Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Cyclic deconstructionism within the framework post-modernist poi
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
so i hang around loads in poi moves but have never really contributed anything more than variations and clarifications.
my intention was always to share ideas through video but i have neither the time right now nor the skills to put together what i would like to.
so no video, yet i still fail to post about new stuff so here is my attempt to rectify that
i have been playing around with some poi recently and have been swinging lots of moves with pendula (or pendulums if you want to be wrong ).
i think they are fun for these reasons:
firstly you have less control - the speed of the poi is dependent on the length of the string all of a sudden.
secondly, don't some of you just get bored of circles sometimes...?
started off doing these by spinning a buzzsaw and taking one poi higher up (from the side view you get two stacked circles in the buzzsaw, one on top of the other) and stalling the top one into a pendulum.
all credit to josie fluoro for this initial spark of inspiration.
have recently been swinging them in the wall plane out of weaves or butterflies, sometimes with one poi spinning and one poi swinging and sometimes with both swinging (spin = a circle, swing = a pendulum).
some nice stuff to do with pendula:
transitions where the end of one swing becomes the start of a new one (ie. changing the pivot point [moving your hand] without making a circle to get to the new swing).
parallel pendula above and next to each other, split-time pendula when they pivot from the same point.
using circles to switch between parallel and split-time pendula.
changing string length to change swing speed.
isolated pendula (or 'shopping bags').
indispensible tip: i find while swinging pendula it helps to repeat the mantra 'tick-tock'.
[ 31. July 2003, 00:09: Message edited by: coleman ]
so i hang around loads in poi moves but have never really contributed anything more than variations and clarifications.
my intention was always to share ideas through video but i have neither the time right now nor the skills to put together what i would like to.
so no video, yet i still fail to post about new stuff so here is my attempt to rectify that
i have been playing around with some poi recently and have been swinging lots of moves with pendula (or pendulums if you want to be wrong ).
i think they are fun for these reasons:
firstly you have less control - the speed of the poi is dependent on the length of the string all of a sudden.
secondly, don't some of you just get bored of circles sometimes...?
started off doing these by spinning a buzzsaw and taking one poi higher up (from the side view you get two stacked circles in the buzzsaw, one on top of the other) and stalling the top one into a pendulum.
all credit to josie fluoro for this initial spark of inspiration.
have recently been swinging them in the wall plane out of weaves or butterflies, sometimes with one poi spinning and one poi swinging and sometimes with both swinging (spin = a circle, swing = a pendulum).
some nice stuff to do with pendula:
transitions where the end of one swing becomes the start of a new one (ie. changing the pivot point [moving your hand] without making a circle to get to the new swing).
parallel pendula above and next to each other, split-time pendula when they pivot from the same point.
using circles to switch between parallel and split-time pendula.
changing string length to change swing speed.
isolated pendula (or 'shopping bags').
indispensible tip: i find while swinging pendula it helps to repeat the mantra 'tick-tock'.
[ 31. July 2003, 00:09: Message edited by: coleman ]
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
You Guys are EVIL!!!!!!!
and Im way to innocent
scew you guys, im... immmm.... im....
gonna go practice inverse stops to gillies.
T
You Guys are EVIL!!!!!!!
and Im way to innocent
scew you guys, im... immmm.... im....
gonna go practice inverse stops to gillies.
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
the point of the matrix is you have a discrete set of constructs in the 'volume'.
i guess that's a little arbitrary as the values/exprssions held in it are pretty much infinite...
the real advantage is that moves will group themselves according to the shape of their constructs rather than 'this is the waistwrap family' or 'these are butterflies' or 'isolations look like this'.
you can then discover moves by studying the constructs in the matrix that are near to the constructs that produce the moves that we already know.
with quaternions you just describe the motion of your hand as you see it - there is no voyage of discovery or any ways of finding new constructs.
next step (which should lead to the success of this method) is to create digital poi.
discrete hand movements and applications of force to poi over time, set out in the construct space wuth only one variable changing by 1 unit at each nearest neighbour location.
that's when poi evolution and cumulative forced selection of moves become a reality.
remember though - when dealing with this matrix thing, the most important thing to remember is that there isn't a spoon. anywhere. ever.
cheers professor droo.
this is my second attempt at inverse pendula - the first one was so crap i didn't even mention it before! so...
