Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Any Tips of Moves for doing 4?

Posted: 4th Mar 2006

Written by: tms04e

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Ive pretty much mastered 2 poi

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okay i think i'm done



mastered 2 poi? I somehow doubt that....

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

Posted: 4th Mar 2006
I think there's something floating around this site about 4 poi. (Check google up top)
But really mastered
How long have you been doing it? eg have you been doing it for years or have you just started since you joined up here?

Are you up for it?
;)

Posted: 4th Mar 2006
I can only really think of one person who has "Mastered" poi, but i dunno, ther are others, and who knows... maby you're one of em, lol

Good better best,
Never let it rest,
Until your good be better,
And your better best!!!!

Posted: 4th Mar 2006
Two meteors togerther and make two butterflies, two weaves or weave low wave can help.
I find nice start when you lay pair of Poi on the gound parallel and start butterfly too. You can try the same start with two pairs too, but I recomend you to get two meteors.

:R

POI THEO(R)IST

Posted: 4th Mar 2006

Written by: Sigsta

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I can only really think of one person who has "Mastered" poi, but i dunno, ther are others, and who knows... maby you're one of em, lol

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who s that?

Posted: 4th Mar 2006
Any "true masters" of poi I've seen never considered themselves to be masters, and thus become more masterful over time.

Poi is like zen

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?

Wildfire/US East coast fire footage

LA/EDC glow/fire footage

Fresno fire

Posted: 5th Mar 2006
Nick Woolsey??!! The god of Poi??!

The world is a park. Go play in it. x x x

Posted: 5th Mar 2006
Oh wow! A master of poi!

Do you have a video? I'd like to see!

I know a little about 4 poi, some maori techniques involve lifting two pairs off the ground simultaneosly into two seperate butterflies, never seen it done with fire though.

missegyptology: "I just remember beingall off balance and unicycling really fast down to campus and the arabic was all blurred on the page"

^When Linz pulls an all nighter before Arabic class^

Posted: 6th Mar 2006
Nick Woolsey is very clean, and is indeed a master of one aspect of poi. But it's a huuuuuuuge discipline! Have a look [Old link] for a good description of the state of the top levels of poi.

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

Posted: 7th Mar 2006
Get COL 5 there is a guy who spins 4 poi for an entire burn. Many butterfly combo's.

dont make peoples heads turn, give them whiplash.

Posted: 8th Mar 2006
go talk to 2bags

he can do a bit with 4

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

Posted: 8th Mar 2006
try just wit 2 poi in one hand see what you can do

then pick up anotherv 2 i think any kind of crosovers would get messy

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

Posted: 8th Mar 2006

Written by: tms04e

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I was just wondering if anyone had any tips or beginning moves for doing 4 poi at once? Ive pretty much mastered 2 poi, looking for something new. Any help is appreciated.

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So you're asking those of us who HAVEN'T mastered poi to give advice to you, the only person in the planet who has mastered poi.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 14th Mar 2006
strange everyone gets so uppset.
i have been doing 4 poi for a while, 2-3 years or something. its [censored] hard and you will not learn it as fast as 2 poi. here are some ideas for you about the double butterfly.

there is alot off things to do with 4 poi. first learn too start onehand butterfly in each hand. (use youre fingers)
behind back, over the head with 2 in 1 hand try them, learn them. together they will help you do one off the 4 poi pirouettes.

after this, U can start juggling. let go of one of youre 4 pois an let it fall back into the pattern. try another poi. do a flash (throw all off them)

do the behind the back at the wrong side (right hand butterfly goes behind back, from left). Together with over the head u should have space enough for some really nice looking patterns that are a bit similarly to a turning weave, only 50 times as hard to learn

Posted: 16th Mar 2006
4 poi weave?

it looks kinda like two staff weave to me, not butterflies. ive been doing 4 poi for about 6-7 years now

sorry i disagree, 4 poi is much harder than two. the moves are analagous to 2 poi moves, weaves ect but they arent the same, there are fundamentally a different number of things whirling about to get tangled with.......................................... unless you get to the point of doing them yourself you cant understand the subtle differences and appreciate how hard 4 really are.


yeah guys years ago now there was a good description of the first basic moves for two one handed butterflies. about 8 turns ect.

