Forums > Social Chat > hypocrasy on the site

Posted: 8th Jan 2002
I think you make a well-articulated and interesting point. It is important to realize that we are altering and modifying a culturally important tradition.Thanks for bringing that up, I hadn't thought of what we do quite in that manner before...

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 9th Jan 2002
i completly agree with malcolm's point. i think we are giving poi a bit of ourselves, and in so doing, making it into something different. malcolm's analogy with music is absolutely spot on.my point in putting up the post was two fold: 1- getting people to realise that what we do comes from an established cultural tradition, and that it deserves some respect; 2- get people to think before they act as tho martial arts are divine and untouchable, and should only be delved into by the "devout", whislt poi is simply something u learn so u can spin glowsticks in a club.we all love performing poi - i'm just asking that we respect it as well.------------------Flame on!

May your staff spin fast and your poi always miss your balls.

Posted: 8th Jan 2002
As per my comment:"It all comes down to a matter of opinion and, in the end, is probobly not worth bickering about."I think most of us, admittedly my self included, get a little more adament about certain topics than is really neccesary, and don't really leave anyone too much room for their own opinions. I have been making an effort to correct this behavior in myself (though I do slip occasionally), hopefully others will make the same effort.------------------If you love something, set it on fire.

Jesus helps me trick people.

Posted: 8th Jan 2002
as some of you know i have had similar responses and conversations with maori people as 'the beard' and thinking i was talking to culturally sensitive people, raise this issue, to my shock many of our community didn't share a similar cultural sensitivity.not to affend thee, i warn thee this response could offend/upset/piss off/make some of you think i is stupid and quiet possibly you may think i am wanker.to suggest their is a difference between younger and older moari simplfys this issue and is an atempt to make the opinion which is dominate on this site acceptable. seeeing most of us are younger and far more enlighten than our older folk.some people within the maori culture (those generally who are interested in traditional 'ways') see similarties between what 'we' are doing but don't consider what 'we' do to be poi. poi is how they use "poi" traditionally not what we are doing. the real difference of opinion in maori culture comes from those who are interested in their traditions and those who have decided to leave there traditional or ethnic culture. some are angery about this, other have not the interest in the issue.as for changing the name, i think most people are of the opinion that its not necessary. like so many have said, we are adding to their traditional culture and they(maori) should respect us for that. We could however give some recognition to those who's name we have taken by sreaching out some maori sites on the web, and finding out the history and culture of the maori people.cheers daniel (excuse my professional spell checker)

Posted: 9th Jan 2002
Western society bastardises cultures left right and centre.Things evolve and names get used to represent something modern. Such as using the term poi. Im trying to think off the top of my head another daily example, but ive got a head cold and its nearly time to finish work..so im not gonna try hard :PWe've had this discussion many a time, and lets face it, the term isnt going to chamge, some people say ayres rock, some say uluru ....if it offends you or those u know, call them chains!

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

Posted: 9th Jan 2002
I don't know, maybe it is my insensitive side coming out, but I don't care if some people think this isn't poi. If they are offended by it well it is their problem not mine. I am not infringing on their personal rights, so they shouldn't infringe on mine.Whether we call it poi or "penguin" ( ) it is still the same thing. It is like Sun Microsystems saying that the big yellow hot thing must be called something else. (and from my understanding, doesn't poi translate simply to "ball"?)Sure it may not be "poi" in their sense of the word, but I am sure "sex" has different connotations to some people as well.A person's choice of culture (including those who decide not to follow tradition) should be respected. But that doesn't mean that traditions or cultures need to be tiptoed around. Many traditions fade, people who can't handle that are the ones who get offended, and as a result often try to restrict the development of other cultures.I think the key factor is that what we do _does_not_change_their_culture_. It can only lead to the development of ours.I hope my comments have not offended anyone, but times change and people just need to accept that.

Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut

Posted: 9th Jan 2002
Very interesting and well thought out points...Is it safe to say that Maori did not invent fire NOR did not invent fire spinning but DID refine it and incorporate it into a part of their culture?It is important to respect this culture's relationship with poi.I would be interested in hearing exactly what is offensive to the Maori people.I also wonder when and art form becomes public domain. [This message has been edited by NYC (edited 10 January 2002).]

