Forums > Social Discussion > Doing your bit - What can we do to try make things better?
Login/Join to ParticipateGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
Most people I know all agree with me on most things. Most people don't want species to dissapear or want depleted soil or genetically modified food or want to encourage sweatshops and all this stuff. I think there's loads of options open to people that require little or no effort that we're not even aware of. So let's point 'em out to each other...
There are also choices that we can make that mean there is a higher cost involved. Who's prepared to take a small drop in their standard of living in order to give someone else or future generations a slighly more positive outlook. Are we obliged to do so or shut up complaining?
There are many things we can do to live our lives more ethically and sustainably. Many of these things are unfortunately more expensive though. For example fair trade tea and coffee cost more. Organic vegetables cost more.
The higher costs can have several causes like:
- Economies of scale, competing againtst gigantic buying power.
- Realism. We live in a fairy tail world where in we are able to buy exceptionally cheap goods only because the true costs are externalised.
- Quality products costing more - remember quality products are more efficient than cheap cr@p.
Really though it's only through supporting sustainable business that they will be able to grow.
Indeed there needn't necessarily be a higher cost by default (eg - filling up washing up liquid bottles with liquid from www.sustainable.ie is an option for me). Do people have ideas for things like this that people can do that aren't even more expensive.
I personally don't eat organically all the time, but I try to if I can find time to get the the local organic markets, whenever I can (as tesco organic is pricey). I am also looking into www.absolutelyorganic.ie as a possible solution. Similar businesses exist in most places and deserve support in my opinion.
[Old link] some cool places to buy clothes. I'm particularly impressed with howies.
Encourage your place of work to change to fairtrade products. Encourage them to use recyclable plastic cups etc...
Buy energy saving lightbulbs and reduce your electricity bill.
The bodyshop is a great example of how ethical business can be successful.
The business model is the only way that any real change will come about in the world (if ever :rolleyes: ) so spend your money wisely.
Hopefully governments will begin to incentivise sustainable business in the future to help encourage positive steps. The solution to all our problems is to make it cheaper for everyone to do the right thing and more expensive to do the wrong...
Can we keep this thread to good ideas and talking about our obligations rather than whether organic cotton is a good thing or not...
* Waits excitedly for hints tips and ideas! *
Most people I know all agree with me on most things. Most people don't want species to dissapear or want depleted soil or genetically modified food or want to encourage sweatshops and all this stuff. I think there's loads of options open to people that require little or no effort that we're not even aware of. So let's point 'em out to each other...
There are also choices that we can make that mean there is a higher cost involved. Who's prepared to take a small drop in their standard of living in order to give someone else or future generations a slighly more positive outlook. Are we obliged to do so or shut up complaining?
There are many things we can do to live our lives more ethically and sustainably. Many of these things are unfortunately more expensive though. For example fair trade tea and coffee cost more. Organic vegetables cost more.
The higher costs can have several causes like:
- Economies of scale, competing againtst gigantic buying power.
- Realism. We live in a fairy tail world where in we are able to buy exceptionally cheap goods only because the true costs are externalised.
- Quality products costing more - remember quality products are more efficient than cheap cr@p.
Really though it's only through supporting sustainable business that they will be able to grow.
Indeed there needn't necessarily be a higher cost by default (eg - filling up washing up liquid bottles with liquid from www.sustainable.ie is an option for me). Do people have ideas for things like this that people can do that aren't even more expensive.
I personally don't eat organically all the time, but I try to if I can find time to get the the local organic markets, whenever I can (as tesco organic is pricey). I am also looking into www.absolutelyorganic.ie as a possible solution. Similar businesses exist in most places and deserve support in my opinion.
[Old link] some cool places to buy clothes. I'm particularly impressed with howies.
Encourage your place of work to change to fairtrade products. Encourage them to use recyclable plastic cups etc...
Buy energy saving lightbulbs and reduce your electricity bill.
The bodyshop is a great example of how ethical business can be successful.
The business model is the only way that any real change will come about in the world (if ever :rolleyes: ) so spend your money wisely.
Hopefully governments will begin to incentivise sustainable business in the future to help encourage positive steps. The solution to all our problems is to make it cheaper for everyone to do the right thing and more expensive to do the wrong...
