Forums > Technical Discussion > Shortening Chains
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
addict
529 posts
Location: I wish I knew, United Kingdom
addict
529 posts
Location: I wish I knew, United Kingdom
Posted:
Hi all.Just wondering if there was an easy technique for shortening your chains. I've been wrapping my chains (ball chain, if it's of any relevance) around the first two fingers of each hand, but this isn't very comfortable to spin with for any length of time.Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I did try a search and couldn't find anything.J
Hi all.Just wondering if there was an easy technique for shortening your chains. I've been wrapping my chains (ball chain, if it's of any relevance) around the first two fingers of each hand, but this isn't very comfortable to spin with for any length of time.Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I did try a search and couldn't find anything.J
If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
I think Jephyre may mean how to shorten and lengthen the chains while spinning?Such as Sage and her amazing partner with the exotic name thats hiding in my brain somewhere.Jephyre, from what I've seen, most people don't do short chain moves for very long during a burn, maybe they just put up with the discomfort for a short while.Another much trickier possibility is to wrap it once or twice around your hand and then tilt the hand 90 degrees, so that the chain goes between your index and pointing finger. Either that or a pointing and thumb grip in the same style may feel better. Of course, everyone is different so try lots of techniques and see what feels right for you..------------------Charles (AKA INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggle.co.nz/fire/fire.html
I think Jephyre may mean how to shorten and lengthen the chains while spinning?Such as Sage and her amazing partner with the exotic name thats hiding in my brain somewhere.Jephyre, from what I've seen, most people don't do short chain moves for very long during a burn, maybe they just put up with the discomfort for a short while.Another much trickier possibility is to wrap it once or twice around your hand and then tilt the hand 90 degrees, so that the chain goes between your index and pointing finger. Either that or a pointing and thumb grip in the same style may feel better. Of course, everyone is different so try lots of techniques and see what feels right for you..------------------Charles (AKA INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggle.co.nz/fire/fire.html
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NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Actually, that's a great question... I'm curious too. I don't feel comfortable with longer chains wrapped around my fingers to "shorten them up". As Charles said, it's OK for a while. Does anyone else have any better ideas?
Actually, that's a great question... I'm curious too. I don't feel comfortable with longer chains wrapped around my fingers to "shorten them up". As Charles said, it's OK for a while. Does anyone else have any better ideas?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
Ok, being somewhat of a fan of Sage et al., living only 200 hundred miles from them (practically next door in Texas!), I've started including a fair amount of hand wraps and double wraps in my spinning in the last 6 months. In fact, it is essential to my performance nowadays. I'm not saying this is the way they do it, but I suspect it is.From a reverse swing or some sort (usually during the reverse butterfly or the backhand part of the weave), open the hand you want to wrap (can do both at once from reverse butterfly) and push it slightly through the plane of the spin. It will (hopefully) wrap around the fleshy part of your palm (the part you would use for a karate chop) and then between your thumb and forefinger. Catch the chain between said digits and continue with whatever you wanted to do. Let it wrap around twice for a double wrap. It doesn't really take that long to make this look really smooth.If you use anything other than ball chain, this will quickly rip your hands to shreds (especially your forefinger). The larger the gauge ball cahin, the more comfortable. Some of the Tantien chicks (Sage, Baru, etc.) have been known to use what I will call leather sheaths on their chain, which cover the parts that will lay on their hands during wraps.So the main point is, wrap around your whole hand, not just two fingers. Your whole hand can easily take the pressure - especially if you use ball chain.With a few months experience, you can get your chains to vary in length during your spin almost continuously, which looks very mysterious to those who don't know what you are up to.