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 9th Jan 2002
...and I'm wondering who these Meori people are...Sorry...just couldn't help myself... C

Posted: 9th Jan 2002
Hmmmm....and the attitude that the Maori invented this is any better? Or is this just over owning a name?My point, all forms of indigenous warriors have used something similar to poi in history.Bolas, while hit on the ground, are swung in a similar style and hail from Spain.Loose direct translation for bola is ball. Loose direct translation for poi (from Rythm of Life and Poi) is ball. There have been accounts of several African, South American, West Indian and Native American tribes using similar tools for many different reasons....from dance, weapons training, as a weapon, to smashing up food. Does this then mean that we are bastardizing all cultures? How about if I were to say that the art of graffitti bastardizes the integrity of the ancient wall murals in Pompeii or Egypt? Bungee jumping is based on a tribe that uses jumping off stick and twig platforms tethered by a vine rope as a right of passage for young boys, even to this day. And let's not even begin to discuss tatoo's, piercings, scarifications and body adornments used by hundreds of cultures for thousands of years as ritual markings, heirarchy symbols, familial identifiers and for medicinal or religious beliefs. Is popularization of this bastardization of so many societies? Same idea, different approach. At it's core the idea behind an art, since so many now believe that there are no fully original ideas...just presentations, is to take something that has been done and add to it, enhance it and further it, and if it becomes popular it creates a sub-culture. It is part of human evolution, to push limits and to change what already exists in order to make our own generational mark in the world. Yes, I agree, there needs to be a respect of the originalS (said this way because there is always more than one, and if any culture thinks they are the soul deviser of something then they need to hit the books, imho). Yet I think it is more important to own your personal version of the art with pride, and with humility. Do the best you can to represent what *you* do, and the subculture you are part of. Let the older set represent what they do and thier cultural beliefs.As for the use of the word, poi is not just a Maori word, it is found in several Polynesian cultures. In most it tends to come back to ball or something swung around (before it is bashed up and eaten in Hawaii's case). There are also no absolutes in language except that someone will always take offense. It'd be easier to shift the stars I think than to rename what we know as poi globally in order to make it politcally correct for a relative few. It seems to me that those who are easily offended by things like this seem to look at it from a very selfish, egotistical and closed minded perspective. It reminds me of the American-African (or whatever is PC) who, instead of standing up and owning his life and working to represent his beliefs he blames, judges and accuses the rape of a society on others instead of progressing forward (yes this really did happen to me, it was an interesting debate).These people become so consumed with anger and resentment over the fact that what they cherish and hold dear is no longer recognised and accepted as it once was that they choose to condemn others, hoping to reason on some non-exsistant moral high ground, instead of accepting that some people, especially newer generations, embrace change hungrily. They need to concentrate more on promoting themselves and teaching their culture instead of griping about the culture we have created.Do I think we are bastardizing the Maori in any way? Not a chance, because then I would be made to feel guilty for having piercings, tatoo's, bungee jumping, wearing modern corsettes and dancing the way I do. I would be made to feel guilty by people who are terrified of change. Do I respect historical and other cultures? Hell's yes. It is why I work in "re-enactment" settings. It is why I have read the "Rythm of Life and Poi". It is why I begged my family to allow me to have foreign exchange students when in school and why I watch Discovery Channel and travel and meet others as much as I can. And before I get slammed for not understanding because I am American, it is also why I hopped into a traditional Maori costume and swung thier poi at the ripe old age of 9 when we had an exchange student from NZ visit. Good point NYC about when art becomes public domain. My guess is, before any ideas are even put to paper. Simultaneous Creative Genious is what some of us dubbed it over thed winter show I was in, since it seemed to occur alot, where two people would have generally the same creative idea at about the same time. But then it goes back to taking that idea and making it your own.Fire is it's own culture, and within it are subcultures all their own...from hobbyist to performers, staffers to poi-ers. If you don't like it, then don't think about it. But it is here and nothing anyone says can change that.IMHO, of course.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...https://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 10 January 2002).]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 9th Jan 2002
Thanx Pele, you said what i was hoping I could say and raised points that elluded me!

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

Posted: 9th Jan 2002
At this point Sick PuPpy would like to state his agreement with Pele's exquisite ranting.------------------If you love something, set it on fire.

Jesus helps me trick people.

