Forums > Social Discussion > Should Children Spin with Fire?
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
member
109 posts
Location: Back in the Future, United Kingdom
member
109 posts
Location: Back in the Future, United Kingdom
Posted:
I have a Niece who i would like to Introduce POI To....Obviously I'm not going to give her a set of Lighted Fire Poi and say:
"off you go then"
But i just wanted to get some Opinions on whether Minors should or should not use Fire.....
If they have the skill and they are supervised....is it ok......?
I have a Niece who i would like to Introduce POI To....Obviously I'm not going to give her a set of Lighted Fire Poi and say:
"off you go then"
But i just wanted to get some Opinions on whether Minors should or should not use Fire.....
If they have the skill and they are supervised....is it ok......?
It's a very interesting story, Future Boy....!
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
that is true and i'm glad you questioned it as it does need clarifying (it is not a direct analogy by any means but is the closest we can get i think).
we should mention that gymnastics and martial arts are the most established of those high-risk activities and as such, are a target for the others to aim towards.
dave, you stated that gymnastics is "supervised by experts in a controlled environment with full safety facilities" when children are introduced to it and they are exactly the stipulations (and more) that we have been suggesting create acceptable conditions under which children could be taught the fire arts.
see cody's experiences re: the precautions and methods he employed to teach his daughter.
i think the minimisation of risk seen in gymnastics, surfing etc. can be achieved for firespinning as it is today.
at the stage it is right now, i believe firespinning should be treated as seriously as, and taught in a similar fashion to surfing, motorcross, skateboarding etc. (see cody's teaching methods for a suitable solution).
i am only arguing against the kneejerk response to children spinning fire of "OH MY GOD! they are too young to do that - the parents should be ashamed of themselves."
cole. x
Written by: onewheeldave
Yeah, that makes sense; if fire arts were taught in the way that other high-risk sports are (ie supervised by experts in a controlled environment with full safety facilities), eg gymnastics, then I do believe that that would be appropriate for certain children who show high potenetial and a developed sense of responsibility.
Currently, such is not the case and is unlikely to become so in the near future though; and that is why I wanted to question the analogy of fire arts to other high-risk sports (ie not disagreeing so much as clarifying).
that is true and i'm glad you questioned it as it does need clarifying (it is not a direct analogy by any means but is the closest we can get i think).
we should mention that gymnastics and martial arts are the most established of those high-risk activities and as such, are a target for the others to aim towards.
dave, you stated that gymnastics is "supervised by experts in a controlled environment with full safety facilities" when children are introduced to it and they are exactly the stipulations (and more) that we have been suggesting create acceptable conditions under which children could be taught the fire arts.
see cody's experiences re: the precautions and methods he employed to teach his daughter.
i think the minimisation of risk seen in gymnastics, surfing etc. can be achieved for firespinning as it is today.
at the stage it is right now, i believe firespinning should be treated as seriously as, and taught in a similar fashion to surfing, motorcross, skateboarding etc. (see cody's teaching methods for a suitable solution).
i am only arguing against the kneejerk response to children spinning fire of "OH MY GOD! they are too young to do that - the parents should be ashamed of themselves."
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
well, I do not entirely agree that a supervised sport is better. every woman I have ever met who was once a serious gymnast has significant and permanent physical issues either definitely or probably stemming from her years as a gymnast. Mind you most of them were from eastern block countries, but still.
if their trainers are responsible people, then frankly I don't see much point.
actually I totally see and understand the argument of course - but "women's" (or shall we be honest and girls) gymnastics is something I get very riled about. I think it should be much more heavily controlled or even banned competitively.
well, I do not entirely agree that a supervised sport is better. every woman I have ever met who was once a serious gymnast has significant and permanent physical issues either definitely or probably stemming from her years as a gymnast. Mind you most of them were from eastern block countries, but still.
if their trainers are responsible people, then frankly I don't see much point.
actually I totally see and understand the argument of course - but "women's" (or shall we be honest and girls) gymnastics is something I get very riled about. I think it should be much more heavily controlled or even banned competitively.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
OWD, I understand your point. I have to fight my knee jeark to get defensive about a controlled environment because my environment is very controlled. But I see your point. Yes, a Gymnasium is very controlled, but what about surfing? If were searching for a good comparison, I vote for surfing. There aren't any sharks, coral, ,jellyfish, undertow or sting rays in my sealed off parkinglot.
