Forums > Help! > We've been shut down...
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140 posts
Location: lost in pink sugar musing
140 posts
Location: lost in pink sugar musing
Posted:
Help Needed!
We have only one formal spin session in Tasmania, Australia - Tuesday nights at Salamanca, and it has just been shut down by the police. Tuesday nights at salamanca has been going on for a full ten years now, with up to 50 spinners comming during the summer months, which is just HUGE for down here.
Last night the police arrived ten minutes after we had first lit up, and told us the security guard patrolling the place (parliament lawns) had made an official complaint and we were no longer allowed on the lawn, full stop. We asked about other public places around Salamanca and were told something about the governments public indemnity insurance, and we would be stopped on sight, any where that's not a private property.
So, help! this can't happen, it will ruin our entire scene down here.
Has this happened to anyone before? What was done? What can be done? Will a petition work? Any info at all on related matters, similar happenings or ideas on what we can do would be really, really appreciated.
Thanks heaps
Help Needed!
We have only one formal spin session in Tasmania, Australia - Tuesday nights at Salamanca, and it has just been shut down by the police. Tuesday nights at salamanca has been going on for a full ten years now, with up to 50 spinners comming during the summer months, which is just HUGE for down here.
Last night the police arrived ten minutes after we had first lit up, and told us the security guard patrolling the place (parliament lawns) had made an official complaint and we were no longer allowed on the lawn, full stop. We asked about other public places around Salamanca and were told something about the governments public indemnity insurance, and we would be stopped on sight, any where that's not a private property.
So, help! this can't happen, it will ruin our entire scene down here.
Has this happened to anyone before? What was done? What can be done? Will a petition work? Any info at all on related matters, similar happenings or ideas on what we can do would be really, really appreciated.
Thanks heaps
The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all thebad girls live.
False Eyelash
346 posts
Location: New York City
346 posts
Location: New York City
Posted:
Whoa. That's horrible. Funny how the police make things worse sometimes. Maybe you can spin on private property? Maybe you can get advice from an attorney (am I american or what?!).
Whoa. That's horrible. Funny how the police make things worse sometimes. Maybe you can spin on private property? Maybe you can get advice from an attorney (am I american or what?!).
All the freaky people make the beauty of the world.
PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
I know that in America, they can shut you down if you don't meet the local fire laws. They should have a list of requirements to spin fire legally, I know in my local area it is:
Site Plan including dates and times of performances, location, type of event, expected number of persons at event, etc.
Site plan should clearly show required distances based on type of performance including safety zones and a description of how areas will be roped off to keep spectators out of these areas.
Name of event and any contact information relative to event. (i.e. Save the Ocean Benefit, wedding, etc)
List of performers, type of performance (I.e. poi, staff, etc), including performance times and lengths of each performance.
Proof of insurance.
List of liquids and materials used, including amounts and types of containers including MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) if possible.
Safety Plan, including safety personnel names and materials used fire suppression including a minimum 2A10BC fire extinguisher, water, etc. (size of extinguisher relative to amount and types of fuels.
That's what they sent me of what is required, and if it is the same in your country/area, it'll pretty much end any chance for a public spin. Fire insurance in America is $165 per year, more than most spinners would be willing to spend. I suggest you try to find a private property to spin, as it is completely legal on private property (Yet again, at least in America, I assume it is similar or the same).
I know that in America, they can shut you down if you don't meet the local fire laws. They should have a list of requirements to spin fire legally, I know in my local area it is:
Site Plan including dates and times of performances, location, type of event, expected number of persons at event, etc.
Site plan should clearly show required distances based on type of performance including safety zones and a description of how areas will be roped off to keep spectators out of these areas.
Name of event and any contact information relative to event. (i.e. Save the Ocean Benefit, wedding, etc)
List of performers, type of performance (I.e. poi, staff, etc), including performance times and lengths of each performance.
Proof of insurance.
List of liquids and materials used, including amounts and types of containers including MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) if possible.
Safety Plan, including safety personnel names and materials used fire suppression including a minimum 2A10BC fire extinguisher, water, etc. (size of extinguisher relative to amount and types of fuels.
That's what they sent me of what is required, and if it is the same in your country/area, it'll pretty much end any chance for a public spin. Fire insurance in America is $165 per year, more than most spinners would be willing to spend. I suggest you try to find a private property to spin, as it is completely legal on private property (Yet again, at least in America, I assume it is similar or the same).
member
140 posts
Location: lost in pink sugar musing
140 posts
Location: lost in pink sugar musing
Posted:
There arn't really any private properties in Hobart (capital of Tas, Salamanca is like the waterfrontish/pub/littlecafe/touristy part of Hobart) that we could spin on... Its the perfect place really,
it's central, wide open spaces, and lots of people about .