move your feet and the poi will follow!!

onehanded butterflies are a hugely underdeveloped move. there is way more subtlety than most of you (except burn cat) probably realise. there are way more moves than i ever dreamed

may not be a reply people want to hear, but yeah i was doing 4 when old nick first was picking up his poi. i used to mail him advice..................(o.k. maybe infrequently and a long time ago..... you guys checked out the venue?) lol he wont remember me though.... i'll fess up to that to avoid confusion

and yes no claims of mastery anywhere in sight, cause i know how much i cant do.


just keep searching on the site TMS youll find something by someone eventually

Posted: 18th Mar 2006
Take up double staff.

The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

Posted: 9th Apr 2006
4 poi butterfly is lame tho ; Johathan im sure youv'e seen every Maori girl in NZ all doing 4 poi flys!!!

Sry my description was for 4 poi weave, it typed it wrong.

Its not really like 2 staff weave cause i use a single wrap which shortens one poi... on each side... hard to explain. I sometimes use 5bt hand movements with a single wrap.

Johathan did we meet before? At rhythm and vines 03/04 maybe? I think i pm'd you before?

Posted: 10th Apr 2006
dont remember sorry, dont think you messaged me, i dont think i ever met you............................
but i think i met someone who knows you (if your around ackl city), they soon gave up telling how great it all was when we got round to jamming

so i absolutely agree with you, 4 poi arent necessarily much harder than 2. i guess when your wrapping the poi its to give you a good lead?

but why do 4 poi and say its all good ect when actually, id be pretty dissapointed by what you could teach me about 4 poi moves. if you need to do wraps to make your moves easier or get an extra spin i suggest practising harder or learn how to move your feet to facilitate better movement. keep you elbows in and make sure your foot work is up there. i had a look at some of your other piccies.......................maybe a straighter back would help 2


i dont know why you would limit the amount of moves you have with two one handed butterflies by using the two poi as a staff instead.

years ago (like 5 or so) i had a good old debate with phunky, so im not going to enter into it with you. until you can stand infront of me and do the things with butterflies that i know how to do (like swapping leading fingers ect) then you cant tell me two onehanded butterflies are lame and expect me to take you seriously (fyi saying you can on the post wont cut it, i dont think you can). its hard and old school, thats why not many people can do it and prefer to do things like straight weaves; im unimpressed by this attitude; it shows a lack of maturity in your cognitions which will be reflected in your posture, breathing, movements and by how much you can admit that you cant do, there fore ultimately affecting how much you can learn from others outside your immediate fire clique

perhaps you can explain to us all how to do a two butterfly weave?
dont forget there are two ways of doing a split time butterfly, each has a slightly different pattern of footwork when you use them as a weave, one aggressive the other defensive

with an attitude like that im sure youll give it a stab. (heres a hint, its nothing like a normal weave so dont try bluff your way through)

actually i saw a few maori doing 4 poi at the commonwealth games, but thats about it. and then they just stood there, not really doing much but nonetheless contributing to the performance. i thought it was fantastic; im not sure i can take your comments in the spirit they were made ( they key words here being get over yourself)

a few friends remember their grandmothers ect doing 4 poi as a fighting art.


and now the awful truth, i suck hard with one poi in each hand, its not that i tangle ect, more like everyone has gone off and figured out all these primo moves, but ive been plugging away with two butterflies.........i realised early on that weaving two poi in one hand was just like staffs.

lol i remember a few comments like 'dont you know any other moves' at a fire night i went too. i didnt, but then again i didnt have my poi with me.......fair enough comment i thought

finally, two butterflies is great training for two swords, i guess thats why im so particular about technique/footwork ect. i realise that its not everyones game but im biased heavily towards what i like doing.

please note that i make no mention of if i think weaving 4 poi like dragon or using like me is more fun, cause its up to the individual.........
or whether its technically better, cause as a community we all appreciate what other people can bring too the posts to appreciate what we already know and what we can learn. but yeah, aside from wraps weaving two poi in one hand is like a staff.
yawn, so last decade for me

its not poi unless its fun. its no fun to be hearing that what one likes doing is lame.

to be honest guys, this is the classic pattern of debate about 4 poi: its been raging for years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

butterflies or weaves?; 4 poi or two?

remember dragon, the initial post in this thread was asking for advice, and not intending to spark debate about how much better than the rest one of us is, nor to identify which of the ways of using poi is lamer than the rest.