I have a feeling fire spinning is the new skatebording or the new snowboarding. It was underground but it's getting very popular very fast. We who are here now need to shepard the new spinners toward orginizaion and controll. We've jumped through so many hoops here in Reno to be permitted, I think the city and state are running out of things to charge us for.
(p.s. Lea isn't my daughter, I'm a little too young to have a 14yo)
OWD, I understand your point. I have to fight my knee jeark to get defensive about a controlled environment because my environment is very controlled. But I see your point. Yes, a Gymnasium is very controlled, but what about surfing? If were searching for a good comparison, I vote for surfing. There aren't any sharks, coral, ,jellyfish, undertow or sting rays in my sealed off parkinglot.
I have a feeling fire spinning is the new skatebording or the new snowboarding. It was underground but it's getting very popular very fast. We who are here now need to shepard the new spinners toward orginizaion and controll. We've jumped through so many hoops here in Reno to be permitted, I think the city and state are running out of things to charge us for.
(p.s. Lea isn't my daughter, I'm a little too young to have a 14yo)
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
That's true- they could be.
It's obvious that you've got a pretty responsible viewpoint on this, as has NYC and many other people here.
But there's also a fair portion of the worldwide spinning community who have a different viewpoint- those who see their extensive spinning scars as something to brag about, who spin whilst drunk or stoned, who introduce children to fire-breathing.
That's two ends of the scale, and in between you've got the majority who fall at various places on that scale.
Written by: coleman
... when children are introduced to it and they are exactly the stipulations (and more) that we have been suggesting create acceptable conditions under which children could be taught the fire arts.
cole. x
That's true- they could be.
It's obvious that you've got a pretty responsible viewpoint on this, as has NYC and many other people here.
But there's also a fair portion of the worldwide spinning community who have a different viewpoint- those who see their extensive spinning scars as something to brag about, who spin whilst drunk or stoned, who introduce children to fire-breathing.
That's two ends of the scale, and in between you've got the majority who fall at various places on that scale.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Vanize, what about mens Gymnastics?? Are you saying it's ok for boys and men to get beet up? I actually have a seperate rant about how much worse mens gymnastics is than womens and how they should be seperate sports, but that's another thread.
Vanize, what about mens Gymnastics?? Are you saying it's ok for boys and men to get beet up? I actually have a seperate rant about how much worse mens gymnastics is than womens and how they should be seperate sports, but that's another thread.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
That's a good point Vanize.
It's easy when talking of risk to just think of the obvious injuries from falls etc, but you're right, many established arts/sports also have the long term damage from the body being pushed into adopting positions that it's not designed for.
Another example would be ballarinas and what they have to go through to do the extreme toe-stands etc.
I'm not entirely sure what effect this has on my view of this issue; I'll have to p[onder awhile- but I'm glad you brought it up.
That's a good point Vanize.
It's easy when talking of risk to just think of the obvious injuries from falls etc, but you're right, many established arts/sports also have the long term damage from the body being pushed into adopting positions that it's not designed for.
Another example would be ballarinas and what they have to go through to do the extreme toe-stands etc.
I'm not entirely sure what effect this has on my view of this issue; I'll have to p[onder awhile- but I'm glad you brought it up.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Cole, as for the air quality arguement.
I was thinking it'd be easy to compare the vapor pressure of whitegas and the air quality of New York City. I'm sure the air above a bucket of whitegas is thousands of times more filled with carcinogens than the air above New York City.
Is that an arguement worth investigating?
Cole, as for the air quality arguement.
I was thinking it'd be easy to compare the vapor pressure of whitegas and the air quality of New York City. I'm sure the air above a bucket of whitegas is thousands of times more filled with carcinogens than the air above New York City.
Is that an arguement worth investigating?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Not worth investigating unless your comparing it to the air just above a car exhaust.
Written by:
I'm sure the air above a bucket of whitegas is thousands of times more filled with carcinogens than the air above New York City.
Not worth investigating unless your comparing it to the air just above a car exhaust.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Well the air above a car exhaust is a very measurable.
Every automobile in New York City needs to have it's exhaust measured every year.
And has thousands to millions of times less ppm of toxins than above a bucket of whitegas.
Good point.
Well the air above a car exhaust is a very measurable.
Every automobile in New York City needs to have it's exhaust measured every year.
And has thousands to millions of times less ppm of toxins than above a bucket of whitegas.
Good point.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
I don't believe you, proove it.
But it's a moot point because in a well ventialted area, actual exposure to fumes from fuel is small.
