine I'm not going to rubbish them. Yes I can feel sorry for 'them' for all 'they' have been through. But who is 'they'? - their ancestors? What about the anguish 'they' are causing?
Its good to see someone being so forgiving. I presume that you also find it angry to get angry with the Palestinians who carry out terrorist attacks? After all, look at all they have been through? And you forgive the Iraqis who beheaded captive American recently? Look at all the Iraqi's have been through afterall?
Can you understand and forgive these acts also? You find it hard to get angry by such attacks? If so, congratulations, more understanding all round required if not read my first sentence again.
Personally, I find it hard not to be angry and saddened by the senseless violence, can't we settle our arguments with a good game of footie? Of course that would probably lead to a world war about what constitutes 'footie'
Quote:
just it is hard to get angry at them when they have been through so much crap
My first reaction to that statement was Bollocks, stop talking through your ass. Sigh.. However just cause your beliefs are different to mine I'm not going to rubbish them. Yes I can feel sorry for 'them' for all 'they' have been through. But who is 'they'? - their ancestors? What about the anguish 'they' are causing?
Its good to see someone being so forgiving. I presume that you also find it angry to get angry with the Palestinians who carry out terrorist attacks? After all, look at all they have been through? And you forgive the Iraqis who beheaded captive American recently? Look at all the Iraqi's have been through afterall?
Can you understand and forgive these acts also? You find it hard to get angry by such attacks? If so, congratulations, more understanding all round required if not read my first sentence again.
Personally, I find it hard not to be angry and saddened by the senseless violence, can't we settle our arguments with a good game of footie? Of course that would probably lead to a world war about what constitutes 'footie'
Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.
- W B Yeats
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Here's my general view.
1) Israel has a right to exist. I will not accept any argument to the contrary.
2) The Palestinian people also have a right to exist. I will also not accept any argument to the contrary.
The problem is that between the two sides, there is so much bad blood that the situation is irreperable as it stands. With each attack and retaliation and counter-retaliation and counter-counter retaliation, the argument of who's right and who's wrong becomes meaningless. Fact is both sides are wrong. It doesn't matter who's piled up more bodies, or who has killed more innocent children.
The Israelis have locked up innocents, killed children, bulldozed homes, etc. But the Palestinian terrorists have used innocents as shields, giving the Israelis no other option. Similarly, the Palestinian terrorists have killed innocent children who did nothing worse than going to a pizza parlor.
And as Israel makes life even more miserable for the Palestinians, they get more outraged, more desperate, and more violent. And the more they attack, the more enraged Israel gets. Neither side is going to back down.
It is wrong to lay the blame at the feet of either party.
I think the wall is going to be a good idea. Just treat them like quarreling children (which is what they're acting like) and separate them until things cool down (which will probably take 50 years).
Here's my general view.
1) Israel has a right to exist. I will not accept any argument to the contrary.
2) The Palestinian people also have a right to exist. I will also not accept any argument to the contrary.
The problem is that between the two sides, there is so much bad blood that the situation is irreperable as it stands. With each attack and retaliation and counter-retaliation and counter-counter retaliation, the argument of who's right and who's wrong becomes meaningless. Fact is both sides are wrong. It doesn't matter who's piled up more bodies, or who has killed more innocent children.
The Israelis have locked up innocents, killed children, bulldozed homes, etc. But the Palestinian terrorists have used innocents as shields, giving the Israelis no other option. Similarly, the Palestinian terrorists have killed innocent children who did nothing worse than going to a pizza parlor.
And as Israel makes life even more miserable for the Palestinians, they get more outraged, more desperate, and more violent. And the more they attack, the more enraged Israel gets. Neither side is going to back down.
It is wrong to lay the blame at the feet of either party.
I think the wall is going to be a good idea. Just treat them like quarreling children (which is what they're acting like) and separate them until things cool down (which will probably take 50 years).
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Posted:
Well said Mike
Though the wall is certainly not a solution, even a temporary one. Borders aggrevate the hatred rather than lesson it imo.
Well said Mike
Though the wall is certainly not a solution, even a temporary one. Borders aggrevate the hatred rather than lesson it imo.
Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.
- W B Yeats
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
I put no words in your mouth. I asked you a question.
So you're not suggesting that the Palestinians killed the children instead of Israeli soldiers? Or am I missing the point you were trying to make.