We've never had problems with the police before, they normally like it, they've asked us to spin for them before! But now they have had an official complaint, there taking things most seriously. There's no real catergorie spinning fits into in regards to the laws, we were told once we had to get a fireworks display license....
Help!
What's youre thoughts on a petition???
There arn't really any private properties in Hobart (capital of Tas, Salamanca is like the waterfrontish/pub/littlecafe/touristy part of Hobart) that we could spin on... Its the perfect place really,
it's central, wide open spaces, and lots of people about . We've never had problems with the police before, they normally like it, they've asked us to spin for them before! But now they have had an official complaint, there taking things most seriously. There's no real catergorie spinning fits into in regards to the laws, we were told once we had to get a fireworks display license....
Help!
What's youre thoughts on a petition???
The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all thebad girls live.
SILVER Member
A perth girl gone walkabout...
396 posts
Location: Back home in Perth WA, Australia
A perth girl gone walkabout...
396 posts
Location: Back home in Perth WA, Australia
Posted:
That sounds like a real shame
We've had the same deal with the cops coming and watching us twirl with never a word except encouragement. It's a shame one person can ruin it for so many.
If it is a public place, is there anyway to get anything like a busking license? If only for a short enough time to put on a performance and approach anyone who saw the show and appreciated it to sign your petition?
Or any private properties in the area where you can twirl with the owners permission? Maybe if you approached a few? or tried to get some sort of sponsorship??
Maybe a youth group might be interested in it as a form of getting kids off the street and into a healthy fun positive enviroment.
Or consult someone about the laws surrounding it? Ie, if you twirled, what action would the cops have to take? If they could only move you on, big deal, if they fined you, how much would it be? Could they legally confiscate your gear?
Or better yet, approach the local tv channels, pitching it as a human interest story - and I'm sure they'd love to show some spectacular fire twirling on the tv, and your cutest young things in tears at the though on no more twirling
EDITED_BY: Melza (1075879450)
That sounds like a real shame
We've had the same deal with the cops coming and watching us twirl with never a word except encouragement. It's a shame one person can ruin it for so many.
If it is a public place, is there anyway to get anything like a busking license? If only for a short enough time to put on a performance and approach anyone who saw the show and appreciated it to sign your petition?
Or any private properties in the area where you can twirl with the owners permission? Maybe if you approached a few? or tried to get some sort of sponsorship??
Maybe a youth group might be interested in it as a form of getting kids off the street and into a healthy fun positive enviroment.
Or consult someone about the laws surrounding it? Ie, if you twirled, what action would the cops have to take? If they could only move you on, big deal, if they fined you, how much would it be? Could they legally confiscate your gear?
Or better yet, approach the local tv channels, pitching it as a human interest story - and I'm sure they'd love to show some spectacular fire twirling on the tv, and your cutest young things in tears at the though on no more twirling
EDITED_BY: Melza (1075879450)
I smile because i have no idea whats going on!! 
BRONZE Member
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posted:
what a shame - it would be really sad if it was to die...
..a similar thing happened a year or so again when some Gold Coast (Qld) twirlers started up their twirling meet in Burleigh Beach... it hadn't been going so long but they were told that it couldn't continue for all sorts of reasons (including public liability, safety, noise etc)...
After hundreds of signatures and a very extensive application/report they were allowed to go ahead but have some restrictions (no noise ie drumming after 10pm etc). I don't think they ended up getting insurance to cover the event (as a free gathering there was no money to cover it, and would be near impossible to get it for that type of casual event anyhow..)
I wasn't involved in the process, but if you'd like an email address for someone who was just pm me and I can give it to you.
All the very best - hope it works out ok...
what a shame - it would be really sad if it was to die...
..a similar thing happened a year or so again when some Gold Coast (Qld) twirlers started up their twirling meet in Burleigh Beach... it hadn't been going so long but they were told that it couldn't continue for all sorts of reasons (including public liability, safety, noise etc)...
After hundreds of signatures and a very extensive application/report they were allowed to go ahead but have some restrictions (no noise ie drumming after 10pm etc). I don't think they ended up getting insurance to cover the event (as a free gathering there was no money to cover it, and would be near impossible to get it for that type of casual event anyhow..)
I wasn't involved in the process, but if you'd like an email address for someone who was just pm me and I can give it to you.
