Forums > Social Discussion > can you have happyness without suffereing?
Login/Join to Participateeye shifter
321 posts
Location: between my headphones
321 posts
Location: between my headphones
Posted:
just thinking out loud. what do you guys think.
just thinking out loud. what do you guys think.
If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
i think so
but not forever
coz there would be no point then
i think so
but not forever
coz there would be no point then
Love is the law.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
I think so as well...
Ado-p, what is wrong with having happiness forever? I don't understand the no point part.
Why does suffering have to be involved? I assume you mean your own personal suffering and not suffering of the world?
I think so as well...
Ado-p, what is wrong with having happiness forever? I don't understand the no point part.
Why does suffering have to be involved? I assume you mean your own personal suffering and not suffering of the world?
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
all things being created equal
i think happiness wouldnt be anything without its opposite
and wouldnt make any sense without knowing what it is.
all things being created equal
i think happiness wouldnt be anything without its opposite
and wouldnt make any sense without knowing what it is.
Love is the law.
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
Without suffering, there would be no basis on which to judge your happiness on. Your life would be one long eternal blahhhhhhhhhh.
Much like how one wouldn't see the beauty in life if not for death.
Without suffering, there would be no basis on which to judge your happiness on. Your life would be one long eternal blahhhhhhhhhh.
Much like how one wouldn't see the beauty in life if not for death.
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
That brings up the question of what the opposite of happiness is, ado-p. I guess I had assumed it was sadness.
Looking up happiness in a thesarus, I can see that the opposite is unhappiness. If I look that up in the thesarus, I see the adjetives are MISERY, woe, wretchedness, or SADNESS, blues, dejection, depression, (the) dismals, dumps, gloom, heavyheartedness, melancholy, mournfulness
Suffering is not included there anywhere. hmmm...
That brings up the question of what the opposite of happiness is, ado-p. I guess I had assumed it was sadness.
Looking up happiness in a thesarus, I can see that the opposite is unhappiness. If I look that up in the thesarus, I see the adjetives are MISERY, woe, wretchedness, or SADNESS, blues, dejection, depression, (the) dismals, dumps, gloom, heavyheartedness, melancholy, mournfulness
Suffering is not included there anywhere. hmmm...
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
can you be sad and not suffer?
can you be sad and not suffer?
Love is the law.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
I guess that depends on your definition of suffer. To me, yes, you can.
From m-w.com
I can be sad and not feel any of those things. I can be sad that it is raining. Does that mean I'm suffering in any way? Not to me. I wasn't planning on doing anything outside tonight anyways. I can also be sad that so-and-so did not pay me a compliment on my new sweater. Does that mean I'm suffering because of it? Nope. I quite like my new sweater.
I hope I'm not coming across as a dense person, I just think the two don't have to go hand in hand, although I can see how some people think they might.
Written by: ado-p
can you be sad and not suffer?
I guess that depends on your definition of suffer. To me, yes, you can.
From m-w.com
Written by:
One entry found for suffer .
1 a : to submit to or be forced to endureb : to feel keenly : labor under
2 : UNDERGO, EXPERIENCE
3 : to put up with especially as inevitable or unavoidable
4 : to allow especially by reason of indifference
intransitive senses
1 : to endure death, pain, or distress
2 : to sustain loss or damage
3 : to be subject to disability or handicap
I can be sad and not feel any of those things. I can be sad that it is raining. Does that mean I'm suffering in any way? Not to me. I wasn't planning on doing anything outside tonight anyways. I can also be sad that so-and-so did not pay me a compliment on my new sweater. Does that mean I'm suffering because of it? Nope. I quite like my new sweater.
I hope I'm not coming across as a dense person, I just think the two don't have to go hand in hand, although I can see how some people think they might.
eye shifter
321 posts
Location: between my headphones
321 posts
Location: between my headphones
Posted:
oh come on guys...can you have one thing without its opposite.
oh come on guys...can you have one thing without its opposite.
If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.
eye shifter
321 posts
Location: between my headphones
321 posts
Location: between my headphones
Posted:
you knwo what disregaurd happyness and sad...
can you have right without wrong.
you knwo what disregaurd happyness and sad...
can you have right without wrong.