i hope your inverse pendula don't involve a static poi head sitting on the ground and a hand waving about above it, cos that's just silly.
the point of the matrix is you have a discrete set of constructs in the 'volume'.
i guess that's a little arbitrary as the values/exprssions held in it are pretty much infinite...
the real advantage is that moves will group themselves according to the shape of their constructs rather than 'this is the waistwrap family' or 'these are butterflies' or 'isolations look like this'.
you can then discover moves by studying the constructs in the matrix that are near to the constructs that produce the moves that we already know.
with quaternions you just describe the motion of your hand as you see it - there is no voyage of discovery or any ways of finding new constructs.
next step (which should lead to the success of this method) is to create digital poi.
discrete hand movements and applications of force to poi over time, set out in the construct space wuth only one variable changing by 1 unit at each nearest neighbour location.
that's when poi evolution and cumulative forced selection of moves become a reality.
remember though - when dealing with this matrix thing, the most important thing to remember is that there isn't a spoon. anywhere. ever.
cheers professor droo.
this is my second attempt at inverse pendula - the first one was so crap i didn't even mention it before! so...
i hope your inverse pendula don't involve a static poi head sitting on the ground and a hand waving about above it, cos that's just silly.
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
I reckon that they have taken me about 42 hours so far, I'm nearly there.
(i did the first 40h 8 years ago. :phew: )
they're not too easy.
cole, I reckon you'll have them solid in maybe 5 hours with aerotechs.
glass
__________________________
butterflies in butterflies
I reckon that they have taken me about 42 hours so far, I'm nearly there.
(i did the first 40h 8 years ago. :phew: )
they're not too easy.
cole, I reckon you'll have them solid in maybe 5 hours with aerotechs.
glass
__________________________
butterflies in butterflies
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
"bf in bf" eh?
nice
think a little more than 5 hours though dude.
maybe after this winter when i can do the top half, i'll be able to make an attempt with poi...
"bf in bf" eh?
nice
think a little more than 5 hours though dude.
maybe after this winter when i can do the top half, i'll be able to make an attempt with poi...
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Posted:
MWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
LOL
ROFL
ROFLMAO
GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKS
NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERDS
::off to make some anti geekism potien to spread on your crepes::
Shine on you people whom i love s very very dearly
cass
MWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
LOL
ROFL
ROFLMAO
GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKS
NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERDS
::off to make some anti geekism potien to spread on your crepes::
Shine on you people whom i love s very very dearly
cass
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
BRONZE Member
member
13 posts
Location: tampa, fl, USA
member
13 posts
Location: tampa, fl, USA
Posted:
Out of sheer curiosity, has anyone written a white paper about this?
Out of sheer curiosity, has anyone written a white paper about this?
Signatures are for people who can read bad penmanship.
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
We should integrate all this theory into a computer program that will then sit back and come up will ALL possible movements. Then sit back and watch the computer "bot" spin poi. You could, in effect, use a supercomputer to develope poi beyond anything we have ever seen. I have a beowulf cluster at work (supercomputer) and if somebody here knows how to do computer programing (and physics) and can write a good program, I could run it for you.... I'm seriouse about this, NOT J/K
We should integrate all this theory into a computer program that will then sit back and come up will ALL possible movements. Then sit back and watch the computer "bot" spin poi. You could, in effect, use a supercomputer to develope poi beyond anything we have ever seen. I have a beowulf cluster at work (supercomputer) and if somebody here knows how to do computer programing (and physics) and can write a good program, I could run it for you.... I'm seriouse about this, NOT J/K
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
er, dude, there's plenty of things to come up with without going to all that trouble. Its much harder to simulate someone swinging poi by using a supercomputer than it is to do it with, umm, someone swinging poi.
and i never met a supercomputer that knows the difference between ugly and not ugly, apart from the ones in our heads.
of course, if you just wanna do it cause you're bored then go for it
er, dude, there's plenty of things to come up with without going to all that trouble. Its much harder to simulate someone swinging poi by using a supercomputer than it is to do it with, umm, someone swinging poi.
and i never met a supercomputer that knows the difference between ugly and not ugly, apart from the ones in our heads.
of course, if you just wanna do it cause you're bored then go for it
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
BRONZE Member
member
13 posts
Location: tampa, fl, USA
member
13 posts
Location: tampa, fl, USA
Posted:
normally i would be just bored enough to write such a program, but i'd rather set myself on fire. i dont think you need a supercomputer to generate the results though.
as far as what's ugly and what isn't, thats what neural nets are for.
if someone feels like going through the work of developing the algorithms, ill seriously consider implementing it.
normally i would be just bored enough to write such a program, but i'd rather set myself on fire. i dont think you need a supercomputer to generate the results though.
as far as what's ugly and what isn't, thats what neural nets are for.
if someone feels like going through the work of developing the algorithms, ill seriously consider implementing it.