Can we keep this thread to good ideas and talking about our obligations rather than whether organic cotton is a good thing or not...
* Waits excitedly for hints tips and ideas! *
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
go shopping with your own bags...
I find that (at least in the UK!) even if you say "I don't need a bag!" they'll just give you one unless you hand it back to them
so reuse plastic bags or, better, get fabric ones!
Have posted this before, but www.freecycle.org is good for getting rid of things someone might use but that charity shops probably won't sell, and not let it get into landfill.
If you've got enough light in the room, don't put your monitor on max brightness.
Warm showers instead of hot ones, wash clothes at 60 degrees instead of 90 (or 40 instead of 60 etc) when it's going to be enough (in other words wash at the minimum, not maximum temperature). Use minimum amounts of washing-up liquid and washing powder (usually LESS than the pack says, they just want to sell more!
). Don't use fabric conditioner if you don't need it. And don't use a tumble dryer if you can hang up your clothes instead.
Easy for me to say now I only have a shower: showers instead of baths (but that's my weak point, so I wouldn't ask it from anyone)
Use the energy settings on the computer, and generally switch things off if you don't use them for a while.
Standby eats energy, too, so switch off the tv, even if you have to get up to switch it on again
go shopping with your own bags...
I find that (at least in the UK!) even if you say "I don't need a bag!" they'll just give you one unless you hand it back to them
so reuse plastic bags or, better, get fabric ones!Have posted this before, but www.freecycle.org is good for getting rid of things someone might use but that charity shops probably won't sell, and not let it get into landfill.
If you've got enough light in the room, don't put your monitor on max brightness.
Warm showers instead of hot ones, wash clothes at 60 degrees instead of 90 (or 40 instead of 60 etc) when it's going to be enough (in other words wash at the minimum, not maximum temperature). Use minimum amounts of washing-up liquid and washing powder (usually LESS than the pack says, they just want to sell more!
). Don't use fabric conditioner if you don't need it. And don't use a tumble dryer if you can hang up your clothes instead.Easy for me to say now I only have a shower: showers instead of baths (but that's my weak point, so I wouldn't ask it from anyone)
Use the energy settings on the computer, and generally switch things off if you don't use them for a while.
Standby eats energy, too, so switch off the tv, even if you have to get up to switch it on again
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
Well a really simple way to have an effect is to boycott certain products.
The most boycotted brand on the planet it nestle. It's a really hard one to completely boycott cos they have their fingers in so many pies. However they really are evil people. The 2 main reasons for the boycott are that they trick mothers in third world countries to use powdered milk instead of breast feeding, the mothers milk dries up and they have to keep buying the nestle product. Powdered milk increases chances of cot death. Plus they support child slave labour to harvest their cocoa.
Another brand that no one with an ounce of moral fibre would buy into is coca cola. Again it's tricky cos they are massive. But they are another super evil corporation. Particularly due to their use of paramilitary groups to keep the workforce in line and their dodgy water privatisation policies.
Here's a quick link to outline some other corporations worth avoiding:
https://www.poetz.com/2005%20worst%20corporations.htm
Well a really simple way to have an effect is to boycott certain products.
The most boycotted brand on the planet it nestle. It's a really hard one to completely boycott cos they have their fingers in so many pies. However they really are evil people. The 2 main reasons for the boycott are that they trick mothers in third world countries to use powdered milk instead of breast feeding, the mothers milk dries up and they have to keep buying the nestle product. Powdered milk increases chances of cot death. Plus they support child slave labour to harvest their cocoa.
Another brand that no one with an ounce of moral fibre would buy into is coca cola. Again it's tricky cos they are massive. But they are another super evil corporation. Particularly due to their use of paramilitary groups to keep the workforce in line and their dodgy water privatisation policies.
Here's a quick link to outline some other corporations worth avoiding:
https://www.poetz.com/2005%20worst%20corporations.htm
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
GOLD Member
HOP's glowstick ambassador!!
128 posts
Location: Bay Area, California, USA
HOP's glowstick ambassador!!
