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flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
[image]https://photos.offline.org.uk/showpic.php?picid=t3534[/image]

Of course you'd probably call them something else, because literally everyone in your area uses them already, kids, babies, your mate dave and even your gran's 3 legged artheritic dog has a set and can spin btb 7 beat weave with them. The only reason you don't spin them is because you grew out of them years ago and think they're crap. But personally, i've never seen any before, so until anyone else says otherwise i'll call them flids

There seems to be this trend at the moment for stupidly large monkey fist wicks (*ahem* you know who you are), which are pretty cool, but for my next set I wanted some which are big, but not so big and heavy that I only ever use them as a novelty and not on a daily basis. My previous set were some 2 inch cathedral heads bought from homeofpoi, which have served me admirably, so I decided to go one step further and have 2.5 inch cathedrals. The second thing that I wanted was to be able to do bareskin wraps with them, which means no metal parts exposed (and i don't care what anyone else says about not getting burnt from hot metal, cause I melt from the slightest touch). I don't like to have to get dressed up for spinning, other than denim trousers and a cotton tshirt, so I looked for a way to make them metal free.

When in brighton this summer I had a play with weasel boy's snakes, which were extremely exhilerating to use to say the least (like loosing my fire poi virginity all over again ), but i disliked the fact that with full length snakes you can't wrap them around your hand mid spin to shorten the length during buzzsaw moves. Then I played with Lolli's snakes, which are half snakes, half chain, so buzzsaw is possible. The thing i liked the most was that in the form of a knot on the end she had made the wick out of the rope, meaning no metal parts. I guess the next step up from this would be to make a monkey fist version of Lolli's snakes, but wanting to be different i decided to stick with cathedrals. Monkey fists do look cool, but i'm a sucker for tradition and really liked my current set of cathedrals.

Thus when i got to 1000 posts I decided to make a HoP contribution in the form of 12 feet of 2.5inch wick, 8 foot of 1cm rope and a spool of kevlar thread. The basic design is 2.5inch cathedral heads with rope threaded through the middle with a knot at either end to secure, then rope going half way up and chain for the rest. For extra security and compression in the abscence of a bolt/washer, the cathedrals have kelvar thread sewn through them and pulled tight and the knots a sewn together with extra thread.

This way I can still do inner hyperloops on ball chain, and after the first few minutes of the burn when the rope has gone out by the cathedral still going I can do bareskin arm wraps on the rope with only singhed hairs as the result, not burns and scars. Because the cathedrals burn a lot longer than the rope, the rope will start to fall appart a lot quicker, but, because it is seperate I can replace it without replacing the head. Because there is no metal, the weight of them is only 25% more than my previous set of 2inch cathedrals, so when i spin them i won't feel like my arms are falling off!

I was so happy with the first that i decided to take pictures whilst making the second and put them on the internet So, if you're sitting comfortably, happen to have the day free, a few rolls of kevlar and set of tools handy then lets begin.

(N.B. This board doesn't allow more than a few pictures, so to see all the steps with pictures click here: https://www.fire-chains.com/projects/flids.php
)

Recipe:

12 feet of 2.5 inch kevlar
8 feet of 1cm kevlar rope
1 spool of kevlar thread
2 handles
2 lengths of 18cm chain (i used ball, but you could use any)

[image]https://photos.offline.org.uk/showpic.php?picid=t3521[/image]

Tools:

a long needle
a set of needle nose pliers
sharp pair of scissors
pva glue

Method:

Cut the kevlar material into 2 6 foot pieces. To make one poi follow these helpful instructions

1) Take one of the pieces of kevlar material and cut it in half. Attach the handles to the chain and set aside.

2) Put one of the pieces of kevlar on top of the other, overlapping about 80% of the width and sew together using 3 or 4 tacks of thread.

3) Put the needle in the centre of the wick and start to build a nice and tight cathedral wick (see animation on HoP if unsure), making sure to extend the needle as you go so it is always poking through. If you don't use the needle now and try to push it through later it will be very hard to line it up.

4) Build the wick all the way up

5) Cut the excess wick off, and fold the top under like you did at the bottom, so no frayed edges are showing.

6) Wiggle the needle around inside the wick, trying to enlargen the hole as much as possible.

7) Begin to unfold the wick again, keeping the needle in, but as you do each fold and take it off the needle, stick the pliers in the kneedle hole and pull them appart to widden the hole, without breaking any threads.

8) Keep going till you've gotten to the end.

9) Now push the end of one of the pieces of rope through the hole in the stiched together part. You will need to use the pliers to open the hole as much as possible without breaking any threads, and a bit of patience.

10) Start to rebuild the cathedral head, threading the rope through as you go. The top of the wick will take some figuring out, but i'll leave that to you I'd hope that if you're coordinated to be spinning fire you can figure out how.