If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
Thats a fair point Spritie
Can i change sadness to MISERY?
Thats a fair point Spritie
Can i change sadness to MISERY?
Love is the law.
eye shifter
321 posts
Location: between my headphones
321 posts
Location: between my headphones
Posted:
can you have more that one right view one the same general topic (or wrong view)?
triple post!!
can you have more that one right view one the same general topic (or wrong view)?
triple post!!
If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
its ok brain, besides you started it
here is a hug for spritie to ensure the tone of my posts are recieved as sent.
i tend to take a long time to organise me thoughts, so when i see an arguement about sematics i just leap in with wanton abandon
its ok brain, besides you started it
here is a hug for spritie to ensure the tone of my posts are recieved as sent.
i tend to take a long time to organise me thoughts, so when i see an arguement about sematics i just leap in with wanton abandon
Love is the law.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
no worries, ado-p. I understood what you were saying, and was just trying to formulate my own thoughts as well, so bouncing things off you too. You were questioning in that good, thoughtful way.
no worries, ado-p. I understood what you were saying, and was just trying to formulate my own thoughts as well, so bouncing things off you too. You were questioning in that good, thoughtful way.
eating apples with chopsticks can be rather difficult
167 posts
Location: Perth, Western Australia
167 posts
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted:
i rekon if you were never sad (depressed, bad things happening, etc)... you couldnt, you wouldnt, be able to apreciate the better things in life. If you dont know what sad is how can you know what happy is?
i rekon if you were never sad (depressed, bad things happening, etc)... you couldnt, you wouldnt, be able to apreciate the better things in life. If you dont know what sad is how can you know what happy is?
BRONZE Member
chemical attraction
1,097 posts
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England
chemical attraction
1,097 posts
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England
Posted:
even if you are generally happy you always have points where you become sad about something totally unrelated to your happiness.
Written by: funky_hats
i rekon if you were never sad (depressed, bad things happening, etc)... you couldnt, you wouldnt, be able to apreciate the better things in life. If you dont know what sad is how can you know what happy is?
even if you are generally happy you always have points where you become sad about something totally unrelated to your happiness.
addict
645 posts
Location: wishing to be in Rio
645 posts
Location: wishing to be in Rio
Posted:
This post reminds me of something CS Lewis once said about love, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he said:
Love and suffering are part and parcel of the same deal. Suffering is the price you pay for the blissful happiness you experience when you are in love, because you know that you will sometimes be separated from your loved one - by distance, illness or even death. But only when you suffer so deeply, can you truly appreciate joy.
(I think that was in a book he wrote called 'waiting for joy')
I totally agree - the ups and downs are the spice of life - how dull if we just stayed in one state of emotion. Happiness forever? I don't think we would be able to recognise what happiness was without the knowledge of misery.
Furthermore, I think trials and tribulations help us develop as people - think on the difference between a spoilt child who always gets what it wants, and one who has to do without. Suffering helps us develop sensitivity to others, selflessness, generosity, patience... all such things that will eventually lead to a happy soul
NB: I dont think the discussion here is so much about terminology - yes there is abviously a difference between sadness, misery and suffering, but they go fairly hand in hand. Contrary to a previous post, I would suggest that whenever you are sad, that you do indeed suffer in one sense of the word, because you must put up with the feeling of sadness.
And that is still suffering.
This post reminds me of something CS Lewis once said about love, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he said:
Love and suffering are part and parcel of the same deal. Suffering is the price you pay for the blissful happiness you experience when you are in love, because you know that you will sometimes be separated from your loved one - by distance, illness or even death. But only when you suffer so deeply, can you truly appreciate joy.
(I think that was in a book he wrote called 'waiting for joy')
I totally agree - the ups and downs are the spice of life - how dull if we just stayed in one state of emotion. Happiness forever? I don't think we would be able to recognise what happiness was without the knowledge of misery.
