Forums > Social Discussion > Intelligence Men Vs Women
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Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Ok I've done a search and maybe I'm just crap so here goes.
I heard on the radio last night that new research has "proved" (apparently) that men are more intelligent than women, the basis for this was mostly taken from kenesthetic feedback systems of the body and hand eye co-ordination levels.
Apperently men are more intelligent because we're better at darts and some such.
Some of the statistics quoted that:
Women still get more degrees than men...
Women get better exam results at school...
Women can muli-task (see my gallery for male proof)
Men on average did better in IQ tests
Men are generally the discoverers of new medicines and technology (I cede that women like marie curie etc discover things also, I'm just stating what I heard)
So what are peoples opinions?
Do people feel there is a definate gender difference in intellect?
With the school results could it be that women are more focused and apply themselves better than males?
Are IQ tests true; just a random standardisation probably created by a man therefore more suited to a male thought process or just a downright pointless way of measuring the un-measurable.
I don't want to open up a fight between men and women but would like to know what people think and how they would define the term "intelligence"
I personally think we are evenly matched but each gender leans towards a different "form" of intellegence but that is no means men are better at this ALL the time and women better at THAT.
So any thoughts?
Ok I've done a search and maybe I'm just crap so here goes.
I heard on the radio last night that new research has "proved" (apparently) that men are more intelligent than women, the basis for this was mostly taken from kenesthetic feedback systems of the body and hand eye co-ordination levels.
Apperently men are more intelligent because we're better at darts and some such.
Some of the statistics quoted that:
Women still get more degrees than men...
Women get better exam results at school...
Women can muli-task (see my gallery for male proof)
Men on average did better in IQ tests
Men are generally the discoverers of new medicines and technology (I cede that women like marie curie etc discover things also, I'm just stating what I heard)
So what are peoples opinions?
Do people feel there is a definate gender difference in intellect?
With the school results could it be that women are more focused and apply themselves better than males?
Are IQ tests true; just a random standardisation probably created by a man therefore more suited to a male thought process or just a downright pointless way of measuring the un-measurable.
I don't want to open up a fight between men and women but would like to know what people think and how they would define the term "intelligence"
I personally think we are evenly matched but each gender leans towards a different "form" of intellegence but that is no means men are better at this ALL the time and women better at THAT.
So any thoughts?
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,384 posts
Location: mancunian, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,384 posts
Location: mancunian, United Kingdom
Posted:
so those with klinefelters are lucky, and those with the extra y, which has a link to criminals are less intelligent? theres another syndrome which i cant remember right now.
"In some cases, XYY males show learning difficulties, with slightly lowered intelligence scores for the group compared with XY males. They may have delayed speech development and have difficulties in communication." here from
i so wanna jump on this bandwagon but im tired, and dont wanna say anything incorrect, so ill be back!
Written by:
Kyri, here's a link: http:\\news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4355355.stm
so those with klinefelters are lucky, and those with the extra y, which has a link to criminals are less intelligent? theres another syndrome which i cant remember right now.
"In some cases, XYY males show learning difficulties, with slightly lowered intelligence scores for the group compared with XY males. They may have delayed speech development and have difficulties in communication." here from
i so wanna jump on this bandwagon but im tired, and dont wanna say anything incorrect, so ill be back!
Disclaimer:im not responsible for what i say or do whether it be before,during and after drinking alcoholic substances (owned by BMVC).
Creater of Jenisms(TM)
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SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,384 posts
Location: mancunian, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,384 posts
Location: mancunian, United Kingdom
Posted:
and and btw i voted yes
i know i know they are equal but whats the harm
and and btw i voted yes
i know i know they are equal but whats the harm
Disclaimer:im not responsible for what i say or do whether it be before,during and after drinking alcoholic substances (owned by BMVC).
Creater of Jenisms(TM)
Virginity like bubble,one prick all gone.
GOLD Member
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Posted:
If men are so intelligent - why did you have to ask, eh mynci? eh? eh? lol
If men are so intelligent - why did you have to ask, eh mynci? eh? eh? lol
Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
If women are more intelligent miss tinkly you would have read i voted neither
Jenna.... you voted yes!!! the options were Men, Women or neither.
*pokes jenna and tammie... but not in THAT way*
If women are more intelligent miss tinkly you would have read i voted neither
Jenna.... you voted yes!!! the options were Men, Women or neither.