Posted: 9th Jan 2002
Ok. I can't stand it. I have to post to this topic. I never never never post to a board on my first day besides a "hi i am here letter". But, this topic is getting to me.So first let me state I fully admit to being a newbie both to this board and to fire arts. I am not however a newbie to cultural arguments. I was born Swiss/German/Jewish/Scotch/English/North Amercan Native. I was raised Fundamentalist Christian. And I have chosen a Unitarian-Universalist/Pagan/Taoist/Grottonian path for myself.IMHO: Any activity that extends the traditions/culture of a particular people without lessing it is good. So, people who call it poi, and try to adhere to at least the basics of the art are doing nothing but extending the art. Again IMHO.Thanks Majik------------------Around the pyre, a circle of thirteenThroughout these woods, ecstatic screamsI look deeply into your eyesI smell your hair, caress your thighsNow we'll make love by fire lightA blaze so high it lights the night"Type O Negative"

Around the pyre, a circle of thirteenThroughout these woods, ecstatic screamsI look deeply into your eyesI smell your hair, caress your thighsNow we'll make love by fire lightA blaze so high it lights the nightType O Negative

Posted: 9th Jan 2002
maybe the really big point everybody is missing here is, in traditional maori culture (a culture which is still alive today as apposed to a destoryed people who had their culture taken from them) poi aren't used to make the spinner or spinners look cool, join a social group and make new friends, and the other reasons we have all choosen this wonderful activity to pursue, poi is incorperated with singing and dance to tell stories about themselves and their past, maybe even their intended future(although i'm not sure about this).a chef uses a pot to help them make tasty food, if you take that pot change it some what and then use it as a neckilace, is it still a pot?, i think not, lets not confuse ourselves here. collectivily we have taken something and changed it to suit our needs and desires, (nothing wrong so far) so if 'everything is always changing, why not change the name to suit us'. oh it doesn't suit us to change a cool name like poi with all its ethnic tribal sounding mystic, does it, because we are doing something cool, outside the the 'mainstream', we're radical man, lets change the name, lets change the name, lets change the name.no lets stand on the few remaining beautiful flowers left cos it my damn right.and lets acknowledge today some cultures aren't changing at the same pace as western culture, nor do they wish or need to. don't beleive the hype people its allowing you to justify the killing of indigenious people all over the world and what they hold dear for the sake of your eclectic identiy.peace brothers and sister, stand in the other mans shoes you may even begin to like yourself more. go on try it.just a final point, a while back i made the suggestion we try and tell somew of our stories though this brillent medium (search spinning yarns) most of the responses were well you read them and make up your own mind. daniel is for the moment retiring, i can here you cheering from here.

Posted: 10th Jan 2002
And all the cultures that utilize tribal body adornments ritualistically are gone? And as I said, the bungee tribe, whoever and where ever they are from, are still kicking today. In fact I just watched a documentary about stuff like that on Discovery Channel the other day. What bubble do you live in that allows you to be so sheltered?In other words, you took the one historical example to suit your needs and disregarded everything else, along with "poi" not being exclusively a Maori word. I am sorry but it has no "cool, myst tribal sound" to me, or many I imagine. Sounds like boy and toy, nope, still not overwhelmingly cool. Oh but wait...you know...naming a twirling fire art form after a gross form of funky Hawaiian pudding is really mystic and cool (do a search for Poi and you can get the recipe in fact, since there are a few sites out there dedicated to the food Poi).In my statement I said that people who claim to attribute themselves to be the devisers of something (and get offended by it) tend to be tunnel visioned. You are serving to prove that IGTB. Thank you.(Hey Flash Fire....No kid gloves...Aren't you proud of me??? )Beard, if I were you I would also inform my friends that Poi is a food too. And one of my acquaintences from the West Indies say that it is a name for a ball of volcanic ash in Trinidad/Tobago. And someone once mentioned that it meant something in one of the Slavic languages as well. One word, many meanings, depending on the global location. Is is not a culturally specific word unless you are part of that culture.To your original question on the Martial Arts people on here, same thing. I have heard the same move be named different things according to the instructor or the style being taught. I recently took notice of this when the same move in Capoiera was named something totally different in Karate. Even staves have different names, and even reference points. I learned more than one became staves. But then I know people who learned that a short staff is a stave. A rope dart is very similar to a meteor is similar to bolo. No one is right or wrong, it is all different perspective. Therefore, I don't think anyone is a hypocrite. I think they look at it from their own perspectives, and (sometimes forcefully) express what they *know* to be true in their experience, forgetting that not everyone shares the same experience to draw a knowledge base from. ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...https://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 10 January 2002).]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 10th Jan 2002
I study philosophy and mythology as a hobby, a profession, and a passion...and let me say that this thread has just convinced a stubborn, bullheaded, scots-irish tempered staff twirler that i need to learn poi to further understand myself and my studies. and on we go! i couldn't help myself...had to throw this in: "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet." spin on, you lovely people...spin on.------------------"life begins between the night and the light."[This message has been edited by Teine (edited 10 January 2002).]

life begins between the night and the light.

