Forums > Social Chat > So What ????

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
This probably won't help much, since I'm not too good at getting my point across just using text but:It shouldn't matter what you look like as long as you're good at what you do.Given the choice, I'd much prefer to watch the person who put on a better show, regardless of what they looked like.If you want to try for a career in fire twirling, then go for it, dont listen to anything people have to say (unless it's encouragement ).

But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
"beauty" is so subjective...I can't think of anything more beuatiful than the glow of the flames on a passion-filled fire dancer regardless of what they see when they look at themselves in a mirror... "Shine On" beautiful one - as so often you have told us all to... you *will* be a performer if that is your dream...

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
All I have to say is, it takes a special person to give birth to and raise a little blue glowstick. Anyone else would have just tossed it away and not cared for it, but you, you're special. Beauty is from within, let it translate through your spinning and you can be more beautiful then any beauty-pagent winning bimbo in the world. LOL, No pity for the majority.(KMFDM) Eric

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Beauty IS only skin deep. Believe me; I skin models alive for a hobby and they look MINGIN' underneath!Seriously - I may be new to the fire thang but it seems that the person who made this comment has probably never seen a proper fire performance and therefore does not know that the audience focus is not on the size of the performers arse or the way she giggles and bats her eyelids but on the whole fluidity and seamless motion of the performer and their medium. Personally, I'm so transfixed by the fire that I rapidly become unaware of the performer writhing and spinning within the circle of fire (even if they are daubed from head to toe in UV paint!)And just to finish - I hope this person wasn't someone you consider to be a good friend; a good friend should never make a comment that would damage your self esteem like that!------------------"We are all of us in the gutter but some of us are looking up at the stars."

---------------------With a bit of luck, his life was ruined; always thinking that just behind some narrow door, in his favourite bars, men in red woolen suits are getting incredible kicks from things he'll never know.

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Cassandra,don't listen. there's many reasons why that comment was made, like she may have been trying to make you not raise your hopes too much. Whatever, don't listen because it doesn't matter.Anyway, you don't want to work for anyone hiring a fire performer on looks because they obviously don't get it (it being fire performing and life in general!). The best things about a fire performance is the dance, and that's a lot about how the flames flow around you, not how you look.It's all in the eye of the beholder.I have a big nose, it doesn't affect my twirling (however if it was longer you could do some interesting wraps!).Dom

We're nothing but the nerds they think we are

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Don't be sad Cassandra You are beautiful inside. I am sure you are beautiful outside too, but are just being paranoid now that someone has made a spiteful comment.Everyone has insecurites about their looks. I don't think there are many people who can honestly say 'damn, I'm a sexy mutha' and really believe it. It is horrid to put others down, just because they're not your idea of 'pretty'.Your friend is a mean old trout.I'm sure you'll be a great performer one day, with your name in lights and the crowd screaming your name...In the mean time, try not to let your friend's comments affect you. She is probably just jealous of your skills as an artist.I don't think it matters what the person in the circle of fire looks like, it is what they are DOING and the energy and passion that they do it with that counts.Sending you happy vibes,Princess xox((((((((cassandra))))))))

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Hey Cass, Beauty is more than just the physical schmysical!!!Esentially it all comes down the each individuals perspective - if you sign-up for 'societies' version of beauty(which can be difficult not to when it's in yer face 24/7) then we've all gotta look like gods and godesses!! And with poi, it's the artists expression and ability that makes it beautiful.Simple truth I find is be true to yourself and everything you seek will be on your path!Anyway, when you've mastered your underwater spinning whose gonna see ya!! M:-)~Spin that fire babe.[This message has been edited by Marlboro (edited 04 October 2001).]

We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Hey Cassandra,I was a scrawny boy but put on about 35 kilograms in 10 months after the birth of my boy (I feel it's compulsory for a dad to have a beer gut ). Since then I've felt uncomfortable about my weight when I've performed. I used to go shirt off and now I feel a little self conscious when doing that.BUT....In the end, who gives a shit. Some of the most attractive girls I know are "rounded" at the edges. It don't matter, you come across as a very tender and caring person. This, I'm sure, projects more beauty than any snotty 'babe'. There'll always be some smart arse willing to insult but that'll be because they are miserable or insecure them selves on the inside. Screw 'em. They'll get their come upance one way or another.There's a Hong Kong martial arts actor called Samo Hung. He came from the same background as Jackie Chan and can do incredible gymnastic fighting routines. Thing is, he's quite plump. He can't scale walls like Jackie but his flipping and acrobatics are better than Jackie's (IMHO). The point is this. Samo impressed me more because he didn't let his size or shape impact his determination to be in martial arts films.As bec said "Shine on".