*pokes jenna and tammie... but not in THAT way*
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
SILVER Member
with added berries
1,365 posts
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
with added berries
1,365 posts
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
Posted:
I don't think you can say one sex is more intelligent then the other. Its such a hugely sweeping statement there is no way of proving it. For a start is this just based on the western world or does it include the whole world, including places where women do not recieve the same education oppertunities.
I'm not convinced by screeches argument at all, as due to inequality of society, particulary in the past, women would not be given the chance to express their genius if they have it, and I also think more women choose to bring up their family than advance their career. Plus I don't believe that you can quantify all forms of intelligence in an individual as one number. If that was so you wouldn't be able to test for dyslexia in the way they do where they compare the different forms of intelligence within an individual, to find the weaker areas.
There are so many enviromental issues that affect intelligence. For instance, it has been suggested by some that if you do lots of puzzles you can improve your IQ score. Also things like eating certain foods or listening to classical music have been said to prove intelligence.
Until we fully understand human intelligence, which we clearly don't from the number of theories around, you cannot prove anything.
p.s. Doc- I reckon the number of women in pediactrics is for social reasons rather than anything else, and for the same reasons that there is a shortage of male primary school teachers in Britain.
I don't think you can say one sex is more intelligent then the other. Its such a hugely sweeping statement there is no way of proving it. For a start is this just based on the western world or does it include the whole world, including places where women do not recieve the same education oppertunities.
I'm not convinced by screeches argument at all, as due to inequality of society, particulary in the past, women would not be given the chance to express their genius if they have it, and I also think more women choose to bring up their family than advance their career. Plus I don't believe that you can quantify all forms of intelligence in an individual as one number. If that was so you wouldn't be able to test for dyslexia in the way they do where they compare the different forms of intelligence within an individual, to find the weaker areas.
There are so many enviromental issues that affect intelligence. For instance, it has been suggested by some that if you do lots of puzzles you can improve your IQ score. Also things like eating certain foods or listening to classical music have been said to prove intelligence.
Until we fully understand human intelligence, which we clearly don't from the number of theories around, you cannot prove anything.
p.s. Doc- I reckon the number of women in pediactrics is for social reasons rather than anything else, and for the same reasons that there is a shortage of male primary school teachers in Britain.
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Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
Posted:
There isn't an option for 'mu' but that's what I'd pick, as the question can't be answered properly unless the term 'intelligent' is properly defined. That won't happen as intelligence is made up of so many different facets, and any selection of how those should be balanced to make up a value for intelligence would be completely arbitrary.
Even when taking it as being "the ability to make conscious choices that give the greatest chance of survival" the balance of skills that would best make up the optimum would vary depending on the environment.
Men and women have developed different sets of skills due to evolutionary reasons. To ensure the geatest chance of survival of the species, the largest possible number of people must be born to improve the chances of surviving environmental conditions. Women, being the only ones capable of giving birth, and only once about every year, are far more valuable to the survival of the species through sustained population growth than men, who can father a child far more often (in otherwords men are pretty disposable). It is for this reason that men ended up with skills that would put them into more dangerous situations, like looking for resources and defending the group from threats, while women would be protected and spend more time looking after the young, the injured or the elderly, although they would also grow or forage for food within a territory that had been explored and made reasonably safe.
The world today is totally dominated by the male way of thinking. You only have to look at how the lack of balance between traditional male and female dominated fields is causing problems. Just look at the priority governments give to defence and the discovery and control of resources, while neglecting education and healthcare.
No one way of thinking, be it typically male or female is better than the other, they are both required in balance for the system to work properly.
--------
To join Mensa you need to be in the top 2% as defined by an IQ test, although the IQ value that is differs depending on the test, from 130-148 (link).
The differences between higher functioning autism and Aspergers syndrome are mainly developmental, and focussed on language. Someone who is autistic can become higher functioning when they develop language skills, although there is a delay that is not prevalent in Aspergers syndrome. Also, Aspergers syndrome has IQs that vary from average to above average, while classic autism can have low, normal or high IQs, usually dependant on language skills.
The statistics show that the genetic cause of autism comes from the mother in men (and either the mother or father in women). It being a defect in the X chromosome. It only affects females when both of their X chromosomes are affected.
This means that being an aspie makes it very hard to find a girlfriend you can relate to, as most non aspies aren't as capable of the same level of lateral thinking, and have a very different view of the world.
I'll add that neither lateral or linear thinking are better than the other, just better at different things. Coming up with a quick yes/no answer is a lot harder with lateral thinking, because it considers more of the factors affecting the final answer.
