Forums > Introductions > the coleman abides
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big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
i'm trying to get into changing this intro from time to time - at the very least to keep the music and films bit 'up to date'.
name: cole[man]
sex: male
age: 27
location: i live in a veritable castle in leytonstone in east london with my beautiful girlfriend
i used to go to lots of workshops but i have to admit, its a fairly rare occurance these days.
your favourite website/s: this one is okay
jugglingdb.com, contactjuggling.org, okayplayer.com, spherculism.com, playfestival.co.uk, magicbunny.co.uk, gettyimages.co.uk, toolband.com, airside.co.uk...
toys: i play poi and juggle balls. every now and again (like most people i think) i pick up other toys but am worse at all of these than i am at the keeping balls in the air thing - 97531, drop, drop, drop, drop, drop.
been twirling: since may 2002.
i could do the basic stuff (just a fwd and rev 3bt weave and a fwd butterfly) back in nov 2001 but then went and did a snowboard season in the alps and forgot everything.
when i came back, i discovered one of my best friends had learnt loads!
so summer 2002, i was in the lucky position of being around wikid poi people every weekend and having a friend acting almost as a personal tutor during the week.
big love and respect to jonny moohaahaa and fairie cath for all your patience, effort, guidance and days and days of playtime!
i began learning to juggle in august or september of 2002.
recent manipulation trends: been playing with one and two 4" stage balls quite a bit whilst wiggling bits of my body, learning to juggle 5 balls all over again, 3 ball body throws, getting confused about antispin, balancing things on my head and spinning a ball on my finger.
occupation: db admin and layout & design (similar to a porn star, just in an office). i work for a small, law firm in their information and research department. i also handle all of the firm's dtp, digital publishing and commercial print. aerotech toys aren't cheap and since my body won't ever make me rich, i have resorted to something a little more conventional
hobbies: bammy , this stuff, music, collecting things (i'm very bad for this) and boarding (although my skating is now non-existent due to me being crap and it hurting too much so just snow when i can afford it).
music: i like pretty much all of it. current playlist includes TOOL, RADIOHEAD, THE ROOTS, D'ANGELO and JEFF BUCKLEY, (and the rest) wayne shorter, a perfect circle, billie holiday, jill scott, joni mitchell, saul williams, john coltrane, soad, dj shadow, roy hargrove, 4-tet, edith piaf, cat empire, faith no more...
movies: recently seen... old boy
team america, the last samurai, the ladykillers, the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, shaolin kung fu master, jackie brown, shrek 2, shogun assassin, midnight express, lotr, seven samurai & magnificent seven double bill, kill bill 1 & 2, confessions of a dangerous mind, eraserhead, princess mononoke, a beautiful mind, pay it forward, adaptation, waking life.
favourites... shogun assassin, requium for a dream, anything by lynch, kevin smith or the coen brothers or anything written by charlie kaufmann.
books: recent... hiding the elephant, illuminatus trilogy, philosophical investigations, a book on nlp, shogun, oracle night, peter cook '...only twin', the curious incident of the dog in the night time, lord of the rings trilogy (first time ever - it didn't disappoint!), the complete winnie-the-pooh collection, of mice and men, vurt (again), chocky, brave new world, dune, falling out of cars, alice's adventures in wonderland.
favourite authors... jeff noon, iain banks, robert anton wilson and comic/graphic novel writers that only fanboys like me have ever heard of (brian michael bendis, j. m. staczynski, kevin smith, alan moore, greg rucker, brian azzarello).
tv: was invented solely to distribute the league and the boosh to the masses.
favourite colour(s): both of them - black and white
favourite number: three - its magic don't ya know?
i never had a favourite number until last year so i thought i may as well put it up here with the rest of the useless information.
and a quick note about that orange 'grumpy' face on the top of all my posts - i'm not mean or unhappy, nor does it suggest that i'm angry in every post i make.
i just think its cooler than the regular pin-in-a-post-it message icon. and it makes it easy to spot my own posts cos it rarely gets used by anyone else. and its orange and black.
and now for posterity's sake, my old sig list:
the original guru quote:
'its often easier to give advice,
than it is for a person to run one's own life'
the art lift:
if i am who i am because of who i am
and you are who you are because of who you are
then i am who i am and you are who you are
however...
if i am who i am because of who you are
and you are who you are because of who i am
then i am not who i am and you are not who you are
on the brink of war:
the horror
is that dave?:
you're myyyy wiiife noooooooooow...
confusing nix? with some bill hicks:
"here's tom with the weather..."
cryptic or just argumentative?:
a windmill in a fountain is like a spoon in the matrix...
its always a good idea to learn to swim:
mom's gonna fix it all soon.
mom's coming round to put it back the way it ought to be.
cassette boy's jewish doctor:
"you're dead.