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Hey beautiful people , wow, thank you for the support really !!!! As I said, the personnal pain these kind of sentences may cause is "my" problem and I did not mean to sound self-pitying or fishing for support. Thank you with all my heart anyway.Bovril monkey, I actually don't really intend to make a career in fire dancing since I am a newbie still (only 5 months of spinning...) and would never pretend to perform for money for now and for quite some time.I know a career in fire twirling or any art form is really tough and am not underestimating the amount of work and talent it represents. It was more of a dream/joke sentence I said. But who knows... Myst, our kid takes after his father : it is cute, straightforward, slightly hot-tempered , good hearted though he tries to hide it,and allready hitting on all the female glowstix he meets ... You rock Jangla, Dom, Fire princess... truth is that the mean old trout who made this comment is my own mother... I don't really know why she says such things . Anyway... it is a bit innapropriate to spread around this thread and board the bitter marmelade of some of my private life . And big noses look sexy by the way Dom ... look at Cyrano De bergerac (ever heard of him?) one of the most attractive characters of French litterature !!!Marlboro : underwater fire twirling is even worse since you have to do it in Bathing suit ... my ultimate nightmare. not giving up though.Bec, Bezerker ... love you guys !!! Never heard of this Samo guy, but just wondering if you don't agree with the following : men who have a performer carrier (actor, martial art ...) are expected to have a personnality and nice touch of charm regardless of the exact figure, they are expected to be original too , women performers are often expected to be sexy / beautiful and fit in certain schales of plastique beauty.... Isn't that so ?What you say about performing though makes sense and is close to how I feel. Dom, you are so right... but does truth reflect what you say, what we all seem to think or at least say here ? Is the small world of fire artists that way ? there is a huge difference between amateurs who can look great allthough not the outside most beautiful ones and pretty much be however they want to be and pros who have to meet the customer's expectations.... Just wondering what your personal experiences may be...Much loveShine onCassandra

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
I will say this: the very best firedancers I've seen (all women, and all professional fire-performers, btw), have extremely fit bodies. They're beautiful by any measure (as long as you don't mind extensive piercings and tattoos). Now, are they the best because they have fit bodies, or do they have fit bodies because they have worked hard enough to be the best? Probably the latter. They probably are genetically inclined to be slim, but I know they work really hard at it.I suppose some people are more interested in what the performer looks like than the performer's talent (cough, Britney Spears, cough), but I want to see what your chops are.[This message has been edited by adamrice (edited 04 October 2001).]

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Hey Cassandra,"men who have a performer carrier (actor, martial art ...) are expected to have a personnality and nice touch of charm regardless of the exact figure, they are expected to be original too , women performers are often expected to be sexy / beautiful and fit in certain schales of plastique beauty.... Isn't that so ?"To a certain degree I agree with that but again, what is sexy/beautiful?Sure we are being bombarded with constant 'plastiC beauty' from mainstream media, movie and music artists and I won't say that I don't find a lot of these 'perfect 10' type girls pretty attractive BUT there's a lot of scope there. I find girls in general attractive. I'm sure you know the film Betty Blue 37.2 Degrees in the Shade (a french art house film). The lead actress in that film (Beatrice Dalle I think her name is) has been described as ugly by a lot of people I know but yet some of my friends (myself included) think she's VERY sexy (bucked teeth with gaps in between included).I'm rambling again. Yes we are having thin, plastic beauty thrust in our faces constantly but ultimately (as discussed in whole other thread) reality is what you make of it. Have confidence in your self as being beautiful and don't take this crap to heart.

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
anyone who would say something like that to you while you are sharing some of your aspiratins with them is just jealous, as they don't have a passion for aything like your passion for fire... they must be dealing with their own insecurities and issues....and like jangla said i hope you don't really call this person a friend, if they where they would not have made you feel that way...it's whats inside that really counts.