There isn't an option for 'mu' but that's what I'd pick, as the question can't be answered properly unless the term 'intelligent' is properly defined. That won't happen as intelligence is made up of so many different facets, and any selection of how those should be balanced to make up a value for intelligence would be completely arbitrary.
Even when taking it as being "the ability to make conscious choices that give the greatest chance of survival" the balance of skills that would best make up the optimum would vary depending on the environment.
Men and women have developed different sets of skills due to evolutionary reasons. To ensure the geatest chance of survival of the species, the largest possible number of people must be born to improve the chances of surviving environmental conditions. Women, being the only ones capable of giving birth, and only once about every year, are far more valuable to the survival of the species through sustained population growth than men, who can father a child far more often (in otherwords men are pretty disposable). It is for this reason that men ended up with skills that would put them into more dangerous situations, like looking for resources and defending the group from threats, while women would be protected and spend more time looking after the young, the injured or the elderly, although they would also grow or forage for food within a territory that had been explored and made reasonably safe.
The world today is totally dominated by the male way of thinking. You only have to look at how the lack of balance between traditional male and female dominated fields is causing problems. Just look at the priority governments give to defence and the discovery and control of resources, while neglecting education and healthcare.
No one way of thinking, be it typically male or female is better than the other, they are both required in balance for the system to work properly.
--------
To join Mensa you need to be in the top 2% as defined by an IQ test, although the IQ value that is differs depending on the test, from 130-148 (link).
The differences between higher functioning autism and Aspergers syndrome are mainly developmental, and focussed on language. Someone who is autistic can become higher functioning when they develop language skills, although there is a delay that is not prevalent in Aspergers syndrome. Also, Aspergers syndrome has IQs that vary from average to above average, while classic autism can have low, normal or high IQs, usually dependant on language skills.
The statistics show that the genetic cause of autism comes from the mother in men (and either the mother or father in women). It being a defect in the X chromosome. It only affects females when both of their X chromosomes are affected.
This means that being an aspie makes it very hard to find a girlfriend you can relate to, as most non aspies aren't as capable of the same level of lateral thinking, and have a very different view of the world.
I'll add that neither lateral or linear thinking are better than the other, just better at different things. Coming up with a quick yes/no answer is a lot harder with lateral thinking, because it considers more of the factors affecting the final answer.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
BRONZE Member
member
829 posts
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
member
829 posts
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Posted:
im smarter than the average transvestite...i think..
Super'
im smarter than the average transvestite...i think..
Super'
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
circling on the edge of madness
889 posts
Location: away with the faeries
889 posts
Location: away with the faeries
Posted:
does that make hermaphrodites twice as clever
does that make hermaphrodites twice as clever
finland finland finland
the country where i want to be
pony trekking or camping
or just watching tv
newbie
16 posts
Location: bideford, devon
16 posts
Location: bideford, devon
Posted:
www.oppresswomen.com for all your oppression needs
www.oppresswomen.com for all your oppression needs
-Rory
"The Trick to flying is to throw yourself at the ground and miss" - hitchhikkers guide
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
Haven't read this at all but IQ tests only indicate a very limited area of inteligence.
Intuition, emotional inteligence, understanding images, understanding audio, common sense, social skills, and on and on are all equally valid forms of inteligence.
So quite often people with very high IQ's aren't so inteligent in other ways, social skills, emotional maturity etc.
IQ tests were invented by brainy people ot prove how brainy they are.
For exapmple, take a native australian man. He may get a pretty low score on the iq test, but put him and a professor of oxford uni in the middle of the bush together and i know who my money would be on to survive. He has an inteligence about the land that we give no merrit to, so we don't consider him inteligent.
As for men and women - they would both consider themselves more inteligent because their perception of inteligence is different.
Haven't read this at all but IQ tests only indicate a very limited area of inteligence.
Intuition, emotional inteligence, understanding images, understanding audio, common sense, social skills, and on and on are all equally valid forms of inteligence.
So quite often people with very high IQ's aren't so inteligent in other ways, social skills, emotional maturity etc.
IQ tests were invented by brainy people ot prove how brainy they are.
For exapmple, take a native australian man. He may get a pretty low score on the iq test, but put him and a professor of oxford uni in the middle of the bush together and i know who my money would be on to survive. He has an inteligence about the land that we give no merrit to, so we don't consider him inteligent.
As for men and women - they would both consider themselves more inteligent because their perception of inteligence is different.