I can't see what else you meant except to suggest that people throw fact like dead children round without considering that they may have been killed by their own people.
Facts
3020 killed as on 5th of may. It's jumped in the last weeks that's for sure.
22% of people killed are under age of 18
12.4% of people killed aged 15 or younger. Maybe they were killed by Palestinians too.
I can't find the most up to date figures for both sides.....this is the best I could find.
Whent he death toll was as 2700 the number of dead Israelis was 840 source
Not ten times the number I know but I knew it was a considerable difference.
I put no words in your mouth. I asked you a question.
So you're not suggesting that the Palestinians killed the children instead of Israeli soldiers? Or am I missing the point you were trying to make.
I can't see what else you meant except to suggest that people throw fact like dead children round without considering that they may have been killed by their own people.
Facts
3020 killed as on 5th of may. It's jumped in the last weeks that's for sure.
22% of people killed are under age of 18
12.4% of people killed aged 15 or younger. Maybe they were killed by Palestinians too.
I can't find the most up to date figures for both sides.....this is the best I could find.
Whent he death toll was as 2700 the number of dead Israelis was 840 source
Quote:source
Number of Israelis Killed: 799
This ratio translates into the same as 37,927 Americans being killed.
Number of Palestinians Killed: 2,495
This ratio translates into the same as 206,262 Americans being killed.
Not ten times the number I know but I knew it was a considerable difference.
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
That is what I was refering to and to answer your question again, no I am not trying to say that Israelis havn't killed innocent children.
I wonder if your facts include the 5 wars fought since the early 1900's? I was including those, sorry I need to reread what I said but I might have tried to say that. If not I apologise for my obscurity.
I agree with Lightining on this one 100%.
Actually Kat, their ancestors (being what WWII era?) were put through some serious tribulation, not to mention wars, terrorist attacks, unprevoked missle attacks and a lot more. So yes THEY should have our pity, THEY should have our sympothy.
You would be supprised at what I can forgive, I think justice should be done, but I am all for forgivness, after all why should I expect to be forgiven, if I do not forgive?
Quote:
Are you trying to say that the Israeli's haven't killed innocent children?
That is what I was refering to and to answer your question again, no I am not trying to say that Israelis havn't killed innocent children.
I wonder if your facts include the 5 wars fought since the early 1900's? I was including those, sorry I need to reread what I said but I might have tried to say that. If not I apologise for my obscurity.
I agree with Lightining on this one 100%.
Actually Kat, their ancestors (being what WWII era?) were put through some serious tribulation, not to mention wars, terrorist attacks, unprevoked missle attacks and a lot more. So yes THEY should have our pity, THEY should have our sympothy.
You would be supprised at what I can forgive, I think justice should be done, but I am all for forgivness, after all why should I expect to be forgiven, if I do not forgive?
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
What's your alternative, then? They're not going to hold hands and sing "Kum-bay-a." Clinton tried the group-hug therapy thing, remember?
Quote:
Well said Mike
Though the wall is certainly not a solution, even a temporary one. Borders aggrevate the hatred rather than lesson it imo.
What's your alternative, then? They're not going to hold hands and sing "Kum-bay-a." Clinton tried the group-hug therapy thing, remember?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Sheep, I don't care what the ratio is. It's completely irrelevant. Just because the Israelis are better at it doesn't make them more evil, just more organized.
The fallacy with both sides is that they believe that if they blow the other guy up enough, the other side will tuck tail and run.
It's not going to happen, which is why I like the wall.
Sheep, I don't care what the ratio is. It's completely irrelevant. Just because the Israelis are better at it doesn't make them more evil, just more organized.
The fallacy with both sides is that they believe that if they blow the other guy up enough, the other side will tuck tail and run.
It's not going to happen, which is why I like the wall.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Llamas are larger than frogs.
319 posts
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Llamas are larger than frogs.
319 posts
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posted:
Mike, what about the Palestinian towns that the wall chops in half, leaving them having to decide whether to stay in their homes on one side or go to work on the other, since it will be practically impossible to cross? Not to mention that the wall steals tons of land that is supposed to belong to Palestinians, yet is on the Isreali side of the wall.
Yes, I agree that Isreal has a right to exist. Theoretically, it is a wonderful idea. But the Jews who have been persecuted for so long seem to have learned nothing from that terrible history, and instead are taking the same kinds of actions towards other people. Like Lightning says, it's extremely childish.