Posted: 10th Jan 2002
all your words about the word 'poi' coming from different cultures like hawaii are wasted words. there seems to be a activity called 'poi' that maori people do, very similar to that of what we are doing, to think the great person or people who transformed traditional maori poi into comets and fire were thinking about an hawaii food is laughable so please let it go as an argument. there is a direct relationship however between the maori word poi, (and as you said "loosly translates as ball" but is far from saying 2+1 = 3, it is a translation, the best description we have possible between two very different cultures and languages.) and the sport/art/activity we now find ourselves doingi'm sorry but the discovery channel is no authrority on anything, its produced without question by people who have a definte cultureal position and world veiw (one of many), why i would delve into their veiw of the world and hold onto it as some thing special, i really have no idea, maybe i don't live in t.v. land. and as for quoting the rythm of life and poi, this is but one perspective within the maori culture. it is by no means reflective of it all so please again don't hold it up as if it is. it would appear we have differing sources of imformation, hence our different pionts of veiw. please chill, you are wrong so hop down off your self elevated platform, you look funny up there anyway.i am in no way suggesting the name of poi be changed, this as many have said will not happen, but lets realise that what we are doing isn't 'poi' its a fancy peice of one dimesional bullshit incomparsion to the real art perform by a people for centuries expressing something out of reach for most of us.peace baby peace, we should all be laughing together on this one. i am so sorry, i don't understand these collections of letters, igtb and the statment before has me completly lost.

Posted: 10th Jan 2002
wow, i wasnt expecting such a response to my post, but i'm glad to see that people feel strongly about the subject. it shows that people have some thought and respect for poi, and dont just take it for grantedi have numerous pirecings, no tattoos YET, i wear a celtic torque round my neck, drink jasmine tea, cook in a wok, and fence. When i spin glowsticks in a club, i'll describe what i'm doing as poi, even tho i know thats not strictly true. i accept the fact that my own culture develops by taking elements from others and changing those elements, for example my piercings, and pele's example of bungee jumping.if someone came up to me in a club an asked me to teach them how to do a butterfly, i would teach them, or at least try. i would NOT turn round and start shouting at them, saying that poi is part of a specific cultural tradition, and that you shouldnt just dabble in a part of it to look cool in a club. this is what seems to be happening as far as the people who complain about others wanting to learn a certain technique of a martial art.in hindsight, a thread with this tittle was bound to elicit a strong response. if im making a point aimed at anyone, it is not at the people who spin poi, whatever they call what they do, and whether or not they ignore the culture poi originates from (i myself, tend to ignore it). it is aimed at the people who spin poi in a "western" way (if u see my meaning), but complain about others dabbling in martial arts. put basicly, if u can spin glowsticks in a club to look cool, without having to learn about the culture that poi came from (and remember, try as you might to say that many many cultures have things similar to poi and that we are not linked to maori culture, we are all at a site called home of POI, not home of bolas, etc), then i can learn rope dart to look cool when i spin a long poi, or drunken form kung fu to look cool in a club when im dancing, or shaolin nine province eyebrow height staff form so i can add a couple of moves to my fire staff routine with out having to dedicate myself to kung fu and learn its ways. there is no difference.im simply trying to stop the difference in attitude. people seem to see poi as simply a perfomance art, something u'd do in a club, or an alternative to juggling, whilst martial arts ar euntouchable, except for the devout. i realise that once again ive rambled on. if u'll humour me for a few seconds longer, i'll try to sumarise my argument:1- the vast majority of us (including me) spin poi with litle or no regard to its origianl cultural significance. 2- we can easily accept and justfy this as our culture (or at least mine) develops by bastadising parts of other cultures (as pointed out above - sorry, cant remeber who sed this), eg bungee jumping, piercings3- some people are willing to bastardise poi, but refuse to accept that this will be done to martial arts.that is the hypocrisy i was pointing at. not that we spin glowsticks and call it poi. poi, as a culture (both in its traditional and its modern, ie us, sense) is in no way inferior to kung fu or karate.the general point im making is one which is supported by, and central to anthropological theory and thinking. if anyone is interested in this side of the discussion, i'd love to take the discussion that way, but rather than bore everyone else with anthropology, mail me.i apologise if ive offended anyone, it was not my intention. thank you everyone for showing that we do think about what we do.------------------Flame on!