All the very best - hope it works out ok...
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
What Millenium is talking about is called a Burn Plan. Most fire authorities require it for large gathering and public displays.
Here in the US private property is not as easy as all that. You have to have written permission in many places from thr property deed holder.
In cities there are still open flame laws with regards to structures which must be followed.
There is legislation for everything.
I agree with Bec in the whole petition thing. I also would suggest that you research the Public Indemnity Policy the police used as a defense. Look into your local Open Flame laws. Do alot of research about the rules and regulations about assembly rights and such. The best way to really set this stuff up is with a fistful of knowledge, and then some!
Good luck to you.
P~
What Millenium is talking about is called a Burn Plan. Most fire authorities require it for large gathering and public displays.
Here in the US private property is not as easy as all that. You have to have written permission in many places from thr property deed holder.
In cities there are still open flame laws with regards to structures which must be followed.
There is legislation for everything.
I agree with Bec in the whole petition thing. I also would suggest that you research the Public Indemnity Policy the police used as a defense. Look into your local Open Flame laws. Do alot of research about the rules and regulations about assembly rights and such. The best way to really set this stuff up is with a fistful of knowledge, and then some!
Good luck to you.
P~
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
member
108 posts
Location: Oakland, CA
108 posts
Location: Oakland, CA
Posted:
you might also try reasoning with the person who filed the complaint. if you can offer THEM assurances of a burn plan and history of the event perhaps you can get them to withdraw their complaint.
you might also try reasoning with the person who filed the complaint. if you can offer THEM assurances of a burn plan and history of the event perhaps you can get them to withdraw their complaint.
BRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
I'm no pro at these things by any means, but from the sound of it they're basically saying you can't spin because the state isn't going to cover you if you burn someone's house down, or someone dies, or whatever. Understandable if you ask me, even if you're way out in a field theres always that crazy possibility.
But you could possibly look into getting professional insurance, from the stuff I was looking at online you'd need to get someone to figure out your "risk level" to figure out just how much coverage you'd actually need... If you've got 50 spinners they could each pitch in a bit every year.
Of course I could be completely wrong... in which case dont pay any attention to me and I'll just go play with these shiny.. oooo.....
I'm no pro at these things by any means, but from the sound of it they're basically saying you can't spin because the state isn't going to cover you if you burn someone's house down, or someone dies, or whatever. Understandable if you ask me, even if you're way out in a field theres always that crazy possibility.
But you could possibly look into getting professional insurance, from the stuff I was looking at online you'd need to get someone to figure out your "risk level" to figure out just how much coverage you'd actually need... If you've got 50 spinners they could each pitch in a bit every year.
Of course I could be completely wrong... in which case dont pay any attention to me and I'll just go play with these shiny.. oooo.....
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,092 posts
Location: In a van, United Kingdom
old hand
1,092 posts
Location: In a van, United Kingdom
Posted:
i pay 100 pounds for my insurance in the uk... and thats just for me...
the police havent really been able to do anything.. and people have logged complaints?
maybe my local police are lazy?
i pay 100 pounds for my insurance in the uk... and thats just for me...
the police havent really been able to do anything.. and people have logged complaints?
maybe my local police are lazy?
passing through, this world still lives.
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
We've just been shut down too
After 3 years in our lovely car park, the council (in their infinite wisdom) have decided we can't stay there. Purely on insurance purposes - if anything happened etc etc - but the annoying thing is you can't argue with them. We are (were) there with their permission and if they want us to move, we have to move. It sucks. But you can't try and argue with them as A) they're right and B) it'll only make them more resistant.
Poo.
We're trying to look at it in a postive way and try and find a better, nicer venue to encourage more people to come - however we never had the number you're talking about.
Have a sympathetic hug from someone who knows just what you're going through 
We've just been shut down too
After 3 years in our lovely car park, the council (in their infinite wisdom) have decided we can't stay there. Purely on insurance purposes - if anything happened etc etc - but the annoying thing is you can't argue with them. We are (were) there with their permission and if they want us to move, we have to move. It sucks. But you can't try and argue with them as A) they're right and B) it'll only make them more resistant.
Poo.
We're trying to look at it in a postive way and try and find a better, nicer venue to encourage more people to come - however we never had the number you're talking about.
Have a sympathetic hug from someone who knows just what you're going through
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
GOLD Member
grasshopper in training
124 posts
Location: Australia
grasshopper in training
124 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Probably would put you back in square one (insurance wise) but alot of the land around is private land but it isn't actually used for anything. When we twirl in parks we are kicked out within the hour, but there is a big patch of land that the ergon owns and the council and police don't seem inclined to bother us (of course if ergon found out we might be in trouble
) Electricity companies, showgounds, sports fields. Maybe if you approached them? Probably not though. 