Posted: 10th Apr 2006
hmm... i cant realy follow the disscusion, i know what the butterflies look like, but how about weaves? is it meteor style? is it butterflies put thogether i a weave-like pattern?

are there any videos somewhere with 4 poi weave? or infact any video clip with some good 4 poi spinning?

Posted: 10th Apr 2006
o.k. as much as im tempted to jealously guard this little tit bit of info................................. it was drawn to my attention years ago by a friend.

o.k. say you have a butterfly with both poi meeting at the top, moving towards eachother. youre moving your hand and essentially have your palm up at the end of each rotation.

now then i want you to notice which poi string is going in front. maybe you didnt realise that you can change which poi is leading (i mean which string is in front) by moving your wrist.

this looks no different to just standing there doing the normal butterfly, your just moving your forearm a bit, and your wrist.

this is what id call a one handed single butterfly weave, the poi are in fact weaving back and forth in front of eachother................................

woop de doo you may say, but to do the two handed butterfly weave (and most of the other butterfly moves) you have to be able to do this......................

to weave two butterflies you have to change leading poi with each hand, as well as crossing your arms at the right times.........................youve gotta be joking (or something else) to say its not much harder than 2 poi

this little move here, once perfected opens up a lot of other new moves.......

why did i write it?
well i thought id better get over my self lol


so back to more constructive 4 poi moves

for starters, if you turn 180 and bring the poi over your shoulder the other 180 will need the poi to come under your shoulder. vice versa.........

think about it, you get 4 turns.................

then you can think about bringing the poi under, then under again. vice versa............
another 4 turns
nothing to do with the onehanded weave at this stage, just practise the basics, get ready for sore arms lol

footwork.......... very important you guys can try and see what works for you, im happy to suggest or comment.
elbows in at all cost!!!!!
but yeah, dont expect to be able to do it overnight. one of the major hurdles as i recall was learning how to start two butterflies by yourself......

there must be videos of people doing 4 poi

burncat forgive my reluctance to share my moves....................
in the past i have to luke warm reception; i like my style of 4 poi, i had no help developing it bar my martial arts training so im kinda protective about the secrets...lol

not very community minded i feel compelled to admit

Posted: 11th Apr 2006
Im Totally insulted (Mad rant)
(Im not sure what to type here if i play passive ill be attacked if i try to defend myself ill be attacked)

First;
Forgive me if i totally insulted you, by telling you that your fav move was lame. But i did NOT make personal attacks on you or say you are full of she@t. If you had watched my old fire video; it clearly had 2poi 1 hand and both 4poi weave and 4poi ttn ON FIRE. (Performed very badly on odd poi) Hence that picture; you know the one where i "bluff your way through" " back is not straight ""and i cant get over myself!?!"

Second you talk about how long you have been doing it! Like that rates you or something dont want to waste my time tellin how long iv been doing this, to try and impress you. What do i care who you think you are or WHAT you learn off me or anyone or who i impress, cause the only person that i want to impress is ME! Obviously you never meet anyone i know cause im not JAFA.

When i goto Haka i see chlidren en mass all spining 4poi flys; THAT is why i call it lame; not because YOU think its cool.

You and I seem(ed) to be some of the few people who want(ed) to really talk about it; My 4poi is not great and im no master (unlike yourself :P ), i will always strive to learn; but your attitude and your attacks on me make me feel its a waste of time. I was hoping for somone likeminded to bounce ideas; its seems tho, that your mind is concrete. Im disapointed your not the Jon i meet. Not everyone here is a noob you know? Some people here may even have started poi before YOU

I could post some moves but why bother; you would just tell me i cant really do it. If you know everything already why are you even here?

You have totally insulted me and what i really feel like saying is :
"How about i come up there and you can say it to my face!?!"

Posted: 11th Apr 2006
if you do, can you film it?

T

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

Posted: 11th Apr 2006
dragon, 7 your most welcome

ha ha

at least i can spell your name right...........................