May your staff spin fast and your poi always miss your balls.

Posted: 10th Jan 2002
Nobody's words are wasted. The demonstration that many different (though ancestrally related) peoples use a common word just goes to demonstrate that it is probably not a "proper noun", and as such does not necessarily have very very specific connotations. In the same way that woomera is a spear launcher (and hence a clever name for a rocket launching range ) poi is more likely a term applied to the "ball-on-a-string" weapon. Many asian names given to various different swords may sound fancy to a foreigner, but they mean "long sword" or "short sword" or something similar. The use of these terms is not sacred or specific to this culture but the martial art forms associated with them may be. I would say that a culturally significant dance associated with the poi might offend if used willy-nilly, but the tools are only tools.I associate the term poi with the tool, not the activity. I don't poi. I twirl/spin/swing/dance with/play with/use poi. In this sense the translation of the term poi to ball does make sense since the tool is (essentially) a ball attached to a string.

Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut

Posted: 10th Jan 2002
Beard, (and I am not emailing this to you because it is on topic and people seem interested ), I can see where you are coming from. I still think it is more of a difference of awareness. My son likes to immitate, alot. So we get him watching Jackie Chan and he thinks he is a mini-Chon Wang (Shanghai Noon), goes about kicking and such. Things is, he does it well. He doesn't know the culture behind it, probably thinks it came from the Wild West after that movie. If he pursues it, he will learn about the culture then. Anyway, he did this move in school (not on another kid) and I was asked where he learned it. The guy thought it was funny, said he did it well and I found out he is a Karate instructor. He wasn't upset that Noah didn't learn this through traditional methods but was happy that he was exposed to it at all. I think more people should take on this outlook, but those who are formally trained can be conditioned to think that if they had to work for where they are, then so should everyone else. Personally, I think it is all about exposure and trying it out, not who is more right, I agree. It also makes me think of how when we swing we can quite accidentally pick up a move, maybe someone else's sig move or whatever, and not fully know it. To think that everyone should train when it is relatively easy to figure some of these things out on your own, is back to that tunnel vision perspective. Especially now with so many professional martial artists blending styles and doing them in such a media blitzed way, ie: the movies aren't made for die hard kung fu fans anymore but for movie goers at large, the sub-cultures are changing right before everyone's eyes. Whether the purists like it or not, martial arts are much more accessible to the at home public which can then emulate them readily, no formal training or naming need be required. Besides, what do you need a class for when there are cardio-kung fu video's out! Oh and IGTB, one last thing. If you read the possibly theories of where our form of spinning comes from, the food does work. Because of the way the food was made (Swing around the roots tied to strings and smash them into rocks...turned into a dance by women) it is easily translated into what we do. It is by no means as cool as Maori, but a very real possibility. Study first, argue later....it's a good philosophy. ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...https://www.pyromorph.com

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 10th Jan 2002
*stands back and bows in deference to his learned colleague*

May your staff spin fast and your poi always miss your balls.

Posted: 10th Jan 2002
All I can say after reading this thread is WOW!After reading all of this I seriously think that you could start a class on "cultural significance of modern societies influence on traditional tribal art forms"------------------Blessings to all, Peter "In motion, move like a thundering wave. When still, be like a mountain.Rising up, be like a monkey. Land swiftly and lightly like a bird. Be steadylike a rooster on one leg. One's stance is as firm as a pine tree, yetexpresses motion. Spin swiftly and circularly like a wheel. Bend and flexlike a bow. Waft gracefully like a leaf in the wind. Sink like a heavy pieceof metal. Prey like a watchful, gliding eagle. Accelerate like a gusty wind." Wushu Proverb

Blessings to all,
Peter
When you find yourself in the company of a halfling and an ill-tempered Dragon, remember, you do not have to outrun the Dragon ...you just have to outrun the halfling.

Posted: 11th Jan 2002
I don't feel I'm disrespecting any culture when I do fire twirling. I have been told by young maoris that they think I'm not disrespectful either. If I went around claiming to be doing a maori art, it would be wrong and I don't do that or intend to.I use the poi to describe the tools of my art and in no way intend offence by it. For simplicities sake it's easier to say poi than describe items made of chain, wick, fishing swivels, glow sticks, shoelaces, tennis balls, colourful fur, ribbons and whatever else.I freely apologise to anyone who feels offended by my use of the word poi, and will stop using it if it is made clear to me that it is the most culturally inappropriate thing to do.