128 posts
Location: Bay Area, California, USA
Posted:
haha, in France they never ever give bags unless you ask for one, and then they add like 0,15 € to the cost if you do. Most stores sell their own little reusable shopping bags that everyone seems to have and bring back every time they go shopping.
Written by: Birgit
go shopping with your own bags...
I find that (at least in the UK!) even if you say "I don't need a bag!" they'll just give you one unless you hand it back to them
haha, in France they never ever give bags unless you ask for one, and then they add like 0,15 € to the cost if you do. Most stores sell their own little reusable shopping bags that everyone seems to have and bring back every time they go shopping.
missegyptology: "I just remember beingall off balance and unicycling really fast down to campus and the arabic was all blurred on the page"
^When Linz pulls an all nighter before Arabic class^
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Same in Germany... so it was a bit of a culture shock here. LIDL still charge for the bags though
Same in Germany... so it was a bit of a culture shock here. LIDL still charge for the bags though
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
activist for HoPper liberation.
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
Posted:
did this go through for definate then? last i heard anita roddick was resisting the offer...
N.B. Green and Blacks is now owned by Cadburys also...
i would suggest that if you're going to boycott and corporation in particular, do your research, why are you boycotting that company and what effect your boycott could have, what other links are there that you might not be aware of, don't make assumptions. A lot of smaller brands can be owned or controlled by a bigger corporation without it being blatantly advertised. www.ethicalconsumer.org has a boycott list and buyers guides which compare the big brands under categories of consumables, but i don't know how up to date this is. Don't assume that all charities are in the clear either, check their annual reports to find out how donations are divided, and check undercover also, i've heard of one cancer charity investing in the arms trade...
Buy local produce where you can, the less air miles the better obviously, and if you buy it in a supermarket, it might well have done a 300 mile round trip to be packed anyway... find a local farmers market, support the smaller farmers and cut back on the environmental impact at the same time.
Car shares, if you have to drive, cram as many people in the car with you as you can (preferably people going in the same direction rather than just randoms off the street), otherwise take public transport, there are very few places i haven't been able to get to in my life without a train, bus, bike or my feet even if it does take a little more planning.
Seperate your rubbish, it doesn't take that long really... and start composting food waste....
Written by: Spanner
I don't mean to rain on your parade - especially as I strongly agree with the importance of making things better - but the ethics of the Body Shop are now highly questionable since it was bought by L'Oreal earlier this year which is also part owned by Nestle. I don't know whether you were aware of that or not.
Anita Roddick claims that it's an opportunity to influence these parent firms but as L'Oreal is still apparently involved in animal testing I find this doubtful.
did this go through for definate then? last i heard anita roddick was resisting the offer...
N.B. Green and Blacks is now owned by Cadburys also...
i would suggest that if you're going to boycott and corporation in particular, do your research, why are you boycotting that company and what effect your boycott could have, what other links are there that you might not be aware of, don't make assumptions. A lot of smaller brands can be owned or controlled by a bigger corporation without it being blatantly advertised. www.ethicalconsumer.org has a boycott list and buyers guides which compare the big brands under categories of consumables, but i don't know how up to date this is. Don't assume that all charities are in the clear either, check their annual reports to find out how donations are divided, and check undercover also, i've heard of one cancer charity investing in the arms trade...
Buy local produce where you can, the less air miles the better obviously, and if you buy it in a supermarket, it might well have done a 300 mile round trip to be packed anyway... find a local farmers market, support the smaller farmers and cut back on the environmental impact at the same time.
Car shares, if you have to drive, cram as many people in the car with you as you can (preferably people going in the same direction rather than just randoms off the street), otherwise take public transport, there are very few places i haven't been able to get to in my life without a train, bus, bike or my feet even if it does take a little more planning.
Seperate your rubbish, it doesn't take that long really... and start composting food waste....
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.
member
131 posts
Location: Manchester
131 posts
Location: Manchester
Posted:
Becareful with these ethical lists though - I'm sorry but they have a tendency to be run by uber-nutjobs. I live an ethical life - organic food, freedom food meat etc, but as I support Israel and buy Israeli products i'm shunned by these lists. Just because something is on the list doesn't mean its actualy unethical - anyone whohas lived in Israel will tell you that things are incredibly Pro-Palestine biased over here.