Furthermore, I think trials and tribulations help us develop as people - think on the difference between a spoilt child who always gets what it wants, and one who has to do without. Suffering helps us develop sensitivity to others, selflessness, generosity, patience... all such things that will eventually lead to a happy soul
NB: I dont think the discussion here is so much about terminology - yes there is abviously a difference between sadness, misery and suffering, but they go fairly hand in hand. Contrary to a previous post, I would suggest that whenever you are sad, that you do indeed suffer in one sense of the word, because you must put up with the feeling of sadness.
And that is still suffering. there's nothing quite as fulfilling as a tasty airwrap
if you're full of sh!t, at least you're fertile
"we are all flowers growing in God's garden... and that is why he spreads the sh!t around" - David Byrne
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
if the sun shone all the time we would live in a vast desert
if the sun shone all the time we would live in a vast desert
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
Of course you can. If you say you can't then you've fallen into the excluded middle fallacy - that there is only happy or sad and so without sad you've got nothing to compare happiness to. This is obviously wrong - there's a whole spectrum of being normal in the middle and you can compare being happy to being neutral without ever having been sad.
Of course you can. If you say you can't then you've fallen into the excluded middle fallacy - that there is only happy or sad and so without sad you've got nothing to compare happiness to. This is obviously wrong - there's a whole spectrum of being normal in the middle and you can compare being happy to being neutral without ever having been sad.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
So whats the opposite of a neutral emotional state then?
So whats the opposite of a neutral emotional state then?
Love is the law.
BRONZE Member
old hand
863 posts
Location: Berlin, Germany
old hand
863 posts
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posted:
maybe all emotions at once total confusion???
maybe all emotions at once total confusion???
What is psychology?- Looking for a black cat in a dark room. What is psychoanalysis? Psychoanalysis is looking for a black cat in a dark room -- in which there is no cat -- but finding one anyway.
BRONZE Member
2,530 posts
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
2,530 posts
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posted:
IMO, i think that throughout life, life has it's ups, and it's down, so that when someone dies, he or she hasn't had any more fun or sadness than anyone else.
(this part taken from an onstage act that seems to fit in here)
eg: you fall in love, you have certain happiness for however long, then the relationship ends, and it levels out in about a week
IMO, i think that throughout life, life has it's ups, and it's down, so that when someone dies, he or she hasn't had any more fun or sadness than anyone else.
(this part taken from an onstage act that seems to fit in here)
eg: you fall in love, you have certain happiness for however long, then the relationship ends, and it levels out in about a week
We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams;
We are the movers and shakers of the world for ever, it seems.
Hop's Kitten Jester.
1,803 posts
Location: Wonderland igloo, Vic, Australia
1,803 posts
Location: Wonderland igloo, Vic, Australia
Posted:
I dont think so, well at least not for me and a few other people i know. Everyone is different i guess. But i know for every moment of happiness, double the suffering comes. I dont get it. But i found out a while ago, the more positive you think, the better you're going to be. It sounds liek a load of bull...but its not. Then something happened and i stopped thinking happy, so, things got worse...
I dont think so, well at least not for me and a few other people i know. Everyone is different i guess. But i know for every moment of happiness, double the suffering comes. I dont get it. But i found out a while ago, the more positive you think, the better you're going to be. It sounds liek a load of bull...but its not. Then something happened and i stopped thinking happy, so, things got worse...
.:Pink Exocutioner:.
I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct...
Loving you from the deepest part of my loins.
GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
Levels out in about a week? Hmm I don't know about that, haha. I used tobe a very disturbed individual, depressive, pessemistic, etc. Then I started looking into religions and philosophy and studying, and I became... content. Not exactly happy all the time, but the bad things didn't bother me so much. Love is the most powerful of all the feelings we have though, so of course complications there broke that balance for me for a while... grrr... but I am still recovering and beginning mypractices again so things are looking better.
Pain and happiness are intertwined like loverse. Two halves of the whole. I wrote a poem a long time ago when I was stuck on this girl who stolemy heart... seemed applicable...
Life is as a rose,
to enjoy its beauty up close invites a prick,
but from the pain rises red more devine.
Even lifes most painful moments serve to color lifes best.