Sorry for being blunt, but there painting offices in my building and I'm bathed in paint fumes right now and thinking how rediculus the whole fume arguement is in reality.
I don't believe you, proove it.
But it's a moot point because in a well ventialted area, actual exposure to fumes from fuel is small.
Sorry for being blunt, but there painting offices in my building and I'm bathed in paint fumes right now and thinking how rediculus the whole fume arguement is in reality.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
oh jesus.
i can't believe i haven't read this thread.
right.
problem 1: the people who matter i.e. the people who allow their children to spin fire irresponsibly(please note that word, i'll define it in a while) will NOT read this thread.
problem2: if you are not a childs parent, you only have so much responsibility for the child, and no matter what you say/teach/advise them yours is not the final decision.
and on to the rest.
quick bit of background:
i have taught upwards of 2500 children how to spin poi.
approximately 15 of those now spin fire. i believe each case MUST be treated individually, as all of these children are mature for their age group, and aware of the dangers of fire. In each of these childrens cases i have personally spoken with the parents. (incidentally none have spun fire before the age of about 14) and discussed fire safety with both the child and the parents to hopefully cody-acceptable levels(we have high standards in te POOKa also)
i very much hold the belief that if a kid really wants to spin fire, and knows how to spin and where to get fuel(its not hard to find out, i reackon at least half of them read hop) i would rather i taught them how to do it than they went off and tried it themselves without professional supervision. IMO not educating a child is more irresponsible than the NYC approach of an accross th board no(and don't huff and puff here NYC i have spent 3 hours reading this thread, making sure i missed not one word nor hopefully nuance of your posts, and it boils down to this: "I don't think the benefit/risk of firespinning is great enough to endanger kids. That's my point and I'm sticking to it") i love you and your approach to spinning and safety very much, and respect your professional status immensely, but your attitude here makes me very sad, and not just a little angry. yours also pele(if you are still reading this thread).
i'm not going to pick at individual posts except your last one NYC.
how often do you spend most of your day above a bucket of white gas, day in day out? I know americans don't get out in the open very often but you're holding on to a very tenuous thread there.
i know you spin fire a lot, but (modesty blanket pulled aside) i doubt you have spun nearly as much fire as i have. in fact i doubt many have, in quite the fashion i used to. for the first two and a bit years of my spinning life it was not unknown for me to spin non-stop, very aerobically for upwards of thirty-forty burns in a row(as in, burn, go out, dip, burn, go out, dip, burn etc, no pauses for catching breath, no respect for my lungs), three or four nights a week. the details of the results of this are well documented , and i gave up firespinning for several months in order to let my lungs recover. i am still unable to spin fire as much as i would like, and still get terrible headaches if overdoing it. however i truly feel this is an exception rather than a rule. many many people, with what i would consider a normal amount of fire spinning have spun for many years more than i, and suffer no adverse effects as yet(disclaimdisclaim).
i am well aware childrens bodies are still developing, and that exposure to such a thing as spinning fuel(whatever type) is probably not good, but the kids i teach love their sock poi, and probably only spin fire about once a month. I'd rather that than see them smoke, or even live in edinburgh, let alone NY or London(i had bronchitis from fumes in london, after moving from a hillside in the mountains in scotland).
furthermore, i wholeheartedly agree that if we were to censor fire-spinning due to reasons of health, i'd have trouble not letting censorship go to many other sports both high- and med-risk. i've seen manymanymany more injuries both minor and serious result from soccer than from firespinning, and before someone jumps in with a 'per capita' arguement, i'm going to cover my ass badly by saying i have no figures to back myself up, except to say that of my primary school football(soccer) team, in six years(until i left high school), 7 out of 19 were hospitalized, including myself, one with two broken legs, and all spent some period of time unavailable through injury. by comparison, i have NEVER met a person who has had to go to hospital through firespinning. fire breathing yes, fire spinning no.
i have seldom ranted in this way on hop, and i'm sorry for it:(. i am not an angry person, and having to write this makes me upset for i have not lost my temper(except at parking wardens
) for a long time.
yours, honestly
Rob
oh jesus.
i can't believe i haven't read this thread.
right.
problem 1: the people who matter i.e. the people who allow their children to spin fire irresponsibly(please note that word, i'll define it in a while) will NOT read this thread.
problem2: if you are not a childs parent, you only have so much responsibility for the child, and no matter what you say/teach/advise them yours is not the final decision.
and on to the rest.
quick bit of background:
i have taught upwards of 2500 children how to spin poi.