What both sides are doing is terrorism, and is utterly wrong. It is easy to want to feel sorry for the Jews and all they've been through, but this terrorism is unacceptable. It is also unacceptable how much support the US has given them: helicoptors, weapons, bulldozers, money...which all goes to fight the Palestinians.
Quote:
I think the wall is going to be a good idea. Just treat them like quarreling children (which is what they're acting like) and separate them until things cool down (which will probably take 50 years).
Mike, what about the Palestinian towns that the wall chops in half, leaving them having to decide whether to stay in their homes on one side or go to work on the other, since it will be practically impossible to cross? Not to mention that the wall steals tons of land that is supposed to belong to Palestinians, yet is on the Isreali side of the wall.
Yes, I agree that Isreal has a right to exist. Theoretically, it is a wonderful idea. But the Jews who have been persecuted for so long seem to have learned nothing from that terrible history, and instead are taking the same kinds of actions towards other people. Like Lightning says, it's extremely childish.
What both sides are doing is terrorism, and is utterly wrong. It is easy to want to feel sorry for the Jews and all they've been through, but this terrorism is unacceptable. It is also unacceptable how much support the US has given them: helicoptors, weapons, bulldozers, money...which all goes to fight the Palestinians.
"I know a good deal more than a boiled carrot."
"Fire!" "Where?" "Nowhere, I was just illustrating the misuse of free speech."
member
190 posts
190 posts
Posted:
the wall is actually going to destroy ~7% of palestinian homes.
the wall is actually going to destroy ~7% of palestinian homes.
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
If the US and other countries, namly the UK, I might add, didn't give aid to Isreal, it wouldnt exist. Your wonderful idea would have been nothing but a slaughter house, instead of a refuge for Jews it would be a cemitary. Sometimes military power is a good thing.
Edit
Robotface, homes can be rebuilt, the lives this wall will probably save, cant.
EDITED_BY: Burzaruka (1084998486)
If the US and other countries, namly the UK, I might add, didn't give aid to Isreal, it wouldnt exist. Your wonderful idea would have been nothing but a slaughter house, instead of a refuge for Jews it would be a cemitary. Sometimes military power is a good thing.
Edit
Robotface, homes can be rebuilt, the lives this wall will probably save, cant.
EDITED_BY: Burzaruka (1084998486)
member
190 posts
190 posts
Posted:
Israel stoped needing aid inorder to exist a damn long time ago, they now manufacture most of their military hardware and export tons of it. (some of it some of the best in the world, a lot less american soldiers would be dead if they were using gali assault rifles)
I think the only help they deserve anymore is the pilot training program. Perhaps they should be paying for that aswell. I have little issue with the US selling them military equipment, they would just buy it from someone else, but they are far to powerful to need handouts anymore.
Edit:as for the homes, what makes you think this wont enrage the palestinians more? Im not convinced the wall will save any lives. Supposedly they have been building elaborate tunnels to smuggle in arms, you don't think they can build elaborate tunnels under the wall? Or just circumnavigate it?
Between the wall and the restrictions put on movement between palestinian villages, all they are doing is destroying their opportunity to work. Healthy busy palestinians are a lot safer for
israel then unemployed pissed off ones.
Israel stoped needing aid inorder to exist a damn long time ago, they now manufacture most of their military hardware and export tons of it. (some of it some of the best in the world, a lot less american soldiers would be dead if they were using gali assault rifles)
I think the only help they deserve anymore is the pilot training program. Perhaps they should be paying for that aswell. I have little issue with the US selling them military equipment, they would just buy it from someone else, but they are far to powerful to need handouts anymore.
Edit:as for the homes, what makes you think this wont enrage the palestinians more? Im not convinced the wall will save any lives. Supposedly they have been building elaborate tunnels to smuggle in arms, you don't think they can build elaborate tunnels under the wall? Or just circumnavigate it?
Between the wall and the restrictions put on movement between palestinian villages, all they are doing is destroying their opportunity to work. Healthy busy palestinians are a lot safer for
israel then unemployed pissed off ones.
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
Perhaps they should open up a Palistinian transit system, like busses to go between villages. That way they can keep their "safty" and keep the restrictions but allow movment for palistine at any time of the day. I know it isnt the best idea, but it is an idea, personally they all need to just have a serious think. Put down the guns for a day or a week and just think about things.