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
There are those is our society that when they hear someone excited about an idea, thier first instinct is to put that person down and throw a negative vibe on to the situation. They do this to make themselves fell better about their crap filled lives. This sounds like the type person you were talking to. Ignor these people, they suck the energy from you and make you waiste your energy being upset. That person saw the energy you were useing to describe your idea and the excitement you had for it, made one comment, and then took joy watching you crumble as they burst your bubble. It takes alot of enegy to be angery. Not to mention it wastes your time. This person is also the same person that if they stood in the middle of a football field with 15 other people and a bird flow over head, that bird would crap on them . Swing poi, be happy, not worries. You've given this person too much of your energy already. ------------------Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with "normal" people.

Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with normal people.

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
In a black and white way of looking at things, there are 2 different types of people who'll watch/hire fire performers:Mr Stringfellow - sexist, womanising, and only interested in superficiality. He wants to see stereotypically ‘beautiful’ women perform. Therefore they can be the worst spinners, but as all he’s watching is their tits, he doesn’t care.Mr. Eavis – good natured, thoughtful, unconventional. He wants to see people enjoying themselves and doing what they love, so anyone can come down to his farm and spin whatever, whenever. If he wants to hire performers he’ll choose a group of people who love what they do and put love and effort into a performance.There’s the in-between people as well and those that lack the particular imagination and life to enjoy and appreciate someone else art form. A prime example happened last Saturday at a club, some drunken moron came up to me as I was spinning my beaming poi and said “That’s easy! I’d only be impressed if you could do it with fire!” I gave him my poi, and after a couple of attempts he walked away silently, and very bruised (those things can hurt!). Even once he’d realised it was harder than it looked he couldn’t bring himself to see or admit that it was a skill to be appreciated.Also parents, especially mothers, are weird creatures, so don’t try to understand them too much, you’ll get a headache!Dom

We're nothing but the nerds they think we are

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
cassandra is beautiful!! trust me.but her personality alone and her great outlook on life is her best asset.Girl you have nothing to worry about. Your beauty will channel into your proformance. And the crowd will be mesmorized and shower you with money, praise, and the occasional loose piece of underware (which you can throw back)Superman------------------"When a Man Lies He Murders Some Part of the World These Are the PaleDeaths Which Men Miscall Their Lives All this I Cannot Bear to Witness Any Longer Cannot the Kingdom of Salvation Take Me Home"

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.


- Mark Twain

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Few of us know what Cassandra actually looks like, maybe a photo will help solve the cassandra specific discussion, or next time I'm in Paris I'll keep my eye out for Poi-ers!Everyone is beautiful.Dom------------------Peace, Love, Unity and Respect

We're nothing but the nerds they think we are

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Hey cass, you know what I would do... go up to that girl and go...
Non-Https Image Link
Serriously though, I can relate to this subject, guys in high school used to say that i wasnt pretty all the time, they used to make fun of me and call me names,all the girls were prettier then me and they thought that they were so much better then me.and you know that was the drive i needed because I proved them wrong when now i have a better job then all of them a beter life then most of them and a better looking boyfriend then all of them. I knew that i wasnt ugly,Now when I walk anywhere and i see guys from high school they look at me different because I have a good looking 6'4" guy on my arm.But the point to my story is, you cant let anyone make you feel like that. Your real friends accept you for who you are not what you look like. I had a friend that told me that I would never get anywhere because i am ugly,and you know, i look at her now and she has the worst life that anyone can ever have.Just thought I'd share my story hope it helps some . Keep and keep your passion for spinnin'no matter what!--Erica____________________"come with me to a land of fantasy,take my hand down into techno wonderland."[This message has been edited by MiSsFrOg19 (edited 04 October 2001).]

Its not easy being green....

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Cassandra.Sorry to hear taht someone you count as a friend would say that to you. In my experience I find that making them feel as naive as they appear to be works fairly well.What I would do is this:1, Hand them my poi (on fire or not)2, Say in a voice dripping with sarcasm "Go on. Your so damn goodlooking.You must be good at it.3, Laugh loudly as they hit/burn themselves.4, take back poi and show them how its done.Don't worry they deserve it!! Yours and everyonesSam[This message has been edited by FirePoi-boy (edited 04 October 2001).]

