Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Parallel weaves - often not clean (Basics reloaded)
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85 posts
Location: Bangkok
85 posts
Location: Bangkok
Posted:
I was looking at some videos and the HOP lessons section and discovered that most parallel weaves are not done clean. First I was confronted with this fact when a friend of mine told me that my chasing the sun was not clean and I felt kind of offenden (such a basic move not clean ?!? never !) but then i thought about it and found out what she meant (thank you Britta )
Ok, first the explanation of what I think is a parallel weave: Both poi rotating in the same direction same time on the same side of the body.
Chasing the sun would therefore be a "windmill parallel weave".
Parallel weaves can be done in different forms like tuck turn, low turn, high turn and permanently on one side (chasing the sun permanently in front,bhb or bhh).
The problem is that all those move are much easier to do when a little bit in split-time (examples therefore can be seen in the Free lessons: Chasing the sun - the poi of the right hand is leading; Clearly in the High-turn lesson where the right hand is leading and not same time). This way they do not look clean anymore. They loose their parallel look.
An example for a clean parallel weave would be the Low-turn lesson.
Hope you understand what i mean so far.
The problem now (and the remedy) is that you only can do one beat on one side if it is done a little bit in split time. Only perfectly in same time they can be kept on one side as long as you want.
Therefore an easy way to identify if you do parallel weaves cleanly is to do multiple beats on one side. Eg: chasing the sun (high turn) with 2 beats in front and 2 beats behind the head. Low turn via doing 2 beats in front and 2 behind the back and so on . . . if it does only work for one beat they are not same time - hard but true.
When done properly it really looks better and gives you a better feeling when turning.
Just some basics reloaded
(does anybody understand what i mean?)
I was looking at some videos and the HOP lessons section and discovered that most parallel weaves are not done clean. First I was confronted with this fact when a friend of mine told me that my chasing the sun was not clean and I felt kind of offenden (such a basic move not clean ?!? never !) but then i thought about it and found out what she meant (thank you Britta )
Ok, first the explanation of what I think is a parallel weave: Both poi rotating in the same direction same time on the same side of the body.
Chasing the sun would therefore be a "windmill parallel weave".
Parallel weaves can be done in different forms like tuck turn, low turn, high turn and permanently on one side (chasing the sun permanently in front,bhb or bhh).
The problem is that all those move are much easier to do when a little bit in split-time (examples therefore can be seen in the Free lessons: Chasing the sun - the poi of the right hand is leading; Clearly in the High-turn lesson where the right hand is leading and not same time). This way they do not look clean anymore. They loose their parallel look.
An example for a clean parallel weave would be the Low-turn lesson.
Hope you understand what i mean so far.
The problem now (and the remedy) is that you only can do one beat on one side if it is done a little bit in split time. Only perfectly in same time they can be kept on one side as long as you want.
Therefore an easy way to identify if you do parallel weaves cleanly is to do multiple beats on one side. Eg: chasing the sun (high turn) with 2 beats in front and 2 beats behind the head. Low turn via doing 2 beats in front and 2 behind the back and so on . . . if it does only work for one beat they are not same time - hard but true.
When done properly it really looks better and gives you a better feeling when turning.
Just some basics reloaded
(does anybody understand what i mean?)
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
yo,
know what you mean poibox, thers a really hard one which is a parralel 'skirt' (360 turn over 1 beat) at the high turn, give it a go, you gotta really bounce it to get it right.
T
yo,
know what you mean poibox, thers a really hard one which is a parralel 'skirt' (360 turn over 1 beat) at the high turn, give it a go, you gotta really bounce it to get it right.
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
Ive been doing a bit of parallel stuff recently and think I got it down pretty well. I dont know names for them but I have quite a few variations that I do fluidly.
Ive been doing a bit of parallel stuff recently and think I got it down pretty well. I dont know names for them but I have quite a few variations that I do fluidly.
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
Parallel rocks especially btb waistwraps and turns.
Mine still ain't perfect yet, I realised I needed a bit of work when I was having problems turning and keeping the poi behind my back during the turn. Thanks for the tip, more than 2 beats and its ok?
Parallel rocks especially btb waistwraps and turns.
Mine still ain't perfect yet, I realised I needed a bit of work when I was having problems turning and keeping the poi behind my back during the turn. Thanks for the tip, more than 2 beats and its ok?
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
member
85 posts
Location: Bangkok
85 posts
Location: Bangkok
Posted:
@ +): Nice one . Think i got the same version you described. But still one can do the same "mistake" i described above. Especially with this one one is tempted to lead with one hand (kind of a fast 360 windmill turn) and not to do it parallel.
@ Royal: The problem with Parallel weaves seems to be that they feel fluid but they often are not parallel. Try the Chasing the sun with 2 beats on each side ... does it work?