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
marmite and nutella sandwich
1,590 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
1,590 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Posted:
It's like asking what's better, a PC or a mac
It's like asking what's better, a PC or a mac
THE hop Pyro.
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SILVER Member
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449 posts
Location: Australia
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Intelligence isn't the same as all-knowing.
Written by: TinklePants
If men are so intelligent - why did you have to ask, eh mynci? eh? eh? lol
Intelligence isn't the same as all-knowing.
enthusiast
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
Posted:
Intelligence can get you in trouble...
Last night my dad and I were talking about my previous job, where I was fired, not based on any kind of performance issues, or not knowing how to do my job, but based on "not getting along with the team".
I actually got along with the team fine, but my boss wasn't overly intelligent, and was pretty threatened by someone coming in, being extroverted and picking everything up really quickly, then questioning the processes we had in place. It was a really badly run department, with lots of holes in processes and plenty of pointless inefficiencies.
So she gave me the flick. Problem for her was, I called her on it, and pointed out all the reasons why I was very good at my job. Taking her to task was great fun, she wanted to get out of there because I was going to win that particular argument.
Now I have another job, which requires less intelligence.. but my boss is cluey enough to know that even though I regularly use long words and think outside the norm I'm not there to rock the boat.
Intelligence can get you in trouble...
Last night my dad and I were talking about my previous job, where I was fired, not based on any kind of performance issues, or not knowing how to do my job, but based on "not getting along with the team".
I actually got along with the team fine, but my boss wasn't overly intelligent, and was pretty threatened by someone coming in, being extroverted and picking everything up really quickly, then questioning the processes we had in place. It was a really badly run department, with lots of holes in processes and plenty of pointless inefficiencies.
So she gave me the flick. Problem for her was, I called her on it, and pointed out all the reasons why I was very good at my job. Taking her to task was great fun, she wanted to get out of there because I was going to win that particular argument.
Now I have another job, which requires less intelligence.. but my boss is cluey enough to know that even though I regularly use long words and think outside the norm I'm not there to rock the boat.
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BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
I can't believe this has come up again after so long
lets be fair.. the differences in intelligence are mostly nuture based. we learn..what we are good at learning and what we enjoy learning
I can't believe this has come up again after so long
lets be fair.. the differences in intelligence are mostly nuture based.
we learn..what we are good at learning and what we enjoy learning A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
SILVER Member
fluffy mess
197 posts
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
fluffy mess
197 posts
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Mynci in the discussion forum again...God help us.
Mynci in the discussion forum again...God help us.
"I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day,and if you can source your own life from its presence.." - Oriah Mountain Dreamer
BRONZE Member
member
31 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern ireland
member
31 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern ireland
Posted:
I'm amazed that anyone is capable of showing accuratly that men are generally smarter than women or women are smarter than men. IN my experience my Father though a genius at English and Science couldn't work his way through a bill to save his life. Mum neither, i could but my Mum has a strategic mind and would generally win any game she played especially chess and draughts. My sister can work with anything technological very well but can't cook. I'm the first born in my family so i should be good at technical stuff but i'm not i'm artistic and creative and flighty. My sister is the responsible one and she is the youngest. Which is not the way it is meant to to be. All old wives tales and they should be treated as such.
I'm amazed that anyone is capable of showing accuratly that men are generally smarter than women or women are smarter than men. IN my experience my Father though a genius at English and Science couldn't work his way through a bill to save his life. Mum neither, i could but my Mum has a strategic mind and would generally win any game she played especially chess and draughts. My sister can work with anything technological very well but can't cook. I'm the first born in my family so i should be good at technical stuff but i'm not i'm artistic and creative and flighty. My sister is the responsible one and she is the youngest. Which is not the way it is meant to to be. All old wives tales and they should be treated as such.
And as the skin rips off i cherish the revolting thought That even if i quit There's not a chance in hell i'd stop- The Dresden Dolls
The truth no matter who it hurts - Transmetropolitan by Warren Ellis
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
I's all true.. I generally post a topic in here to find out opinions.
when you know how people feel about a subject you can avoid certain scenarios when talking to them...
also I like biological based discussion. As far as I am aware there is no difference between a male and female brain, it's the way they are used - Nurture what the genders are "taught" to think.