GOD TOLD ME."
ever had a watch up your ass?:
"If any of you people disagree, I loathe you. I despise you. If I ever meet you in person, I'll smash your brains in with a f***ing bat. Then we'll see who doesn't like hot dogs."
karma:
Non-Https Image Link
the end of the beginning:
silencio...
*never* become a performer:
"i felt so strongly that I belonged in that triangle that I started sleeping in it - you can imagine what this did for my home life..."
beware the renaissance gentleman:
"on the contrary george of asda: you will tell us... everything."
boo! shhhhh...
"i'm gonna snap your nose off and toss it at a vicar..."
why do we even bother to be here:
how they survive so misguided is a mystery.
repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability,
to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
EDITED_BY: coleman (1178054280)
i'm trying to get into changing this intro from time to time - at the very least to keep the music and films bit 'up to date'.
name: cole[man]
sex: male
age: 27
location: i live in a veritable castle in leytonstone in east london with my beautiful girlfriend
i used to go to lots of workshops but i have to admit, its a fairly rare occurance these days.
your favourite website/s: this one is okay
jugglingdb.com, contactjuggling.org, okayplayer.com, spherculism.com, playfestival.co.uk, magicbunny.co.uk, gettyimages.co.uk, toolband.com, airside.co.uk...toys: i play poi and juggle balls. every now and again (like most people i think) i pick up other toys but am worse at all of these than i am at the keeping balls in the air thing - 97531, drop, drop, drop, drop, drop.
been twirling: since may 2002.
i could do the basic stuff (just a fwd and rev 3bt weave and a fwd butterfly) back in nov 2001 but then went and did a snowboard season in the alps and forgot everything.
when i came back, i discovered one of my best friends had learnt loads!
so summer 2002, i was in the lucky position of being around wikid poi people every weekend and having a friend acting almost as a personal tutor during the week.
big love and respect to jonny moohaahaa and fairie cath for all your patience, effort, guidance and days and days of playtime!
i began learning to juggle in august or september of 2002.
recent manipulation trends: been playing with one and two 4" stage balls quite a bit whilst wiggling bits of my body, learning to juggle 5 balls all over again, 3 ball body throws, getting confused about antispin, balancing things on my head and spinning a ball on my finger.
occupation: db admin and layout & design (similar to a porn star, just in an office). i work for a small, law firm in their information and research department. i also handle all of the firm's dtp, digital publishing and commercial print. aerotech toys aren't cheap and since my body won't ever make me rich, i have resorted to something a little more conventional
hobbies: bammy
, this stuff, music, collecting things (i'm very bad for this) and boarding (although my skating is now non-existent due to me being crap and it hurting too much so just snow when i can afford it).music: i like pretty much all of it. current playlist includes TOOL, RADIOHEAD, THE ROOTS, D'ANGELO and JEFF BUCKLEY, (and the rest) wayne shorter, a perfect circle, billie holiday, jill scott, joni mitchell, saul williams, john coltrane, soad, dj shadow, roy hargrove, 4-tet, edith piaf, cat empire, faith no more...
movies: recently seen... old boy
team america, the last samurai, the ladykillers, the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, shaolin kung fu master, jackie brown, shrek 2, shogun assassin, midnight express, lotr, seven samurai & magnificent seven double bill, kill bill 1 & 2, confessions of a dangerous mind, eraserhead, princess mononoke, a beautiful mind, pay it forward, adaptation, waking life.favourites... shogun assassin, requium for a dream, anything by lynch, kevin smith or the coen brothers or anything written by charlie kaufmann.
books: recent... hiding the elephant, illuminatus trilogy, philosophical investigations, a book on nlp, shogun, oracle night, peter cook '...only twin', the curious incident of the dog in the night time, lord of the rings trilogy (first time ever - it didn't disappoint!), the complete winnie-the-pooh collection, of mice and men, vurt (again), chocky, brave new world, dune, falling out of cars, alice's adventures in wonderland.