@ DSS : Should be ok then Once you get the feeling for multiple beats on one side turning is so much more fun (eg bhb - 180 turn - bhb again)
The weaves are everybodies darling and therfore one often overlooks the basic characteristics of parallel weaves. The body is used to: "if longer on one side you have to twist your hands". Parallel constant on one side is the key.
cheers
@ +): Nice one . Think i got the same version you described. But still one can do the same "mistake" i described above. Especially with this one one is tempted to lead with one hand (kind of a fast 360 windmill turn) and not to do it parallel.
@ Royal: The problem with Parallel weaves seems to be that they feel fluid but they often are not parallel. Try the Chasing the sun with 2 beats on each side ... does it work?
@ DSS : Should be ok then Once you get the feeling for multiple beats on one side turning is so much more fun (eg bhb - 180 turn - bhb again)
The weaves are everybodies darling and therfore one often overlooks the basic characteristics of parallel weaves. The body is used to: "if longer on one side you have to twist your hands". Parallel constant on one side is the key.
cheers
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Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Good thoughts. I always get confused by this parallel stuff, but I don’t think “chasing the sun would be a "windmill parallel weave". They are two separate moves. Sure, they are linked because poi are going the same direction. More of a transition if you ask me. I learnt the windmill by speeding up “chasing the sun”.
There are parallel moves like “chase the sun” (high) and “chase the moon” (low) where the poi travel together, parallel, going either to the right or to the left in wall plain. U can also do parallel circles.
But when we weave, we start the “over under” motion, and while poi are still going together to the right (or to the left) and I suppose technically parallel. The way I look at is -moves to the right and moves to the left; parallel for “chase the sun” and under/over for “weaves”.
To improve “chasing the sun” etc check your reflection in a mirror or window. I have found them harder than they look. Try for multiple circles behind the shoulder. Also, if doing them in wall plain, then swivel the torso a bit.
Someone might like to comment on the “parallel fountain”
Hope that makes sense
Good thoughts. I always get confused by this parallel stuff, but I don’t think “chasing the sun would be a "windmill parallel weave". They are two separate moves. Sure, they are linked because poi are going the same direction. More of a transition if you ask me. I learnt the windmill by speeding up “chasing the sun”.
There are parallel moves like “chase the sun” (high) and “chase the moon” (low) where the poi travel together, parallel, going either to the right or to the left in wall plain. U can also do parallel circles.
But when we weave, we start the “over under” motion, and while poi are still going together to the right (or to the left) and I suppose technically parallel. The way I look at is -moves to the right and moves to the left; parallel for “chase the sun” and under/over for “weaves”.
To improve “chasing the sun” etc check your reflection in a mirror or window. I have found them harder than they look. Try for multiple circles behind the shoulder. Also, if doing them in wall plain, then swivel the torso a bit.
Someone might like to comment on the “parallel fountain”
Hope that makes sense
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
What is parallel fountain? Is it:
Right on right btb/left on left in front
Right on right in front/left on left btb
Left on left behind shoulder/right on right high in front
Left on left high in front/right on right behind shoulder
Basically a 4 beat pattern going around the body while alternating front and back. Its a bad description but is that the fountain? If not, what is?
What is parallel fountain? Is it:
Right on right btb/left on left in front
Right on right in front/left on left btb
Left on left behind shoulder/right on right high in front
Left on left high in front/right on right behind shoulder
Basically a 4 beat pattern going around the body while alternating front and back. Its a bad description but is that the fountain? If not, what is?
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
quote:no comment.
Originally posted by Stone:
Someone might like to comment on the “parallel fountain”
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Lost in the world but loving it :)
119 posts
Location: Maybe Oxford, maybe Brighton ;)
119 posts
Location: Maybe Oxford, maybe Brighton ;)
Posted:
"parallel fountain" sounds like a move only those with liquid wrists could do
"parallel fountain" sounds like a move only those with liquid wrists could do
If fishes were wishes we'd all cast nets
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
quote:I think he's stirring...
Originally posted by coleman:
quote:no comment.
Originally posted by Stone:
Someone might like to comment on the “parallel fountain”
"Moo," said the happy cow.
member
85 posts
Location: Bangkok
85 posts
Location: Bangkok
Posted:
Stone you are my man,
Very good point. I feel understood
One has to differentiate between the beginner figure 8 with both hands together and the much more complicated parallel weave where both hands dont do the over and under movement.
This way you can do your parallel fountain
Stone you are my man,
Very good point. I feel understood
One has to differentiate between the beginner figure 8 with both hands together and the much more complicated parallel weave where both hands dont do the over and under movement.
quote:Right. But you can "weave" parallel without over/under motion, just that it feels strange in the beginning. This is because we are used to automatically do the over/under when doing the left right swinging.