approximately 15 of those now spin fire. i believe each case MUST be treated individually, as all of these children are mature for their age group, and aware of the dangers of fire. In each of these childrens cases i have personally spoken with the parents. (incidentally none have spun fire before the age of about 14) and discussed fire safety with both the child and the parents to hopefully cody-acceptable levels
(we have high standards in te POOKa also)i very much hold the belief that if a kid really wants to spin fire, and knows how to spin and where to get fuel(its not hard to find out, i reackon at least half of them read hop) i would rather i taught them how to do it than they went off and tried it themselves without professional supervision. IMO not educating a child is more irresponsible than the NYC approach of an accross th board no(and don't huff and puff here NYC i have spent 3 hours reading this thread, making sure i missed not one word nor hopefully nuance of your posts, and it boils down to this: "I don't think the benefit/risk of firespinning is great enough to endanger kids. That's my point and I'm sticking to it") i love you and your approach to spinning and safety very much, and respect your professional status immensely, but your attitude here makes me very sad, and not just a little angry. yours also pele(if you are still reading this thread).
i'm not going to pick at individual posts except your last one NYC.
Written by: NYC
Cole, as for the air quality arguement.
I was thinking it'd be easy to compare the vapor pressure of whitegas and the air quality of New York City. I'm sure the air above a bucket of whitegas is thousands of times more filled with carcinogens than the air above New York City.
how often do you spend most of your day above a bucket of white gas, day in day out? I know americans don't get out in the open very often but you're holding on to a very tenuous thread there.
i know you spin fire a lot, but (modesty blanket pulled aside) i doubt you have spun nearly as much fire as i have. in fact i doubt many have, in quite the fashion i used to. for the first two and a bit years of my spinning life it was not unknown for me to spin non-stop, very aerobically for upwards of thirty-forty burns in a row(as in, burn, go out, dip, burn, go out, dip, burn etc, no pauses for catching breath, no respect for my lungs), three or four nights a week. the details of the results of this are well documented , and i gave up firespinning for several months in order to let my lungs recover. i am still unable to spin fire as much as i would like, and still get terrible headaches if overdoing it. however i truly feel this is an exception rather than a rule. many many people, with what i would consider a normal amount of fire spinning have spun for many years more than i, and suffer no adverse effects as yet(disclaimdisclaim
).i am well aware childrens bodies are still developing, and that exposure to such a thing as spinning fuel(whatever type) is probably not good, but the kids i teach love their sock poi, and probably only spin fire about once a month. I'd rather that than see them smoke, or even live in edinburgh, let alone NY or London(i had bronchitis from fumes in london, after moving from a hillside in the mountains in scotland).
furthermore, i wholeheartedly agree that if we were to censor fire-spinning due to reasons of health, i'd have trouble not letting censorship go to many other sports both high- and med-risk. i've seen manymanymany more injuries both minor and serious result from soccer than from firespinning, and before someone jumps in with a 'per capita' arguement, i'm going to cover my ass badly by saying i have no figures to back myself up, except to say that of my primary school football(soccer) team, in six years(until i left high school), 7 out of 19 were hospitalized, including myself, one with two broken legs, and all spent some period of time unavailable through injury. by comparison, i have NEVER met a person who has had to go to hospital through firespinning. fire breathing yes, fire spinning no.
i have seldom ranted in this way on hop, and i'm sorry for it:(. i am not an angry person, and having to write this makes me upset for i have not lost my temper(except at parking wardens
) for a long time.yours, honestly
Rob
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
Geologists do it in the dirt................ 
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
for anyone who can't be bothered with most of that rant, the important bit is in bold about a third of the way through.
xR
for anyone who can't be bothered with most of that rant, the important bit is in bold about a third of the way through.
xR
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I agree.
I gave some examples in this thread of how I would be comfortable with some case by case examples. Working with Te Pooka would certainly be one of them.
I can't imagine a case example where an 8 year old would be qualified in my opinion and so that does still bother me.
I would never let a child spin fire unless I had a lot more information on it. But I would certainly trust professionals like Te Pooka to have done that research.
My default will always be "No" in allowing any child to engage in any high risk activity. Until I learn ALL the facts of the risk. I do not believe that many of the parents have done that research and that I still find irresponsible.
If there are parents and professionals out there who have done the research, and logically concluded that the age/maturity/safety/risk minimization all add up, then I can now see it as a case by case basis. I believe it exists in places like Te Pooka. I've just never seen it.