favourite authors... jeff noon, iain banks, robert anton wilson and comic/graphic novel writers that only fanboys like me have ever heard of (brian michael bendis, j. m. staczynski, kevin smith, alan moore, greg rucker, brian azzarello).
tv: was invented solely to distribute the league and the boosh to the masses.
favourite colour(s): both of them - black and white
favourite number: three - its magic don't ya know?
i never had a favourite number until last year so i thought i may as well put it up here with the rest of the useless information.
and a quick note about that orange 'grumpy' face on the top of all my posts - i'm not mean or unhappy, nor does it suggest that i'm angry in every post i make.
i just think its cooler than the regular pin-in-a-post-it message icon. and it makes it easy to spot my own posts cos it rarely gets used by anyone else. and its orange and black.
and now for posterity's sake, my old sig list:
the original guru quote:
'its often easier to give advice,
than it is for a person to run one's own life'
the art lift:
if i am who i am because of who i am
and you are who you are because of who you are
then i am who i am and you are who you are
however...
if i am who i am because of who you are
and you are who you are because of who i am
then i am not who i am and you are not who you are
on the brink of war:
the horror
is that dave?:
you're myyyy wiiife noooooooooow...
confusing nix? with some bill hicks:
"here's tom with the weather..."
cryptic or just argumentative?:
a windmill in a fountain is like a spoon in the matrix...
its always a good idea to learn to swim:
mom's gonna fix it all soon.
mom's coming round to put it back the way it ought to be.
cassette boy's jewish doctor:
"you're dead.
GOD TOLD ME."
ever had a watch up your ass?:
"If any of you people disagree, I loathe you. I despise you. If I ever meet you in person, I'll smash your brains in with a f***ing bat. Then we'll see who doesn't like hot dogs."
karma:
Non-Https Image Link
the end of the beginning:
silencio...
*never* become a performer:
"i felt so strongly that I belonged in that triangle that I started sleeping in it - you can imagine what this did for my home life..."
beware the renaissance gentleman:
"on the contrary george of asda: you will tell us... everything."
boo! shhhhh...
"i'm gonna snap your nose off and toss it at a vicar..."
why do we even bother to be here:
how they survive so misguided is a mystery.
repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability,
to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
EDITED_BY: coleman (1178054280)
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Miss Whippy
1,262 posts
Location: Cornwall & Oxford
1,262 posts
Location: Cornwall & Oxford
Posted:
He's scary!
Fun site though
Hey cole
He's scary!
Fun site though
Hey cole
Aim high and you'll know your limits, aim low and you'll never know how high you could have climbed.
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Cole,
I trust this will make you much happier, and will give you a good break/ is the antidote for monday morning blues.
Its a great case of someone winding others up with cybersex in the funniest ways.
Kit sent me the link originally.
Cole,
I trust this will make you much happier, and will give you a good break/ is the antidote for monday morning blues.
Its a great case of someone winding others up with cybersex in the funniest ways.
Kit sent me the link originally.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
UK Hip Hop.
That's cute.
Kinda like US Soccer. Pat em' on the head and tell them good job and get them off the field before the big boys show up.
UK Hip Hop.
That's cute.
Kinda like US Soccer. Pat em' on the head and tell them good job and get them off the field before the big boys show up.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Oh yeah... I forgot.
HI!
(That's what I came here to say but got distracted.)
Oh yeah... I forgot.
HI!
(That's what I came here to say but got distracted.)
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
nice blinkers nyc - where'd ya get em?
i have to agree though - yeah uk hiphop is on the same tip as that marshall mathers bloke.
next level my arsehole.
why does he even try and rap?!
he's WHITE gotdammit!??!!!??!
seriously though, american mc's might as well have given up after rakim hit the scene - all they ever done since is quote him anyway.
cole. x
p.s. i just ordered an album that i lost two years ago and have been missing every day since: "i want that old thing back..."
p.p.s. hi!
nice blinkers nyc - where'd ya get em?
i have to agree though - yeah uk hiphop is on the same tip as that marshall mathers bloke.
next level my arsehole.
why does he even try and rap?!
he's WHITE gotdammit!??!!!??!
seriously though, american mc's might as well have given up after rakim hit the scene - all they ever done since is quote him anyway.
cole. x
p.s. i just ordered an album that i lost two years ago and have been missing every day since: "i want that old thing back..."
p.p.s. hi!
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
lovable smart-ass
785 posts
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria
785 posts
Location: vineyards, Vienna, Austria
Posted:
this made me and phil nearly piss ourself...
its pure genius
Written by: Unregistered
Cole,
this
Its a great case of someone winding others up with cybersex in the funniest ways.