Signatures are for people who can read bad penmanship.
SILVER Member
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posted:
i bet those reverse gilligans are easier to learn with staff. just a thought.
i've actually been thinking about the computer simulation idea for nearly a year now. however, working bottom up leads you to a few "nearly impossible" problems straight away. the first is that "all points are spheres" of zero radius as far as poi motion is concerned. any place you could pivot a poi (even only considering wrists first for simplicity), can be expanded to a sphere around which that pivot can further rotate. these things can pop into existance anywhere along the path of either poi!
after you take that into account, you can determine exactly what angular force is necessary to move the poi to any other planar circle around that sphere, of which there are infinitly many. when i first started thinking about this, i wanted just paths that would lead to non-tangles and not intersect with the body. but if you want to model all poi moves, now including air wraps and all body wraps, you even have to throw those minimal constraints out. then there's the fact that you can arbitrarily shorten and lengthen the 'chain' length (not only by wrapping your hands), through isolation, anywhere from the head of the poi (or beyond) all the way up to your shoulder (or even down the other arm) in theory.
The "algorithms" to figure this out are just a simple 3D change of angular momentum function, and the knowledge of exactly which angular forces a person is capable of exerting at any moment (equivalent to simulating every muscular contraction in a human body, and associated tendon, bone, and soft tissue flex). needless to say, this changes from person to person. you could only cut down on all those infinities by discretizing the variables. only a few isolation points, only the major euclidian shape angles, etc. what fun is that though?
now, working from top down, as everyone else has always been doing just by picking up a pair of poi, you see how easy it is to get stuck into very limited frameworks of "planes", "moves", and "transitions". once you learn not to testical wrap or to keep the poi from intersecting the inside of your skull, you've already started to delete possible moves from the infinite art of all-poi. without going into (more) philosophical rambling, the point is that everyone wants to find some kind of middle out strategy that will allow for coming up with innovative new moves, while keeping one's fertility ensured. in short, watch new people learn poi. teach them as slowly as possible so you can watch them mess up. we've all seen newbies do things on accident that take months to learn to do consistently on purpose, if we can do them at all. watch not only their "moves" but more importantly their "transitions" that hide latent moves. watch them smoothly flow a parallel time three beat weave into a split (perpendicular) time weave, instead of snatching it across as we're used to doing. that's where all the magic is. and if they can't learn to keep their eggs from getting cracked, tell them to buy a box (US: cup).
oh, and beauty is just symmetry (or the symmetrical lacking of symmetry). in other words, i agree completely with simian... even though i think he's ugly.
you may begin your flaming now.
-- Dut
::how about "hyperloops within hyperloops" ::
i bet those reverse gilligans are easier to learn with staff. just a thought.
i've actually been thinking about the computer simulation idea for nearly a year now. however, working bottom up leads you to a few "nearly impossible" problems straight away. the first is that "all points are spheres" of zero radius as far as poi motion is concerned. any place you could pivot a poi (even only considering wrists first for simplicity), can be expanded to a sphere around which that pivot can further rotate. these things can pop into existance anywhere along the path of either poi!
after you take that into account, you can determine exactly what angular force is necessary to move the poi to any other planar circle around that sphere, of which there are infinitly many. when i first started thinking about this, i wanted just paths that would lead to non-tangles and not intersect with the body. but if you want to model all poi moves, now including air wraps and all body wraps, you even have to throw those minimal constraints out. then there's the fact that you can arbitrarily shorten and lengthen the 'chain' length (not only by wrapping your hands), through isolation, anywhere from the head of the poi (or beyond) all the way up to your shoulder (or even down the other arm) in theory.