UYI OLDSKOOL

Posted: 12th Jan 2002
i reread my post and noticed the grins may have made me sound sarcastic. i intended them as enthusiasm. that said...the interest has to start somewhere, whether it be related or no...it has to be somewhere.------------------"life begins between the night and the light."

life begins between the night and the light.

Posted: 13th Jan 2002
we are doing to poi the same thing that Bruce Lee did to martial arts. Bruce laughed at people who thought that their one form of martial art was better than all others. And he scoffed at people who thought a martial art could not evolve and change because it was "traditional". He took ideas from all over the world, figured out what the best parts were from all of them and made what suited him his own. He incorperated everything from american boxing to traditional kung fu. We are doing the same thing to poi. Sure it has a root in maori society (and under different names in other societies), but we have taken it and added to it what each of us think its good and made it our own. I have added elements of martial arts and break dancing to my style. I call it poi sometimes, and sometimes I call it kung fu. doesn't realy matter, it is just a name. We could call all this wu shu kung fu, because it has elements of that in it. We could call it dancing or call it whatever, but when someone says "poi", I think we all know they are talking about swinging stuff, and that it what is important...communication. (and having a good word for the internet search engines, which is the main reason we should all tell people that it is "poi" )

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 24th Jan 2002
just to keep this going abit longer!poi meaning ball?comet poi = comet ball, is a comet a ball, does a ball look like a comet?when (our swinging fire toys) are swung do they look like fire balls, do fire balls look like fire swinging toys?this sounds like oxymorronic kinda stuff to me, it is not an accurate reflection of this thing we love to do.if our poi looked anything like poi i mean balls then i think it wouldn't be as popular as it is and hence our attraction to them. it is because our swinging toys transform into comets that we love them. do you like this transformation in yourself, from ball to comet, if so why not be cool and remain a comet instead of reverting back to a ball all the time. or are you just covering your arses

Posted: 24th Jan 2002
just to keep this going abit longer!poi meaning ball?comet poi = comet ball, is a comet a ball, does a ball look like a comet?when (our swinging fire toys) are swung do they look like fire balls, do fire balls look like fire swinging toys?this sounds like oxymorronic kinda stuff to me, it is not an accurate reflection of this thing we love to do.if our poi looked anything like poi i mean balls then i think it wouldn't be as popular as it is and hence our attraction to them. it is because our swinging toys transform into comets that we love them. do you like this transformation in yourself, from ball to comet, if so why not be cool and remain a comet instead of reverting back to a ball all the time. or are you just covering your arses

Posted: 24th Jan 2002
just to keep this going abit longer!poi meaning ball?comet poi = comet ball, is a comet a ball, does a ball look like a comet?when (our swinging fire toys) are swung do they look like fire balls, do fire balls look like fire swinging toys?this sounds like oxymorronic kinda stuff to me, it is not an accurate reflection of this thing we love to do.if our poi looked anything like poi i mean balls then i think it wouldn't be as popular as it is and hence our attraction to them. it is because our swinging toys transform into comets that we love them. do you like this transformation in yourself, from ball to comet, if so why not be cool and remain a comet instead of reverting back to a ball all the time. or are you just covering your arses

Posted: 24th Jan 2002
just to keep this going abit longer!poi meaning ball?comet poi = comet ball, is a comet a ball, does a ball look like a comet?when (our swinging fire toys) are swung do they look like fire balls, do fire balls look like fire swinging toys?this sounds like oxymorronic kinda stuff to me, it is not an accurate reflection of this thing we love to do.if our poi looked anything like poi i mean balls then i think it wouldn't be as popular as it is and hence our attraction to them. it is because our swinging toys transform into comets that we love them. do you like this transformation in yourself, from ball to comet, if so why not be cool and remain a comet instead of reverting back to a ball all the time. or are you just covering your arses

Posted: 24th Jan 2002
itsgottab - didn't get that, can you repeat it? (jk)Comets are because of the tails aren't they? Mine don't have tails.A stick or a staff is still a stick or a staff. The names aren't chosen because they are cool. They are descriptive, and named after the traditional tool, still doesn't mean that the use is the same.

Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut

Posted: 24th Jan 2002
Drat! I always read the good posts after everyone has said everything I wanted to say. Curses! Foiled again!

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...