Ok, being somewhat of a fan of Sage et al., living only 200 hundred miles from them (practically next door in Texas!), I've started including a fair amount of hand wraps and double wraps in my spinning in the last 6 months. In fact, it is essential to my performance nowadays. I'm not saying this is the way they do it, but I suspect it is.From a reverse swing or some sort (usually during the reverse butterfly or the backhand part of the weave), open the hand you want to wrap (can do both at once from reverse butterfly) and push it slightly through the plane of the spin. It will (hopefully) wrap around the fleshy part of your palm (the part you would use for a karate chop) and then between your thumb and forefinger. Catch the chain between said digits and continue with whatever you wanted to do. Let it wrap around twice for a double wrap. It doesn't really take that long to make this look really smooth.If you use anything other than ball chain, this will quickly rip your hands to shreds (especially your forefinger). The larger the gauge ball cahin, the more comfortable. Some of the Tantien chicks (Sage, Baru, etc.) have been known to use what I will call leather sheaths on their chain, which cover the parts that will lay on their hands during wraps.So the main point is, wrap around your whole hand, not just two fingers. Your whole hand can easily take the pressure - especially if you use ball chain.With a few months experience, you can get your chains to vary in length during your spin almost continuously, which looks very mysterious to those who don't know what you are up to.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
I forgot to mention that my grips (made of thick leather) have an extention that covers the region of my forefinger that the chain rests on during a wrap. This has essentially made my handles 'handed' - one is custom made for the right hand, the other for the left (naturally). If you have two left hands, you needn't worry about this last detail
[This message has been edited by vanize (edited 22 February 2002).]
I forgot to mention that my grips (made of thick leather) have an extention that covers the region of my forefinger that the chain rests on during a wrap. This has essentially made my handles 'handed' - one is custom made for the right hand, the other for the left (naturally). If you have two left hands, you needn't worry about this last detail
[This message has been edited by vanize (edited 22 February 2002).] -v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
member
397 posts
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
397 posts
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
Posted:
If you did a weave with normal size chains then did a weave with short chains.... is it considered to be a different move? What about with long chains? Even though it's a still a weave it looks like a different move at different lengths... And if that's so.. Would it mean that by having 4 length settings on your chains you quadtruple the moves you can do? And if in fact it does mean that.... Wouldn't that mean that it's far past normal poi? And if it is far beyond normal poi... does it require a new name? Bah it's prolly just another style
------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"
If you did a weave with normal size chains then did a weave with short chains.... is it considered to be a different move? What about with long chains? Even though it's a still a weave it looks like a different move at different lengths... And if that's so.. Would it mean that by having 4 length settings on your chains you quadtruple the moves you can do? And if in fact it does mean that.... Wouldn't that mean that it's far past normal poi? And if it is far beyond normal poi... does it require a new name? Bah it's prolly just another style
------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!" We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
I'd be inclined to say no, they are all still the weave, but then again, I call the corkscrew "the raver trick" whenever I double wrap it (I still call it the corkscrew when it is single wrapped though). This allows you to bring it in front of your body instead of over your head. I call it that because it seems to be the one trick all ravers spinners (at least around here) learn besides the butterfly.
I'd be inclined to say no, they are all still the weave, but then again, I call the corkscrew "the raver trick" whenever I double wrap it (I still call it the corkscrew when it is single wrapped though). This allows you to bring it in front of your body instead of over your head. I call it that because it seems to be the one trick all ravers spinners (at least around here) learn besides the butterfly.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
member
397 posts
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
397 posts
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
Posted:
Yes but the hand movements for different lengths need to be practiced as it's own move. Just cuz you can do a corkscrew right in front of you with short chains. doesn't mean you can also do a corkscrew with 5 foot chains.Btw now that there seems to be a term for it I guess I use 6 or 7 wrap chains... When your finger and thumb take enough abuse they grow used to it. I don't even use grips anymore I've got my chains linked into loops at the ends.[This message has been edited by Knagi (edited 22 February 2002).]
Yes but the hand movements for different lengths need to be practiced as it's own move. Just cuz you can do a corkscrew right in front of you with short chains. doesn't mean you can also do a corkscrew with 5 foot chains.Btw now that there seems to be a term for it I guess I use 6 or 7 wrap chains... When your finger and thumb take enough abuse they grow used to it. I don't even use grips anymore I've got my chains linked into loops at the ends.[This message has been edited by Knagi (edited 22 February 2002).]