(why on earth did ya have to use a semi colon.....lol;)



youve probably got a lot to contribute to this thread, so out with it buddy i think were all waiting for some detailed explanaitions of good moves. prove me wrong, make me look bad, show everyone what a complete pillok i actually am but for gods sake dont stop the momentum now were all finally going places lol years and years ive been waiting



nah i didnt say how id been doing poi , just 4 poi so i dont accept your point on that one.



i hope i havent insulted your sense of mana too much



i think the fact that you can do 4 poi is fantastic, not many people can. im sorry but i dont understand the explanations you have given......................

saying its not that much harder than 2 poi just makes me wonder what on earth your'e up to; what on earth would you have us do with our feet! you of all people should understand that there is no 4 poi without good footwork!. even your pictures show you stepping!! absolutely fantastic



thats the truth. 4 poi used as weapons(depending on which tribe u listen 2). they have a complete system of moves............ many kapa haka dances contain the basic elements of this footwork. theres all sorts of stuff there. u should be telling us how it goes (lol maybe you wouldve if i hadnt annoyed u)

therwise its just lame 4 poi flys



sure you maybe able to flick into it at will with ease

100% of the time, but i dont think it was always so.



yes my mind is concrete....... i believe i spelled that out. i also make no apologies for it. o.k? im happy with what i do. im also happy with what u do. ive got nothing to prove here (see how little i actually put posts up?)



surely if i was as bad as my post indicates id be shooting my mouth of all the time. nah i just save it all up for special occaisions



much like i realise i dont know what your talking about with the names of your moves you probably dont with mine. you do haka? i do ki cheon mun. you say tomata i say tomatoe.



but was it the chicken or the egg dragon 7? hmmmm



good to see you recognise me as a master, i feel thouroughly vindicated now...... (can i get over myself??lol) - im guessing you guys as the jury are still out on that one!!!



and i was considering saying i was a bit harsh (esp if your not a jaffa) (thats an outrageous comment lol)



f*#Ck*n JAFA's; thats where my bad attitude springs from



o god, did i say that outloud lol i do beleive so!!!!!!



but if your gonna be all threatening i guess i'll be waiting for you to get here and be all up in my face.

to show us sme of your moves. just cause your pissed at me dont stop from teaching everyone else (get over yourself lol). if you write descriptions of the moves including footwork ect then im sure we'll all learn something.



but we learn nothing from i' can do that' 'thats lame' 'thats easy'



and also dare i say 'im offended' i didnt really say anything on this post, and wasnt really gonna until i saw your comments. forgive me for interpreting what you said as being cocky and not really very helpful.



so hit us with some moves........ not a bad attitude

i promise if ive already named a move and you call a different move by the same name i wont say a peep.



well?

im sure youve got what it takes to impress Dragon 7




EDITED_BY: jonathan (1144810424)

Posted: 11th Apr 2006
I dont need to impress u man

To be totally honest with you, there are some awsome amazing people who post here. Some of them i would really like to meet; like that guy who posted above you. NX . Or any number of legendary spinners/ people... i was hoping you were one of them. Maybe im mistaken. Sorry

I dont have the energy to get draged into an argumet and lose my head and say things that i would usually never say... so ill try to wipe away the negativity by talkin poi. If you want to diss me can you do it via pm

4poi: For me i like 4 short poi; like from hand up to just past my forearm/ elbow; because short seems eaiser to me and less danger; however i dont have short fire poi only superlong Playing 4superlong poi inside is time for new lightshades.

Grip: I have an "original" grip. I use to hold both the strings between fingers. Now instead i hold one poi with my index finger; and the other poi with my little finger. Some say its cheating; but there are advantages to both methods. The lil finger method allows the poi to seperate eaiser if they get tangles. My claws/hands are semi-open when i spin.

Moves: Im working reels wth 4; same direction seems eaiser but reels are easy to change direction. Right hand starts, little finger poi goes bth followed by the index finger poi, they turn and go btb and then turn and come back in front. Then I try to get the left hand clean, then i start both at the same time. I find once they get going its eaiser for me to just enter weave and then back out to reel again. (reels take turns at being infornt and btb) Actually opposite dir reels are mackin aswell.