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
I don't mean to go against the current, but apearance is an issue when hiring. Not only do they have to watch the fire twirling, but the performer as well. If you do not fit the look they're expecting than they may not hire. I am not saying it's a definite, but it's a possibility. I've seen many skill performers (juggling, spinning, etc) and the women are rarely round. I'm not saying that they're skinny-Minnies, some are hippy-busty (hour-glassed) but the mid-curve goes in, not out. There's a public perception that goes with this and if you're to work with the public then you have to at least acknowledge this.This sounds rude, but we all know that this is an issue. It's why actors are predominatly thin and not round. There's a few that break through but if you look at the majority, especially women, they're leaning towards the thin side.If this is more an issue of the face then I think that's less important. Between makeup and distance it's less noticed.Sorry for sounding rude, but I'm not known for my tact. I'm merely adding my response to your question.

quote:

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noone actually ever told me personnaly yet "please don't spin, your ugliness ruins the landscape" ... or some crap like that. But truth is this subject is a touchy one for me and I want to know the opinion you people have...

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------------------"Except for that Mrs. Lincoln, How did you like the play?"Pyromorph - Let the fire change you

FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Uh, oh...Here goes Charles again, disgreeing with Pele's other half...W'Boy, I agree partially with what you are saying, int hat appearance is important, however it is not the size or shape that is important, it's the overall effect.A 'pretty girl' (said very very loosely) with messy hair, stained clothing, who stinks of body odour, chews gum and swears every second word will never be hired for more than one performance.A 'homely girl' (once again not really the right term) with a great, professional looking costume, that fits well, good hair, a nice smile, good skin, well presented with a great verbal style and infectuious nature will always win over the unprofessional 'models'.The show is hardly ever not centred around someone being attractive, but if they are a turnoff - smell, hygiene, bad makeup, foulmouthed etc, then they won't get any future gigs.I know of several girls who are nowhere near the 'ideal' size or shape but who take a lot of care in their clothing, skin and make-up, and have great personalities. I find these types of girls far more attractive on stage or in front of a crowd (or at a party) than an 'ideal' girl with a nasty temperament and lack of esteem.------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
I think it all has to do with being comfortable in your own skin. I have friends who perform all kinds of things including poi who do not fit the sterotypical 'beautiful' definition. But they are truly comfortable and confident with themselves and their abilities and emit a beauty that exceeds mere physical beauty.[This message has been edited by Neeko (edited 04 October 2001).]

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Morning Cassandra,It sounds to me that your mother was just not thinking of the implications of what she said. Has she ever seen you twirl? She might not know what twirling is all about. It might just be that she is thinking of the compeditive nature of show business... Whatever the reason, slide the comment off like water off a duck's back. You are beautiful - just look at all the posts in this thread if you don't believe me. I used to have a fashion teacher say "there are no perfect bodies" and she's designed and altered clothing for a lot of people.'Shine on'Sabine

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Hey my lovely sister. Let me tell you a few thins on the professional side and the female side, not to mention from someone who is not "conventionally shaped".I have an hour glass...and am by no means thin, and I am on the flip scale, I am tall, nor am I overly athletic of build. I have what I concider average features except my eyes and my legs. People still pay to see me. My last show was standing room only and I got a few freaky stalkers from it.Here is my advice, know your good features and play on them. Accent the good, dress down what you feel are your weaknesses. I have strong shoulders, chest and legs...I play them up. And I play down the middle.I accent my eyes and then make eye contact with my audience. I know I have that hippy swagger so I use it, since I have breeding hips for triplets!My point is, know your strengths, be confident (and if you can't be learn to pretend...I do)...confidence is very sexy and beautiful. Presention is everything...the whole package. Move like you mean, spin as you love it and all of that will show....and through that even those parts you don't like will be endearing and will become beautiful, not only to your audience but to you for a time as well. And all the while, work on what you don't like on the side.I know statements like beauty isn't everything and such are nice, but sometimes when feeling down, they are little comfort, at least to me. I thought I might give the perspective of someone who has been there.Much love to you lovely one.... ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...https://www.pyromorph.com

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 4th Oct 2001
I think flow and style and grace (yeah I know - two ands :P) mean a shitload more than looks. I've seen a few really stereotypically good looking girls who really dont have much style..and then I've seen some 'rounded' girls who flow really nicely and mesmorise onlookers...I think it depends on what you want. I actually think that if you can dance EXACTLY how you want to and get paid, thats fine, but if you have to change the way you dance to fit the performance, then you are compromising your artistic expression. I think its in the latter option, that you might come into problems unless you are stereotypically good looking...Because ppl will be putting their expectations of professional firetwirling on you.erm - if this doesnt make sense, mail me - or I'll try to re-write it Josh