We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Great question Jephyre. I have trouble unwrapping my ballchains cleanly after doing the "buzzsaw / burn the nose" especially when spinning forward. I wrap the chain one and a half times around my fingers (all four above the knuckles) and end up with a bit of chain between my first and second finger, which I use to spin. I'm not happy with this method because it seems difficult to unwrap cleanly. I was just planning to practice until I figured it out, now I will try some of the suggestions in this post. For some reason, everything seems a lot easier in reverse
Great question Jephyre. I have trouble unwrapping my ballchains cleanly after doing the "buzzsaw / burn the nose" especially when spinning forward. I wrap the chain one and a half times around my fingers (all four above the knuckles) and end up with a bit of chain between my first and second finger, which I use to spin. I'm not happy with this method because it seems difficult to unwrap cleanly. I was just planning to practice until I figured it out, now I will try some of the suggestions in this post. For some reason, everything seems a lot easier in reverse
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
addict
529 posts
Location: I wish I knew, United Kingdom
addict
529 posts
Location: I wish I knew, United Kingdom
Posted:
Thanks for all the help - gonna give those methods a try a bit later, when I'm bored of work (about 10 minutes, then).J
Thanks for all the help - gonna give those methods a try a bit later, when I'm bored of work (about 10 minutes, then).J
If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.
SILVER Member
Veteran Member
495 posts
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Veteran Member
495 posts
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posted:
I'd definately say that I wrap around my hand once when spinning, I can do it in either direction. Then if they are still not short enough, I can spin and wrap them aroung my index finger once.. (I got 14" chains..hehe)PLURRÇrÐ
I'd definately say that I wrap around my hand once when spinning, I can do it in either direction. Then if they are still not short enough, I can spin and wrap them aroung my index finger once.. (I got 14" chains..hehe)PLURRÇrÐ
-=ÇrazyRaverÐude=-
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
You guys have probably already got this down, but I finally figured out one way to shorten strings/chains for a smooth transition into the buzzsaw. The forward transition was especially giving me grief. I hope the descriptions make sense.
Reverse buzzsaw: Start by spinning poi backwards in front, on the outside of the arms as per normal. As the poi come down, rotate the wrist slightly outwards, and catch the strings on the side of the hand (karate chop position) ie. between wrist and the start of the little finger.
The strings (anchored by the finger loop/grip) are caught on the back of the hand and will wrap around the to the palm side of the hand. When the strings wrap around to the palm, catch the strings on the index finger (wherever suits, like where the finger joins the palm or behind one the knuckles joints toward the nail) secure the string by pressing your thumb on string. Then as the poi hit the top of the swing, rotate your wrists inwards, as you begin to move the poi in between the arms for the reverse buzzsaw.
Forward buzzsaw: Start by spinning poi forward in front, on the outside of the arms as per normal. Next, extend the arms forward, rotate wrists inward and swing poi in between your arms (ie. poi are now on the inside the arms). Let the poi do a rotation before catching the strings in the karate chop position as the poi swing up, and proceed to the forward buzzsaw. If your strings are too long to swing inside the arms (mine just make it with a stretch) you can turn backwards and catch the poi in the karate chop position as they swing backwards. Alternatively, you can get the karate chop position, one poi at a time, by swinging say the right poi to the left side and vice versa.
You guys have probably already got this down, but I finally figured out one way to shorten strings/chains for a smooth transition into the buzzsaw. The forward transition was especially giving me grief. I hope the descriptions make sense.
Reverse buzzsaw: Start by spinning poi backwards in front, on the outside of the arms as per normal. As the poi come down, rotate the wrist slightly outwards, and catch the strings on the side of the hand (karate chop position) ie. between wrist and the start of the little finger.
The strings (anchored by the finger loop/grip) are caught on the back of the hand and will wrap around the to the palm side of the hand. When the strings wrap around to the palm, catch the strings on the index finger (wherever suits, like where the finger joins the palm or behind one the knuckles joints toward the nail) secure the string by pressing your thumb on string. Then as the poi hit the top of the swing, rotate your wrists inwards, as you begin to move the poi in between the arms for the reverse buzzsaw.