And when you lose in life, don't lose the lesson. - The Dhalli Llama
Hey, hey, hey, hey, smoke weed every day. - additive daily affirmation from Dave Chapell
- Sorry... I watch too much TV.
Levels out in about a week? Hmm I don't know about that, haha. I used tobe a very disturbed individual, depressive, pessemistic, etc. Then I started looking into religions and philosophy and studying, and I became... content. Not exactly happy all the time, but the bad things didn't bother me so much. Love is the most powerful of all the feelings we have though, so of course complications there broke that balance for me for a while... grrr... but I am still recovering and beginning mypractices again so things are looking better.
Pain and happiness are intertwined like loverse. Two halves of the whole. I wrote a poem a long time ago when I was stuck on this girl who stolemy heart... seemed applicable...
Life is as a rose,
to enjoy its beauty up close invites a prick,
but from the pain rises red more devine.
Even lifes most painful moments serve to color lifes best.
And when you lose in life, don't lose the lesson. - The Dhalli Llama
Hey, hey, hey, hey, smoke weed every day. - additive daily affirmation from Dave Chapell
- Sorry... I watch too much TV.
newbie
12 posts
12 posts
Posted:
are you sayng that everyone has the same amount of ups and downs or that everyone has the same ratio of ups and downs. that is, someone who goes through life neutral to everything is like the same as someone who has vast amounts of pain and joy. yeah i like that. i guess you just have to dicide how much pain your willing to withstand for the joy.
Written by: Havokist
IMO, i think that throughout life, life has it's ups, and it's down, so that when someone dies, he or she hasn't had any more fun or sadness than anyone else.
are you sayng that everyone has the same amount of ups and downs or that everyone has the same ratio of ups and downs. that is, someone who goes through life neutral to everything is like the same as someone who has vast amounts of pain and joy. yeah i like that. i guess you just have to dicide how much pain your willing to withstand for the joy.
GOLD Member
member
45 posts
Location: Bville, OK, USA
member
45 posts
Location: Bville, OK, USA
Posted:
I was in the Library the other day, looking for books on geodesic domes. I saw a young lady, quite atrractive, sitting with a book in her lap. She was staring off into nothing with the book face up inher lap. Her facial expression kept switching from happy, sad, anxious, joyfull... It was rather interesting, so I asked her what she was thinking about. She gave a start and she apparently didn't even notice me standing there watching her. ONce she registered that I had been watching her she smiled and said she just figured out how the whole happy/sad thing works. Her husband had been on an extended buiness trip for about 3 weeks and she was thinking of him. She was remembering happy times, which sparked the sadness of not being with him. This sadness in turn filled her with joy as she realized this meant she indeed did love him, followed by anxiety that she may never see him again if something were to happen, and so on so forth. I thanked her for sharing that with me and offered my blessings.
This made me think about love and happiness in a new way. Would I want love without hate, happiness without sorrow, pleasure without pain? I don't think so, because it is the negative that gives the positive life, and visa versa. In fact, I rather enjoy my pain and sorrow now as I recognize that without love and happiness, I wouldn't be experiencing these feeling as strongly as I do.
I was in the Library the other day, looking for books on geodesic domes. I saw a young lady, quite atrractive, sitting with a book in her lap. She was staring off into nothing with the book face up inher lap. Her facial expression kept switching from happy, sad, anxious, joyfull... It was rather interesting, so I asked her what she was thinking about. She gave a start and she apparently didn't even notice me standing there watching her. ONce she registered that I had been watching her she smiled and said she just figured out how the whole happy/sad thing works. Her husband had been on an extended buiness trip for about 3 weeks and she was thinking of him. She was remembering happy times, which sparked the sadness of not being with him. This sadness in turn filled her with joy as she realized this meant she indeed did love him, followed by anxiety that she may never see him again if something were to happen, and so on so forth. I thanked her for sharing that with me and offered my blessings.
This made me think about love and happiness in a new way. Would I want love without hate, happiness without sorrow, pleasure without pain? I don't think so, because it is the negative that gives the positive life, and visa versa. In fact, I rather enjoy my pain and sorrow now as I recognize that without love and happiness, I wouldn't be experiencing these feeling as strongly as I do.
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