Written by: bluecat
i would rather i taught them how to do it than they went off and tried it themselves without professional supervision. IMO not educating a child is more irresponsible than the NYC approach of an accross th board no
I agree.
I gave some examples in this thread of how I would be comfortable with some case by case examples. Working with Te Pooka would certainly be one of them.
I can't imagine a case example where an 8 year old would be qualified in my opinion and so that does still bother me.
I would never let a child spin fire unless I had a lot more information on it. But I would certainly trust professionals like Te Pooka to have done that research.
My default will always be "No" in allowing any child to engage in any high risk activity. Until I learn ALL the facts of the risk. I do not believe that many of the parents have done that research and that I still find irresponsible.
If there are parents and professionals out there who have done the research, and logically concluded that the age/maturity/safety/risk minimization all add up, then I can now see it as a case by case basis. I believe it exists in places like Te Pooka. I've just never seen it.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
ok.
reply by pm tomorrow.
bed now.
R
ok.
reply by pm tomorrow.
bed now.
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Actually, I said that pretty clearly earlier.
Twice.
The bold statement you quoted was an oversimplification (for those that were misquoting me) which I said it was.
Actually, I said that pretty clearly earlier.
Written by: NYCWritten by: onewheeldave
Yeah, that makes sense; if fire arts were taught in the way that other high-risk sports are (ie supervised by experts in a controlled environment with full safety facilities), eg gymnastics, then I do believe that that would be appropriate for certain children who show high potenetial and a developed sense of responsibility.
I agree.
Twice.
Written by: NYC
My original point remains that I believe that it is our society's responsibility to protect children from a certain amount of risk.
It is certainly fair to debate what level that risk is. If someone wants to argue that a 17 year old should be allowed to spin fire under adult supervision, I'm fine with that. If a parent thinks there's nothing wrong with their four year old breathing fire, I'm gonna disagree.
Hopefully, we all fall somewhere in betwen.
The bold statement you quoted was an oversimplification (for those that were misquoting me) which I said it was.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
ahaa! proof hat even three hours of reading means you miss things.
sorry.
but the arguement as a whole still stands, i think, even if directionless.
ahaa! proof hat even three hours of reading means you miss things.
sorry.
but the arguement as a whole still stands, i think, even if directionless.
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
Geologists do it in the dirt................
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,092 posts
Location: In a van, United Kingdom
old hand
1,092 posts
Location: In a van, United Kingdom
Posted:
i hate coming into discussions so late.
so im only going to poke my head in, as i cant read all six pages.
But my thoughts are..
My brother who is now 11 does spin fire, and have done for two years, he juggles fire clubs, double staffs, poi and ropes i figure that its better for me to guide him, rather than try and block it away from him.
there you go, he loves fire, and really enjoys spinning.
i hate coming into discussions so late.
so im only going to poke my head in, as i cant read all six pages.
But my thoughts are..
My brother who is now 11 does spin fire, and have done for two years, he juggles fire clubs, double staffs, poi and ropes i figure that its better for me to guide him, rather than try and block it away from him.
there you go, he loves fire, and really enjoys spinning.
passing through, this world still lives.
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
To add some thoughts I have about children. I would like rather change the question of the topic to:
Can children spin with Poi?
Let say, fire is and element that brings and takes, bring new way of feeling the spinnig. Gives adrenaline and energy to feel the power deeeply and takes breath. We are so connected with fire, I were siting around it when I was young, it gives me feeling that Im save in safety. And other people round me feel it when they are watching the circles.
I think important is when children understand what fire is and meen. By the way Poi have its own energy and power comming from several sources no matter how they look like.
Children can spin Poi
love nad light,
:R
To add some thoughts I have about children. I would like rather change the question of the topic to:
Can children spin with Poi?
Let say, fire is and element that brings and takes, bring new way of feeling the spinnig. Gives adrenaline and energy to feel the power deeeply and takes breath. We are so connected with fire, I were siting around it when I was young, it gives me feeling that Im save in safety. And other people round me feel it when they are watching the circles.
I think important is when children understand what fire is and meen. By the way Poi have its own energy and power comming from several sources no matter how they look like.
Children can spin Poi
love nad light,
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
member
99 posts
Location: west coast
99 posts
Location: west coast
Posted:
An example of children spinning fire:
I was recently in Khao Lak, Thailand, working doing some Tsunami relief projects. I got involved with orphaned/ displaced childen, doing activities in the camps. I had noticed right away that their behaviour had been profoundly negatively effected by their trauma. Play was subdued, and often violent, disorganized. Not knowing what else to do, I started by showing them Poi spinning...They were crazy for it, as you might guess!