Kit sent me the link originally.
this made me and phil nearly piss ourself...
its pure genius
"is optimism in austria just a lack of information?"
-Alfred Dorfer
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
nope.
disagree with the NYC dud.
mostly cause of djrubbish and the streets.
nice pic tho UK-off
nope.
disagree with the NYC dud.
mostly cause of djrubbish and the streets.
nice pic tho UK-off
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I think DJRubbish and The Streets would disagree with you.
And Eminem is the greatest rapper ever. Most people only hear his radio/overplayed crap. I agree, it's 75% Dr. Dre making him great. But Em's underground, well produced, dre beats on a good day is unbeatable. And anything of his you hear on MTV is soggy crap.
I think DJRubbish and The Streets would disagree with you.
And Eminem is the greatest rapper ever. Most people only hear his radio/overplayed crap. I agree, it's 75% Dr. Dre making him great. But Em's underground, well produced, dre beats on a good day is unbeatable. And anything of his you hear on MTV is soggy crap.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Actually, scratch that... I love 'the streets' but they're simply Garage with some hip hop sprinkled on to make it legit.
I can't say that "The Streets" is pioneering hiphop except in diluting it with rock so it will be more paliatable to white kids. Like Eminem's mainstream stuff.
Actually, scratch that... I love 'the streets' but they're simply Garage with some hip hop sprinkled on to make it legit.
I can't say that "The Streets" is pioneering hiphop except in diluting it with rock so it will be more paliatable to white kids. Like Eminem's mainstream stuff.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
yup. eminem is pretty damn good.
re: rubbish/streets; uk rap of this kind is good cause it's NOT trying to be american.
explain yerself tho.
yup. eminem is pretty damn good.
re: rubbish/streets; uk rap of this kind is good cause it's NOT trying to be american.
explain yerself tho.
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
what like [Old link] for example...?
that got rinsed on mtv which makes it crap apparently, but you thought it was great - which way you gonna swing next nyc...?
i only have one track of eminem from back in the day - 'any man' on soundbombin'II.
great rhymes but a lot of nonsence.
but seeing as we seem to be actually discussing this now rather than pretending to cuss out eminem and uk hiphop, i have to disagree with yoo too nyc.
em may be one of the greatest battle rappers ever.
and he definitely has one of the most unique rhymestyles in hiphop.
but he is a long way from being the greatest rapper ever.
mc's that easily rank higher than the young mr mathers:
the r
biggie
mc ricky d
krs-1
chuck d
mc's that i think are better than eminem (but freely admit many would disagree with me):
black thought
big l
pharoahe monche
roots manuva
saul williams
mos def & kweli (bigger than the sum of the parts)
lauryn hill
kool keith
progidy
common
jay z (before he fell off)
del
and he might not count cos he isn't american or hiphop but, stevie hyper d
opinions are fun.
marmite is better than nutella.
see?
cole. x
Written by: NYC
And anything of his you hear on MTV is soggy crap.
what like [Old link] for example...?
that got rinsed on mtv which makes it crap apparently, but you thought it was great - which way you gonna swing next nyc...?
i only have one track of eminem from back in the day - 'any man' on soundbombin'II.
great rhymes but a lot of nonsence.
but seeing as we seem to be actually discussing this now rather than pretending to cuss out eminem and uk hiphop, i have to disagree with yoo too nyc.
em may be one of the greatest battle rappers ever.
and he definitely has one of the most unique rhymestyles in hiphop.
but he is a long way from being the greatest rapper ever.
mc's that easily rank higher than the young mr mathers:
the r
biggie
mc ricky d
krs-1
chuck d
mc's that i think are better than eminem (but freely admit many would disagree with me):
black thought
big l
pharoahe monche
roots manuva
saul williams
mos def & kweli (bigger than the sum of the parts)
lauryn hill
kool keith
progidy
common
jay z (before he fell off)
del
and he might not count cos he isn't american or hiphop but, stevie hyper d
opinions are fun.
marmite is better than nutella.
see?