The "algorithms" to figure this out are just a simple 3D change of angular momentum function, and the knowledge of exactly which angular forces a person is capable of exerting at any moment (equivalent to simulating every muscular contraction in a human body, and associated tendon, bone, and soft tissue flex). needless to say, this changes from person to person. you could only cut down on all those infinities by discretizing the variables. only a few isolation points, only the major euclidian shape angles, etc. what fun is that though?
now, working from top down, as everyone else has always been doing just by picking up a pair of poi, you see how easy it is to get stuck into very limited frameworks of "planes", "moves", and "transitions". once you learn not to testical wrap or to keep the poi from intersecting the inside of your skull, you've already started to delete possible moves from the infinite art of all-poi. without going into (more) philosophical rambling, the point is that everyone wants to find some kind of middle out strategy that will allow for coming up with innovative new moves, while keeping one's fertility ensured. in short, watch new people learn poi. teach them as slowly as possible so you can watch them mess up. we've all seen newbies do things on accident that take months to learn to do consistently on purpose, if we can do them at all. watch not only their "moves" but more importantly their "transitions" that hide latent moves. watch them smoothly flow a parallel time three beat weave into a split (perpendicular) time weave, instead of snatching it across as we're used to doing. that's where all the magic is. and if they can't learn to keep their eggs from getting cracked, tell them to buy a box (US: cup).
oh, and beauty is just symmetry (or the symmetrical lacking of symmetry). in other words, i agree completely with simian... even though i think he's ugly.
you may begin your flaming now.
-- Dut
::how about "hyperloops within hyperloops" ::
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
am i ugly because of my lack of symmetry or because of my lack of symmetrical lack of symmetry?
am i ugly because of my lack of symmetry or because of my lack of symmetrical lack of symmetry?
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
It's your lack of symmetry.
A symmetrical lack of symmetry would be symmetrical.
Hey, it could be worse. You could be fugly.
It's your lack of symmetry.
A symmetrical lack of symmetry would be symmetrical.
Hey, it could be worse. You could be fugly.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
lurker
380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posted:
i might have been illustrating the point that it's pretty subjective which symmetries you choose to observe. i'll let you know why you're ugly when i see ya.
-- dut
i might have been illustrating the point that it's pretty subjective which symmetries you choose to observe. i'll let you know why you're ugly when i see ya.
-- dut
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
oooo, hyperloops within a hyperloop within a hyperloop
Seriousely, we could cut down the number of hyperloop intersections to three. one close to the handle (airwrap) on in the "middle" and on close to the poi head. Split it up into quarters.
The individual muscles strengths can be ignored by simply assuming a certain minimum strength, since poi are usually light weight, this is not a problem. make the muscles a little bit stronger than average, and the poi slightly lighter han normal.
The poi can be considered string (zero weight)
the arms will have to be considered extensions of the poi.
It could work,...
oooo, hyperloops within a hyperloop within a hyperloop
Seriousely, we could cut down the number of hyperloop intersections to three. one close to the handle (airwrap) on in the "middle" and on close to the poi head. Split it up into quarters.
The individual muscles strengths can be ignored by simply assuming a certain minimum strength, since poi are usually light weight, this is not a problem. make the muscles a little bit stronger than average, and the poi slightly lighter han normal.
The poi can be considered string (zero weight)
the arms will have to be considered extensions of the poi.
It could work,...
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
as for post-moderist developments, i recently realised that isolations with 'full-spin pops' are like the avant garde alternative to separations.
be aware that bad timing in buzzsaws can be dangerous for chins.
quote:kinda like a reverse construct (the glass registered arm-poi construct, not those crazy evolutionary tings i was ranting about).
Originally posted by DJ Dantana:
the arms will have to be considered extensions of the poi.
as for post-moderist developments, i recently realised that isolations with 'full-spin pops' are like the avant garde alternative to separations.
be aware that bad timing in buzzsaws can be dangerous for chins.
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Magical Sock Dancer
255 posts
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Magical Sock Dancer
255 posts
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posted:
I am so confused over this. Anyone got a video of themselves doing this stuff?
I am so confused over this. Anyone got a video of themselves doing this stuff?
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
nope. and not for a while yet i reckon...
nope. and not for a while yet i reckon...
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Magical Sock Dancer
255 posts
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Magical Sock Dancer
255 posts
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posted:
I think I can imagin what it looks like. I'm starting to think this stuff is impossiable under normal circumstances.