Posted: 4th Oct 2001
Cassandra,I think you are beautiful.I promised I wouldn't say it a third time but here you made me into a liar.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
Amen to both Charles and Pele. Attitude and presentation go a long way. PWB's politically incorrect point has some validity--we are judged on our looks, and a promoter might very well judge a would-be performer on looks. But as Pele says, you can use that to your advantage.Confidence is very sexy.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Posted: 3rd Oct 2001
I agree that still to a lot of people looks do matter, especially when it comes to entertaining a crowd of people!But you can have all the appealing physical appearance in the world, but it wont stop you getting "boo'ed off" if you cannot provide the goods that theyve come to see!In the end, what the audience appreciates is the passion and effort that shine through when you perform, not your looks.... look at half the famous opera entertainers...cant tell me theyre taut and pretty princesses! But they steal the stage, and the audience's hearts with their ability and presence.------------------ - Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -https://wickeffect.cjb.net

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

Posted: 4th Oct 2001
Since people may be thinking that Cassandra is possibly somewhat homely looking, I just have to say that from the pictures that I have seen of her, she is drop dead gorgeous. I don't just mean that she is pretty, I mean she is really, *really* pretty. Maybe the pictures hide some of her imperfections, but they can only hide so much. She is definitely beaming with beauty, and she always has a huge smile on her face. Her body seems such a perfect match for her inter beauty. It's just heavenly...I'd imagine that Cassandra's friend was joking around? but even so, that's a very stupid thing to joke about. Girls are always very sensitive about their looks, no matter how beautiful they are. Even if they are as beautiful as Cassandra As far as my take on the performing/beauty thing goes. If the poi swinger sucks, then she'd better be pretty damn attractive otherwise she has nothing going for her act at all, but if she's a good performer, then I could really care less about her physical appearance. I really wouldn't want to be in the shoes of the attractive poi swinger that sucks. Pitiful

Posted: 4th Oct 2001
When you see modles spinning and becomming interesting instead of the ugly on the inside people they are; then it is time to worry, untill then....keep spinnig beautifulShadowblade loves ya all you beautiful people

Posted: 4th Oct 2001
I can't even begin to express how uncomfortable some of the nice things being directly said to me here make me feel. I did not mean this thread to be a "fishing fo compliments" thread , really , and i am speechless and even slightly angry at myself for that(me twisted little French frog )because the bottom line is that I know I have nothing to cry about : two legs, two arms , two... and a body that is round, probably not always attractive but definitely love-worthy cause I can do so many great things with it (firedancing, aikido, hugging friends ... )Yet it would be rude not to thank you all for the great support and kindness. WOuld hug you all in person if I could !Adam, I am a huge britney Spears fan and admire her unique talent, don't understand what's wrong with her j/kSuperman, being showered by men's underwear isn't my idea of success especially if they attend the performance after a long day at work ....Dom, please make sure you drop me a line when you come to Paris next time.Miss frog, if I showed my butt to my mum I'm not sure she'd be impressed cause she's seen it more than once Thank you for the support and sharing your experience though WB... as always I like the fact that you say what you think ! I pretty much agree with what you say allthough it may sound sad. There is a difference between amateur performance (even high quality amateur) and actual professional performance. Can't avoid that. And there is a difference if you twirl for firedancers or for complete "virgins" to the art. Both won't look at the same things I guess.Pele, sweet sister, thank you for the perspective. I think you've got a big point here, one has to know his good and bad features. I'll learn about mine with time I guess. Oh and again, lucky you, I hope I'll find myself such a clever Whipping boy one day This confidence issue plays a big role I'm sure cause it shows in the body language which is also an expression of your personnality and state of mind... mm... I'll keep that in mind.Josh, yes I fully understand what you mean and very much think so. I am anyway not at all pushing to become a professional in the future whatsoever(I am a newbie for the moment !!!) and to keep firedancing as one of my passions is completely fine with me rather than compromising in any way...Much loveShine onCassandra[This message has been edited by cassandra (edited 04 October 2001).]

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"