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Pooh-Bah
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
Posted:
what can I say? the man's a swinger
Written by: coleman
which way you gonna swing next nyc...?
what can I say? the man's a swinger
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
right.
marmite is not better than nutella.
i think the general opinion is with me there(pulled a random page and got 13 nutella, 7 marmite)
biggie yes,
chuck d yes
lauryn hill yes
saul williams yes
others... not sure or not heard of.
anyhow.
you should know by now cole that nyc doesn't haev opinions. he has FACTS
right.
marmite is not better than nutella.
i think the general opinion is with me there(pulled a random page and got 13 nutella, 7 marmite)
biggie yes,
chuck d yes
lauryn hill yes
saul williams yes
others... not sure or not heard of.
anyhow.
you should know by now cole that nyc doesn't haev opinions. he has FACTS
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
mc's don't have to rap to hiphop nyc - that's an american assumption methinks...
rapping (arguably) came from and remains an element of hiphop but its not exclusive any more (if it ever was).
the streets aren't hiphop, but they do make rap music.
however where you can hear rock music in the streets' music i'll never understand...
for decent blending of rock with hiphop check saul williams' tracks 'fearless' and 'om nia merican' or even the roots' with 'rock you'.
cole. x
Written by: NYC
Actually, scratch that... I love 'the streets' but they're simply Garage with some hip hop sprinkled on to make it legit.
I can't say that "The Streets" is pioneering hiphop except in diluting it with rock so it will be more paliatable to white kids. Like Eminem's mainstream stuff.
mc's don't have to rap to hiphop nyc - that's an american assumption methinks...
rapping (arguably) came from and remains an element of hiphop but its not exclusive any more (if it ever was).
the streets aren't hiphop, but they do make rap music.
however where you can hear rock music in the streets' music i'll never understand...
for decent blending of rock with hiphop check saul williams' tracks 'fearless' and 'om nia merican' or even the roots' with 'rock you'.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I guess I'm bais because SO much of Hip Hop came out of and travels through New York City that I'm surrounded by very pure Hip Hop culture constantly.
I think a blending of UK sounds and Hip Hop would, by definition, be a step away from purity.
US Hip Hop came from, and still has such strong ties with inner city Black Amercian Culture.
UK Hip Hop came from US Hip Hop and therefore loses the "street cred" which IS so fundamental to US Hip Hop.
"Rap" has such a specific origin in the American Inner City because it is telling the story of the American Inner City Blacks. The cultures are so intertwined in a way that exists only in America because of culutral influences that exist only in America.
I totally embrase the idea of borrowing FROM American Hip Hop and combining it with other cultures, but it is a step removed.
{I'd say it's the same thing as a Maori person telling me that I don't spin Poi. They'd be right. Because to them "Poi" is something very specific.}
But I don't really care that much.
Now I can't get that Eminem song out of my head...
I guess I'm bais because SO much of Hip Hop came out of and travels through New York City that I'm surrounded by very pure Hip Hop culture constantly.
I think a blending of UK sounds and Hip Hop would, by definition, be a step away from purity.
US Hip Hop came from, and still has such strong ties with inner city Black Amercian Culture.
UK Hip Hop came from US Hip Hop and therefore loses the "street cred" which IS so fundamental to US Hip Hop.
"Rap" has such a specific origin in the American Inner City because it is telling the story of the American Inner City Blacks. The cultures are so intertwined in a way that exists only in America because of culutral influences that exist only in America.
I totally embrase the idea of borrowing FROM American Hip Hop and combining it with other cultures, but it is a step removed.
{I'd say it's the same thing as a Maori person telling me that I don't spin Poi. They'd be right. Because to them "Poi" is something very specific.}
But I don't really care that much.
Now I can't get that Eminem song out of my head...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
that first bit is sort of what i just said.
rap ain't hiphop.
graf ain't hiphop.
dj'in ain't hiphop.
b-boying ain't hiphop.
hiphop is a culture encompassing all of these elements.
i don't believe that culture is bound to the black areas of american inner cities.
i agree it emerged there but it is not confined to, or owned by these places.
if you still don't agree then follow through your argument and try to see if you can avoid concluding that 'violence' is the fifth element of hiphop.
boiled down your argument is: "if it ain't from queensbridge it ain't hiphop n*gga".
echo's of east vs west anyone?
in fact, this argument goes right back to the 'we invented it, we own it' debate.
a subject discussed many times on this forum alone.
new york does not own hiphop, the hiphop culture does not own rap music and as such, neither can be confined or contained.
cole. x
that first bit is sort of what i just said.
rap ain't hiphop.
graf ain't hiphop.
dj'in ain't hiphop.
b-boying ain't hiphop.
hiphop is a culture encompassing all of these elements.