Pics of that expereince got back to a Thai pal in Bangkok, who makes Poi... He sent a ton of spinning toys, (all kinds) juggling balls, diablo, devils sticks, the works !!!, down to the region along with a couple of juggling/poi friends. We took them out to distribute in about six of the camps. Wow!!! It was like watching a refugee camp turn into a three ring circus in minutes flat! We were quite overwhelmed, to see kids that had been all dejected and glum burst into activity and laughter...
Inspiring.
Some of them got pretty good in a short time with just my minimal instruction...
Oud,the guy that makes the poi,
saw the pictures, received the thank you notes that the children made for him, and decided to get involved directly, going down to teach workshop in circus skills. The idea was that the children would have a marketable skill, performing, and even eventually making poi for sale. The goals of circus skills development was to teach them coordination, confidence, and give them a sense of control, while having a blast! All very important things after a disaster and the confusion they were living in.
Recently I got pictures from him of the first workshop, with the young children doing circus stands, acrobatic kind of stuff, and yes, here is the point :
Spinning Fire!
In week of training, he got them using fire,safely and successfully, spinning quite well actually!I was so impressed by seeing the same kids who were quite lost and sad, transformed:all happy and confident. It was three days after looking at the pictures that I noticed:
** they were all playing on the beach!****
Weeks earlier I could not have gotten those kids even near the ocean ,period. They were terrified of another tsunami, and drowning in their own memories of the event. Oud not only got them learning something challenging and productive, working as a group, learning to play responsibily with fire, but he got them doing it on the beach!
And these were a pretty young bunch too.
The story may seem a little off topic, but my point is that when taught properly, poi, and yes, fire spinning, is in fact suitable for some young kids. In fact, in some cases more than suitable,absolutely beneficial !!!! -- in many unexpected ways.
These kids needed to learn about facing fears, control, physical and mental discipline and responsibility- in a fun way! And so they did... I am so grateful for Oud for providing them that opportunity. They were so full of joy, I wish you could see their faces.
My own feeling on the matter is just that children should of course be taught by an adult, and supervised, so that they at least know what is a safe approach to fire spinning. Many are more than capable of handling the risks and would benefit from being trusted with the responsibility. People can always hurt themselves, regardless of age, but sometimes the benefits of learning something simply outweigh the risks.
Just thought I would share that concrete example with ya all!
smiles,
Andrea
--------------------
wherever you go, there you are
An example of children spinning fire:
I was recently in Khao Lak, Thailand, working doing some Tsunami relief projects. I got involved with orphaned/ displaced childen, doing activities in the camps. I had noticed right away that their behaviour had been profoundly negatively effected by their trauma. Play was subdued, and often violent, disorganized. Not knowing what else to do, I started by showing them Poi spinning...They were crazy for it, as you might guess!
Pics of that expereince got back to a Thai pal in Bangkok, who makes Poi... He sent a ton of spinning toys, (all kinds) juggling balls, diablo, devils sticks, the works !!!, down to the region along with a couple of juggling/poi friends. We took them out to distribute in about six of the camps. Wow!!! It was like watching a refugee camp turn into a three ring circus in minutes flat! We were quite overwhelmed, to see kids that had been all dejected and glum burst into activity and laughter...
Inspiring.
Some of them got pretty good in a short time with just my minimal instruction...
Oud,the guy that makes the poi,
saw the pictures, received the thank you notes that the children made for him, and decided to get involved directly, going down to teach workshop in circus skills. The idea was that the children would have a marketable skill, performing, and even eventually making poi for sale. The goals of circus skills development was to teach them coordination, confidence, and give them a sense of control, while having a blast! All very important things after a disaster and the confusion they were living in.Recently I got pictures from him of the first workshop, with the young children doing circus stands, acrobatic kind of stuff, and yes, here is the point :
Spinning Fire!
In week of training, he got them using fire,safely and successfully, spinning quite well actually!I was so impressed by seeing the same kids who were quite lost and sad, transformed:all happy and confident. It was three days after looking at the pictures that I noticed:
** they were all playing on the beach!****
Weeks earlier I could not have gotten those kids even near the ocean ,period. They were terrified of another tsunami, and drowning in their own memories of the event. Oud not only got them learning something challenging and productive, working as a group, learning to play responsibily with fire, but he got them doing it on the beach!
And these were a pretty young bunch too.