I think I can imagin what it looks like. I'm starting to think this stuff is impossiable under normal circumstances.
member
32 posts
Location: Montreal
32 posts
Location: Montreal
Posted:
As a post-post-modernist I feel that deconstructionalism overcomplicates our art and renders it needlessly inaccessible to the proletariat. Whilst this kind of arch incongruity can prove amusing and rewarding to the artist it culminates in the intellectual snobbery that keeps art out of the reach of the everyday joe bloggs and firmly in the domain of the elite.
On another note, I'm very pleased to see that I'm not the only one who knows how to pluralise 'pendulum'. But do you know how to pluralize 'corpus' ('corpora', from whence cometh the English 'incorporate' and 'corporal') and 'penis' ('penes'; c.f. 'thesis')?
As a post-post-modernist I feel that deconstructionalism overcomplicates our art and renders it needlessly inaccessible to the proletariat. Whilst this kind of arch incongruity can prove amusing and rewarding to the artist it culminates in the intellectual snobbery that keeps art out of the reach of the everyday joe bloggs and firmly in the domain of the elite.
On another note, I'm very pleased to see that I'm not the only one who knows how to pluralise 'pendulum'. But do you know how to pluralize 'corpus' ('corpora', from whence cometh the English 'incorporate' and 'corporal') and 'penis' ('penes'; c.f. 'thesis')?
'share and enjoy'
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
plural of penis = dicks
T
plural of penis = dicks
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Damn I just read this whole thread.
its very funny
team work.
And there are soooooo maky moves and big concepts concealed in all all the bullsh!t
oh and the lovely link to the orbital shapes,
I like that
Damn I just read this whole thread.
its very funny
team work.
And there are soooooo maky moves and big concepts concealed in all all the bullsh!t
oh and the lovely link to the orbital shapes,
I like that
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Even though my homie is sitting right next to me eating pasta I did want to get a shout out to Glass for leading a 'post modernist poi workshop' at the EJC. Now the word of broken circles has been spread throughout Europe and the rest of the world.
And then Dai put them all back together again.
Props to Drew and Dom, international postmodernist preachers.
Even though my homie is sitting right next to me eating pasta I did want to get a shout out to Glass for leading a 'post modernist poi workshop' at the EJC. Now the word of broken circles has been spread throughout Europe and the rest of the world.
And then Dai put them all back together again.
Props to Drew and Dom, international postmodernist preachers.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
I belive you are correct, this is some good stuff. I have begun incorperating some of it recently and it just feels good....
I belive you are correct, this is some good stuff. I have begun incorperating some of it recently and it just feels good....
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
originally posted by Cole....
No worries mate.
T
originally posted by Cole....
quote:I actually took the time to read through and understand thiss, and its damm fine (and damm funny) cole you would do peaple a service to explain this again in planer language. Like how hand movements cange poi movements and stuff.
the common misconception that a post-neo-pre-retro poi spinner must first have a firm grounding in the fundamentals of the circle before moving on to exploring the construct will be shattered when we come to realise that a circle is not a separate entity from the construct, but rather the product of just one construct of an almost infinite set. in this case a construct that specifically results in a hand centred, infinitely faced polygon.
by exploring this set, which we can consider to be an eight dimensional volume referred to as the 'construct space', starting from the double-circle construct and moving out along known paths we will find the constructs that build up the techniques already in common use.
taking detours from these paths and exploring the nearest-neighbour constructs and by then rotating the construct space volume around these new locations and visiting the nearest and next-nearest neighbour constructs will, over time, reveal construct products that were previously unimagined or otherwise thought to be impossible.
example, an atom spun as a (very slightly irregular) docecahedron is a mere 9 one-location 'jumps' through construct space from an atom spun as a sphere.
once we accept the construct space as a viable route to new techniques, we cannot fail to ignore that all of this points to one unassailable fact - natural, cumulative selection of evolving poi constructs equates to neo-darwinism operating at toy-level. which may have some large ramifications for any transformers you may still have lying around... [/QB]
No worries mate.
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
Lost in the world but loving it :)
119 posts
Location: Maybe Oxford, maybe Brighton ;)
119 posts
Location: Maybe Oxford, maybe Brighton ;)
Posted:
Thats incredible.........I just read all of this post, my word, speechless...............
Reaching gently, oh so gently for lethal poison..........