i don't believe that culture is bound to the black areas of american inner cities.
i agree it emerged there but it is not confined to, or owned by these places.
if you still don't agree then follow through your argument and try to see if you can avoid concluding that 'violence' is the fifth element of hiphop.
boiled down your argument is: "if it ain't from queensbridge it ain't hiphop n*gga".
echo's of east vs west anyone?
in fact, this argument goes right back to the 'we invented it, we own it' debate.
a subject discussed many times on this forum alone.
new york does not own hiphop, the hiphop culture does not own rap music and as such, neither can be confined or contained.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
(in reply to NYC)
do you think so? cause hip-hop rapping comes from carribean toasting(as far as i am aware, partly from a book, will look up title, partly from the history of jamaican music). so while it has some origin in Inner City culture, its at least partly froma totally separate culture who would say exactly the same thing-that it was an offshoot that had less cultural value..
purism really, really pisses me off.
in fact its something i've been argueing about since i was six and told my grandfather he was wrong to say i couldn't use a word cause it had impure anglo-greek origins.
EDITED_BY: bluecat (1107360339)
(in reply to NYC)
do you think so? cause hip-hop rapping comes from carribean toasting(as far as i am aware, partly from a book, will look up title, partly from the history of jamaican music). so while it has some origin in Inner City culture, its at least partly froma totally separate culture who would say exactly the same thing-that it was an offshoot that had less cultural value..
purism really, really pisses me off.
in fact its something i've been argueing about since i was six and told my grandfather he was wrong to say i couldn't use a word cause it had impure anglo-greek origins.
EDITED_BY: bluecat (1107360339)
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
Pooh-Bah
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
Posted:
which word was that?
:curious:
which word was that?
:curious:
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
can't remember, but he said:
that word does not exist in english
and i replied
'english is always changing. if a language doesn't change its dead. that means i can make up words and they'll always be right'
wasn't i vomitworthily annoying.
can't remember, but he said:
that word does not exist in english
and i replied
'english is always changing. if a language doesn't change its dead. that means i can make up words and they'll always be right'
wasn't i vomitworthily annoying.
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I'd agree with the Wikipedia's definition of Hip Hop.
"Hip hop is a cultural movement that began amongst urban African American youth in New York and has since spread around the world."
My point is that I'm in New York so I only get exposed to 'pure' or 'original' hip hop rather than what it has progressed into in other areas. For me, blending hip hop with other cultures is a move away from what hip hop originated as.
To build on Bluecat's dislike of 'purism'... I think this is a purist issue. I admit my bias.
I'd never say that poi was juggling either. Cuz I'm a purist. Uh oh... I said the 'j' word.
I'd agree with the Wikipedia's definition of Hip Hop.
"Hip hop is a cultural movement that began amongst urban African American youth in New York and has since spread around the world."
My point is that I'm in New York so I only get exposed to 'pure' or 'original' hip hop rather than what it has progressed into in other areas. For me, blending hip hop with other cultures is a move away from what hip hop originated as.
To build on Bluecat's dislike of 'purism'... I think this is a purist issue. I admit my bias.
I'd never say that poi was juggling either. Cuz I'm a purist.
Uh oh... I said the 'j' word. Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
quick question...
are we arguing 'hiphop' or 'rap'
cause i was talking about rap within hiphop. you are talking about hiphop
off to check wikipedia.
but anyway. isn't EVERYTHING derivative of something?
but poi is definitely juggling related.
no arguments accepted.
quick question...
are we arguing 'hiphop' or 'rap'
cause i was talking about rap within hiphop. you are talking about hiphop
off to check wikipedia.
but anyway. isn't EVERYTHING derivative of something?
but poi is definitely juggling related.
no arguments accepted.
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
i'd agree with the wiki word for word.
word.
i think that the hiphop that exists in new york today is not hiphop in its 'original' form as you seem to think it is nor is it by any means 'pure'.
it too has been influenced by the spread of hiphop globally and has itself been influenced by the hiphop that travels through the boroughs.
ny hiphop today is a long way away from what hiphop was when it was born - it progressed.
how do you separate growth and progression from what you see as dilution?
by your definition, how can eminem possibly be hiphop?
he's white and from detroit, not black and from qb...
cole. x
i'd agree with the wiki word for word.
word.
i think that the hiphop that exists in new york today is not hiphop in its 'original' form as you seem to think it is nor is it by any means 'pure'.
it too has been influenced by the spread of hiphop globally and has itself been influenced by the hiphop that travels through the boroughs.
ny hiphop today is a long way away from what hiphop was when it was born - it progressed.
how do you separate growth and progression from what you see as dilution?
by your definition, how can eminem possibly be hiphop?
he's white and from detroit, not black and from qb...