Forward buzzsaw: Start by spinning poi forward in front, on the outside of the arms as per normal. Next, extend the arms forward, rotate wrists inward and swing poi in between your arms (ie. poi are now on the inside the arms). Let the poi do a rotation before catching the strings in the karate chop position as the poi swing up, and proceed to the forward buzzsaw. If your strings are too long to swing inside the arms (mine just make it with a stretch) you can turn backwards and catch the poi in the karate chop position as they swing backwards. Alternatively, you can get the karate chop position, one poi at a time, by swinging say the right poi to the left side and vice versa.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
member
171 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
171 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
I use glowsticks on shoelace loops approx. 110cm long looped round the index and middle finger. I wrap for the buzzsaw from the forwards weave.
while weaving, as your rh crosses your body to the left open your palm and allow the string to wrap around the top half of the palm and catch the string with your thumb, immediately do the same on t'other side until your strings are short enough to go into buzzsaw.
It is a sweet move and feels lovely.
lemme know how you get on!
love
Axis
I use glowsticks on shoelace loops approx. 110cm long looped round the index and middle finger. I wrap for the buzzsaw from the forwards weave.
while weaving, as your rh crosses your body to the left open your palm and allow the string to wrap around the top half of the palm and catch the string with your thumb, immediately do the same on t'other side until your strings are short enough to go into buzzsaw.
It is a sweet move and feels lovely.
lemme know how you get on!
love
Axis
member
31 posts
Location: New York, NY, USA
31 posts
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posted:
i use hand wraps all the time, having learned and been inspired by sage et al with the exotic names, vanize's explanation is exactly what i do,(although i don't know if it's exactly what tantien does, either) it's not uncomfortable anymore even though i use chain and not ball chain (i know a girl who solved the comfort problem with soft leather gloves worn under her holds), for me handwraps are indispensible for the buzzsaw and for between the leg moves....just thought i'd add my two cents, seeing my friends mentioned...thanks for the cool transfer axis!, i just tried it (this board makes me practice in my living room, my poor chairs) and the left hand needs time....practice, practice....
i use hand wraps all the time, having learned and been inspired by sage et al with the exotic names, vanize's explanation is exactly what i do,(although i don't know if it's exactly what tantien does, either) it's not uncomfortable anymore even though i use chain and not ball chain (i know a girl who solved the comfort problem with soft leather gloves worn under her holds), for me handwraps are indispensible for the buzzsaw and for between the leg moves....just thought i'd add my two cents, seeing my friends mentioned...thanks for the cool transfer axis!, i just tried it (this board makes me practice in my living room, my poor chairs) and the left hand needs time....practice, practice....
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
well, sage fans, here it is straight from tantien...wrap it around your palm/finger junction area. like vanize's first guess. or just do whatever works. we all just figured stuff out with practice, and you guys will too. sometimes i even wrap the chain around just a few fingers... start with solid plane control, i tell all my students that over and over, and then you can just slip your fingers into the plane, take what you need, and keep on movin...
well, sage fans, here it is straight from tantien...wrap it around your palm/finger junction area. like vanize's first guess. or just do whatever works. we all just figured stuff out with practice, and you guys will too. sometimes i even wrap the chain around just a few fingers... start with solid plane control, i tell all my students that over and over, and then you can just slip your fingers into the plane, take what you need, and keep on movin...
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Great tips. Anyway, just in case you didn't know. Check this amazing thread to add the tunnel effect. Like do a buzzsaw, then out for a beat of the weave to the left, back to the buzzsaw, then out for a beat of the weave to the right and so on. Have fun
Great tips. Anyway, just in case you didn't know. Check this amazing thread to add the tunnel effect. Like do a buzzsaw, then out for a beat of the weave to the left, back to the buzzsaw, then out for a beat of the weave to the right and so on. Have fun
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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