Perhaps they should open up a Palistinian transit system, like busses to go between villages. That way they can keep their "safty" and keep the restrictions but allow movment for palistine at any time of the day. I know it isnt the best idea, but it is an idea, personally they all need to just have a serious think. Put down the guns for a day or a week and just think about things.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
No, Israel is not using terrorism. War crimes, perhaps. Crimes against humanity, perhaps. But not terrorism. Let's not forget that terrorism is an action by a non-military force against non-military targets.
I consider this an important point because otherwise the word "terrorist" is going to turn into the word "witch" or "communist."
The fact is that there is no single, just, and effective solution to the problem. Because terrorists are civilians, Israel has no way of knowing exactly which Palestinian is a simple civilian just trying to scrape out a living and which Palestinian has 10 kilos of high explosive strapped to him. Thus, it's more complicated than just giving them jobs. Giving them jobs won't make the terrorism stop quickly enough.
Remember, if bombs were going off almost every day in your country, you'd be pretty paranoid, too. The Israelis have a right to be paranoid.
What they should do with the wall is PAY to relocate anyone who needs to be relocated. Israel is a wealthy country. That's the least they can do.
I don't like the wall, either. But I can't think of a better solution. "Peace" isn't working.
Quote:
What both sides are doing is terrorism, and is utterly wrong
No, Israel is not using terrorism. War crimes, perhaps. Crimes against humanity, perhaps. But not terrorism. Let's not forget that terrorism is an action by a non-military force against non-military targets.
I consider this an important point because otherwise the word "terrorist" is going to turn into the word "witch" or "communist."
The fact is that there is no single, just, and effective solution to the problem. Because terrorists are civilians, Israel has no way of knowing exactly which Palestinian is a simple civilian just trying to scrape out a living and which Palestinian has 10 kilos of high explosive strapped to him. Thus, it's more complicated than just giving them jobs. Giving them jobs won't make the terrorism stop quickly enough.
Remember, if bombs were going off almost every day in your country, you'd be pretty paranoid, too. The Israelis have a right to be paranoid.
What they should do with the wall is PAY to relocate anyone who needs to be relocated. Israel is a wealthy country. That's the least they can do.
I don't like the wall, either. But I can't think of a better solution. "Peace" isn't working.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Pooh-Bah
2,211 posts
Location: London, Wales (UK)
Posted:
Sadly I'm all out of solutions today, having just expounded on how if we all meditated for 5 minutes a day we could eradicate world poverty!
I wish I could offer solutions Mike and if the answer was as easy as wall, I'd agree. The Palestinians are getting the raw deal, a deal that will not easily be forgetten. 50 years and a sea between people isn't enough to cool down some hatreds.
Quote:
What's your alternative, then? They're not going to hold hands and sing "Kum-bay-a." Clinton tried the group-hug therapy thing, remember
Sadly I'm all out of solutions today, having just expounded on how if we all meditated for 5 minutes a day we could eradicate world poverty! I wish I could offer solutions Mike and if the answer was as easy as wall, I'd agree. The Palestinians are getting the raw deal, a deal that will not easily be forgetten. 50 years and a sea between people isn't enough to cool down some hatreds.
Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.
- W B Yeats
BRONZE Member
Llamas are larger than frogs.
319 posts
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Llamas are larger than frogs.
319 posts
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posted:
Both good ideas, but ones which would require the Israeli government to WANT to help the Palestinians out that much, a sentiment which they don't seem to be showing much of.
And Lightning, that's one definition of the word terrorism, but it can be taken other ways, too. I mean, look at the word itself- TERRORism. It is "the systematic use of terror esp. as a means of coercion" -Webster's Dictionary; this is what IS happening on both sides.
Quote:
What they should do with the wall is PAY to relocate anyone who needs to be relocated. Israel is a wealthy country. That's the least they can do.
Quote:
Perhaps they should open up a Palistinian transit system, like busses to go between villages. That way they can keep their "safty" and keep the restrictions but allow movment for palistine at any time of the day.
Both good ideas, but ones which would require the Israeli government to WANT to help the Palestinians out that much, a sentiment which they don't seem to be showing much of.