11) Sew kevlar thread through each of the corners of the wick, but don't tie till you've done them all, or else it will go lop sided

12) Compress the wick down and tie up the threads, cutting off the excess with scissors. Tie a double knot at the bottom of the wick, and a single knot at the top:

13) Pour yourself a drink, you deserve it

14) Now take the long piece of rope and fold it round the end of the chain and pull it down to the length required, tieing another knot at the top of the wick. Use kevlar thread to sew up the knots and put some PVA glue on the ends of the rope to stop them from fraying

15) Repeat, and you have flids!

(This board doesn't allow more than a few pictures, so to see all the steps with pictures click here: https://www.fire-chains.com/projects/flids.php
)

Have fun!

Motaddict
666 posts
Location: Netherlands


Posted:
Looks pretty cool flid, I'd say you get some meaty meaty flames from them. Nice one......

Come forth and thou shalt win enternal happiness. but he came fifth so he won an electric toatser.


Bender_the_OffenderGOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
fantastic idea, oh flidmeister!
now the fire community at large has available the design of hand-wrappable fire snakes!
you the bomb flid! (i liked the classy red bg you have in the piccies too )

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


oliSILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom


Posted:
they do look cool when my poi break down i may have to buid a pair of these for my next set

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no


MikeIconGOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA


Posted:
So when do we get pics/videos of them in use?

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
probably when i'm mad enough to spin them

I've gotten used to the unlit weight now, and found a few moves i can't do with them that i can with others, such as dantana's corkscrew throw (it just isn't possible to get enough revolutions that they don't fly appart as soon as you throw), and normal throws - 1 revolution is fine, but with 2 the force they come down with is kinda painful, esp with the not so smooth ball chain attachments. I had hoped for them to replace my other set, but i think i'm gonna buy new wicks for those and use them interchangably. I'm gonna soak them and play with their soaked weight (which will probably be about double) for a week, then burn them for the first time on halloween.

You should see them in action on the 1st, provided i'm not in hospital

NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
I had a pair just like that back in the 80s. I used to attach my rubix cube keychain to the end of it for added weight.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


originalsmitSILVER Member
addict
469 posts
Location: nottingham, england. cornwall wales denmark or pra...


Posted:
yeah i did something very simalar, my poi were to weedy and lasted for about 2 mins so i got some 4" wick and replaced the head and made the chain 1/2 chain 1/2 rope wick the flames are well tasty and they light up very quick and last for ages, i wasnt hinking wraps but i have scars in the shape of a chain from a bicep wrap when a bit to hot so ill have to try this as the construction is a lot better than mine was.
when you add too much stamina becomes a problem like "can i spin these heavy bastards for long enough to be able to make them go out"
which can be a problem but i am there now
and happy

my original signature was tooo long.
this one is shorter


Deviationmember
21 posts
Location: England


Posted:
Flid, these look pretty meaty!

Is there any chance of having some pics?

Who tries to use knives-dies, Who tries to use fire-insinerates! >:)


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
Yup, i burnt them last night for the first time.

They weigh approx 800 grams when soaked, about double their weight unsoaked. Very fun, and very warm too! As per the design the ropes burn for the first min or 2, then the cathedrals burn for at least 9 mins. The kevlar is cool enough to touch, and the ball chain is cool enough to wrap around the hands for buzzsaw, but the chains are too heavy except towards the end of the burn to hold them securely for buzzsaw. All in all I'm very happy with them

Pictures from halloween (there's some boric acid pictures there too on pages 6 and 7, which Sir_Sheep bought along):

https://photos.offline.org.uk/showgallery.php?galleryid=124&page=3

and pictures of jon spinning them at clapham tonight (no one took pictures of me):

https://photos.offline.org.uk/showgallery.php?galleryid=123&page=3


Sir_Sheepold hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK


Posted:
Brilliant pics Flid. Thanks for putting the green flames online.

Wahay, don't they look great?

Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.


adamricepoo-bah
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA


Posted:
This is an ingenious design. I like it. I have a few questions/concerns:

1. Do you soak the rope sections? If not, do you find that fuel wicks up into them anyhow?

2. I wonder about the durability of these. Assuming you're trying to keep the rope sections dry, they'll tend to get burned. Kevlar is flame resistant, but it ain't fireproof.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
i soak the entire rope and wick, so I get snakes for the first couple of minutes, then just the cathedrals for the rest. The kevlar looses heat so rapidly that its cool to the touch once it's gone out and i can do wraps nicely with it then. The ball chain too looses its heat quickly, I wouldn't try hand wrapping whilst the rope is still burning, but i had no problems towards the end of the burn. I haven't tried just soaking the wicks yet, this was my original idea, but I quite like having mini snakes, it gives the burn a bit of variety.

I share your concern about the rope loosing its integrity, but the main cost of the wick is the cathedral head. Once the rope is starting to get knackered I can replace just the rope part. I wouldn't suggest them to anyone who isn't willing to get out some tools and fix them 6 months down the line, but so far I like em

DeepSoulSheepGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland


Posted:
Well impessive looking Flid ....having had them a little longer now and burned them and all is there anything about the design you'd change in hindsight?