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
just a bit more wiki info:
Origins of rap
Rapping began as a variation on the toasting found in reggae, funk and dub music, mixed with influences from radio DJs and playing the dozens. Also of influence were the works of The Last Poets and Gil Scott Heron, Bob Dylan's Subterranean Homesick Blues and Parliament. The original rappers, or MCs (from "Master of Ceremonies") would improvise rhymes over the beats created by the DJs. Early raps were frequently merely a sequence of boasts, or attempts to upstage the other MCs. See roots of rap music for earlier forms that also contributed to rap.
The first rap record was 1979's King Tim III by the Fatback Band (featuring the rapper King Tim III).
and:
The Fatback Band (later, Fatback) were a 1970s and '80s American funk band. They began recording in 1973 (see 1973 in music) with "Street Dance" and "Fatbackin' " (Perception Records) and then some singles on Event Records. Sales were slim until "Spanish Hustle" (1976, 1976 in music), which was a moderate hit. 1979's "King Tim III (Personality Jock)" is widely considered the first hip hop single.
so in fact hip hop is funk.
just a bit more wiki info:
Origins of rap
Rapping began as a variation on the toasting found in reggae, funk and dub music, mixed with influences from radio DJs and playing the dozens. Also of influence were the works of The Last Poets and Gil Scott Heron, Bob Dylan's Subterranean Homesick Blues and Parliament. The original rappers, or MCs (from "Master of Ceremonies") would improvise rhymes over the beats created by the DJs. Early raps were frequently merely a sequence of boasts, or attempts to upstage the other MCs. See roots of rap music for earlier forms that also contributed to rap.
The first rap record was 1979's King Tim III by the Fatback Band (featuring the rapper King Tim III).
and:
The Fatback Band (later, Fatback) were a 1970s and '80s American funk band. They began recording in 1973 (see 1973 in music) with "Street Dance" and "Fatbackin' " (Perception Records) and then some singles on Event Records. Sales were slim until "Spanish Hustle" (1976, 1976 in music), which was a moderate hit. 1979's "King Tim III (Personality Jock)" is widely considered the first hip hop single.
so in fact hip hop is funk.
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
incidentally, have either of you seen the lovely picture you get when you put poi in the wikipedia...?
here...
incidentally, have either of you seen the lovely picture you get when you put poi in the wikipedia...?
here...
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
No... Hip Hop CAME from funk. There's a difference.
And I do think that NY hip hop of today is different than it was back in the day. It has certainly progressed and adapted other influences.
And I was talking about the musical aspects of Hip Hop.
In terms of global Hip Hop influence, I still believe that the UK is a minor player in terms of relative size. I think there are 3 or 4 cities in the US that easily eclipse the entire country.
I also went to a Hip Hop festival in Sheffield with Lolli a while back and it was the cutest thing ever. It was eye opening in how "american" everything was trying to be. Everything was very second rate as well... except I was blown away by some photos of grafitti in a certain corner which were much better than the rest... until I saw it said "Photos we took while on our vacation in New York City"..
I'm not talking up New York in the elitest way I normally do. And I'm not that hip hop. (Reminds me of one time I saw KRS-1 with a "I am hip hop" TShirt.)
I've just never been impressed with UK hip hop. Heck, I couldn't even FIND hip hop in Edinburgh and I looked all summer (must not have known the secret knock or something)... I'd love to see some. Maybe next summer.
Now excuse me while I eat some yummy poi.
Non-Https Image Link
No... Hip Hop CAME from funk. There's a difference.
And I do think that NY hip hop of today is different than it was back in the day. It has certainly progressed and adapted other influences.
And I was talking about the musical aspects of Hip Hop.
In terms of global Hip Hop influence, I still believe that the UK is a minor player in terms of relative size. I think there are 3 or 4 cities in the US that easily eclipse the entire country.
I also went to a Hip Hop festival in Sheffield with Lolli a while back and it was the cutest thing ever. It was eye opening in how "american" everything was trying to be. Everything was very second rate as well... except I was blown away by some photos of grafitti in a certain corner which were much better than the rest... until I saw it said "Photos we took while on our vacation in New York City"..