But when we weave, we start the “over under” motion, and while poi are still going together to the right (or to the left) and I suppose technically parallel. The way I look at is -moves to the right and moves to the left; parallel for “chase the sun” and under/over for “weaves”.
This way you can do your parallel fountain
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
poibox is soo right, try doing chase the sun with two beats behind, its ver hard.
on the other hand it actually made me learn windmill and case the sun the other way!!!! (left hand lead) wow!
Thanks guys!
T
poibox is soo right, try doing chase the sun with two beats behind, its ver hard.
on the other hand it actually made me learn windmill and case the sun the other way!!!! (left hand lead) wow!
Thanks guys!
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Lots of interest, so I looked up Michael Kahn’s Poi Spinning book for clarification. Man, it's so simple
Parallel time both poi swing together and reach the bottom and top of their circles at the same time, keeping them perfectly synchronised all the way around ie. same-time.
Split-time the poi take turns to hit the bottom of the circle, and are exactly half a circle apart ie. follow-time and weave etc.
In wall plain, the moves are either done to the right, or to the left, and as most probably know, if u turn around the poi will change from parallel right to parallel left.
What my Parallel Fountain? I think it’s the same move, but it is not a move I practice, so here’s Schatz’s club version:
1. Parallel arm circles to the right.
2. Right-arm-over-circle and left extended-horizontal hand circle.
3. Upper front circles (in parallel, I expect).
4. Left-arm-over-circle and right extended-horizontal hand circle.
5. Parallel arm circles to the right or carry.
Any problems, then direct all enquires cheeky coleman
Btw, and this is not really relevant. But when I went back to check out the regular upper fountain I found I was starting with an under arm, instead of an over arm circle
Lots of interest, so I looked up Michael Kahn’s Poi Spinning book for clarification. Man, it's so simple
Parallel time both poi swing together and reach the bottom and top of their circles at the same time, keeping them perfectly synchronised all the way around ie. same-time.
Split-time the poi take turns to hit the bottom of the circle, and are exactly half a circle apart ie. follow-time and weave etc.
In wall plain, the moves are either done to the right, or to the left, and as most probably know, if u turn around the poi will change from parallel right to parallel left.
What my Parallel Fountain? I think it’s the same move, but it is not a move I practice, so here’s Schatz’s club version:
1. Parallel arm circles to the right.
2. Right-arm-over-circle and left extended-horizontal hand circle.
3. Upper front circles (in parallel, I expect).
4. Left-arm-over-circle and right extended-horizontal hand circle.
5. Parallel arm circles to the right or carry.
Any problems, then direct all enquires cheeky coleman
Btw, and this is not really relevant. But when I went back to check out the regular upper fountain I found I was starting with an under arm, instead of an over arm circle
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
member
85 posts
Location: Bangkok
85 posts
Location: Bangkok
Posted:
What about the one arm stretched out and one normal version (big circle + small circle). They both reach bottom and top of the circles same time, still not what I would consider to be parallel. More a kind of "unidirectional".
The over/under would be "unidirectional" since one hand is circling around the other.
The both hand same level version (my interpretation of parallel) would be synchronous since the circles always have the same diameter...
(Nerd talk: Do you do your parallel weave synchronous or unidirectional )
Btw I like this one:
quote:Think this one is too loose.
Parallel time both poi swing together and reach the bottom and top of their circles at the same time, keeping them perfectly synchronised all the way around ie. same-time.
What about the one arm stretched out and one normal version (big circle + small circle). They both reach bottom and top of the circles same time, still not what I would consider to be parallel. More a kind of "unidirectional".
The over/under would be "unidirectional" since one hand is circling around the other.
The both hand same level version (my interpretation of parallel) would be synchronous since the circles always have the same diameter...
(Nerd talk: Do you do your parallel weave synchronous or unidirectional )
Btw I like this one:
quote:Sounds like a poi commandment
In wall plain, the moves are either done to the right, or to the left, and as most probably know, if u turn around the poi will change from parallel right to parallel left.