And Lightning, that's one definition of the word terrorism, but it can be taken other ways, too. I mean, look at the word itself- TERRORism. It is "the systematic use of terror esp. as a means of coercion" -Webster's Dictionary; this is what IS happening on both sides.
"I know a good deal more than a boiled carrot."
"Fire!" "Where?" "Nowhere, I was just illustrating the misuse of free speech."
member
190 posts
190 posts
Posted:
Psychotic israeli settlers keep moving there, even though israel has bulldozed the setllers houses before.
Personally Id be fine if they handed over the land, and left the settlers to fend for themselves.
Psychotic israeli settlers keep moving there, even though israel has bulldozed the setllers houses before.
Personally Id be fine if they handed over the land, and left the settlers to fend for themselves.
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
Sure you would be fine unless they did it to you. Assuming your white, it would be like dropping your butt in Harlem Die Hard 3 (Die Hard with a Vengence) style and seeing how long you last.
Sure you would be fine unless they did it to you. Assuming your white, it would be like dropping your butt in Harlem Die Hard 3 (Die Hard with a Vengence) style and seeing how long you last.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
Lightning, I don't care for tallying dead either. I only posted the statistics becauase Burzaruka claimed
I only posted in this thread because I knew this to be misleading at best.
Lightning, I don't care for tallying dead either. I only posted the statistics becauase Burzaruka claimed
Quote:
More Israelis have been killed due to terrorisim and war than those of their neighbors of Palistine.
I only posted in this thread because I knew this to be misleading at best.
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
member
190 posts
190 posts
Posted:
Uh lots of white people move to harlem and do fine, do you think black people just violently lash
out to white people because they are violent and racist?
I don't think you make any point here besides contradicting that I am infact not fine with it, contrary to what i said.
XXXX XXX
<<
Heated discussion is good, personall attacks are not>>>
EDITED_BY: Charles (1085258151)
Uh lots of white people move to harlem and do fine, do you think black people just violently lash
out to white people because they are violent and racist?
I don't think you make any point here besides contradicting that I am infact not fine with it, contrary to what i said.
XXXX XXX
<<
Heated discussion is good, personall attacks are not>>>
EDITED_BY: Charles (1085258151)
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
Robotface, have you seen Die Hard 3? I take it not. I couldnt give you the whole synopsis but the part I was refering to was the main character who had to walk around harlem for 15 minutes with a sign that said "I hate N********" or else another bomb would go off.
Fictional story, but the relation to that and your little quote is that if you were to just hand over the land and let any Israeli or Palistinie people move in one or the other would not live the day. You said you were fine with this, I was trying to point out your flawed thinking, not say anything about black people or white people or racisim.
On another note, I dont cuss and swear at you, so lets not tell eachother to piss off, it doesnt lead anywhere.
Quote:
Personally Id be fine if they handed over the land, and left the settlers to fend for themselves.
Robotface, have you seen Die Hard 3? I take it not. I couldnt give you the whole synopsis but the part I was refering to was the main character who had to walk around harlem for 15 minutes with a sign that said "I hate N********" or else another bomb would go off.
Fictional story, but the relation to that and your little quote is that if you were to just hand over the land and let any Israeli or Palistinie people move in one or the other would not live the day. You said you were fine with this, I was trying to point out your flawed thinking, not say anything about black people or white people or racisim.
On another note, I dont cuss and swear at you, so lets not tell eachother to piss off, it doesnt lead anywhere.
member
190 posts
190 posts
Posted:
oh, I never did see die hard 3.
Also I misunderstood what you were talking about with me being "fine" with it.
Why am I fine with the israeli settlers being abandoned? Because they can easily return to where they came from, and they are far from helpless, they are on par with american survivalists who stockpile arms incase the communists invade, they build their homes like forts and often have some level of military training. It's their choice to move outside of where israel can protect them and it's their choice to jeopardize the peace makeing process. It wouldn't happen to me because I wouldn't make that decision.
oh, I never did see die hard 3.
Also I misunderstood what you were talking about with me being "fine" with it.
Why am I fine with the israeli settlers being abandoned? Because they can easily return to where they came from, and they are far from helpless, they are on par with american survivalists who stockpile arms incase the communists invade, they build their homes like forts and often have some level of military training. It's their choice to move outside of where israel can protect them and it's their choice to jeopardize the peace makeing process. It wouldn't happen to me because I wouldn't make that decision.
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