I'm not talking up New York in the elitest way I normally do. And I'm not that hip hop. (Reminds me of one time I saw KRS-1 with a "I am hip hop" TShirt.)
I've just never been impressed with UK hip hop. Heck, I couldn't even FIND hip hop in Edinburgh and I looked all summer (must not have known the secret knock or something)... I'd love to see some. Maybe next summer.
Now excuse me while I eat some yummy poi.
Non-Https Image Link
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Oh... and Eminem IS black culture just as much as JayZ or Nas. Just cuz he's white don't make it any difference. He is one of the most influential artists in a predominantly black forum.
Oh... and Eminem IS black culture just as much as JayZ or Nas. Just cuz he's white don't make it any difference. He is one of the most influential artists in a predominantly black forum.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
ignorance of where a country's scene is, is not an excuse dude
no, edinburgh doesn't have that great a hiphop scene but comparing it with ny is like comparing jefferson city, missouri with manchester or london.
the uk has some of the best hiphop dj's the world has ever seen.
the uk b-boy championships are the biggest event of its kind in the world.
and if you've never seen good british graf then you simply haven't been looking.
and if you've never been banksy spotting in london, stick it in your diary and i'll take you on a tour
i like this site and this one.
but if you only want to talk about rap, then hiphop isn't what we're on about, and as we've said, ny doesn't 'own' rap, nor did it even originate there.
however, nyc said: "'Rap' has such a specific origin in the American Inner City because it is telling the story of the American Inner City Blacks. The cultures are so intertwined in a way that exists only in America because of culutral influences that exist only in America."
so my point about eminem is that since he is white and from a very different cultural background to those that 'originated' rap music, his inclusion in the hiphop scene constitutes no less of a dilution of the culture than uk rap music does.
further to that, and please stop me if i'm misunderstandamalising you, but it seems your argument is that the base precursors to 'being hiphop' are that "you're poor and you're american" then i don't agree with what hiphop culture is to you.
have you ever heard mos def's track 'rock n roll'?
on that he claims that black people invented rock and roll music and as such, any artist that produced rock and roll music after chuck berry had no soul and was just jumping on and diluting the style.
there are similar connotations in your argument i think.
and anyway, slick rick, one of the greatest mc's of all time, is british so ner
cole. x
ignorance of where a country's scene is, is not an excuse dude
no, edinburgh doesn't have that great a hiphop scene but comparing it with ny is like comparing jefferson city, missouri with manchester or london.
the uk has some of the best hiphop dj's the world has ever seen.
the uk b-boy championships are the biggest event of its kind in the world.
and if you've never seen good british graf then you simply haven't been looking.
and if you've never been banksy spotting in london, stick it in your diary and i'll take you on a tour
i like this site and this one.
but if you only want to talk about rap, then hiphop isn't what we're on about, and as we've said, ny doesn't 'own' rap, nor did it even originate there.
however, nyc said: "'Rap' has such a specific origin in the American Inner City because it is telling the story of the American Inner City Blacks. The cultures are so intertwined in a way that exists only in America because of culutral influences that exist only in America."
so my point about eminem is that since he is white and from a very different cultural background to those that 'originated' rap music, his inclusion in the hiphop scene constitutes no less of a dilution of the culture than uk rap music does.
further to that, and please stop me if i'm misunderstandamalising you, but it seems your argument is that the base precursors to 'being hiphop' are that "you're poor and you're american" then i don't agree with what hiphop culture is to you.
have you ever heard mos def's track 'rock n roll'?
on that he claims that black people invented rock and roll music and as such, any artist that produced rock and roll music after chuck berry had no soul and was just jumping on and diluting the style.
there are similar connotations in your argument i think.
and anyway, slick rick, one of the greatest mc's of all time, is british so ner
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
enthusiast
382 posts
Location: In Ger Land, India
enthusiast
382 posts
Location: In Ger Land, India
Posted:
What about this lovely website.
What about this lovely website.
Some things you have to see to believe, but
Some things you have to believe in to see.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
This was my initial point. I stand behind it.
For every UK Hip Hop element, I can name two American elements that are better. And so can you.
Written by: NYC
UK Hip Hop.
That's cute.
Kinda like US Soccer. Pat em' on the head and tell them good job and get them off the field before the big boys show up.
This was my initial point. I stand behind it.
For every UK Hip Hop element, I can name two American elements that are better. And so can you.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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