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big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
i guess by that definition, most of my parallel stuff is 'unidirectional'.
i hardly ever swing both poi in parallel with the same centre point cos it looks like you're just spinning one poi rather than two in parallel (cool but not my thing).
the only time i've really played with that is with one poi at half length.
full on mixing up of fullarm circles with wrist circles while spinning 'unidirectional' gives a 'one big long poi' effect which i like a lot.
this variation posted by nix? is a lovely example (even though i can't do it properly ).
schatz's straight arm weave type parallel stuff looks great and it all slips rather neatly in with pendula.
any problems with parallel fountains please refer to the gandini clubswinging video
i guess by that definition, most of my parallel stuff is 'unidirectional'.
i hardly ever swing both poi in parallel with the same centre point cos it looks like you're just spinning one poi rather than two in parallel (cool but not my thing).
the only time i've really played with that is with one poi at half length.
full on mixing up of fullarm circles with wrist circles while spinning 'unidirectional' gives a 'one big long poi' effect which i like a lot.
this variation posted by nix? is a lovely example (even though i can't do it properly ).
schatz's straight arm weave type parallel stuff looks great and it all slips rather neatly in with pendula.
any problems with parallel fountains please refer to the gandini clubswinging video
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
member
85 posts
Location: Bangkok
85 posts
Location: Bangkok
Posted:
If you seperate them "unidirectional" you have the "one bigger poi effect". One hand is next to/could grab the chain of the other poi (Example: Left hand at right armpit and right arm stretched out, same time. This way you can weave or "circle constant on one side") Is this what you meant by "schatz's straight arm weave type parallel stuff" ?
But if you seperate them parallel you have two identical circles with different centers (Eg: chasing the sun)
You can combine "unidirectional" and parallel and get a really nice flow/move. Example therefore would be in Morningcoffee at 5:15 - videos explain best
Anybody still with me ???
[ 14. August 2003, 06:57: Message edited by: PoiBox ]
quote:Both poi same center is what I meant with "unidirectional", and it only looks like one poi if you have both hands together.
i guess by that definition, most of my parallel stuff is 'unidirectional'.
i hardly ever swing both poi in parallel with the same centre point cos it looks like you're just spinning one poi rather than two in parallel
If you seperate them "unidirectional" you have the "one bigger poi effect". One hand is next to/could grab the chain of the other poi (Example: Left hand at right armpit and right arm stretched out, same time. This way you can weave or "circle constant on one side") Is this what you meant by "schatz's straight arm weave type parallel stuff" ?
But if you seperate them parallel you have two identical circles with different centers (Eg: chasing the sun)
You can combine "unidirectional" and parallel and get a really nice flow/move. Example therefore would be in Morningcoffee at 5:15 - videos explain best
Anybody still with me ???
[ 14. August 2003, 06:57: Message edited by: PoiBox ]
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Now, I’m bit lost
Anyhow, for more info on parallel moves check the club swing thread in other toys.
Look at jugjimcos' last post (page 3, third from bottom)and take the link to Anna Jilling’s club swinging site. Check out Lesson 12, Exploring Parallel Moves. Gotta go, out of time at library
Help, can't get the link to go directly to jugjimcos reply. Grrrrr.
[ 15. August 2003, 12:48: Message edited by: Stone ]
Now, I’m bit lost
quote:I’m thinking parallel weave for this one.
Both poi same center is what I meant with "unidirectional", and it only looks like one poi if you have both hands together
Anyhow, for more info on parallel moves check the club swing thread in other toys.
Look at jugjimcos' last post (page 3, third from bottom)and take the link to Anna Jilling’s club swinging site. Check out Lesson 12, Exploring Parallel Moves. Gotta go, out of time at library
Help, can't get the link to go directly to jugjimcos reply. Grrrrr.
[ 15. August 2003, 12:48: Message edited by: Stone ]
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
member
21 posts
Location: Bristol England
21 posts
Location: Bristol England
Posted:
i love parralell moves, when i start off with my little routine i love doing non moving tuck turns, carries and then back and front shoulder reels, but to add interset to it i do it at different hights especialy as low to the ground, and some times i do what i call the strut!
it involves doing non moving tuck turns (i.e. you just move your upper body) and with the tuck you put one foot in front of the other like a catwalk model, and do that with every carrie and shoulder reel it's realy cool, and at the end i end up on my knees doing a wind mill!
i love parralell moves, when i start off with my little routine i love doing non moving tuck turns, carries and then back and front shoulder reels, but to add interset to it i do it at different hights especialy as low to the ground, and some times i do what i call the strut!
it involves doing non moving tuck turns (i.e. you just move your upper body) and with the tuck you put one foot in front of the other like a catwalk model, and do that with every carrie and shoulder reel it's realy cool, and at the end i end up on my knees doing a wind mill!
Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven (John Milton)I am the answer to all questions and cause of all problems!
SILVER Member
old hand
717 posts
Location: Bristol, England
old hand
717 posts
Location: Bristol, England
Posted:
Been playing with these and they are a bugger to get clean.
But for a real head twister try to isolate.
So isolated Parallel weave.
Isolating Same time moves I find really hard and always slip back into split time.
***Goes off to practive lots cause he needs it***
Been playing with these and they are a bugger to get clean.
But for a real head twister try to isolate.
So isolated Parallel weave.
Isolating Same time moves I find really hard and always slip back into split time.
***Goes off to practive lots cause he needs it***
"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx
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