I can't speak for other countries, as i've not lived there and don't know, but before people start boycotting I suggest you look into what actually goes on and how both sides of the story affect people. I'd give actual examples but i'd get poked for being off-topic.
However, yes, Nestle are evil and deserve to burn.
Becareful with these ethical lists though - I'm sorry but they have a tendency to be run by uber-nutjobs. I live an ethical life - organic food, freedom food meat etc, but as I support Israel and buy Israeli products i'm shunned by these lists. Just because something is on the list doesn't mean its actualy unethical - anyone whohas lived in Israel will tell you that things are incredibly Pro-Palestine biased over here.
I can't speak for other countries, as i've not lived there and don't know, but before people start boycotting I suggest you look into what actually goes on and how both sides of the story affect people. I'd give actual examples but i'd get poked for being off-topic.
However, yes, Nestle are evil and deserve to burn.
'If your deeds shouldn't be known, perhaps they shouldn't be done, if your words shouldn't be shared, perhaps they shouldn't be spoken. Act with attention, for all your acts have consequences" (Rabbi Judah HaNassi)
GOLD Member
organic creation
246 posts
Location: earth, Wales (UK)
organic creation
246 posts
Location: earth, Wales (UK)
Posted:
donate time / money
https://www.ecologyfund.com/ecology/_ecology.html
alternative energy
https://www.iwantcleanair.com/shop.cfm?productID=1034_1035
eat organic
https://www.themeatrix.com/
donate time / money
https://www.ecologyfund.com/ecology/_ecology.html
alternative energy
https://www.iwantcleanair.com/shop.cfm?productID=1034_1035
eat organic
https://www.themeatrix.com/
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Gremlin_Lou... are most Israeli companies supported by the government? If so, I can see why they'd be on boycott lists.
Given that boycotters are usually left-wing and support Palestine, it's not really a surprise...
Reports like this: https://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1112442,00.html
probably don't help either.
From when I was in Israel, I remember even the Israeli saying there shouldn't be workers from abroad because there shouldn't be so many foreigners in the country, and they shouldn't have the same rights, but they needed them for the economy. Now I strongly hope that the case I've linked to is an exception. Even if it's not I assume it is an exaggeration to boycott ALL Israeli products. However, given what I heard when I was in Israel, and what the Guardian says, it's probably safe to assume that many Israeli companies employ people from poorer countries under conditions that are worse than those for Israeli Jews.
I've also heard a lot of bad things from Israeli Arabs about their working conditions when I was there, but since I haven't yet found an unbiased backup of what they told us I don't take it as fact for now.
EDIT: I'm feeling the need to be uber-politically correct here and point out that
a. I agree with you about the people running boycott lists, and
b. that all I can say here is from the press and what I've heard/seen in 2 weeks in Israel. I really hope the picture is much much brighter than the Guardian paints it...
EDITED_BY: Birgit (1149090166)
Gremlin_Lou... are most Israeli companies supported by the government? If so, I can see why they'd be on boycott lists.
Given that boycotters are usually left-wing and support Palestine, it's not really a surprise...
Reports like this: https://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1112442,00.html
probably don't help either.
From when I was in Israel, I remember even the Israeli saying there shouldn't be workers from abroad because there shouldn't be so many foreigners in the country, and they shouldn't have the same rights, but they needed them for the economy. Now I strongly hope that the case I've linked to is an exception. Even if it's not I assume it is an exaggeration to boycott ALL Israeli products. However, given what I heard when I was in Israel, and what the Guardian says, it's probably safe to assume that many Israeli companies employ people from poorer countries under conditions that are worse than those for Israeli Jews.
I've also heard a lot of bad things from Israeli Arabs about their working conditions when I was there, but since I haven't yet found an unbiased backup of what they told us I don't take it as fact for now.
EDIT: I'm feeling the need to be uber-politically correct here and point out that
a. I agree with you about the people running boycott lists, and
b. that all I can say here is from the press and what I've heard/seen in 2 weeks in Israel. I really hope the picture is much much brighter than the Guardian paints it...
EDITED_BY: Birgit (1149090166)
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
activist for HoPper liberation.