Poi surrealism, deconstructionism, aren't these all just froms of poiism generally, an ism isnt just for christmas, they can mess with your head perfectly well for a whole year...............
Got the poison now, I'm going to deconstruct myself..........
Thats incredible.........I just read all of this post, my word, speechless...............
Reaching gently, oh so gently for lethal poison..........
Poi surrealism, deconstructionism, aren't these all just froms of poiism generally, an ism isnt just for christmas, they can mess with your head perfectly well for a whole year...............
Got the poison now, I'm going to deconstruct myself..........
If fishes were wishes we'd all cast nets
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
er well, uh, umm....
the answers are already inside of you, explore your inner gilligan and the poi will lead you...
ahem. sorry about that.
i'm not gonna get too detailed here (as it is all quite likely to crumble under close scrutiny).
but i will say this:
"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth - there is no spoon."
now obviously there isn't a spoon. that stuff's generally in the other toys forum.
but replace spoon with poi and that's what i'm on about.
a 'construct' is a set of movements for each arm and hand.
with the whole set of constructs (an almost infinite set) arranged in a matrix with as many dimensions as it takes to describe them (i came to 8 but it could be more i guess) you can then replace the poi and give them initial directions of spin.
some constructs may change the plane or direction of the spin or more simply move the plane it is spinning on.
more interesting (in fact propbably the only interesting thing about all this) is that one construct can produce more than one 'move' (or pattern if you like) depending on the initial direction of the poi.
best example is the 3bt-crossover construct.
with poi moving in the same direction, this construct will produce a 3bt crossfollow/weave.
with poi moving in opposite directions this construct produces a split-time bf weave.
exactly the same hand and arm movements produce two very different looking moves.
be warned this is generally *not* quite the same construct that we refer to when talking about isolation based spinning.
those constructs include the poi as well and are a combination of this idea (with the poi extension) and 3d representations of the (spatial) volumes that the patterns enclose (see the orbital probability cloud thingys).
is that better...?
er well, uh, umm....
the answers are already inside of you, explore your inner gilligan and the poi will lead you...
ahem. sorry about that.
i'm not gonna get too detailed here (as it is all quite likely to crumble under close scrutiny).
but i will say this:
"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth - there is no spoon."
now obviously there isn't a spoon. that stuff's generally in the other toys forum.
but replace spoon with poi and that's what i'm on about.
a 'construct' is a set of movements for each arm and hand.
with the whole set of constructs (an almost infinite set) arranged in a matrix with as many dimensions as it takes to describe them (i came to 8 but it could be more i guess) you can then replace the poi and give them initial directions of spin.
some constructs may change the plane or direction of the spin or more simply move the plane it is spinning on.
more interesting (in fact propbably the only interesting thing about all this) is that one construct can produce more than one 'move' (or pattern if you like) depending on the initial direction of the poi.
best example is the 3bt-crossover construct.
with poi moving in the same direction, this construct will produce a 3bt crossfollow/weave.
with poi moving in opposite directions this construct produces a split-time bf weave.
exactly the same hand and arm movements produce two very different looking moves.
be warned this is generally *not* quite the same construct that we refer to when talking about isolation based spinning.
those constructs include the poi as well and are a combination of this idea (with the poi extension) and 3d representations of the (spatial) volumes that the patterns enclose (see the orbital probability cloud thingys).
is that better...?
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
Im like to be there.
Im like to be there.
POI THEO(R)IST
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
[What's up Richee! ]
Though if we explore partical/wave duality we can see that it is better described as one poi having a probability of being somewhere while simultaneously being everywhere. I'm not quite sure what that looks like but I'm pretty sure it would have some funky planes.
Either way, it's pretty mean to go putting the cat in the box in the first place.
[What's up Richee! ]
Though if we explore partical/wave duality we can see that it is better described as one poi having a probability of being somewhere while simultaneously being everywhere. I'm not quite sure what that looks like but I'm pretty sure it would have some funky planes.
Either way, it's pretty mean to go putting the cat in the box in the first place.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
well we let the cat out of the bag already.
better to have it in a box than running around the house peeing on the furniture...
well we let the cat out of the bag already.
better to have it in a box than running around the house peeing on the furniture...
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
Especially not if it's time to go to the vet...
Especially not if it's time to go to the vet...
"Moo," said the happy cow.
© 1998 - 2025 Home of Poi
All prices converted to United States dollars using XE.com