The story may seem a little off topic, but my point is that when taught properly, poi, and yes, fire spinning, is in fact suitable for some young kids. In fact, in some cases more than suitable,absolutely beneficial !!!! -- in many unexpected ways.
These kids needed to learn about facing fears, control, physical and mental discipline and responsibility- in a fun way! And so they did... I am so grateful for Oud for providing them that opportunity. They were so full of joy, I wish you could see their faces.
My own feeling on the matter is just that children should of course be taught by an adult, and supervised, so that they at least know what is a safe approach to fire spinning. Many are more than capable of handling the risks and would benefit from being trusted with the responsibility. People can always hurt themselves, regardless of age, but sometimes the benefits of learning something simply outweigh the risks.
Just thought I would share that concrete example with ya all!
smiles,
Andrea
--------------------
wherever you go, there you are
wherever you go, there you are
BRONZE Member
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
Posted:
*Gets warm fuzzy glow and smiles*
*Gets warm fuzzy glow and smiles*
Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows
member
75 posts
Location: Malaeimi, Am. Samoa
75 posts
Location: Malaeimi, Am. Samoa
Posted:
Another two cents in this:
THinking about what "can" happen is pretty scary, but I have four kids - a daughter who is "of age", who does fireknife (I worry more about her than my boys, and she uses "safe" fuel" and does a "safe" routine).
My 12 year old boy is a fireknife champion in his division. Not long ago he was handed a set of doubles which had not been shaken off and were full of white gas. Of course - he caught on fire as soon as he began his routine, but he knew what to do and, really, white gas does not burn long without a source - he suffered only one or two very small cuts (not really burns). He was back spinning fire the next week at our local hotel and the week after he competed at the PCC Competition in Hawaii.
My oldest is 15 and holds the Am Samoa title - he is among the top three junior dancers in the world. My middle son holds two world class third place titles.
To top it off - the person who won the senior divison title at PCC this year was a 15 year old - he competes on a regular basis in the same divisons as my sons, but decided to move up and see if he could snag the money. He beat out a lot of very seasoned dancers.
Now - a disclaimer - my husband and I are VERY strict about safety - we have a burn kit at every performance and the boys are well taught about fire safety.
Personally, I see a lot of older dancers using gasoline, smoking around the dipping buckets, and even putting their knives out by dipping them into buckets of whitegas.(Coleman's)
It's all about responsibility - not age.
The Very Old.......
Teejay
Another two cents in this:
THinking about what "can" happen is pretty scary, but I have four kids - a daughter who is "of age", who does fireknife (I worry more about her than my boys, and she uses "safe" fuel" and does a "safe" routine).
My 12 year old boy is a fireknife champion in his division. Not long ago he was handed a set of doubles which had not been shaken off and were full of white gas. Of course - he caught on fire as soon as he began his routine, but he knew what to do and, really, white gas does not burn long without a source - he suffered only one or two very small cuts (not really burns). He was back spinning fire the next week at our local hotel and the week after he competed at the PCC Competition in Hawaii.
My oldest is 15 and holds the Am Samoa title - he is among the top three junior dancers in the world. My middle son holds two world class third place titles.
To top it off - the person who won the senior divison title at PCC this year was a 15 year old - he competes on a regular basis in the same divisons as my sons, but decided to move up and see if he could snag the money. He beat out a lot of very seasoned dancers.
Now - a disclaimer - my husband and I are VERY strict about safety - we have a burn kit at every performance and the boys are well taught about fire safety.
Personally, I see a lot of older dancers using gasoline, smoking around the dipping buckets, and even putting their knives out by dipping them into buckets of whitegas.(Coleman's)
It's all about responsibility - not age.
The Very Old.......
Teejay
SILVER Member
Are you up for it??
349 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Are you up for it??
349 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
I realise this is a bit old but "bump" some of this is worth reading,
I have just started fire poi bout 6 months ago & have 2 kids (aged 7 & 9) who are dead keen on learning. I have agreed to this but only with learning the moves NOT with them being lit.
I also have a friend (Very experienced - 7-8 years worth) willing to teach my 9 yo son how to spin staff. It will be a fair while before either of my children will be allowed to spin with fire, but in any case, my daughter (aged 7) will probably be allowed to before her older brother, why? because she naturally has more co-ordination than him.
It will very much depend on the ability that either of them have before I even consider it. Probably 13 - 15 age group, I have yet to see.