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
Posted:
actually i agree! what i'm trying to say is really you shouldn't just rely on any one source of information if you're going to do a boycott... and you should at least understand why you are boycotting. Personally, a boycott wouldn't be my curse of action anyway, but it's good to have an idea of what might be going on inside these big businesses.
Written by: Gremlin_Lou
Becareful with these ethical lists though - I'm sorry but they have a tendency to be run by uber-nutjobs.
actually i agree! what i'm trying to say is really you shouldn't just rely on any one source of information if you're going to do a boycott... and you should at least understand why you are boycotting. Personally, a boycott wouldn't be my curse of action anyway, but it's good to have an idea of what might be going on inside these big businesses. Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.
member
131 posts
Location: Manchester
131 posts
Location: Manchester
Posted:
In terms of what the4 Guardian said, itns the company thats at fault- not the country. Yeh, its shitty, but it wouldn't stand up in court.
I'm sure theres companies in UK just as bad.
In terms of what the4 Guardian said, itns the company thats at fault- not the country. Yeh, its shitty, but it wouldn't stand up in court.
I'm sure theres companies in UK just as bad.
'If your deeds shouldn't be known, perhaps they shouldn't be done, if your words shouldn't be shared, perhaps they shouldn't be spoken. Act with attention, for all your acts have consequences" (Rabbi Judah HaNassi)
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
lol... that's why I was asking how far the government is involved in companies... if it is, then attitudes like that company's, and the general political situation, would reflect on many Israeli products. Just trying to understand a situation I don't know an awful lot about
As to UK companies, I wouldn't know - from what I know of the Guardian they would very likely publish it if they heard about it happening in the UK. But since I don't regularly read British media it was only chance I read this one in the first place
So IF the UK does it, they must be better at hiding it 
lol... that's why I was asking how far the government is involved in companies... if it is, then attitudes like that company's, and the general political situation, would reflect on many Israeli products. Just trying to understand a situation I don't know an awful lot about
As to UK companies, I wouldn't know - from what I know of the Guardian they would very likely publish it if they heard about it happening in the UK. But since I don't regularly read British media it was only chance I read this one in the first place
So IF the UK does it, they must be better at hiding it "vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
GOLD Member
Member
140 posts
Location: middle of the outback, Australia
Member
140 posts
Location: middle of the outback, Australia
Posted:
Everyone: dont' eat fast food from the big fast food chains!
Everyone: dont' eat fast food from the big fast food chains!
hm, pinecones, my favourits!
GOLD Member
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
journeyman
90 posts
Location: Perth, West Australia
Posted:
[...pedals in, takes box off carrier, gets on it...]
Bicycles
- Good for ya
- Low environmental impact to run & maintain
- Relatively low impact to produce (compared to cars etc)
Plant trees (and shrubs, lianes, megaherbs, rushes, sedges, ferns etc etc)
- Preferably something native with seed/cutting sourced from locally endemic populations
[gets off box, puts box back on carrier, pedals off...]
[...pedals in, takes box off carrier, gets on it...]
Bicycles
- Good for ya
- Low environmental impact to run & maintain
- Relatively low impact to produce (compared to cars etc)
Plant trees (and shrubs, lianes, megaherbs, rushes, sedges, ferns etc etc)
- Preferably something native with seed/cutting sourced from locally endemic populations
[gets off box, puts box back on carrier, pedals off...]
"What drives life is...a little electric current kept up by the sunshine." Albert Szent-Gyorgi
activist for HoPper liberation.
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
Posted:
little things everyday, here's a website to help
oh yes... and raking up the ol' boycott subject again, bad corp has the rather nice feature of telling you which other companies companies own, they pretty much have a list that covers hundreds of companies, although not all the inforamtion is complete on them, the big "evil nine" have quite a lot of information on there...
little things everyday, here's a website to help
oh yes... and raking up the ol' boycott subject again, bad corp has the rather nice feature of telling you which other companies companies own, they pretty much have a list that covers hundreds of companies, although not all the inforamtion is complete on them, the big "evil nine" have quite a lot of information on there...
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.
enthusiast
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
Posted:
Smile at your neighbours. They'll start to feel like they belong in a community again.
Smile at your neighbours. They'll start to feel like they belong in a community again.
"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman
Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.
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