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
erm, lemmie think

They are heavy as! 400g soaked each. I put them side by side with mbm's stupidly huge monkeyfists on saturday and to my horror they were the same size! (his have a larger surface area thou, he still wins on sucicially large flame ). I think i'd consider making the cathedrals out of 2 inch wick next time, but that's just a personal thing. I did want them to replace my current dying set (2inch cathedrals), but i now plan to rewick those and use the 2 sets interchangably.

I'd also consider tying the bottom knot only, then soaking and spinning (doesn't hafta be lit) with just the long rope on the other end. The reason for this is that the cathedral after its first burn gets compacted from the force put on it (which is pretty huge given the weight). Then tie the knot. The way I did it has meant that the knot above the cathedral which was flush with it is now about 1cm above.

I did plan to use link chain not ball chain, but on the day didn't have an extra set of quicklinks. The ballchain was just a temp solution, stolen from another set. BUT, I actially much prefer ball chain on them now. I find outer hyperloops harder with it, but inner spin so smoothly on the ballchain.

Other than that I'm not sure. Probably better to ask UCOF or Joe_six_steps who also used them on saturday, having not spent hours nursing them into existance with a pair of pliers they can probably be more critical

joe_sixstepsmULti-torTOISe
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...


Posted:
Well, here's a critic's report for you then:

The Flids showed excellent nose, with a strong dusky bouquet redollent of paraffin and singed hair. There wasn't much of an aftertaste, though the long finish left my arms three and a half inches longer, like a gibbon. This is a strong, confident number, with plenty of depth and a full body. Would be good with fish, chicken, or any fairly light mid-afternoon snack, served carbonised.

Tee hee. Actually I am incapable of offering any sort of critical analysis, because the moment these damn great walls of fire went off in my hands I was grinning like a madman and lost in a world of noise and flame. What larks! Damn good work that man, someone give him a banana!

The Confusion Squid has many tentacles


Sir_Sheepold hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK


Posted:
*gives Flid a banana*

Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
yay!

I'm gonna celebrate going to no lectures today and still sitting with a towel wrapped around me at 2.30pm by making banana bread now!

Sir_Sheepold hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK


Posted:
yum

Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
yes, that's what my housemates said when i went into the lounge with the towel round me a few minutes ago too

polytheneveteran
1,359 posts
Location: London/ Surrey


Posted:

The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.


Sir_Sheepold hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK


Posted:
Erm....

Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
damn, that is good banana bread/cake! If anyone feels creative and has an oven then heat it to 180 degrees, then mix 220g of white self raising flour, 3/4 cup of sugar, 60g marg, 1.5tsp baking powder, 0.5tsp bicarb soda, 1 ripe mashed banana (ask Sir_Sheep if you have none), 3.5 tbsp water, 1tsp vanilla esscence. Stick it in an oiled cake tin and bake for 45 mins. Me like, and having eaten a quater no longer want dinner. Life is good since i moved out of home

joe_sixstepsmULti-torTOISe
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...


Posted:
Method 2:

Mix the ingredients as above. Then heat one flid to 180 degrees, wrap mixture around wick and spin. Serve garnished with paraffin.

The Confusion Squid has many tentacles


Sir_Sheepold hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK


Posted:
Thats a lot of bananas I'll have to find when people start asking me for them.

And I never got any cake. After I shared my green fire aswell.

Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
i tried to mash it into my fone for you!

I'll bake some when you come next

As a little Flids update:

Always check the knots first! Lots of weight are put on them. I checked them before i spun last night and one was starting to come loose. I tightened it up and spun. By the end of the burn it had come loose again. Because it was a double knot there was no chance of it flying off, but even still it's kinda worrying. I'm gonna completely sew it up with kevlar thread and pva it. to avoid it happening in the future

DeepSoulSheepGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland


Posted:
Bannna bread
Printed off the recipe...
What's a cake tin? Do you buy it in a shop. How much do they cost?

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
a cake tin is just any old tin you have that has sides, like a loaf tin or a round one that you'd make a sponge cake in. The original recipe had 2 bananas and less water in, but i just used one highly ripe banana (the second was too ripe and got binned) and the texture is great, very simular to when using eggs. Start with 3 tbsp of water, which should be quite stiff, then add more water a tsp at a time till it's thin enough for you to be able to stir some air into, but not runny. Have fun

joe_sixstepsmULti-torTOISe
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...


Posted:
Hm... yes. I notice a very similar trend in some of your posts Flid. Both your "how to build Flids" and your "how to make banana cake" posts seem very similar to something I've read somewhere else... let me think...

Yes! I've got it! Flid, are you actually Delia Smith? Come on, be honest...

The Confusion Squid has many tentacles


Sir_Sheepold hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK


Posted:
Thats just a worrying thought.

Very worrying.

Indeed.

Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
only on sunday mornings

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