Steps: I draw 1/2 circles with my feet, leaving patterns in sand, im not sure the traditional asian names. Usually my 1/2 circles forward almost inline with my left before curving back to the right again. Stoping infront of the left foot nearly 2' and 1' apart. (im trying this backwards, much more fun) Other MA stuff i use is leg raises. Right foot comes up to meet left knee etc and then i usually go into (see above) or stomps or turns.

I use haka footwork with short jumps, hops and turns. That uses some hip movement which can look nice.

Posted: 11th Apr 2006
cool, some helpful advice for people who are wanting to learn 4 poi. from someone who knows how.

did you send me a pm with some 'mac talking' or something?

i havent read it, im not sure i want to. why would i diss you in private? why when i could do it here if i was that way inclined. no, pm is for sharing secrets, organising meetings. and maybe we will meet, but not if you threaten me ai?
i finally got what we all wanted out of you. some moves!!!!!!!!! thats what this post is about. not about how much i can rant and rave unecessarily, blithering gratuitously for no apparent reason other than to build up typing skills.............

obviously you were mistaken about if i was some sort of ledgend or whatever. how misguided.
lol
annoying is probably a better word for it.
im sure most will concur.
dragon 7, do you find when you do opposite reels you can lift them over your head then tuck your elbow in and bring them behind you?

i think its gonna b kinda like a fountain effect............

Posted: 12th Apr 2006
ok. again i feel a bit lost. reels; what is that?

is it some kind off meteor related move? im from sweden and dont have english as my first language so sometimes i have to ask again, hope its ok

jonathan: i tried the one hand butterfly weave but i have some troubels with it. I normaly do my butterflys with the index finger uppwards and when i now try with the palm upwards and then change leading poi the string (littelfinger poi)goes againts the root off my thumb (dont realy know how to explain..) and cause off this that string will be shorter than the index finger string. i guess that im doing some kind off error. somehow. do u know how to corret that?


dragon 7 and jonathan; i like the way this thread is now truning. spreading shiiit will not serve the art. Thanks for your tips! hopfully i can give some to u too someday...

Posted: 12th Apr 2006
lol,

apart from all the testosterone flying around here this thread makes me want to learn 4 poi.

seeing as ive mastered two....

T

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

Posted: 12th Apr 2006
jesus Nx, thats what got us in this mess in the first place LOL

burn cat, youll have to convince dragon to share his knowledge about reels, i think he's got that aspect sussed.

as for the butterfly.......
i think it dont really work unless you have
1) superlong poi
2) superlong poi tied together in the middle (they should come up to about eye level when held by one end)
3) bendy bendy limbs

i hold my poi basically between my first and second knuckles........ its helpful to be able to move up and down from the centre not a bit to keep things moving.

some suggestions to get it started

stand there with your right palm up, poi draped across

give a flick with the right most poi to get it over the top of the arc, then with the poi you havent flicked, you kinda yank it so it moves up over the arc as well.....
(there have been lots of explanations about this, so look them up if its too incoherent)

so now you can visualise doing a butterfly, with your palm up facing inwards


when the poi come to the bottom of the arc turn your wrist over (from right to left), so the palm is out, and the elbow is raised. continue moving the poi with the flow. i think its most similar to getting an extra spin from a staff in concept. it also gives probably as many possibilities as learning that move does.

its a hard one to master from scratch, your better off trying the 4/8 turns i suggested. the second lot of turns introduces this concept, although getting it to work and und4rstanding whats going on are a bit different

unsurprisingly, ive noticed that it really is how your feet move and also keeping your elbows in that makes the biggest difference

Posted: 13th Apr 2006
/me throws testosterone @ NX

jonathan It wasnt a threat; i was saying that you wouldnt talk to people like that in real life. And just because this is a forum dosn't make it ok.

Sorry i messed up my description on reels I'll re-edit later, but its the index finger leading. Reels are (i think) a type of fountain. Im using 3 seprate reels combined to make a combo and doing the combo with both hands. Im also using wraps which... i dont think i can explain in afew words sry if i get around to it ill try make a 4poi clip of what i mean.

OnewheelDave has some sick 1 handed poi and metor on his vids, Hes on col as well. I have a clip of what i call reels... but its only 2 poi, ill post it later tho so you can have a look, if you want Burncat.