Also if you organized it more, became a 'proper club' then you may have more luck getting someone to lend you land. Get everyones name down, or even find a way to make it look like a community project ('getting those dirty hippies of the street') Sort of goes against twirling tho, organization and planning. 
Very frustrating, sympathies and hugs!
Probably would put you back in square one (insurance wise) but alot of the land around is private land but it isn't actually used for anything. When we twirl in parks we are kicked out within the hour, but there is a big patch of land that the ergon owns and the council and police don't seem inclined to bother us (of course if ergon found out we might be in trouble
) Electricity companies, showgounds, sports fields. Maybe if you approached them? Probably not though. Also if you organized it more, became a 'proper club' then you may have more luck getting someone to lend you land. Get everyones name down, or even find a way to make it look like a community project ('getting those dirty hippies of the street'
) Sort of goes against twirling tho, organization and planning. Very frustrating, sympathies and hugs!
There is a world made of air, one of earth and one of water.
And there is one made of fire, and all of them fight for supremacy. They are fighting now, in my head.
member
140 posts
Location: lost in pink sugar musing
140 posts
Location: lost in pink sugar musing
Posted:
I like the idea of spinning on company owned land, that's not to bad at all, there's a car park option maybe that i'll have to find more out about...
still have to go into council and find out exactly what were doing wrong..
Poor you Durbs! It's a horrible thing to happen.
The annoying thing is the community is really spreadout out, it's going to take a while for the word to get about.
the other option that i was thinking about it a huge grassy spot called the cenotaph, a war memorial. its away from all crowds and stuff, but its close to town and level ground and we wouldn't be disturbed there.. apart from when the sprinklers flick on at 2 :30 in the morning!
I like the idea of spinning on company owned land, that's not to bad at all, there's a car park option maybe that i'll have to find more out about...
still have to go into council and find out exactly what were doing wrong..
Poor you Durbs! It's a horrible thing to happen.
The annoying thing is the community is really spreadout out, it's going to take a while for the word to get about.
the other option that i was thinking about it a huge grassy spot called the cenotaph, a war memorial. its away from all crowds and stuff, but its close to town and level ground and we wouldn't be disturbed there.. apart from when the sprinklers flick on at 2 :30 in the morning!
The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all thebad girls live.
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
I strongly suggest you write a letter to your local minster for arts, detailing your history and explaining the situation in terms of the risk of losing this very rare and special performance art, that you are providing to the citizens of hobart free of charge. you could even include the fact that many passersby in that area of hobart comment about how nice it is that you are offering this beautiful performance regularly for free...
Best of luck.
Josh
I strongly suggest you write a letter to your local minster for arts, detailing your history and explaining the situation in terms of the risk of losing this very rare and special performance art, that you are providing to the citizens of hobart free of charge. you could even include the fact that many passersby in that area of hobart comment about how nice it is that you are offering this beautiful performance regularly for free...
Best of luck.
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Fire coach - Cirque du Soleil
89 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
89 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
/\ /\
good idea!
/\ /\
good idea!
SILVER Member
discoverer of phat and poigling
292 posts
Location: North London.. England
discoverer of phat and poigling
292 posts
Location: North London.. England
Posted:
great idea josh...
i hope you sort it out..
how about playing on the beach??? the risk of seeting property on fire is reduced greatly and its quieter at night... you have water close by for emergencies .... the only downer is the tide..
keep spinning
great idea josh...
i hope you sort it out..
how about playing on the beach??? the risk of seeting property on fire is reduced greatly and its quieter at night... you have water close by for emergencies .... the only downer is the tide..
keep spinning
its all about the fun fun fun fun and more fun...
SILVER Member
addict
475 posts
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia
addict
475 posts
Location: Van Diemans Land, Australia
Posted:
Good news everyone.
The Hobart spin is back on, i went there on tuesday this week and spun fire for the first time so... hopefully they leave us alone from now on
Good news everyone.
The Hobart spin is back on, i went there on tuesday this week and spun fire for the first time so... hopefully they leave us alone from now on
Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight
enthusiast
224 posts
Location: Oz girl in Eng-land
224 posts
Location: Oz girl in Eng-land
Posted:
Glad to hear it...
Persistence, persistence, persistence....
Glad to hear it...
Persistence, persistence, persistence....
"Be the Bunny"
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