Myself & my children all have an appreciation for what can happen as my friend who's previously mentioned burnt himself a couple of years back burnt himself with Pegasol, so my kids will know ALL fire safety stuff before they will do it. Anyways, I'm sure they'll have lots of fun - UNDER PROPER SUPERVISION.
I realise this is a bit old but "bump" some of this is worth reading,
I have just started fire poi bout 6 months ago & have 2 kids (aged 7 & 9) who are dead keen on learning. I have agreed to this but only with learning the moves NOT with them being lit.
I also have a friend (Very experienced - 7-8 years worth) willing to teach my 9 yo son how to spin staff. It will be a fair while before either of my children will be allowed to spin with fire, but in any case, my daughter (aged 7) will probably be allowed to before her older brother, why? because she naturally has more co-ordination than him.
It will very much depend on the ability that either of them have before I even consider it. Probably 13 - 15 age group, I have yet to see.
Myself & my children all have an appreciation for what can happen as my friend who's previously mentioned burnt himself a couple of years back burnt himself with Pegasol, so my kids will know ALL fire safety stuff before they will do it. Anyways, I'm sure they'll have lots of fun - UNDER PROPER SUPERVISION.
Are you up for it?;)
BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
the youngest poi spinner i have met working lit was 9. the youngest fire breather i know of is 13. it all comes down to responsibility, safe practice, and supervision.
the youngest poi spinner i have met working lit was 9. the youngest fire breather i know of is 13. it all comes down to responsibility, safe practice, and supervision.
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Given the nature of this eight-page discussion which has covered in considerable depth the issues of children and fire; IMO what you've said there is a somewhat simplistic and pointless thing to post on page 8 of the thread.
Written by: Frederick the Reckless
the youngest poi spinner i have met working lit was 9. the youngest fire breather i know of is 13. it all comes down to responsibility, safe practice, and supervision.
Given the nature of this eight-page discussion which has covered in considerable depth the issues of children and fire; IMO what you've said there is a somewhat simplistic and pointless thing to post on page 8 of the thread.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
as is anything else added beyond page four of the thread. and yet you replied.
as is anything else added beyond page four of the thread. and yet you replied.
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Hmmm.
Firebreathing with a 13 year old?
Please, no.
I know from 11 years experience that you'd have to almost try to hurt yourself with a firestaff. And of course learn unlit first. Poi are much more likely to hurt/set fire to you. Fuel types.. well people choose to use various fuels that increase/reduce danger enormously.
But Firebreathing.... it's all been said.
Don't.
Hmmm.
Firebreathing with a 13 year old?
Please, no.
I know from 11 years experience that you'd have to almost try to hurt yourself with a firestaff. And of course learn unlit first. Poi are much more likely to hurt/set fire to you. Fuel types.. well people choose to use various fuels that increase/reduce danger enormously.
But Firebreathing.... it's all been said.
Don't.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
certianly living up to the reckless handle.
that is easily one of the most irresponsable things I have ever read.
Written by:
the youngest fire breather i know of is 13. it all comes down to responsibility, safe practice, and supervision.
certianly living up to the reckless handle.
that is easily one of the most irresponsable things I have ever read.
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm not entirely sure what you were trying to say with-
and I won't presume that you were condoning fire breathing for 13 your olds.
But, I do know that it could certainly seem so to anyone who wanders across your post, say, as the result of finding it with a search engine.
For me, if I see a post which can be interpreted as condoning fire breathing for 13 year olds, then I'm going to post a balancing reply, whether it's on page 4, page 8 or page 1001.
Anyone with knowledge of fire arts, fire breathing and fire safety, knows that the scenario of 13 year olds fire breathing is pretty twisted.
It's not safe, it's not resonsible, and no amount of supervision will make it so.
Written by: Frederick the Reckless
as is anything else added beyond page four of the thread. and yet you replied.
I'm not entirely sure what you were trying to say with-
Written by: Frederick the Reckless
the youngest poi spinner i have met working lit was 9. the youngest fire breather i know of is 13. it all comes down to responsibility, safe practice, and supervision.
and I won't presume that you were condoning fire breathing for 13 your olds.
But, I do know that it could certainly seem so to anyone who wanders across your post, say, as the result of finding it with a search engine.
For me, if I see a post which can be interpreted as condoning fire breathing for 13 year olds, then I'm going to post a balancing reply, whether it's on page 4, page 8 or page 1001.
Anyone with knowledge of fire arts, fire breathing and fire safety, knows that the scenario of 13 year olds fire breathing is pretty twisted.
It's not safe, it's not resonsible, and no amount of supervision will make it so.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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