I's all true.. I generally post a topic in here to find out opinions.
when you know how people feel about a subject you can avoid certain scenarios when talking to them...
also I like biological based discussion. As far as I am aware there is no difference between a male and female brain, it's the way they are used - Nurture what the genders are "taught" to think.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
newbie
6 posts
6 posts
Posted:
Well, these are not valid forms of intelligence - intelligence is how fast and easily you can learn and think. Knowledge is an indicator of intelligence - the easier you learn things, the more you will naturally know. All the things you listed are skills, not intelligence. "Common sense" is not so common, and is an indicator of how well you can conform to society, as are your social skills.
Also, the example you brought up about surviving in the wild isn't appropriate. Surviving in the wild depends on your physical fitness and whether or not you've been trained to do so, and even the dumbest of neanderthals can do so. Also, most intellectuals have more than one passion in their lives, and who's to say that professor doesn't know everything there is to know about surviving in the wild?
Written by: TheWibbler
Intuition, emotional inteligence, understanding images, understanding audio, common sense, social skills, and on and on are all equally valid forms of inteligence.
So quite often people with very high IQ's aren't so inteligent in other ways, social skills, emotional maturity etc.
IQ tests were invented by brainy people ot prove how brainy they are.
For exapmple, take a native australian man. He may get a pretty low score on the iq test, but put him and a professor of oxford uni in the middle of the bush together and i know who my money would be on to survive. He has an inteligence about the land that we give no merrit to, so we don't consider him inteligent.
Well, these are not valid forms of intelligence - intelligence is how fast and easily you can learn and think. Knowledge is an indicator of intelligence - the easier you learn things, the more you will naturally know. All the things you listed are skills, not intelligence. "Common sense" is not so common, and is an indicator of how well you can conform to society, as are your social skills.
Also, the example you brought up about surviving in the wild isn't appropriate. Surviving in the wild depends on your physical fitness and whether or not you've been trained to do so, and even the dumbest of neanderthals can do so. Also, most intellectuals have more than one passion in their lives, and who's to say that professor doesn't know everything there is to know about surviving in the wild?
SILVER Member
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175 posts
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (UK)
member
175 posts
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (UK)
Posted:
"Also, the example you brought up about surviving in the wild isn't appropriate. Surviving in the wild depends on your physical fitness and whether or not you've been trained to do so, and even the dumbest of neanderthals can do so."
I'd have to disagree with you there... you will find that survival skills aren't solely based on physical adaptness, intellectual faculties such as visual retention play a major factor.
Although Controversial. I also believe that observation of an individual's functioning in life, rather than just laboratory/standardized testing, is necessary to understand intelligence.
"Also, the example you brought up about surviving in the wild isn't appropriate. Surviving in the wild depends on your physical fitness and whether or not you've been trained to do so, and even the dumbest of neanderthals can do so."
I'd have to disagree with you there... you will find that survival skills aren't solely based on physical adaptness, intellectual faculties such as visual retention play a major factor.
Although Controversial. I also believe that observation of an individual's functioning in life, rather than just laboratory/standardized testing, is necessary to understand intelligence.
newbie
1 post
1 post
Posted:
This seems like a battle of the haves vs the have nots. Individuals who score poorly question the validity of the test as a defence mechanism. In order to protect their self image of being "smarter than average". Also Wild animals have a higher survivability in the wild. I'm not sure I have to reiterate this, but they have a much lower interlligence than humans. Your arguement is null and void. As for wether men or women are more intelligent is comparing apples and oranges. Their Brain Chemistry differ greatly. Men are better at focusing at a single task, but lack the social skills and ability to multi task women have. But if IQ or standardized tests are being used to measure intelligence men will score higher. Over the past 30 years men have averaged 35-40 points higher on the SATs. I don't have any solid statistics for IQ except that at least for genius level IQs there is a much higher male presence. Sorry if I offended anyone, I was researching any descrepancies and happened upon this article.
This seems like a battle of the haves vs the have nots. Individuals who score poorly question the validity of the test as a defence mechanism. In order to protect their self image of being "smarter than average". Also Wild animals have a higher survivability in the wild. I'm not sure I have to reiterate this, but they have a much lower interlligence than humans. Your arguement is null and void. As for wether men or women are more intelligent is comparing apples and oranges. Their Brain Chemistry differ greatly. Men are better at focusing at a single task, but lack the social skills and ability to multi task women have. But if IQ or standardized tests are being used to measure intelligence men will score higher. Over the past 30 years men have averaged 35-40 points higher on the SATs. I don't have any solid statistics for IQ except that at least for genius level IQs there is a much higher male presence. Sorry if I offended anyone, I was researching any descrepancies and happened upon this article.
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